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Geek Culture / I hate Steam

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wattywatts
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Location: Michigan
Posted: 18th Jun 2014 20:58 Edited at: 18th Jun 2014 20:59
Grr

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Kezzla
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Location: Where beer does flow and men chunder
Posted: 18th Jun 2014 22:43
Mate!!! That is so evil... to be robbed of Skyrim... I am so in your *pre-mod edit* corner.

As a steam member, What can I do to help? This is class action material.

Let us end Bureaucratic stupidity!

To Err is Human...
To Arr is Pirate!
wattywatts
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Posted: 18th Jun 2014 22:51
Yeah you're right, how pompous am I, that I wanted to be able to play the game sitting on my shelf, right? I mean, what makes me think I should be able to do that?

In all seriousness, it isn't that I can't play it, it's that they had me go through the motions and then recanted.
Kezzla
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Posted: 18th Jun 2014 23:33
Mate, I was angry enough with Bethestar, I saved up and paid for their game, only to suffer an update which cost me more in data than the original game outright cost!!!

A 4 gig update was a joke. To not let you update your user settings even worse.

We are their buyers, their clients, their users... get a bloody grip guys! This is very wrong.

To be clear, I am not taking the proverbial...

This sort of thing bothers me greatly.

let us and our numbers fix it.

To Err is Human...
To Arr is Pirate!
Seppuku Arts
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Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 18th Jun 2014 23:53 Edited at: 19th Jun 2014 00:30
I will speak an insider of customer services, not only working in a customer services center in having to deal with so many others. Because there's such a bulk of customers, in order to provide efficiency they will work to what's called an 'SLA' or a service level agreement. This can often mean you won't always get the same person and because customer services isn't exactly a high paid job, you're not getting the best of the best, you're not necessarily going to end up with somebody on the ball and training quite frequently isn't that brilliant either.

Therefore the service you get can be inconsistent and you may be unlucky and get the guy who is good enough to keep his job or is able to look good when it comes targets and scores, but not necessarily on the ball service wise. But at the same time, you can end up with the well experienced guy with a decent brain between his/her ears.

Customer services as a result can be frustrating. But because I know how call centers work, I know when having to call other call centers at work, I know how to get what I need. If I get a bad agent, I try again. I won't use any of the people I deal with at work as an example, because it would be inappropriate, but I can use a recent example of customer service I experienced. I use a host called Heart Internet, I was having a problem, the guy I got was extremely knowledgeable on my issues, because I was going through some fairly technical stuff and he nailed it - I was impressed. But the last reply I got was from an agent who clearly didn't understand the issue and completely got it wrong, but I already had enough to figure it out, so I just thank him and closed my ticket off. If I needed further assistance, I may have requested assistance from the original agent, reopened my ticket or open up something like a web chat or make a phone call to ensure I keep the same person.

It is possible the guy I had finished work for the day or was on break or had something else to deal with. And I can think of my own supervisors saying to us at work, "that email is about to go out of SLA, could you take a look at that". I may have gotten the guy who knows a lot about technologies like My SQL and PHP but little about ASP.NET. People typically want a quick service, but it can sometimes affect quality - customer service center have to find the middle somewhere.

I can see your guy is labelled as "Support Tech", my suspicion is these are two different guys. Both having different understanding of company policy and processes. Don't get *why* they would ask you to write it down, but then I have dealt with idiots in my line of work, so it doesn't surprise me too much (fortunately, it's not as bad in our office - we are very good at supporting each other). I can understand the need to ask for proof, as we sometimes ask for it in dealing with customer cases - not to accuse people of being dishonest, but to cover our own backs should be people be dishonest. But we'd consider something hand written to be suspicious more than anything (why not just take a picture of the code on the case?). But this wouldn't be the first time I've heard of people misunderstanding policy and procedures. I can list a few names of call centers I've dealt with off the bat for it.

Best course of action? Would it be to go the legal route? Citizens advice bureau? Watchdog (or whatever you have)? Trading Standards? Bad customer service isn't illegal and it is possible there's something in the terms and conditions you've agreed to and possibly something you've not read that covers their back. Unless it is determined that Valve are breaking the law, chances are they won't get involved.

Instead, try again, get a different agent, if you find you don't have success, try requesting an escalation to a senior - like a line manager or supervisor, usually they tend to be more consistent. Getting irate or even making threats (like in the ball park of Trading Standards) is more likely to make it more difficult for you. Suppose it depends, but I think the typical mentality of a person working in customer services is not, "we have wronged this person and we will do all we can to please them" or "they're our customers, therefore we have a duty to fulfill", though that is the typical expectation, but they're most likely people who don't want to be there, who don't like their job and aren't necessarily feeling particularly good will do the guy trying to make their day harder. Your typical customer services agent hates their job. Also, just because you've paid for something doesn't suddenly mean you're entitled to be given an A-grade service and what they owe you is the terms you've agreed in purchase - but few people know what they agree to because they are selectively blind to terms & conditions and like to click "yes" to the box that says "do you agree?". Even if you pay a lot of money, you might have invested that money for a product, but not a service.

I don't get the mentality of "I paid them, they owe me" because yes, you've given them some of your hard earned cash, but they've also given you something in exchange. All they owe is what was agreed. If folks have a problem, they need to read their agreements, granted, it's time consuming, hence I accept the consequences if I don't get my own way over something I didn't read. If I'm paying a lot of money, *then* I will look me deeply into the terms of my guaranty...heck, I read my guaranty before buying my PC. But I don't read any of my Steam ones, to be fair, I'm prepared to take the risk.


Maybe try their complaints procedure, I know for where I work complaints are handled by a completely different group of people.


I know it's frustrating and know it's bureaucracy, but it's the society we've made for ourselves. We want quick and efficient service with minimum cost to ourselves. You want a company to invest more in their customer services, you will not see the money paying for it coming out of profits, but it will come from the price tag. It's why when it comes to the 'Apple is too expensive for the technology' debate, I will throw in the line that whilst it's not perfect, they do invest more in their customer services.

wattywatts
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Posted: 19th Jun 2014 00:08
That's a pretty comprehensive reply and I appreciate it. I'll try asking for a manager if I don't get a satisfactory answer.

If it was just a digital download I probably wouldn't care, but seeing the box on my shelf and knowing I may as well burn it at present for all the good it does me is a bit frustrating.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 19th Jun 2014 00:33 Edited at: 19th Jun 2014 00:36
No worries.

I misread the original message on the Steam guy. But yeah, seems to make sense the asked you to write the ticket number on as evidence.

I suspect the first guy knows what policies and procedures are and the second guy didn't have much of a clue or possibly didn't read things properly, perhaps he thought the query was about transferring codes across accounts and hadn't considered the extra circumstances and so on. But with the anonymity, it sounds like one guy screwing with you.

Dar13
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Posted: 19th Jun 2014 00:34
Steam is very notorious for not backing down on support issues such as these. Especially when it comes to these like VAC bans and refunds. You only get one refund on Steam and then they won't give you any more.

@wattywatts
Try installing Skyrim outside of steam and using the key that way. Maybe the key will work and then you can add it back in using the 'Add Existing Game'(or whatever variant on that phrase it is) option.

Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 19th Jun 2014 05:31
Could you also contact Bethesda Softworks about this and see if they could give you a new key that you could use to register?

Definitely worth checking that out!


Come check out my new website!
Ortu
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Posted: 19th Jun 2014 07:13
You may have better luck in attempting to recover access to the original account. There should be other info on file besides the email address to verifying identity so customer service may be more able to link the account to a new email than to transfer the game key

nonZero
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Posted: 19th Jun 2014 22:03
Blame copyright-protection. Miss the days when you put a cartridge in your Famicom, powered on and played.

"... hands are ruined by repetitive stroking..." -- MrValentine
"I was in nASA before it was cool" -- Original nASA Members (nonZero, DJD and TheComet)
MrValentine
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Playing: FFVII
Posted: 19th Jun 2014 23:05
Quote: "Miss the days when you put a cartridge in your Famicom, powered on and played."


After a quick blow... on the cartridge...

Quote: "Could you also contact Bethesda Softworks about this and see if they could give you a new key that you could use to register?"


I agree, worth a shot if bickering with Valve gets you nowhere...

Sepp is on the ball!

wattywatts
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Posted: 19th Jun 2014 23:20
@ nonZero that's why I collect cartridge based games

I received a nice reply from Bethesda, they basically said there was nothing they could do, "but I would recommend pressing them [Steam] again and seeing if there's anything further that they can accomplish."
Matty H
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Posted: 20th Jun 2014 17:22
Tell Steam you are taking your story to any number of online gaming sites, bad publicity is never welcome.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 20th Jun 2014 19:23
^Very very rarely works. We get a lot of customers say that when they don't get their own way. Means very little, the percentage of customers who are unhappy is quite small and their realm of influence is quite tiny.

Think how many people are going to care, for a start, and even then if people do, you"re still only influencing a small percentage.

I'm certainly not going to take a stand, I think my advice is likely the best route, customer service agents aren't swayed by threats because they get them all the time, no, by trying to put their back up, you're reducing the chances of them admitting fault and more likely to get them to stick to their guns. Persistence, not anger is your best bet. Not a guarantee, but boosts your chances.

MrValentine
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Posted: 20th Jun 2014 20:25 Edited at: 20th Jun 2014 20:26
Just post something like... EDIT. On Twitter I mean

#VALVE #BADSUPPORT Your support ruined my game disk

Might get their attention and some decent person in the team might pull some strings...

nonZero
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Posted: 20th Jun 2014 20:33
Quote: "@ nonZero that's why I collect cartridge based games"

+10 awesome points!

"... hands are ruined by repetitive stroking..." -- MrValentine
"I was in nASA before it was cool" -- Original nASA Members (nonZero, DJD and TheComet)
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 21st Jun 2014 01:48 Edited at: 21st Jun 2014 01:53
Quote: "#VALVE #BADSUPPORT Your support ruined my game disk

Might get their attention and some decent person in the team might pull some strings..."


I would say even that's unlikely. Only way to get bad publicity is if something goes viral or if somebody with a big influence makes the bad publicity. I've had people threaten me with trading standards, watchdog, the ombudsman, citizen's advice bureau, blogs, YouTube, Facebook, the PTA, internet forums, their large circle of friends, Twitter, the news, Which magazine and so on. What effect does it have? None really. We stick to policy and we stick to our guns. Yes, we will get unhappy and disgruntled customers, but when you have a massive customer base it's impossible to make money and please everyone. This means a part of my job is to deal with the disgruntled ones.

Of course, there are cases where people are wronged - mistakes happen, some people don't do their job properly and other variables come into play, occasions like that, if they cannot be handled within the powers or ability of customer services agents, find the problems are best escalated.


However, I feel this is relevant to this discussion. A facetious rant about customer services by yours truly.

http://obscurerepublic.com/top-tips-for-wannabe-angry-customers/

Phaelax
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Posted: 21st Jun 2014 01:53
So if you lose your email, you lose access to games you bought? Wow, just another reason why I've said since day one that Steam is useless dribble.

MrValentine
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Posted: 21st Jun 2014 03:09
Since Steams launch, I purchased 15 Games maybe over the years...

Last week alone I bought over 50 games [yes over £100 $160] from gog.com...

Best solution to this, drop it and buy it elsewhere... I cut my losses when appropriate as prolonging a pointless debacle is well, pointless...

But I can afford to do that... Not always, but I have my principles, and I stick by them...

Hope you find a resolve soon, don't waste too much time over this however, it becomes detrimental at some point...

Kezzla
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Posted: 21st Jun 2014 04:32
@sepp - Thought you might like to know that Avira Antivir throws up a virus warning when accessing your link


To Err is Human...
To Arr is Pirate!
Matty H
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2014 13:59 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2014 14:07
I think Mr Valentine hit the nail on the head, cut your losses and never use them again.

I will also not use steam again, this thread and a couple of other things I have heard have convinced me that I can do without them.


EDIT: Before you give up you may want to ask to speak to a supervisor, sometimes they have more of an ability to help you out. It worked with me when Norton give me the wrong product and I only noticed when I tried to add a new computer to the account, the guy on the phone said there was nothing he could do, I asked for the supervisor and he give me the correct product and extended my subscription to make it a year from that date, adding about 4 months for free.

So as much as people may see how sucky Steam are on this thread, also know how good Norton can be(if you speak to the right person)

Chris Tate
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2014 21:21
Quote: "However, I feel this is relevant to this discussion. A facetious rant about customer services by yours truly.

http://obscurerepublic.com/top-tips-for-wannabe-angry-customers/"


I think I will take your advice on board, I want to compete in the next angry customer Olympics.

wattywatts
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2014 21:53 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2014 22:27
And they closed the question on me after regurgitating the same "we don't transfer games" bit.
I'm not really sure there's even a point in opening a new case

@MrValentine - gog is awesome, if I ever finish a game that I want to publish I'd go with them over steam in a heartbeat. Unfortunately it seems like most of the newer PC games are only available on Steam.

edited
Dar13
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2014 22:03
Who's begging for it? Steam?

All the DRM is determined by the developer. Steam just provides a storefront for games, they do not require Steamworks DRM integration whatsoever. Steam probably is not allowed to transfer games from one account to another (except via gift) due to a licensing agreement with a game publisher.

@wattywatts
Sending you a PM in an effort to reduce piracy.

wattywatts
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2014 22:13 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2014 22:29
Actually nevermind, edited both posts so this thread doesn't get locked. Just a little DRM/exe patching stuff, which I acknowledge is a hot topic and I shouldn't have posted on this forum.
Quik
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2014 23:11
Quote: " I shouldn't have brought it up"

that
however, I still believe it goes against the modifying of the game laws? Unless those kinds of laws are just "to scare people" rumors...



Whose eyes are those eyes?
nonZero
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2014 00:05
Whether or not something is fair is irrelevant because by buying into it, you agree to the terms. It may suck, but life was never fair to begin with. So it boils down to you, your own choices and whether you fight back (legally or illegally) or whether you walk away. Whichever choice you make, ensure you can accept the consequences. That's life.

"I was in nASA before it was cool" -- Original nASA Members (nonZero, DJD and TheComet)

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