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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Is DBPro still in development?

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chafari
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Posted: 7th May 2014 22:03
Quote: "But then you are guessing, and the point is for DBPro to find the pivots, and not guess the pivots."



In this case, to make a roulete, it was easy, we just get the center of the main limb, and we make a mesh of it( something like an instance) then we just have to add the rest of limbs, and rotate them acording its angle...all made in a bucle FOR/NEXT

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Barry Pythagoras
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Posted: 7th May 2014 22:10 Edited at: 7th May 2014 22:17
If you were making just the wheel it would work, but I already have a model of a Cauldron, and a room so I need accurate scales. I need DBPro to find existing pivot points. DBPro to make the other objects would be hard. It's much easier to have Limb Centre X(), Limb Centre Y(), Limb Centre Z() Then all modelling packages are fixed in one go. You could even offset from those central positions.
chafari
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Posted: 7th May 2014 22:21 Edited at: 7th May 2014 22:27
Quote: "It's mush easier to have Limb Centre X(), Limb Centre Y()."


This is the way that most programs do, but you said that you detach mesh to convert the mesh in a limb, that can be done, but then if you want to find the pivot, it will be all of them in the same pivot of the main object where you detached the mesh. The correct way to do this, (much slower) is to make the first object and then copies of the main object, then manually position one by one every limb all along a circle, to give them coordinates. If what you need, is to make a rouleto as you showed above, you can even make the roulete just with a plain object and a texture, then you will have to rotate the plain and is not difficult to guess what combination it has acording its z rotation.

I'v seen in your model, that you have 45 limbs, so just use a plain and divide the 360 by 45....we have 8. The rotation must rotate randomly (xxx)*8, to position the roulete in every one of the limbs.

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Barry Pythagoras
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Posted: 7th May 2014 22:25 Edited at: 7th May 2014 22:27
Quote: "The correct way to do this, (much slower) is to make the first object and then copies of the maing object, then manually position one by one every limb all along a circle, to give them coordinates."


I know. That's what I am avoiding doing. I was taught to work with shortcuts. I do everything as quickly as possible. You can get the limb centres from the vertex positions. DBPro could do that. I am trying to get DBPro more indie friendly so that more games get finished, and more people can then see finished games, and more people then want to buy DBPro. My project is easy to finish, but I am held up by 3DS having multiple versions.
chafari
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Posted: 7th May 2014 22:30
Quote: "I am trying to get DBPro more indie friendly so that more games get finished, and more people can then see finished games, and more people then want to buy DBPro."


I understand you some how. We all need to put our two cents to keep the boat afloat .

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 7th May 2014 23:08 Edited at: 7th May 2014 23:12
Quote: "But then I would be confused in other programs which work differently."


Well firstly you would not need to use more than one program; just pick the program that creates the kind of .X files you need and stick to it.

Secondly forgetting how to use the other programs is unlikely; by learning how to use Blender, I did not forget how to use Hammer. Frequent use will aid your memory; if you do not use a certain tool much then perhaps it is not worth being installed.

Thirdly you will not become less better off by learning how to use it. Or perhaps consider modelling directly in 3DS Max.

I am building a level editor, but it is hard work; it takes ages to get right. I will consider adding some conversion tools to it; however converting a bad 3D model file will not make a good one.

Quote: "I am trying to get DBPro more indie friendly so that more games get finished, and more people can then see finished games, and more people then want to buy DBPro. My project is easy to finish, but I am held up by 3DS having multiple versions."


It will get easier as you go along. At first it seems really inconvenient to have unavailable features; but when you get more experienced you will have a clearer view of limitations so you can design around them.

Take your time and enjoy the work; what ever game you make will not get built over night. Don't let it get you down if you have to build your own functions; it is a major part of programming.

Learning simplifies; if you want to make games easily then learn more.

Barry Pythagoras
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Posted: 7th May 2014 23:54
However I have solved all of the problems now. My export swapping solved all of the problems, and I don't need to create any functions or learn Blender. I still think I found the easiest way to do this.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 8th May 2014 00:07
Quote: "I am trying to get DBPro more indie friendly so that more games get finished, and more people can then see finished games, and more people then want to buy DBPro."


I agree with you there - but this is probably the wrong thread for such suggestions (sorry OP). Also, I think several of us have tried to solve your immediate problem rather than discuss what features could usefully be added to DBPro - which really ought to be discussed elsewhere.

However as far as your immediate problem is concerned (since the thread has gone down that route), I really don't see why it's so difficult for you to write a few lines of code to add the correct limb offsets to your existing object's limbs. Why is that so difficult compared to the convoluted - and error prone - solution you claim to have found outside DBPro? You seem prepared to jump through all kinds of hoops to get your various modelling programs to work - whereas a few minutes studying DBPro's existing commands would probably solve your problems quickly. All of us can help you with that I'm sure.



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Barry Pythagoras
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Posted: 8th May 2014 00:37 Edited at: 8th May 2014 00:46
I don't see how it solves it? You have to guess the offset that you need, and keep running DBPro F5 over, and over again until your cubes fit in the holes. Then later, when you build another model you have to do that all again... forever guessing.

My way, you just run a few exporters. You never need to concentrate on anything. You can just think about the gameplay, which is the most important thing.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 8th May 2014 02:03
Why do you need to guess?

Why not compute the same thing that your other packages calculate?

Quote: "You never need to concentrate on anything."


Sounds like a recipe for disaster.



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chafari
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Posted: 8th May 2014 02:10
Quote: "My way, you just run a few exporters. You never need to concentrate on anything. You can just think about the gameplay, which is the most important thing."


All of us started one day dreaming about programming games, but even old games of nintendo, could be a nightmare if we try to learn in one weekend. We have to start learning step by step, with lots of try and error. There are also several game maker that make "our" game in some clicks. What have we learned with that? . That could be ok when we are under nine years old. Dbpro is an easy programming lenguage, but we have to concentrate and learn to achieve our goals.

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Barry Pythagoras
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Posted: 8th May 2014 02:37
Quote: "Why not compute the same thing that your other packages calculate?"


That's what I asked for. Commands to compute the same things that my other packages calculate. Limb Centre x(), Limb Centre Y(), Limb Centre Z().

Quote: "All of us started one day dreaming about programming games, but even old games of nintendo, could be a nightmare if we try to learn in one weekend. We have to start learning step by step, with lots of try and error. There are also several game maker that make "our" game in some clicks. What have we learned with that? . That could be ok when we are under nine years old. Dbpro is an easy programming lenguage, but we have to concentrate and learn to achieve our goals."


I figured it out with exporters, why would I program something that is already exported? Would I write a program to UV map my models? Would I write a program to draw my textures like Photoshop? Why would I want to write a program to half build my model that was already made in Anim8or?
chafari
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Posted: 8th May 2014 11:23
Quote: " why would I program something that is already exported? Would I write a program to UV map my models? Would I write a program to draw my textures like Photoshop? Why would I want to write a program to half build my model that was already made in Anim8or?"


You talk exactly like my grandson. Why I have to go to school ?, why do I have to study this ?

We can make our texture program with Dbpro, we can make an UV program with Dbpro. I know that at first could be an imposible challenge. What we are trying to show you, is that we have to learn to talk to walk to run ,swim, jump etc...to fight for our purposes.

Why do you want to make a game with the millions of games that are out there? just take one from internet !!

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 8th May 2014 11:39 Edited at: 8th May 2014 11:43
Following on; you do not have to guess anything if you obtain your vertex locations with the commands shown. I suppose it looks more complicated because you are not that familiar with the DBP command library.

Even in the worst case scenario, you would not have to guess any location of anything. You can simply move the objects around in your program without recompiling, and save their locations by saving the object or your own file format.

If they are arrayed in circular fashion; you could even use cosine math to arrange your elements. In a few lines of code.

Quote: "My way, you just run a few exporters. You never need to concentrate on anything. You can just think about the gameplay, which is the most important thing."


Well... it is not like you are going to run 3 exports on 100 different objects everyday. It will be interesting to see how it all comes together for you; you have an interesting way of looking at this problem. How is everything else going now?

Barry Pythagoras
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Posted: 8th May 2014 14:24 Edited at: 8th May 2014 14:26
Well you see the next task is to create a playing board. If you take Monopoly as an example you have different sized squares around the board. So again I am using limbs, and detaching faces, and using the centres to move the playing pieces around the board. Now you have varying distances, and my method still works. Chafari's method needs reprogramming a second time. Vertices are too complex, as this was supposed to be a student project. I simplified everything for the student project. But I was confused by two things...

Pivots in modelling packages do not get exported as pivots.
Limb Position X() is not a limb position it is a limb offset. It should be Limb Offset X()

So I was confused by all that. Now students need 3DS Max, and all I was going to supply was Anim8or. Or students need to learn Vertex commands, or students need to position objects manually. Manual position is hard to get accurate, and is also extra programming.

Or students need to learn Blender. I can't even use Blender.

So my simple program just became a very complicated program. But for me I have 3DS Max to make it simple.

Or DBPro has a limb Centre X() command. then everything is simple again, and becomes a student project again.
Chris Tate
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Posted: 8th May 2014 14:55 Edited at: 8th May 2014 14:56
Hmm, so you will have lots of significant coordinates to work with.

By the way it should not be too difficult to write something like this; I have not tested it because it is just an illustration.



It should only take you 5 or 10 minutes to get that to work; then you have your function. And that is the point of programming, to make things work the way you want it to work.

I was wondering if you used 3DSMax to model the scene, it might fix your problems; see what happens if you take Anim8tor out of the procedure.

I said all of this before but you seem to have skipped the message.

Barry Pythagoras
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Posted: 8th May 2014 15:32 Edited at: 8th May 2014 15:56
Oh I see the code.. So that's what I need. Ok thanks!

I can't skip Anim8or it's the best. And I have already solved its export problem. And you have solved it too with that code.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 8th May 2014 21:20
Quote: "Oh I see the code.. So that's what I need. "


That's just the sort of thing I had in mind too.

@Chris Tate

I'm not sure if this bug has been fixed but at one point local variables in functions were not correctly initialised to zero so I would explicitly initialise x#, etc, before doing the summations just to be safe.



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Chris Tate
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Posted: 8th May 2014 21:44
Probably fixed now; the LOCAL statement initializes the x#, y# and z# variables to zero.

Green Gandalf
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Posted: 9th May 2014 01:25
Yes, I think you're right. I've got in the habit of initialising things like that just in case.



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chafari
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Posted: 9th May 2014 16:38 Edited at: 9th May 2014 17:19
Quote: " I have not tested it because it is just an illustration."


@Chris Tate

Not long ago, I made a fracture function. Now it works ok, but at the first attempt, all pieces that I got had its pivot copied from the main object.

I tried your vector solution to compare, but it gives wrong center. The function I made is casually like yours, but works in a different way. It compare maximun and minimun of every vertex position to give us an average of new x,y,z

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=208012&b=1



Cheers.

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Barry Pythagoras
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Posted: 9th May 2014 17:15
Thanks Chafari!

My game uses limb centres for almost everything.
chafari
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Posted: 9th May 2014 17:20
@Barry Pythagoras
You are welcome !

Cheers.

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 9th May 2014 23:27
Nice one!

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