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Work in Progress / ASpace Combat Engine [Download]

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 30th Nov 2003 01:24 Edited at: 13th Dec 2003 05:43


ASpace is a new combat engine i've written over the last couple of nights, Nick and I are thinking about making an Elite game but I thought i'd toy with the idea a bit first before deciding for sure what we are going to do after Transfusion is finished.

I am aiming to support no more than half-a-dozen (six) ships in combat at once for the game, although technically the engine is capable of more.

Which is why I thought i'd put this out to see what framerates you are getting and on what spec machines.

If you do download, please do take a moment to let me know how it is performing on your computer, what your computer is, and how many enemies you had running.

Thankyou.

Website: http://www.bansheestudios.com
Download (6.4mb, broadband limited to 300kb/sec): http://www.bansheestudios.com/ASpace.zip


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
MikeS
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Posted: 30th Nov 2003 01:57
System Specs:

1.8 ghz
8500 Radeon LE
512 DDR ram

Got 24-28 FPS when I had 3 enemies with me.(Was very playable)

Got about 14-18 FPS when I had 15 enemies in with me. But after I nailed one ship with the cyclone, it got uncontrollably slow.(1-4 FPS with plenty of lag)

Nice trails and explosion effects you have going for only a few days work.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
Preston C
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Posted: 30th Nov 2003 02:19
1.3 Ghrz Celeron
Geforce FX 5200 128MB
512MB Ram

I only tried one setting, and thats with 5 enemies. Got about 11-19 FPS. Very nice smoke trails.


Intel Celeron 1.3 Ghrz 512MB Ram NVIDIA GeForceFX 5200 128MB
MikeS
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Posted: 30th Nov 2003 04:45
I tried it out again, with 2 oppenents, and averaged about 40 fps.(46 fps ,once I nailed em all )

Gotta love the stingers though, made me come and play again. I was also studying the ship trials and explosions. Nonetheless, made me come back, so I know you've(Nick & Andy) got a good start.




A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 30th Nov 2003 06:16
downloading...cant wait to play this
3% complete.

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JoelJ
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Posted: 30th Nov 2003 07:16 Edited at: 30th Nov 2003 07:20
53%
ill tell you what i think in a moment
i think its awsome, i didnt get and framerates but it ran like a dream

1.3gHz
512 Ram
one of those video cards (ehe)

=<=Pudgie Wars=>=
Game engine: 20% = Models: 25% = Textures: 1% = Sounds/Music: 0% = www.geocities.com/bigapple_entertainment
ReD_eYe
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Posted: 30th Nov 2003 11:15
didn't run so well for me framerates were in the low 1's even with only 1 enemy, i suspect my graphics card to be the problem
specs:
pentium 4 1.6ghz
256mb ram
geforce 2 Ti


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Do it now!!!
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 30th Nov 2003 13:55
I got 6fps, but it was still playable. Elite was about the same anyway. Nice effects!

Pincho.
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 30th Nov 2003 15:18
Wow thankyou, well that swings my vote, it looks like the next game is Elite then I managed to optimise the combat a little last night to help things along, and the final game will also have display options settings so that should help quit a lot in reducing the overhead of the special effects.

Now to see if I can get planets and landscapes in....


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 30th Nov 2003 16:17
well I have to say...
THIS GAME IS GREAT!
WOW! The explosion I saw after I popped a pod at one of the ships nearly knocked me off my chair! All the effects were incredible! The smoke trails! The little small orange explosions when ur bullet his the hull! I even noticed a small turret at the bottom of the ship that shoots really fast! There are alot of effects that u seem to have put alot of effort into....how long were u making this?

But then....theres the bad part.
The absolutly annoying slowdowns that occur just before your pod hits a hip, just when you are firing and chasing a ship, or just when you are flying around, these slowdowns i'm afraid almost make the game unplayable.
My normal fps is always at a fied rate of 33-36! Then simply and sharply dropws to 0-1! Stays like that for a moment and then returns to 33-36. And this happens as often as every 10-15 seconds....and I dont think its my specs either...

My system specs:
Pentium 4, 2.4 ghz
ATI Radeon 9200 128MB
256 RAM

anything you can do about this issue?

p.s seriously SLICK game man, great work, this is the longest post I have ever written for somebodys elses game!

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 30th Nov 2003 16:24
Never fear Megaton!

The explosion animation is causing some problems in the framerates, the 10 seconds of the limb shattering and consequently whenever the debris is onscreen are the cause of the slowdown. Now I have identified the problem I will be solving it soon so the final game / next demo - wont suffer from this at all


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 30th Nov 2003 16:25

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
thank youuuuuuuu.

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The Darthster
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Posted: 30th Nov 2003 18:08
Athlon xp 2600+, 512mb ram, geforce fx5200, got about 30-40fps with 5 enemy ships, but occasionally went down to 10fps when turning, or watching explosions. It still seemed a bit slow, and the controls need to be smoother in my opinion. Nice explosions and trail effects though! And the sphere mapping on the ship hulls

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Don Malone
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Posted: 30th Nov 2003 20:58
Athlon XP 1800+
256MB Ram GeForce2 400 video card

Five enemies on screen to start. Started at 19 to 21 FPS Dropping to 9 to 14 FPS when a single ship exploded on screen.

Looks very good.

Wasting CPU Cycles since the 286 was a hot machine.
zircher
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 04:53
Fatal error on loading.

Could not load sound at line 2358.

1,000 Mhz AMD Duron 640 megs RAM
GeForce4 MX440 64 megs
SB Live! sound card
--
TAZ
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 07:31 Edited at: 1st Dec 2003 07:33
The sound - added just before the demo was put out - was being loaded in a very inneficient way which I have rectified (I copy/pasted the load sound command for duplicate sounds), I have since cleaned it up with clone sound references.

It's possible this caused the problem although to be honest it is more likely a Dx related issue from a previously loaded program to cause that error. After a restart it will hopefully be fine, if not then the next demo release should fix it as the sound loading is much better (and a lot less rushed) now

I've made a lot of small improvements already based on the feedback here and in general on the various explosion functions, so i'll do a new demo when there's enough new stuff to justify it.

EDIT: It just occured to me, specifying 100 or more ships would cause a sound loading fatal error of that nature too. The program is really only being designed to cope with half a dozen ships, although that version of the engine can support 99 AI entities that includes missiles also... New versions are culled to 50 for speed.


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
las6
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 12:03
I think polylines instead of particles might help a lot to speed up the game. It won't look the same, though.

Must remember to try this when I get home.

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 17:27
Quote: "I think polylines instead of particles might help a lot to speed up the game"


I tried, I wanted them to be like Homeworld: http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=20812&b=1. I couldn't suss it out.

I quite like the particle clouds, but vector lines would be much better and probably longer in length. I can make the particle clouds last a few minutes but with a few ships flying about the slowdown can get quite cronic, so i've ended up with quite short trails. They are the biggest persistant performance hit.


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
las6
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 18:01
I think there was a bug in your memblock code. You were trying to write 3 xyz coordinates at one pass, 5 times. Made absolutely no sense.

I could take a look at it, if I'd get some motivation for coding first... :\

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Van B
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 18:02
Andy,
How about an object that you can trail around after another object without using memblocks or create object?

Make a trail mesh, like maybe 20 square section, then put a bone inbetween each section. You could offset the bones of the trail mesh to suit the trail, and you could texture it with a nice fade - it'll look propper bo .

I recently used a similar technique to make better rotated plain shadows, instead of rotating a plain on the terrain, it plonks a mesh on the ground, each corner is assigned to a bone, the bones are offset onto the ground height, and you have nice shadows that blanket the landscape without resorting to memblocks. I posted an example at LLRGT code snippets.

If you'd like a little demo of the trails idea, just let me know (it'd probably take a day or two though). The last time I did trails in DBC was by using the MAKE OBJECT TRIANGLE command, DBC is plenty fast enough to make 2 triangles and delete 2 triangles per loop - that's what I did with Stoked. I reckon the boned mesh snake thingy is a good alternative for trully fast effects - you could get away with a 20 segment (40 polygon) trail per ship.


Van-B


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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 20:52
I did try that VanB but I came unstuck, the problem I faced was that I was recording the world position of the ships two emmitters every nth interval, but how does that translate into a chain of rotations? As I write this I realise the answer is in =atanfull(), but I am not sure what the second factor of the Y axis would be, the 3 dimensional range or an azimuth of 0?

Particularly I stumbled over another problem aswell, that is recording over time gives trails of uneven length, but a limbed object has joints of equal length, thus forcing me to record by distance which would never look right.

In terms of game code it would be no lighter than the current code, but it would allow the trails to be handled as 1 object. In terms of the DBPro engine this is massively faster, so this got me thinking - what about trying my current particle trails system as limbs rather than different objects?

This might have equally good speed related gains as each trail becomes 1 object and is definately worth a shot as it would allow me to get the length of the trails up to a level at which i'll be happier (one minute plus)


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
Van B
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 23:59
Ahh, but you don't rotate the limbs, you simply offset them to the trail coordinates. You could put the limbs anywhere in 3D space, I'm working on an example, but it would be an .X object that you load and update with a function, specifying the trail object, the source object, and it's 2 limbs you want to use.


Van-B


I laugh in the face of fate!
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 00:06
Aha, I need to play with bone based animations more. I told my brother to throw me a bone, if only he'd listened....


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
Cold Blooded Entertainment
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 00:58 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2003 05:44
Cold Blooded Entertainment
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 01:03 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2003 05:45
iv played the game and it was awsome..
Mattman
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 04:11 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2003 04:11
Cold Blood >>> This is definitly not the place to ask for a banner. This is someone's work in progress. Go here please
http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=13351&b=7
http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=21005&b=2

Beauty, eh? RoooooOoooooKoooooKoooooRoooooOoooooKoooooKooooo!
Cold Blooded Entertainment
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 05:21 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2003 05:46
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!
las6
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 10:30
Tested it with 10 ships and it turned up quite unplayable pretty fast.
1.33Ghz Athlon TB
512Mb DDR
Radeon 9000 Pro (128)

I'd like to have a try with the bone stuff, the only problem is that I know only of milkshape being able to create those models. Now, Milkshape is absolutely horrible program for what I wanted. I simply wanted to create a plain with lots of segments on one dimension, and then set a bone to each line. I really don't want to plot out all the million vertices (and without a proper grid!)
(I tried creating a cylinder too, But apparently it can be created in only one way no matter what window you draw it. Well, you can always rotate it. Now when I tried snapping it to grid, it managed to deform itself.)
Are there any other programs that support the mesh deform in DBpro?

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Van B
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 11:55
I only ever use CharacterFX for boned models, I have had problems with using too many bones, but anything upto 20 bones is fine. If you send me some details about what sort of mesh you want I could make it and send it to you, have you checked out the shadow demo I uploaded at LLRGT Las6? - the mesh from the demo is a 4 poly plain with 5 bones that get offset to the matrice height.


Van-B


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las6
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 14:28
well, I'd need a plain with the max amount of bones you can get in it. Of course, it should have just as many segments. so if 20 is max, that it would be. (actually that would prolly make 19 or 21 quads)

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 12th Dec 2003 21:59
hey
just thought I would check on my fav DBP game.
So uhh..any bug-free demos to be released anytime soon?

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 13th Dec 2003 05:42
Bug free? Never!

I am working on the solar system objects at the moment and when that is done I want to release another demo.

So far all the planets have LOD meshes and textures and i'm currently adding LOD meshes for the space ships (will do LOD textures for them soon) and soon will add some more different ship designs too.

The sun is simply an animated billboard and light source but looks good enough - and I have long period events in place (comets on elliptical orbits).

I have not started on the asteroids yet, that comes soon and will be an interesting challenge because I want a proper 360 degree belt that you can see all round from a distance and then fly into - and not just a field suspended in space like most games.

I also intend to include solar flares (why do no other games feature these they are an almost constant event !?) and then the demo will be about ready.

It is a monster application, and consequently I am having to make high / medium and low quality meshes and textures everytime I do anything new because it is such a power hungry game on full detail.

Currently i'm working out exactly how i'm going to do the scenery when you are flying / driving / walking planetside. I'm not sure how much detail the game will go into yet, I would like some flexibility in being able to enter hotels, bars, shops etc but obviously getting this much modelling done and actually working in one engine is going to take some work.

Just figuring out the fractal scenery is tough enough because I dont want to use matrixes (too poor visual quality). I have a very good .x object terrain mesh system (I think superior to terrains) but the texturing is not yet up to par - I am working to resolve this and the new Geoscape tool gave me an idea on exactly how to proceed earlier (their textures look better than the method I was investigating, and it looks easy enough for me to replicate - and I might even get my version working without the texture set bug in the Geoscape demo ).

So when I can finally roam around planets (if not yet as far as having civilisations on the planet surface) that will probably be demo 3 - however it's going to be a huge download.

The way things are going in terms of media for this project I think the final release might be on DVD ! Currently a ZIP of the directory is almost 30mb and there is more media to add before the next demo but thankfully not all of it will be required (I will only include 1 solar system).

This is the biggest project i've ever attempted and i'm hoping it is the culmination of all the years of work i've put into Terrascape. The new TerraX engine (which you can see in action later today in Transfusion) should make it possible - and if I fail then i'll just make a simpler space ship game and bag the rest of the development for a later project


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
Philip
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Posted: 13th Dec 2003 07:17
Sorry ... you're working on procedural planets ... which are super double tough ... and you expect to release a new demo in the near future?

Brave man!

Philip

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 13th Dec 2003 13:48
yes..I have red most of it on your site as well...it sounds extremly hard, I sure hope you can pull it off

btw, I added your msn to my list...have to ask you something.

good luck with the game!

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 17th Dec 2003 01:58
hey! Wanted to show 2 cool screenies i managed to get




More screenshots and a review here..
http://www.excaver.com/dbg/reviews_Aspace.htm
cant wait for more updates!

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I will finish what I st..Hey! There is a penny on the floor!

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