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Geek Culture / Crowdfunding platforms, Kickstarter and others, what do you think?

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Mr Game
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Posted: 11th Oct 2013 15:52 Edited at: 11th Oct 2013 16:16
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Hello,

What do you think about crowdfunding platforms like:
1. Kickstarter (only for USA, UK, Canada residents?)
2. Indiegogo
3. Gambitious
4. Companisto (only for German residents?)

plus what is your opinion about selling game via:
Desura, Steam, Humble Bundle, Origin?

any experiance?

thanks
Mr Game



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Van B
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Posted: 11th Oct 2013 16:44
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The question you have to ask yourself, is will people fund my project. And you have to be brutal, take off the rose coloured glasses, get the opinion of people who don't even like you.

It's better to be realistic now, than be disappointed later if the kick-start fails.

Be aware of the market - Kick start and it's contemporaries are a market, you are competing in that market against the things you'd be competing against in the indie market, except rather than good design or gameplay features, it's pies in the sky that people are competing with. Look around, if the other similar kickstart projects look better than yours, develop yours more. Change it until you are confident that it's a solid proposal from start to finish.

These cloud funding systems won't last, as a business model it's incredibly flawed, unprofessional, it's a bloomin gamble at the end of the day and you don't want to gamble your whole basket of eggs. It started out great, then it got abused left and right and a lot of people lost faith. These days I just wouldn't start a project that needed external funding - don't rely on cloud funding, be prepared to work on your project for free, make it a hobby.
Put this way - I wouldn't back a cloud funded project unless I thought they'd make it regardless... and the funding will just make it better. Hope that makes sense.

I am the one who knocks...
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Quik
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Posted: 11th Oct 2013 17:17
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Kickstarter I just love - Indiegogo and etc systems where it just takes your money straight away, not so much.
Hard for me atleast, to be negative about kickstarter - basicly ALL projects i've backed either have already given my "physical rewards" or are coming to a stage where the beta part is coming to a reality.

I dont mind steam, and i guess that's because i grew up with it but mostly, it's because of it's incredibly big library, so i can essentially have every game i have on Steam, which is very comfortable.
I dont like Uplay, Origin, because they either just interfere with Steam, OR they ONLY have their "own games" on there, meaning it's just a annoyance.



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Mr Game
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Posted: 12th Oct 2013 20:15
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Thanks for opinion, I would have some crazy rewards for backers/perks



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Quik
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Posted: 12th Oct 2013 21:25
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Crazy may be awesome - but you gotta be 100% certain that you can carry them out - you are legally obliged to do so - or atleast try your very hardest (and document that you did try your very hardest) to carry them out



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Libervurto
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Posted: 13th Oct 2013 12:01
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If you don't have a proven track record then you are really going to have to bust a gut to get any funding. If I were you I would put it off until you are at least halfway through development and have something solid to show off. Kickstarter is a helping hand to enable you to do things you wouldn't otherwise be able to do, now think about what those things might be and who they are important to. An audience who has never heard of you isn't going to help you quit your job and develop full-time, but if you show them a promising title they might well be willing to help you realize its full potential and give you a chance to implement things that you wouldn't otherwise have been able to afford, such as professional graphics, sound and even a bit of coding help.


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Chris Tate
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Posted: 13th Oct 2013 12:54 Edited at: 13th Oct 2013 12:56
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Same as stated above, get something solid done; preferably a fully working game with real "players" demonstrating its "gameplay"; make it easier for people to make the decision to fund the rest of the development. It is all about the future customer and showing them what they have to look forward to.

Do not focus too much of your time thinking about distribution and funding; there have been many failed funding and distribution attempts to wow the communities with fancy videos, pledge icons and lots of waffle about how wonderful an idea is. Put all the idea and concept art stuff in your devblog and website; what you want on your crowdfunding site is real "game footage". Spend most of your year in the IDE and the model editor then everything else will fall in place; everyone will notice your effort and will want to play, but only after seeing what you see in your mind, which can only be illustrated effectively with a "fully working demo" with real "players" showing evidence of "gameplay".

Unless you are celebrity or successful game developer with a proven track record; you will need solid evidence of potential and reliability.

A school-boy error is to put more energy into funding and distribution than the energy put into creating the game, which makes it more easier for people to distinguish the dreamers from the doers. With some projects that means spending 1000s of hours working on getting that demo working; but what is also important is showing evidence of real "players" actually enjoying the "game"; so people don't have to take your word for it.

Then when it is time for crowd-funding you will have lots of footage to work with when making videos; you can put a great deal in that first 3 second impression when your hard-drive is packed full of "game footage" from your product.

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Quik
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Posted: 13th Oct 2013 13:38
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Quote: "If you don't have a proven track record then you are really going to have to bust a gut to get any funding. If I were you I would put it off until you are at least halfway through development and have something solid to show off."


myes, this is pretty much the only projects I back, unless they have a long history of game creation and through that proove that they know what they're doing.

I backed Necro for example, because it showed gameplay and designs - that made me feel that: These guys know what they want, and I can already see that they CAN do it.



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DBAlex
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Posted: 14th Oct 2013 00:32
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Kickstarter is really good, but these things can still go either way.

You can have a really awesome idea and loads of publicity but still not get the £/$. I suppose it gives you an idea of the reception you would get if the app/game was released commercially.

Although, sometimes projects that fail on Kickstarter are not necessarily bad ideas. People just don't want to/don't think they need to fund them.

Learning DarkGDK, then AppGameKit!

AMD X2 7750, 2GB, 250GB HD, Nvidia 9600GT, XP SP3 & Ubuntu
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Quik
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Posted: 14th Oct 2013 07:12
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ah, but of course, it can go either way, thus you gotta be prepared that the money you throw on people can be well, wasted money.



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Chris Tate
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Posted: 14th Oct 2013 12:52
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What projects are people around here currently funding? Would be nice to see what kind of projects everyone likes; some informal research underway at the moment...

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Van B
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Posted: 14th Oct 2013 13:29
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Crowdfunding relies on enough of the crowd wanting what you have planned. Things like FPSCR will tend to do well because a lot of people want that sort of package and there aren't any products quite like it... Not with the same experience level requirement, that's for sure.
Games as a whole need an alternative system IMO - unless you're a big name like Shaffer who actually has fans and stuff with deep pockets and too much nostalgia in their eyes to see straight.

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Mr Game
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Posted: 14th Oct 2013 13:51 Edited at: 14th Oct 2013 15:31
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Yes, social, media campaings must be done wisely to make backers feeling like part of project they pledge.



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Quik
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Posted: 14th Oct 2013 16:52
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Quote: "Games as a whole need an alternative system IMO - unless you're a big name like Shaffer who actually has fans and stuff with deep pockets and too much nostalgia in their eyes to see straight."

Is that so? I thought so, before - when all we had was evil publishers ; ) I think this will absolutly be healthy for the gaming "industry" as a whole tbh..

currently backing:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tynansylvester/rimworld
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/failbetter/sunless-sea
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1317934609/forsaken-fortress
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2045844095/the-world-of-steam
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/343838885/nekro



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Mr Game
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Posted: 14th Oct 2013 16:55
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Which rewards do You prefer as gamers?
I will prepare some list of possibly rewards soon



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Quik
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Posted: 14th Oct 2013 16:58
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The only ones i'm interested in is really just: Base release, Beta and alpha release
and those are the ones i've taken in all that i've pledged x)



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Van B
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Posted: 14th Oct 2013 17:43
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K, but do you see how difficult it is for most developer to compete with that?

First link there, the lead developer worked on Bioshock Infinite!

That's my whole point. These people are hoping for millions, while the little guy who only needs $10,000 doesn't get a look in. There should be a humble version of cloud funding, for smaller projects that don't need movie-style budgets and are just as interesting and valid as any of those kickstarters. I'm more inclined to support a $20,000 project with $20, than a $2,000,000 project with $20.

I prefer my money to stay in my wallet, if it ventures out of my wallet, it better be to somebody that needs it. I just don't see a lot of space for people like us in that market anymore, that is by no means a good thing for the industry.

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Quik
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Posted: 14th Oct 2013 17:49
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Oh I know - and as i've said before: I'm backing these projects, because I KNOW they can pull it off. The little man with little to nothing to show I wouldnt give a dime, i'm sorry but that's how it is. It's no different than having a publisher - the publisher isnt going to fund something that he or she doesnt think can be finished.
only difference is - less manipulation, more true to heart projects.

But I agree on the notion that... "we need something else for the little guy" or - "indie" guy - potentially.

On the other hand - i'm pretty sure that "Forsaken Fortress" is a bit more towards that - cant find anything on their bio.

and, honestly - as long as you can show that you got something going - and are not just presenting an IDEA, I think it will work much better. Of course i'm not going to back something as ambitious as Camelot Unchained, if I didnt feel they can pull it off - which I do - because of their backround.



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The Zoq2
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Posted: 14th Oct 2013 18:08 Edited at: 14th Oct 2013 18:20
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I have funded these games so far

Castle story -- A voxel based strategy game which I belive is in alpha right now
Limit theory A proceduraly generated space RPG with an infinite world.
AGK -- AppGameKit, you should know what that is.

Both of the games had someting interesting and unique that I wanted to see done wich was what got me interested in them. They also had prototypes to show off which showed both the competense of the developer and that the project was actually serious and was able to do something without the money. Having something working to show off is the most important thing for me when looking at a kickstarter (atleast for agame) since it proves that the developers are serious about it and are able to pull something off. A few pieces of concept art and an idea isn't going to make me back a project.

Both castle story and limit theory are made by 2 previously unknown "teams" LT only has a single developer, but the point being that you absolutley don't have to be famous to succed with a kickstarter, you just have to have a good idea and prototype and show it off in a good way.

As for rewards for games, like quick said, getting access to early versions of the game is always appealing and will make a lot of people throw more money at it. "Selling" the game at a discount from the final price is also a good idea to bring more backers. I also enjoy having soundtracks for my games so offering that as a reward could be a good idea. Overall, I feel that physical rewards are mostly just a pain for both you as a developer and for backers, but giving some people a map of the world for your game as a higher tier might not be a bad idea. Just don't focus to much on the rewards, if have a product that has a lot of potential, people will want to support you, even if the rewards aren't the best.

EDIT:
Looks like some posts slipped in while I was writing this

Quote: "and, honestly - as long as you can show that you got something going - and are not just presenting an IDEA"


Unless the developers can show that they can pull something off, I won't back them. Having a lot of experience or showing something actually working are both ways to do so. Kickstarter is already pretty crowded with idea state game projects which hides the ones that actually have something going.

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
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Libervurto
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Posted: 14th Oct 2013 19:37
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Quote: "There should be a humble version of cloud funding, for smaller projects that don't need movie-style budgets and are just as interesting and valid as any of those kickstarters."

Devs could team up in many ways.
* Several devs could launch a joint campaign so that if one dev fails your money goes to the others.
* Special rewards could be given if you pledge to multiple devs in the same "alliance".
* There could be meta campaigns where a stretch goal for a larger project could help fund a smaller campaign. Similar to humble bundle where paying over the average gets you additional games and earns more cash for all the devs.


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Mr Game
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Posted: 14th Oct 2013 20:36 Edited at: 14th Oct 2013 20:37
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from last seconds: preview in Italy
http://www.spaziogames.it/recensioni_videogiochi/console_pc/15272/insomnia.aspx



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wattywatts
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Posted: 14th Oct 2013 20:36
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I hate steam. If I ever make the mistake of trying to play a steam game while I'm online I have to sit through a <1 gb file before I can play.

http://www.indiedb.com/games/max-vs-mars
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Quik
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Posted: 14th Oct 2013 21:11
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Quote: "I hate steam. If I ever make the mistake of trying to play a steam game while I'm online I have to sit through a <1 gb file before I can play."


It's better to be online all the time in that aspect ^^



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Mr Game
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Posted: 14th Oct 2013 22:19
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OK my friends and foes, what about:
1. Voodoo doll mascot as reward (BTW voodoo doll is one of player weapon)



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29 games
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Posted: 14th Oct 2013 23:35
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I like the idea of Kickstarter and crowd funding in general and I think it\'d be a shame if unknown indie developers were put off because higher profile games / personalities are steeling all the attention. Yeah, the chances of getting the funding are low but it\'s got to be better than trying to get a bank loan. I had a feature published on the Metro website for anyone interested in more of my thoughts on the subject:

http://metro.co.uk/2012/12/23/why-im-backing-kickstarter-readers-feature-3327215/

I\'ve only been pledging to Kickstarter projects since it came to the UK last year but overall I\'ve had positive experiences, with the developers giving frequent updates, access to beta builds and projects coming in on time.

Personally, I think things like t-shirts, mugs and vodoo dolls are just tat that must distract from the main purpose of the project. Too much of this only has a negative influence on me. Concept art and music from the game are acceptable but it\'s never persauded me to pledge more.

I\'ve steered clear of all the high profile projects, I think they\'ll only disapoint, and tend to go for the lower profile, lower pledge level projects.

one of these days I'll come up with a better signature
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