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Geek Culture / Frequently Asked Questions Site

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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 30th Nov 2003 22:15 Edited at: 3rd Dec 2003 19:05
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Well here's my attempt so far its got a few of the more common questions in but really it needs much more work i'll be happy to update it(daily if necessary) when other questions are asked, if you find a thread which answers a question well then please post it here or email me about it also if you can expand on the answers to existing questions please do tell me.

NOW WITH CONTENTS PAGE
http://redeye.dbpcommunity.com/contents.htm


Direct link:
http://redeye.dbpcommunity.com/faq.htm

no fancy site design, just a load of text


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MikeS
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Posted: 30th Nov 2003 22:45
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heh, I'm winning.

Nice job so far, hopefully it'll grow as more users contribute.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 30th Nov 2003 22:51
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thats the plan


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IanM
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 01:38 Edited at: 1st Dec 2003 01:39
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It's all in a good cause, so I've made this post sticky for now.

Please everyone, contribute if you can.

@ReD_eYe, can you move the 'Helpful Links' heading right a bit? They make it slightly harder to see the questions headings.
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Dave J
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 01:53
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Agreed, if you indented the 'Helpful Links' then you can easily scan down through the questions without seeing the same word between each question.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Don Malone
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 04:29 Edited at: 1st Dec 2003 04:32
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Impressive start ReD_eYe.


Could I make a request please.

Could you make the Questions a contrasting color. Maybe red or something else that would catch a newbies eyes.

A couple of links I noticed this weekend were

1) DarkBASIC / Getting fed-up with speed problems in DBClassic
http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=20900&b=10

and

2) DarkBASIC / Calculating a curve of a falling object
http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=20781&b=10

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MikeS
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 04:46
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@ReD_eYe (here's another thing to update)

Should I buy DarkBasic or DarkBasic Pro?

Personally, I'd go with DarkbasicPro(DBP). You may have heard reviews of it being buggy, but those were nearly a year ago. Things have changed, and it's stable on almost any system. Although it's a little more expensive, you can usually find good deals on amazon, or take advantage of the recent price cut from the TGC homepage.

DBP offers more

-Speed
-Commands
-Flexibility
-Memblocks
-Multiplayer commands
-And still gets updated, while DB doesn't.

DarkBasic Professional, is not necessarily harder than regular DBC. In fact, it's almost the same thing, just a more advanced version. It offers more which can be daunting, but since it's a BASIC language, it can be picked up easily in weeks/months.

Take my advice and buy DBP if you have the cash, if not, download the trial and test it out.(Plus that'll give ya some time to save )

A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
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Ian T
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 09:43
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Very noble, red_eye !

Does anyone have Magellan's tutorials still around? He wrote some fantastic DarkBASIC classic tutorials on a lot of different subjects... I had them before I lost my hd a while back, but I really haven't seen them recently. I hope they're not lost! They'd be a big addition to an FAQ's files.

Just a note-- I'd put in a section on 'What isn't working in DBP', seeing as it'll still be probaly over a month until we see U6 final released. Right now the only definate problems I can think of are-

-3ds files rarely load properly
-MD2 files do not animate properly (see my post in the Bug Reports forum)
-There's something else very obvious but it's 2:35 in the morning and I can't think of it

I'll search in the bug reports forum later for more definate problems and report them back here.

Also, I'd add a little note explaining why the current IDE isn't being updated .

(Psst, link to my awful texture site... or not )

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 10:15
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Quote: "Very noble, red_eye !"

hehe, it was more a case of boredom, but i'm gonna stick with it, my web design does suck and i'll make the changes suggested, and highlight each question.
Thanks for the extra stuff dboy, yellow and mouse


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IanM
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 13:49
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I sent you a couple of pieces last night, but if there's anything else that you can think of that I can answer for you just ask
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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 18:01 Edited at: 1st Dec 2003 19:12
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Thanks IanM!
Just made a whole load of additions, and changed the format abit, tell me what you like/dislike.
thanks


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Ian T
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 20:48
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Okay, a few little things now that I've gotten some sleep--

-DB Classic Enhanced also has Memblocks and Multiplayer. Might want to explain that in the 'what to buy' part.

-'How do I put collision into my game?' is a VERY frequently asked question. Until recently there were no save-all answers... but now we have the Nucluerglory (sp, I'm still woozy) DLL and Kensupen's excellent code. A link to both of them would go a long way towards helping newbies.


-How many polygons can I use in my game?

This greatly varies, depending on the power of the average computer you want your game to be made for, and what type of game you are making. Generally speaking, try to use low amounts; if a bullet, for example, numbers in the hundreds, that's far too much. As a general example, modern games ususally use characters thousands of polygons in detail-- but the importance of trimming the amount you use down as much as possible has not changed. To find out how many polygons your game is currently rendering, call: 'Statistic(1)'.

-What is Antialiasing?

Antialiasing is a method used to remove the jagged/stair-step effect that often appears in games known as 'aliasing'. Antialiasing essentialy mixes the pixel shades near edges, making a far more realistic effect. Antialiasing is generally used by modern 3d graphics cards (but this can only effect programs that use 3d hardware).

-What is anisotropic filtering?

Anisotropic filtering, without going into much detail, smooths the breaks between texture detail levels. With it turned off, you will often notice sharp differences between texture levels of detail on things like metal grilling or roads. With it on, the difference will be smoothed and, ideally, you won't notice the different levels of detail at all.

-How can I change my game's levels of mipmapping, antialiasing and anisotropic filtering levels?

To change these settings on your video card: right-click on your desktop, select 'properties', choose the 'settings' tab, then click 'advanced'. Your video card's setting pannels should be in this area.

-Where can I read more about 3d terminology?

http://www.avsim.com/fsbench/glossary.htm is a great glossary of 3d terms.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 21:03
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thanks mouse, i'll stick that on the site asap


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Ian T
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 21:09
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-What are some examples of good games made in DarkBASIC(Professional)?

(Links to Star Wraith 3, RiftSpace, Eternal Destiny, Axes of Evil, Banshee Studios, Becher Race, the Mordheim thread, Indi's DT [there still a website for it?], other good-looking games go here)

-I'm a good coder, but I need someone to make 3d models for my game.

You're far more likely to get people to make 3d and 2d art for your game if you have something to show for your work already. Make do with primitives (cubes, spheres) to show off your game's mechanics and you might get some offers from artists.

-I'm making a first-person shooter and I don't know what to do for my level!

BSP is an option. BSP maps are supported with automatic collision; however, this is by far not the best method to use. You can use an .x object with collision, but unlike BSP maps, with an .x object, all of your level will be rendered at once, slowing your program down considerably.

Upgrade 6 to the rescue. It will contain a portal system for seperating objects into rendering groups, so you can make your own levels out of .x objects with BSP-like rendering, minimalizng the polygons being rendered for your level at any given time.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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Ian T
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 21:09
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I'll dig up all those links now

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

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MikeS
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 21:14
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I think Mouse is winning the "who can contribute most" section.

Might wanna add a credits section to the bottom, of all contributors and yourself of course.

Also, a table of contents might come in handy.



Good looking games you say? Don't forget
http://www.dimsdale-kreozot.com/ 's Tito.

A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 21:23
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yup, mouse is winning now, unfortunately i haven't got it on the site yet. credits are already right at the bottom, mouse's name will be there in the next hour or so
when theres abit more there, i'll make a separate page with direct links to each question. Won't be able to do this until mouse runs out of ways to help though


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Mattman
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 00:16
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You get my link up yet?

Beauty, eh? RoooooOoooooKoooooKoooooRoooooOoooooKoooooKooooo!
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Cold Blooded Entertainment
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 05:28
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can some 1 here plz make me a banner...thanx... if some 1 wants to make me a banner tell me here or email me at Vexx_03@hotmail.com ..thanx again..
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Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 05:32
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It's this kind of behavior that gives newbies a bad name. Hijacking a forum thread about contributing to an FAQ just to try to get someone to make you a forum banner for no good reason? More of those are the last thing this forum needs anyways.

Please exersize thought before keyboard ...

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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AlecM
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 05:47
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Can you add something that basically says something like "If your new to game development don't do anything even remotly big. You will fail." ?

[P4 2.8C @ 3.03 with an 866mhz FSB:: MSI Neo-2LS running PAT:: 1gb Mushkin PC-3500 DDR High Perf level 2@ 2,2,2 :: ATI Radeon9800ProAIW :: 120Gb SeagateBarracuda 7,200RPM SATA HD :: Antec Plus1080AMG]
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Don Malone
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 05:49
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ReD_eYe

I think that helps alot with the contrasting color.

I hate to mention a little spelling error creeped in at question 9, on the link.

Also, I do not deserve a credit because I have not actually given anything to the FAQ. The people who best answered the questions are far more deserving than I am. I am just a new user and will gain graetly from your hard work.

Thanks
Don

Wasting CPU Cycles since the 286 was a hot machine.
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Don Malone
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 06:12
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Quote: "-How many polygons can I use in my game?

What is Antialiasing?

What is anisotropic filtering?

How can I change my game's levels of mipmapping, antialiasing and anisotropic filtering levels?

Where can I read more about 3d terminology?"


These are good questions but do new users ask these alot? I mean no offense, but I think the questions need to focus more on what Dark Basic does. Topics like Movement, Animation, Enviroments using meshes and or matrix (what is the plural of matrix?)

It would be very easy to put so much information on the page it would become difficult to use for the newcomer and retuen to the same situation again. The hardest part will be focus on what the newcomer really needs and not what he thinks he needs.

I hope I did not offend anyone because that is not what I want to do. I am just thinking about what I need as a new user, though I have been using basic since qbASIC and owned QuickBasic 4.5 (though I never did more than play with it) through Visual Basic 5.

I need the basics. For the record, I never even thought about trying to program the next Half-Counter-Doomed-Quake or an RPG. I know how difficult they can be but by reading the more advanced users forum posts; I like to think I am learning.

I want to move a box across a flat floor.
I want to make a ball bounce.
I want to eventually draw a skysphere.
I want to create a level that does not look like a two year old did it.
I want to learn how to do decent textures.
I want to learn a little at a time and eventually write the game I want.

Thanks for reading my rambling.

Wasting CPU Cycles since the 286 was a hot machine.
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Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 06:13 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2003 06:13
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On the topic of spelling, I have to mention the apostrophes. The correct use of apostrophes is either indicating posession, or indicating (a) missing letter(s):

She'll indicates a missing "wi"

That's indicates a missing "i"

John's indicates posession (John's bike)

The Dark Lord's indicates posession (The Dark Lord's One Ring)

Potato's as in "We got a lot of potato's" is improper.

Truck's as in "I like ramming sedans with my truck's" is improper.

If an apostrophe is used in simple plural form, it becomes completely pointless-- there is no way to tell what it indicates and might as well not be used at all.

This is a very common mistake but it is by no means the right form of English in any country. If you're seething in indignation right now, check your dictionary, it sides with me, I guarantee it.


As a closing point, it's not a terribly big deal, but I had to put a solid argument behind it or loads of people would be jumping on me.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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Don Malone
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 06:45
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Lord knows I am lousy with correct usage.

I try but get in a hurry and don't worry enough to pay the proper attention.

Wasting CPU Cycles since the 286 was a hot machine.
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Neophyte
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 07:36
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I wonder if there is any chance that this can be moved to the newcomer's corner as it is kinda of an unlikely place to find an FAQ in the general section.

That being said, I think I'll pitch in here with some words about shaders since there seems to be a lot of questions about them recently.





SHADERS

A common reference to programs that run on a graphic card's Graphics Processing Unit. There are two sub-catagories of shaders known as Vertex and Fragment Shaders.

Note: There are also shaders that do not run solely on GPUs and these are known as Software Shaders. They run on your system's Central Processing Unit instead of your GPU. Consequently, they are generally far slower than Shaders that run on GPUs, but have the added ability of flexiablity that a less constrained CPU can muster.

DarkBasic Professional does not utilize Software Shaders as of Upgrade 5 so any reference you see here to shaders will most likely mean the Hardware variety.

VERTEX SHADERS

Vertex shaders are programs that run on your GPU that effect the geometry of what they are applied to. A good example of a vertex shader is the popular wave shader that moves a mesh up and down simulating waves. Vertex shaders can only modify existing geometry that is sent to the GPU. They can not create new geometry by adding or subtracting verticies. Since Vertex Shaders can only operate on the GPU of a graphics card, all geometry that is not sent to the graphics card can not be modified by Vertex Shaders. This means that if you HIDE an object you can not apply a Vertex Shader to it since it is removed from the rendering pipeline and thus not sent to the Graphics card.

FRAGMENT(aka PIXEL) SHADERS

Fragment Shaders are programs that run on your GPU that effect textures and images that are passed to them. They can change the color of an object to, say, red, or they can do advanced things like per-pixel lighting or cartoon shading. Fragment shaders are commonly called pixel shaders, but technically this is incorrect. They operate on fragments which can be thought of as potential pixels. A fragment is not a pixel until it is on the screen. A number of things can contribute to a fragment not becoming a pixel, but the most common is probably due to the fact that it fails the scissor test. The scissor test is how your GPU determines if a fragment is on screen or not. When a fragment fails the scissor test, it is not rendered and hence does not become a pixel. Failing the scissor test is most likely because the textured object that the shader was applied to is not in, or partially in, the camera's view. Only fragments in the camera's view are rendered and become pixels.

Having said that, it is okay to refer to Fragment shaders as Pixel shaders as most people will know what you are talking about. Indeed, given the wide spread nature of the term it is probably better to use "Pixel shaders" instead of "Fragment Shaders" as there are less people who know or have heard of "Fragment Shaders" than people who have heard of "Pixel shaders."

Also, Fragment Shaders have the same limitation that Vertex shaders do in that they are only executed on the GPU and thus can't work on anything not sent to the GPU.





If you have any comments or requests for clairification then just post'em and I'll see if I can get to them.
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Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 09:57 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2003 09:58
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A link to the site in the newcomer's section would be good-- but the FAQ is a lot less likely to get contributations there, so I think the main post would be best off either here in the in the DBP discussion board.

Just a few quick FAQ style Q&As:

-Why are my images blurred?

By default, images are loaded with mipmaps for use texturing objects. If you are going to use an image for pasting on the screen or want to preserve its exact quality for other reasons, set the Texture Flag to one when you call the command; for example, Load Image "Grass.bmp",1 becomes Load Image "Grass.bmp",1,1

-How can I make my objects look smoother?

'Set Normalization On' normalizes all 3d normals in the video memory, making lighting on your objects look smoother. 'Set Object Smoothing' allows you to smooth the normals on a particular object to a given amount.

-Why does my matrix have lines between tiles?

This is a corollary of the texture rendering system. Use the command 'Set Matrix Trim' to get rid of these lines.

-How do I give an object an animated texture?

There are multiple ways to do this. One is to retexture the object whenever you want to change the animation frame, which is slow. A better way is to make a seperately textured object for each frame, and hide all but the current-frame object in the main loop. Another way is to make your animation an MPEG or AVI movie file and use the command 'Play animation to image'. If you just want to scroll your object's texture instead of change it, you can use the 'Scroll object texture' command.

-What do the 'Sync' commands do?

Without any Sync commands, when your program's display updates is left to Windows to decide. This is generally a very bad idea for games, as it causes ugly flickering, wild speed varitions, and unneccessary slowness. When you use 'Sync On', you set your program to only update its display when you tell it to with the 'Sync' command. Use the 'Sync' command at the end of every loop to update your display smoothly.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 09:59
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thanks for all that on shaders neophyte
dboy, your staying in the credits, you've been helping alot
mattman, what link? if you've emailed me i haven't got it yet
thanks to everyone who has contributed so far, if you find anymore links to good questions/helpful sites then please post here.
Thanks


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Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 10:12
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DBoy, they might not be asked all the time, but they are asked some. Also, when browsing through an FAQ, half the time people aren't looking for answers to a specific question, they're also just picking up knowledge that'll prevent them from having to ask questions later.

Perhaps those more advances bits of information could be put into an advanced FAQ?

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

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Don Malone
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 13:33
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They are good questions and detailed (but not overly technical) answeres. I am just worried about having a FAQ so long that it becomes a turnoff for New Users.

Most people will not read through a twenty page document if they can get an answer easier by posting a question. When the FAQ becomes more stable and an index is created it will help but it is difficult at this point.

ReD_eYe
You are to kind. Will they allow a link to the FAQ in the Newcomers Corner section and keep this post here for suggestions. We could also use a nice catchy title for the FAQ since a basic FAQ already exists there.

What do you think about.
Quote: "Dark Basic's Most Msked Questions - FAQ"


and a special thanks to ReD_eYe for doing all this work to help people like me.

Thanks ReD_eYe.
Don

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IanM
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 13:53
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That's not a bad idea, but maybe a better one is for ReD_eYe and RPGamer to combine their FAQs ...
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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 19:11
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It will be much easier for people to find what they want when i do an index/contents page, but as you'll appreciate it takes time to get it all sorted at the moment especially with school and having a life Luckil;y its Xmas soon and i'll be able to get on top of it then
I'll try and include RPG's thread within the FAQ and alot of it is already there, i won't put the forum rules in there however. Its a FAQ about DB not forum life.


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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 19:41
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I've just updated again, i've added neophytes very good explanation of shaders as a seperate page, as it was fairly long.
But now i'm thinking there would be questions as to how to use shaders properly, so could someone do a bit of code which shows how to use a shader, and possibly some links to some more to download?
thanks


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Neophyte
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 20:35
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@Mouse

"A link to the site in the newcomer's section would be good-- but the FAQ is a lot less likely to get contributations there, so I think the main post would be best off either here in the in the DBP discussion board."

I see. Point taken.

@ReD_eYe

"thanks for all that on shaders neophyte"

Anytime. I've been working on an FAQ for shaders, but I've been putting it on the backburner lately as I have been busy with more important things. Maybe I'll start back up on it again. If I complete it I'll post it here and in the 3D forum as soon as I can.
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Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 20:56
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Btw, yes, that was an excellent explination of shaders... I even learned a few things from it

Red_Eye, if you ever don't have time for an update, give me a shout and I'll update the file and send it your way for quick uploading. I don't have that thing called 'a life' that you mentioned

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 21:15
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thanks mouse i'm dong ok at the moment, if you want to save the site, (view-source, while looking at it) so that you can add to it please do, i won't be updating that page for awhile as i am starting on a index(not too hard ) so you can make changes as you wish and then send them to me so i can check them quickly, just don't delete any of the target links.


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the_winch
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 21:28
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Might want to put a link to the ultimate bsp thread.
http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=9319&b=3
or perhaps ask permission from the posters to consolidate the info into the faq.

Also perhaps a link to Guyons darkbasic pro book project
http://darkrealms.dbpcommunity.com/
thread
http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=18038&b=9

dbpro : p166mmx @ 233 : 256mb : sb 128pci : sis onboard
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Mattman
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 23:33
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sorry, here it is:

http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=10332&b=8

for rpg's

I am mischeivious
RoooooOoooooKoooooKoooooRoooooOoooooKoooooKooooo!
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2003 00:15
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Some couple of things :

For database access, you've got two choices : Use SQL and setup your own connection strings, and you have to manually create a table before use; or you cam use SQLite where everything is done programatically, generally using SQL commands.

See my web site for examples.

Speech : Again, see my web site. The Speech API needs to be installed before use (for W95/98/ME - W2000/XP has it already installed), and must, of course, be running properly beforehand.

INI Files : Ability to read and write strings, integers and floats. See my web site etc etc

Complex mathematical functions : PI, factorials, logs, floating point compares, bessel functions.

Memory & File I/O : Reading and writing strings, integers, floats, bytes, words to and from memory, plus conversion of strings to wide-bytes. In addition, file I/O with sharing can handle block reading/writing using pre-allocated memory or pre-defined memory (256K blocks).

Printers : Allow printing from a program. A printer needs to be selected before printing can commence.

CRC-32 : Calculates CRC32 (32-bit CRC code) from either a file or memory.


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CattleRustler
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2003 00:41 Edited at: 3rd Dec 2003 00:42
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Yes a link to the Ultimate BSP Thread would be a good idea - Yskonyn, myself, and Apexnow (and others) have put together a very useful bsp-Valve Hammer Editor help file - mainly for getting it set up correctly to work with dbp, and I see quite a few people asking about VHE on the forums.

-RUST-
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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2003 19:16
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just added a contents page

http://redeye.dbpcommunity.com/contents.htm

makes it easier to navigate round the questions, added mattmans link and abit on bsp's could do with some more links showing alternative ways of doing levels though


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2003 19:26 Edited at: 3rd Dec 2003 19:53
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You haven't got any of my suggestions there

And :

Random access files - Can be done using the native commands, or for reading blocks of data, see my Memory plug-in.


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CattleRustler
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2003 19:52
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Red_Eye great job on putting this all together! This is what has been needed here for a long time - I implore anyone else that can help with content please contribute!

good work everyone
yeay team! lol.

-RUST-
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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2003 20:50 Edited at: 3rd Dec 2003 20:59
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sorry tca, i was just concentrating on the contents page and doing little bits to the main part, it'll be up tonight, as i'm doing it now
thanks cattlerustler and everyone...
contribute contribute contribute!
hehe

#edit# just a question, tca, should your info be under different questions, eg. how can i use a database with db? or all under one general heading of .dll's?


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2003 21:28
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Whichever you like...


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IanM
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2003 21:40 Edited at: 3rd Dec 2003 21:41
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How about putting a general Q/A in ...

Q) DBPro doesn't do {whatever}. Where can I get a plug-in from?
A) TCA's site, IanM's site, RobK's site, NuclearGlory's site.

Wouldn't that be easier than listing all the plug-ins individually?
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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2003 22:14 Edited at: 3rd Dec 2003 22:15
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Ok, lol i started doing it one by one with TCA's then read this post again, so its kind of a mixture, works ok though
http://redeye.dbpcommunity.com/contents.htm


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IanM
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2003 23:02
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No hidden commands for DBPro? Try this:

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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2003 23:24
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damn sorry, forgot about those maybe i'll ad them to the
FFAQ-False Frequently Asked Questions


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2003 23:33 Edited at: 3rd Dec 2003 23:34
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Bit of a spelling error in PLAY GAME - 'the fought with valour'...

Quote: "stop TCA taking over the world with his plug-ins"

You dont want to do that now - might have to send the boys round...


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