Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

AppGameKit Classic Chat / AGK 2 Official Development Blog

Author
Message
SpecTre
Developer
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Feb 2003
Location: UK
Posted: 11th Jun 2015 20:14
Link
Quote: "
Hi, in the spirit of openness and transparency we're now publishing the daily progress of App Game Kit 2 Development. For now we'll post into this message, longer term we'll setup a proper Blog on the main AppGameKit site.
"


It might be worth editing the first post and getting rid of this

The Amiga and Amos were great!
My website LEAP - Download Paint Pot here!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Clonkex
Forum Vice President
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 12th Jun 2015 04:02
Link
Quote: "i have worked on a B3D Loader with lightmaps (T1) but i can't deal with B3D File Animations sections (vertices manipulations required !) :p"


Nice! Looks good! Brings back memories of when I first played around with DBPro


Placement Editor Professional -- Code Line Counter -- Tiled TMX Map Loader 2.0
Open Bezier Curve Library -- Image Tools -- MarbleX GUI Library -- NeoParticle -- Simple Serial
Back to top
Profile PM Email
RickV
TGC Development Director
25
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Apr 2000
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 12th Jun 2015 15:38
Link
Blog updated!

Development Director
TGC Team
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Clonkex
Forum Vice President
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 12th Jun 2015 17:10
Link
Quote: "We initially started looking at COLLADA 3D file format but have since decided to see if we can integrate the Open Asset Import Library."


Ah, excellent idea! Why reinvent the wheel? Really excited to see what we can manage with AppGameKit once we can load a variety of 3D models!


Placement Editor Professional -- Code Line Counter -- Tiled TMX Map Loader 2.0
Open Bezier Curve Library -- Image Tools -- MarbleX GUI Library -- NeoParticle -- Simple Serial
Back to top
Profile PM Email
BatVink
Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 12th Jun 2015 17:54
Link
Quote: " Why reinvent the wheel?"


Because it would be too many polys, Better to have a multi-sided polygon and a good shader

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
TutCity is being rebuilt
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Clonkex
Forum Vice President
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 13th Jun 2015 08:58
Link
Quote: "Because it would be too many polys, Better to have a multi-sided polygon and a good shader"


-__-




Placement Editor Professional -- Code Line Counter -- Tiled TMX Map Loader 2.0
Open Bezier Curve Library -- Image Tools -- MarbleX GUI Library -- NeoParticle -- Simple Serial
Back to top
Profile PM Email
cgman
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th May 2011
Location: Germany
Posted: 15th Jun 2015 09:00
Link
I'm very happy about the update! It's great to hear that it already works on windows. Importing 3D models was difficult. Now we can play around with multiple formats and importers. I wish you success!
Back to top
Profile PM
Polaraul
10
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Dec 2014
Location:
Posted: 15th Jun 2015 11:39
Link
Improved 3D commands are to be welcomed, but will there be any anti-aliasing to accompany these for the Windows target?

Also, will the terrain features that were mentioned way back on the KickStarter page be added?
Back to top
Profile PM
Alien Menace
AGK Developer
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Jan 2005
Location: Earth (just visiting)
Posted: 17th Jun 2015 00:11
Link
Quote: "We initially started looking at COLLADA 3D file format but have since decided to see if we can integrate the Open Asset Import Library."


Now that is exciting news! Wow, BVH support would be nice.

I love my Altair 8800 Replica.

http://altairclone.com/
Back to top
Profile PM
RickV
TGC Development Director
25
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Apr 2000
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 22nd Jun 2015 16:41
Link
Bump! New blog update on the first message of the thread.

Development Director
TGC Team
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
CJB
Valued Member
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Feb 2004
Location: Essex, UK
Posted: 22nd Jun 2015 16:57
Link
Good to see progress is being made!

V2 T1 (Mostly)
Uzmadesign
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
baxslash
Valued Member
Bronze Codemaster
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Dec 2006
Location: Duffield
Posted: 22nd Jun 2015 17:56
Link
Great idea using the open asset import library!!

Using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
Back to top
Profile PM Email
bjadams
AGK Backer
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Mar 2008
Location:
Posted: 22nd Jun 2015 18:31
Link
open asset import library supports so many formats.
wise move
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Polaraul
10
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Dec 2014
Location:
Posted: 22nd Jun 2015 18:47
Link
It is good to see some progress being made, but it still seems to have a very long way to go.
Back to top
Profile PM
Username Goes Here
User Deleted
Posted: 23rd Jun 2015 08:43
Link
I think it will be 2016 when we see this being released.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Using AGK2 Tier 1
Back to top
Profile PM
Beo6
11
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Feb 2014
Location:
Posted: 23rd Jun 2015 10:40
Link
Just be patient. Its not like they build from the ground up. There where already some 3D commands so they must have stuff for 3D already.
Back to top
Profile PM
x3meblue
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Dec 2008
Location: Nuremberg, Germany
Posted: 23rd Jun 2015 22:17
Link
@MikeHart Wow, you are really optimistic. I just hope the final, fully featured release of AGK2 is Windows 12 compatible ;-P

AGK2 Tier 1 / GameGuru / DB PRO / ProMotion 6.5
Back to top
Profile PM
SoftMotion3D
AGK Developer
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2005
Location: Calgary,Alberta
Posted: 24th Jun 2015 04:11
Link
im currently very happy with agk2's current state. for me anything new added is just bonus!

Thanks allot guys for your great efforts on such a great product!

www.sheldonscreations.com
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
RickV
TGC Development Director
25
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Apr 2000
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 24th Jun 2015 10:17
Link
As I keep saying, we're in it for the long term! We might not be the fastest animal in the wild but we're a diligent and determined one with an eye on the end goal!

Development Director
TGC Team
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
baxslash
Valued Member
Bronze Codemaster
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Dec 2006
Location: Duffield
Posted: 24th Jun 2015 11:26
Link
There are those among us Rick who are in it for the long term too just keep plugging away. Hopefully one day the TGC team will be as big as we all wish it was.

Using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Yaro
11
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Mar 2014
Location:
Posted: 26th Jun 2015 06:37
Link
I'm very pleased with AGK. It's stable enough to develop on, and I can count on more and more features being added over time. Unless the market shifts drastically, I don't think TGC will need to abandon ship. We started at ground level and only go up.
Back to top
Profile PM
Alien Menace
AGK Developer
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Jan 2005
Location: Earth (just visiting)
Posted: 28th Jun 2015 04:54 Edited at: 28th Jun 2015 05:02
Link
The way I see it, the sooner they finish the AGK2 Kickstarter goals, the sooner they could Kickstart AGK3... if they decide to do that... there's a lot of cool stuff that could be added like SQL Lite support, DBP client/server interoperability, file commands, flat 3d object sprites, serial commands for Arduino, plug-in support, additional sprite blend modes, swipe commands, etc.

I love my Altair 8800 Replica.

http://altairclone.com/
Back to top
Profile PM
gwheycs62egydws
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Aug 2009
Location: The World
Posted: 29th Jun 2015 18:26
Link
@Alien Menace

I and am shire a few others would prefer the get Agk2 up to the same
level DBP is before they even think of abandoning Agk2

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Alien Menace
AGK Developer
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Jan 2005
Location: Earth (just visiting)
Posted: 30th Jun 2015 05:19 Edited at: 30th Jun 2015 07:51
Link
I have to respecfully disagree. I think all TGC owes us for v2 are the current Kickstarter goals. Many software companies offer paid updates to their products every year, this is how they stay in business. A lot of healthy companies have embraced this business model because I don't think you just can just pay for a piece of software once (especially an inexpensive piece of software like AGK) and expect a company to pay for further development and new features without additional revenue to pay for the development costs. The well will eventually run dry and the product becomes static like DBP has. AppGameKit needs a profitable, sustainable business model that will ensure a healthy future.

I love my Altair 8800 Replica.

http://altairclone.com/
Back to top
Profile PM
Clonkex
Forum Vice President
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 30th Jun 2015 07:48
Link
I'm not sure there will ever be an AGK3. The reason for AGK2 was because AGK1 wasn't a great codebase and needed refactoring. They have an excellent codebase and editor with AGK2 and there shouldn't be any need to ever create an AGK3 - AGK2 will just keep getting better and gaining features

Just my 5 cents


Placement Editor Professional -- Code Line Counter -- Tiled TMX Map Loader 2.0
Open Bezier Curve Library -- Image Tools -- MarbleX GUI Library -- NeoParticle -- Simple Serial
Back to top
Profile PM Email
SpecTre
Developer
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Feb 2003
Location: UK
Posted: 30th Jun 2015 11:03
Link
Kickstarter's can still be ongoing as update packs for AGK2 rather than going to AGK3 for future upgrades to keep the money flowing and also have more people working on the product for faster development.

The Amiga and Amos were great!
My website LEAP - Download Paint Pot here!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
MrValentine
AGK Backer
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 30th Jun 2015 13:51
Link
Quote: "... and also have more people working on the product for faster development."


How many people does it take to change a light bulb?

#FoodForThought

Back to top
Profile PM
baxslash
Valued Member
Bronze Codemaster
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Dec 2006
Location: Duffield
Posted: 30th Jun 2015 14:22
Link
Quote: "How many people does it take to change a light bulb?"

Not sure what your point is Mr.V? surely more people developing AppGameKit would be a good thing?

Using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
Back to top
Profile PM Email
MrValentine
AGK Backer
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 30th Jun 2015 14:36
Link
I don't always agree throwing more resources at something will guarantee desirable outcomes... Sure faster... But at what cost...

Just saying it may not always be the case...

Back to top
Profile PM
Scraggle
Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Posted: 30th Jun 2015 14:39
Link
I doubt that many (if any) other people will share that opinion.
More people on the dev team will obviously be a better thing.

AGK V2 user - Tier 1 (mostly)
Back to top
Profile PM Email
MrValentine
AGK Backer
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 30th Jun 2015 14:46
Link
I did not say it was my opinion

Back to top
Profile PM
CJB
Valued Member
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Feb 2004
Location: Essex, UK
Posted: 30th Jun 2015 15:35
Link
Yes you did!

V2 T1 (Mostly)
Uzmadesign
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
MrValentine
AGK Backer
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 30th Jun 2015 15:40
Link
No I didn't

Back to top
Profile PM
Scraggle
Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Posted: 30th Jun 2015 15:41
Link
I didn't say it was your opinion either but I think that every man and his dog will agree that you implied it.

AGK V2 user - Tier 1 (mostly)
Back to top
Profile PM Email
MrValentine
AGK Backer
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 30th Jun 2015 15:58
Link
Damn you are right, you did not imply it was my opinion lol damn headache...

Still it is not my opinion...

However I think sticking to a system whereby it implies incremental generations... 1, 2..... 3... I think following the competition such as Unity and Unreal is wise but it does mean AGK3 is something that will happen... But likely next year... As much as I would like for AppGameKit to just me named AppGameKit and be done with it... It has to up its game and appear modern for the layman types...

DBPro may have suffered from this... As it never had a trailing name and people assume it has never been updated since launch... Or whatever... But it has been quite a few years since the last update...

Bearing in mind DBPro comes from an era where a physical disk was expected... Unity as far as I am aware is a digital age product... Unreal moved into Digital after Unreal 3 (The Game) if I got that bit wrong do correct me

There are many factors here to consider...

But I just wish 🌠 we would all agree TGC just need time... They are a small team with presumably a small budget compared to the other companies...

If the above sounds like dribble... It is likely my headache talking...

Back to top
Profile PM
SpecTre
Developer
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Feb 2003
Location: UK
Posted: 30th Jun 2015 18:18
Link
Doesn't have to follow a numbered path eg AppGameKit 1 2 3 4 etc, Windows 10 is apparently going to be the last version, however with regular updates.

Not too mithered how long things take and many on here would probably agree, however if TGC have a chance at regular income, maybe a yearly kickstarter or something then it can only help the product, especially with more than one working on it. This would definitely take the stress away from Paul with us all saying I want this and I want that

Yearly stretch goals and more devs then, wow what a product and an attraction that would be to new users.

I also can't wait for this asset store

The Amiga and Amos were great!
My website LEAP - Download Paint Pot here!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
MrValentine
AGK Backer
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 30th Jun 2015 18:33
Link
Though I would happily chuck £10-50+ a year at TGC to keep them active... Is a Kickstarter seen as the best solution?

A few years ago I had, and pretty sure others in the past have suggested that they place a DONATION button on their site so we can at our sole discretion chuck those coins at them whenever we had some spare...

I cannot see any implications business wise for that to be done... and an incentive for it is well... it is Tax free entirely I believe... Even if there is a degree of tax deduction it will unlikely affect anything... and the majority of the process is feasible no matter what anybody says... well... the accountant might be a little annoyed however

Back to top
Profile PM
SpecTre
Developer
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Feb 2003
Location: UK
Posted: 30th Jun 2015 18:53
Link
Donation button is an idea however most people just ignore that as they want to know what they are getting for their money, a voting system for features might be good where you can vote as much money as you like and the top 20 features get completed that year eg:

1 - more 2d drawing commands
2 - extra dev for a year working on AGK
3 - etc

Or even more specific with commands

When the voting finishes all the money goes to the development of these commands etc and they get ticked off the list then it starts again the next year etc.

I don't know but only suggestions as kickstarter is not necessarily the answer but you get the gist.

I think the asset store is another biggy but also a tool store, would make money for TGC and the devs who make them taking a % share.
There are lots of great tools in the making so let's get them AppGameKit branded, just looks more professional and attractive to newcomers knowing they have everything under one roof so to speak.

The Amiga and Amos were great!
My website LEAP - Download Paint Pot here!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
gwheycs62egydws
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Aug 2009
Location: The World
Posted: 30th Jun 2015 20:01
Link
@Alien Menace

ok it makes seance that money needs to be continually generated

if the improvements happen to bring AppGameKit 2 in this case up to
the same level as DBP then a yearly fee i have no problem
paying

but I would prefer not to have to keep buying a complete package

if there are addition out side of the program then fine i am willing to pay for them as did with DBP

right now just as much more programs need to be built
to show case what AppGameKit 2 can do and at this point it
is far less than what is out there

if people who make programing using AppGameKit 2 show
in the start up of there program what it was built using
AGK 2 then it will get more people interested in getting it
since the learning curve is easier than whats around

my food for thought on this

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Impetus73
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Aug 2011
Location: Volda, Norway
Posted: 1st Jul 2015 00:05
Link
It only takes one able person to change a light bulb

----------------
AGK programmer
Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90's.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
BatVink
Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 1st Jul 2015 00:54
Link
Who cares how many it takes, that's a problem for the hardware guys.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
TutCity is being rebuilt
Back to top
Profile PM Email
MrValentine
AGK Backer
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 1st Jul 2015 01:41
Link
BatVink you hardwareist Just kidding...

I wonder what the next update entails?

Back to top
Profile PM
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 1st Jul 2015 13:26
Link
I don't think TGC should Kickstart AppGameKit 3. But I think that they can offer an early upgrade. Once AppGameKit 2 is done, anyone who owns it can pay to get access to early AppGameKit 3 builds. I also think that there is a need for expansions and multiple versions. For example, a lower price for a 2D only version. And payed for expansions like Playstation support etc. I think that it is important to offer developers the possibility to release games for consoles when they need to. The price for that can of course be quite high. It's not something most people need.

The effectiveness of adding more programmers drops for each one. A single developer that already knows the project is going to give the most for the money. It's slower than two, but not 50% slower.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
Clonkex
Forum Vice President
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 1st Jul 2015 15:28
Link
Quote: "The effectiveness of adding more programmers drops for each one. A single developer that already knows the project is going to give the most for the money. It's slower than two, but not 50% slower."


I'd never thought about that. I guess you're right


Placement Editor Professional -- Code Line Counter -- Tiled TMX Map Loader 2.0
Open Bezier Curve Library -- Image Tools -- MarbleX GUI Library -- NeoParticle -- Simple Serial
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Impetus73
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Aug 2011
Location: Volda, Norway
Posted: 1st Jul 2015 15:50 Edited at: 1st Jul 2015 15:53
Link
2 people working in pair, work twice as fast as 1 person using the double amount of time.

If they work together on the same screen, both talking, one typing, one checking, errors are greatly reduced, and time wasted on errors disappear...

It's a odd and different coding style, but tests shows pairing like that is more effective.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair_programming

----------------
AGK programmer
Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90's.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
MrValentine
AGK Backer
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 1st Jul 2015 17:51
Link
Thankfully Digital Awakening pointed out half an issue relating to my light bulb hint... I wonder if anybody can guess the other factor...

Back to top
Profile PM
BatVink
Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 1st Jul 2015 22:31
Link
Quote: "The effectiveness of adding more programmers drops for each one."


That's not actually true. Myself and a colleague demonstrated in a work environment that 1 + 1 = 2.5

As soon as you hit a challenge that you cannot solve immediately with your current knowledge, the power of 2 is much greater.

The challenge is, as you say, introducing somebody to a project they have no knowledge of. But this is the same for all walks of life. But you have to take the hit initially in order to gain long term. The quickest way to overcome this challenge is for a new developer to work on new functionality, which is then integrated by the lead developer.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
TutCity is being rebuilt
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Impetus73
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Aug 2011
Location: Volda, Norway
Posted: 2nd Jul 2015 14:59
Link
Same when repairing a copeir, if one person need 5 hours for a complete overhaul, 2 people can do it in less than 2,5 hours.

----------------
AGK programmer
Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90's.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
CJB
Valued Member
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Feb 2004
Location: Essex, UK
Posted: 2nd Jul 2015 17:39
Link
Same when lots of chefs work on the same broth... oh wait.



V2 T1 (Mostly)
Uzmadesign
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
SpecTre
Developer
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Feb 2003
Location: UK
Posted: 2nd Jul 2015 18:25
Link
Quote: "Same when lots of chefs work on the same broth... oh wait."


great comment lol

The Amiga and Amos were great!
My website LEAP - Download Paint Pot here!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2025-08-09 02:08:15
Your offset time is: 2025-08-09 02:08:15