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Folks may remember this thread. Created in realisation of how much I hated my job and me looking to explore what else I'm good at.

I've been working towards training myself up for an IT based job I'll enjoy and settled with going towards Web Development, as there seems to be a lot of a call of it in my area and I enjoy programming.

First step I decided was towards Microsoft Certification (MCTS, but I aim to progress to MCSD), granted this is just paper, but it's a filter for CV's.

Now that I've covered most of the content as well as stuff not covered in the certification exam, I figured I'd see how much of an interest I could pique from potential employers.

I've sent a few applications off this week and just received a reply from one asking to speak to me. Which is great, but I don't intend to balls up any opportunities that may face me. I've got some stuff I can show off, but don't have a big portfolio to show, yet.

I know there's a few folks already in developer roles or other IT based jobs, it's not actually anything I've ever tried going for. So I'm not sure what to expect or what employers typically like and typically don't like. So really & truly, I'll be interested in any advice.

The current job I've applied for is only a junior/graduate role, as expected as it's an entry thing. Only requirements listed:

- Some ASP.NET/C#/VB.Net experience
- Good SQL Server RDBMS experience
- Knowledge of CMS systems (Azure)

ASP.NET. close to finishing the course and using it for personal projects.
C#, used it for years as a hobby, though in a game dev context, but extremely familiar with its syntax and use it with ASP.NET anyway.
VB.NET, minimal experience, BASIC experience with DBPro, of course and it's not the difficult to translate code between C# and VB.NET

Good SQL Server RDBMS Experience. Not just from the perspective of using it via ASP code or the Entity Framework (Code First and Model First) but also from a coding perspective, not that SQL is difficult, even with regards to relational databases, the syntax is extremely straight forward.

Knowledge of CMS Systems. Azure is content I've still yet to cover in my course, but used various CMS over the years.


The degree is not specified as IT based, the fact they've contacted me suggests that it's not as important. Job is £18k - £25k depending on experience, I would value myself at the £18k end of the spectrum.


Anyhow, any input or advice or anecdotes, anything useful with the recruitment process will be appreciated. I have managed to balls-up job applications for stuff I really want due to a lack of insight. I was tripped up in one interview for a dream job I could have aced.

ASP.NET - make sure you understand the back end stuff. Application pools, how to configure a site, web.config etc. Also make sure you are comfortable using Markup rather than visual development. You rarely use a visual editor in commercial apps.

C#/VB.NET. these are surprisingly not usually interchangeable. Employers tend to want one or the other, unless they are transitioning. Saying that they are easily interchangeable (even though they are) doesn't go down well. Appreciate the differences between the two, be comfortable with both, but don't say they are comparable.

SQL Server - Make sure you can talk about security, this is a big thing, especially in web apps. Be aware of SQL injection and how to avoid it. Make sure you know about efficient SQL, and optimising your SQL calls through the correct use of foreign keys, and minimising calls to the database.

Make sure you can talk about good programming structure (MVC and/or UI/BL/DAL / tiered programming). You are of course in favour of programming standards and understand that absolute efficiency sometimes has to be forsaken for adhering to the company coding standards.

CMS - I would recommend reeling a few names off and be able to say what you have used them for, understand the general principles etc.

Finally don't undervalue yourself. If you say £18K, you may sound like a £15K person going for a £18K job. I would recommend pitching yourself midway so the hiring manager can feel like he's got a good deal when he knocks you down a bit. You can suggest that you're coming in lower as you realise you need to prove your worth to the company, and would hope for a review within 6-9 months.

You may be inexperienced commercially in this arena, but sell yourself as looking for something that's going to challenge you and progress your existing skills much faster than your current position, sell your accolades in other related areas to put yourself above any graduates with no commercial experience whatsoever.

I've interviewed people in the past, and recently been interviewed. Potential employers are likely to be looking for enthusiasm towards their role, they want you to like what they are proposing. You can't fake that bit, listen carefully, ask questions and make sure you really want it.

Cheers for the feedback.



Not an issue. I am actually more comfortable using markup than the visual approach - even with CSS, plus my preferred approach is MVC and I don't get the liberty of a visual editor. I have used Web.config to a degree, assigning roles, membership and updating/adding query strings for live databases.



Noted. I will brush up more on VB.NET. I know there are differences, but I have not found much difficulty when I have tried interchanging between the two.



I will ensure I properly understand the concepts and have something to demonstrate to that effect. For the current application, I get the feeling SQL is more important than the ASP.NET. But then they're a financial organisation, so this will be the crux of the issue. Admittedly I am more aware of security from an application side, like Windows and Forms authentication, depending on the application type - I know a certain level of security is dealt with via Web.config too and of course validation, use both client-side and server side validation and not expose security flaws as far HTML goes. Like, for example, with my current site to use a BBCode parser to deal with input and have the server interpret the data into raw HTML without the user being able to include raw HTML. Avoid silly mistakes like that, as tempting as it is to make life easy and use [ValidateInput(false)] in a Controller or alterations in web.config. I am aware of security exploits like that. You don't want somebody being able to submit a potentially malicious JavaScript to be interpreted by the server.


However, I am getting a Web Application and Desktop Application working for a project I'm doing (using MVC 4 and WinForms). One of the things I'm about to do is design a relational database for the various bits and pieces.

I figure it may be good practice if I were to do this purely using SQL syntax and then managing the databases using SQL Server Management Studio and point to a host. This means I can then show I can point my web.config to a live SQL database, so I can do direct SQL database queries and also use the entity framework model first approach to show I understand how to retrieve & update data too.



MVC will be easy to nip in the bud, because I find it such a joy to work with anyway. I can also talk about W3C standards and of course, respect their standards as you say. Sounds like working to a style sheet, whilst I've not had to work to the concept programmatically, but there's plenty of situations this applies to...heck, even my current role. There are many occasions where I sacrifice efficiency in respect of company policies and methods, even if I think it's stupid. To put it in a positive light, companies have their own standards to ensure quality control and scale-ability. A large business will need the means of ensuring consistency...though my experience in the job market so far suggests that it's something that only exists in an ideal world.



Should be easy. Joomla, Drupal, Wordpress, PHPBB, Enjin and I suppose it won't hurt to get Azure up and running this weekend as MS only charge for usage and do a free trial. So not as if I have to spend much moolah getting something going.



This is a fair point. Whilst, yes, I would do the job for less, but of course, that's not what this tells an employer, it's about how valuable you are to them. But that is a good way of approaching it.



I was thinking of redoing my CV and make it more of a skills based CV, my current one is qualification and experience focused, which doesn't necessarily help with an industry I lack experience.

But I think I may be able to sell my skills in that way. My current role is a call centre role, but I have *somehow* managed to sneak web dev in. It's technical & customer support role, so we have troubleshooting software and articles can be submitted in HTML but it's literally a mess, I've been working on offering something more efficient between calls. My boss likes what I'm doing, but I am in the process of passing it to his boss's boss. It's just something done with HTML, JavaScript and CSS that is scale-able, makes like easier for agents and even a monkey can update it. I don't know if that's a good angle to work from?




Absolutely. I don't think this is the bit I'd mess up on, because it is genuine. I am paying for my training off of my own back and I love it. In fact, one of the reasons I love it is because there's always a new challenge it's mentally stimulating and as it's fast changing industry, it's not as if once I am an adept that the challenges cease and things become stagnant. Stagnation would bore me.


Anyhow, cheers for the insight, useful to have a bit of context. I am going to spend the rest of the weekend just in preparation, even if they turn around and say, "no can do bud", I should really use it as a momentum to push these applications, as well as complete my studies. Even if I find I'm not ready for some of these roles.

Sounds like you're ready for the interview

Good luck with it, let us know how you get on.

That's encouraging to hear at least.

I called them up during my lunch break, they seemed pleased by my CV, but they said they were originally looking for 3 candidates, managed to pick up 2 and have now decided to see how they get on, but the 3rd spot may reopen in a couple of weeks.

So, whilst I didn't get the result I wanted, but it was at least positive and potential exists they need a spot filled. They seemed fond that my current role is a support-based role, but then I have to do a lot of troubleshooting and problem solving in my role, so maybe I should sell that more.

So maybe it's worth me keep applying whilst I'm working through my remaining course material - save missing opportunities. I find it optimistic that in my first week of applying, I only sent off 3 applications and one of them comes back with interest.

As long as you can speak the lingo and you have examples to back you up of what you've done. Then you should be fine.

Also research the company you are interviewing with and tell them why you would be a good fit for them.

Good luck! Just know that the fact they are interviewing you means they view you as a potential person for that job. Just be yourself and show them they made the right choice.

EDIT: Oops... sorry, only just realised your last post... brain fart.

Cheers.

Well I'll keep trying. I will have my own project up and running online properly soon and will plaster it onto my CV's, so maybe I'll ask for some feedback. It's all MVC3 in VS2010 and I went code first for user accounts and model first for everything else, just to show I have an understanding of the Entity Framework and SQL Queries on top of everything else. At the moment, I am figuring out an annoying bug, but they're there to help me learn. The site is in theory operational, but my bug is involving userroles, works in the test environment and on my IIS, but doesn't on the host server. Great I can get the application to work brilliantly, it's just for me to get it working as desire, I would need to introduce a security flaw.

But I suppose once I figure it out, I'll make it a selling point.