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Geek Culture / Why so few Space Sims?

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MicroMan
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 18:55
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In the thread about S.E.U.C.K someone mentioned Elite, and it struck me. You can count the space sims on one hand: Elite, Freelancer, Wing Commander, etc. And there's years between each title. Why is this?

Considering Elite has sold 1 million copies today (according to Frontier Developments) there is a market for it. Everyone seems to have got stuck in FPS-land these days. No variety. I'd love to see a decent space sim again.

(Homeworld doesn't really count since its more a RTS-game set in space).

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las6
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 19:08
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Freespace?
X?

(X2 - The Threat is probably the latest one anyways)

And no, they don't sell all that well these days..
Shame really. I so wished that there would be Freespace 3.

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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 19:16
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i reckon there are a load of developers secretly... developing a mmoss(massively multiplayer online space sim) this would be amazing to play and they will probably all be released at the same time, i'm predicting april 2005, thats just my theory of course.


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MicroMan
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 20:56 Edited at: 1st Dec 2003 20:57
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@red_eye:
And they just bought their first programming language about a week or so ago, or...?

@las6
Well, yes, two more... But that doesn't take away from what I said. There's one decent space sim once every three years or so. But there's one FPS every three minutes (or so it seems).

Not that I mind FPS:es. I'm making one myself. However, I think it would be good for the industry with a little variety. And I'd personally love a decent space sim right now.

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 20:56
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Quote: "massively multiplayer online space sim"


There have already been 3 online Elite-style games. Unfortunately none of them have been worth the subscription.

The big problem with Elite is the nostalgia factor, many of us want to write the perfect Elite... "It would be great if Elite did X/Y or Z".

The problem is, everyone has a different opinion of what X/Y and Z are. So unless you remake Elite, or your name is David Braben and you can remould Elite, then all your doing is giving something to an old nostalgic computer hack who wont like your game because it "Is not what it could have been".

None-the-less, i'm still writting my own "Perfect Elite" And I dun' care if nobody else likes it


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 22:15
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Its rather tricky too, I should think - you've got space craft physics to deal with, plus AI, plus trading...


Mirrors are more fun than television. Well, that was fun, in a not-so-fun sort of way...
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Ian T
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Posted: 1st Dec 2003 22:21
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Elite, Elite 2, Elite 3, Freelancer, Privateer, Privateer mission pack, Privateer 2, X, X2.

Seems like a good deal to me.

They may be popular, but FPS do sell better. And it's very easy to fail. Freelancer was a faliure IMO. Ridiculously linear for a 'spiritual Freelancer sequel'.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 01:05
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Quote: "Its rather tricky too, I should think - you've got space craft physics to deal with, plus AI, plus trading...
"


Elite is very easy to program. I have one half made, and it was my first 3D project. I think anyone could make this game.

As for why are there few space games. Well actually there are a lot of space games from around the time of Elite, but Elite was so good that you don't hear about the others. There was Federation Of Free Traders, and Starglider. Wing Commander, StarFox, Starfighter, Star Trek, and some others.

Pincho.
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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 01:16
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Quote: ". Freelancer was a faliure "


well that sucks...

I thought Freelancer was awesome

Amist the Blue Skies...
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Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2003 01:53
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Pincho-- Perhaps, but Elite is far simpler than Elite 2, which used an advanced newtonian physics model.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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David T
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2003 22:04
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Quote: "[quote]Freelancer was a faliure IMO"

well that sucks...

I thought Freelancer was awesome[/quote]

It was awesome

Incredible game IMO.

"Help! My keyboard is stuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk"

Mercenaries in Space demo @ http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk
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heartbone
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2003 22:36
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That's right Pincho Jez San's Starglider & Starglider 2 !! I still play both of those. Wonderful work.

I bought Frontier - Elite and found it was too big and hard to get a grip on. Still it was a wonder. And the entire program fit on 1/2 of a low density 3 1/2" floppy!

You are right Pincho it would be relatively easy to do in DarkBASIC, if one had the inclination and time.

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
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ESC_
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2003 22:37
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One of my all time favorite space sims has to be the (fairly) old mac game Escape Velocity.

''For nonconformity, the world whips you with its displeasure''---Ralph Waldo Emerson
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MicroMan
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Posted: 5th Dec 2003 01:34
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Running Elite - Frontier on new windows is nigh impossible since Elite Frontier is a DOS game and needs exclusive mode. But, there is a "dodgy" windows port for First Encounters at least.

By that I mean that it is a reverse engineered, recompiled First Encounters. It's sort of a nod-and-a-wink-type of game but it's not anything that Frontier Developments have given anyone permission to do. However since the game is so old Frontier Developments isn't doing anything to halt the spread of it.

Anyways, if anyone wants to relive Frontier JJFFE is the way to do it on modern computers. Hopefully I don't get into trouble by mentioning it here.

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Newbie Brogo
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Posted: 5th Dec 2003 01:42
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i know of a mmoss, but it costs money, but when you first sign up you get 7-day free trial, and what they did to me is constantly keep e-mailing me more free subscriptions becuase they want me to play more. You can prestige to gain ranks, like captain ect. its called Dark Space, i havent played in forever though, even though darkspace just gave me another 7day free trial... (download takes 4-5 hours on dial-up, sadly i waited that long... and like a few days after i got darkspace, i got highspeed internet...) but u can get it at http://www.darkspace.net or you can get it here (where i got it, and sadly regret doing so, for i cannot switch over to the U.S. servers now.... but i'm stuck on the asian servers..) http://www.darkspace.net.sg


You did what? For who?! For how many jellybeans?!?

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Vite
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Posted: 6th Dec 2003 02:11
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Hi All, me thinks "Elite" was the "Half-life" of its time.

It succeeded because it was both deep an beautifull where the other games of the time where quite shallow an left you bored by the 2nd week.

Similarly, I know Quake3 & Unreal tournament, Unreal have their fans, but half-life,,,,, wiped the floor with both combined

Infact, I thought Quake 3 & Unreal tournament represented an incredibly backwards step in game developement.

Anyway, I don't think anyone could make a space sim a best seller again, de market is "tiny"

Besides, who can name a single spacecraft flown by humans rather than by computers,

How do craft wizzing along at 15,000 mph dogfight ?

"Space sim" surely is a misnomer for virtually every one including "elite"

I loved elite, played it for a year on multiple formats
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 6th Dec 2003 03:23 Edited at: 6th Dec 2003 03:23
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Who said space combat will be at 15,000mph? Afterall, in the future, anything could be possible.

The beauty of space is that you can give a game the combat and fighting style of a Battle of Britain game: High technology, and close enough to see the white's of their eyes!

Certainly that's the proximity of combat I am aiming for in the Elitish space sim I am working on at the moment because you are right, who wants to shoot missiles at a dot on a radar screen So i'm just inventing a future where that is not possible...




God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
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