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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Open world terrain creation - Advanced Terrain or Matrix techniques

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Harlequin
16
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Joined: 22nd Mar 2010
Location: Melbourne (AU)
Posted: 14th Apr 2014 17:08
Hi all,
newish to DBPro and very new to 3D and terrain.

My objective to be able to create large scale (10+ km's wide) open world style (foliage and buildings)...but that's a long way away at present (happy to start very small)

I know in order to create large scale terrain with high detail, I will need to break it up chunks and use LOD to limit what is rendered among other techniques not yet known to me.

But basically whats the best method to start in using, Advanced Terrain or learn the matrix techniques?

My feel is the matrix techniques are more portable and flexible, but is it faster than the Advanced Terrain and will I need to "re-invent the wheel" (like create a LOD function..etc) for matrix.

thanks for you help in advanced.

It's late, I'm tired, out of coffee and now I'm wet.
SamKM
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Posted: 14th Apr 2014 21:12
I've never really experimented with matrices much, but from what I know about them I wouldn't recommend them - they're more easily customisable in terms of adjusting height, I guess, but you can't apply shaders or multiple layers of texture to them. I've read a few people saying they're annoyingly slow, as well (the matrices, not the people). I reckon it'd be almost impossible to code LOD functions for matrices too, because once you've generated a matrix, you can't change the number of tiles it has, or move them in any way except vertically :/
The advanced terrain commands are also quite out of date, but they might be a good idea for starting out with terrain! You need to have a heightmap for those, as you probably already know, but they pretty much handle themselves, which is great.
For your actual open-world project, I definitely wouldn't recommend either matrices or advanced terrain! I'd say your best option would be to check out the awesome Advanced Lighting code written by Evolved, which has examples for creating very detailed terrain. Here's the link:
http://www.evolved-software.com/advancedlighting/advancedlighting
Figuring out how to use Advanced Lighting can take some time though, and if you're new to DBPro, it'd definitely be jumping in the deep end!
Good luck with the project!
Green Gandalf
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21
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Joined: 3rd Jan 2005
Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.
Posted: 14th Apr 2014 23:05 Edited at: 14th Apr 2014 23:06
I'd recommend starting with Advanced Terrain and when you know its limitations move on to BlitzTerrain or your own custom terrain.

I use high poly plains constructed with the Matrix1 utilities. The overall structure is similar to Advanced Terrain but more predictable (Advanced Terrain has some annoying idiosyncracies).

I usually use a shader to add extra detail or effects.

Here's a sample screenshot:





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Chris Tate
DBPro Master
17
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Joined: 29th Aug 2008
Location: London, England
Posted: 14th Apr 2014 23:42
That looks like a nice scene; I like the halo in the horizon and the way the perspective of the clouds.

Green Gandalf
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Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.
Posted: 14th Apr 2014 23:59
Thanks - but did you notice the fps?

That was part of a talk on terrains that I gave to our local computer club.



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Mobiius
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Joined: 27th Feb 2003
Location: The Cold North
Posted: 15th Apr 2014 01:54
Quote: "BlitzTerrain"

Job done.

Here's a video of one of my BlitzTerrain terrains. Totally random and generated at runtime.


Harlequin
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Joined: 22nd Mar 2010
Location: Melbourne (AU)
Posted: 15th Apr 2014 09:23
Thanks everyone for your input.

To keep it simple I will start with the Advanced-Terrain features and use this to teach myself the concepts required to move on to either Blitzwerks, the Advancedlighting modules from Evolved or even my own modules.

Small steps towards the end goal will mean I will learn more and make for something better at the end (hopefully).

It's late, I'm tired, out of coffee and now I'm wet.
Chris Tate
DBPro Master
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Joined: 29th Aug 2008
Location: London, England
Posted: 15th Apr 2014 19:31 Edited at: 15th Apr 2014 19:33
Quote: " Thanks - but did you notice the fps? ... That was part of a talk on terrains that I gave to our local computer club"


No big deal, it looks good for a 3D platform game. What is causing the frame rate drop?

Quote: "Small steps towards the end goal will mean I will learn more and make for something better at the end (hopefully)."


You should be fine with this sort of work; to be honest terrain is construction is not very difficult to get up and running, and it is a great deal of fun.

Green Gandalf
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Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.
Posted: 16th Apr 2014 00:57
Quote: "What is causing the frame rate drop?"


Er, good question.

I've just looked at the code and discovered I'd capped the frame rate at 60. I guess this gets translated to an effective fps around 30 because of the extra camera renders for the water reflection. Uncapped it runs at a very acceptable 94 fps - and that's on my laptop .

[Note to self: check facts before opening mouth. ]



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Fane
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Joined: 9th May 2012
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Posted: 16th Apr 2014 08:51 Edited at: 16th Apr 2014 09:00
Yes I would recommend Blitzwerk. I am working with it since few days and it works great. Here are some examples I make in this few days. Both terrain are at 2048x2048 and had a texture with the same size. Runs with stable 60 frames on res 1920x1080 (sync rate 60)





This is the maximum size up to here but maybe there is a way to get a bigger terrain. I am working on it.

System: Win 8.1 64 / Core i5 (3,9GHz), GeForce 760 GTX 192 - Bit Dx 11 (Driver 335.23) / 8GB Ram
Chris Tate
DBPro Master
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Location: London, England
Posted: 16th Apr 2014 15:32
Very smart looking terrains

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