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Geek Culture / My game on Indiegogo

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wattywatts
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Posted: 5th Aug 2014 03:55 Edited at: 5th Aug 2014 03:56
And I'd like to get your opinion on it. Does the video look alright? Did I explain the game clearly enough?

PS - not fishing for sales, just curious how it looks to others.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/max-vs-mars/x/8349021
Jeku
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Posted: 5th Aug 2014 10:53
The video looks alright, but the game itself doesn't look very fun from the video that you show. Your claims are pretty bold: "It's meant to blend 2d and 3d visuals in a way not seen before."

Senior Developer - CBS Interactive Music Group
MrValentine
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Posted: 5th Aug 2014 11:03
I am just curious what you used for your 3D modelling of the robot...

Libervurto
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Posted: 8th Aug 2014 00:05
Page is not public?

Formerly OBese87.
wattywatts
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Posted: 8th Aug 2014 00:11
I took it down.
Van B
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Posted: 8th Aug 2014 15:13
I did look at it, but never commented as I just didn't think there was enough content to comment on...

The only screenshot you showed was fairly lackluster to be honest, I don't think it's enough to get the support you need.

I would suggest concentrating on the games 'personality' get some good drawings or renders of your main character, show the game that you want it to be, not the WIP game that it is. Also try not to make bold claims unless they are smothered in humor - people don't care if it's a mix of 2D and 3D, they'll see that right away from the screenshots - they want to know how interesting the actual game is.

I think 1 group of indies that's doing it just right is our old pals Dimsdale and Kreosote - they have an awesome comic artist and the humor and personality they put into their games is second to none. They always have a nice image that enforces the sense of humor. It's really the sort of thing that people want to see from indie devs these days...

https://www.facebook.com/GetFiquette

I am the one who knocks...
Quik
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Posted: 8th Aug 2014 21:45
Quote: "I would suggest concentrating on the games 'personality' get some good drawings or renders of your main character, show the game that you want it to be, not the WIP game that it is. "

I agree, and I dont agree.
I feel like if you don't got anything to show; Gameplay or anything, then you're not ready to be crowd funded; Because you have yet to proove that you can actually accomplish anything.
I personally would NEVER back a title that hasnt got anything to show for it outside of drawings.
Showing a visual aspect and really conveying what you want the final product is to be is important, don't get me wrong. But showing that you got what it takes to finish it is JUST as important, thus some gameplay that (although somewhat roughly) shows what you want it to be like is important.

Well, unless you got a catalog of games you've previously made that is.



Whose eyes are those eyes?
The Zoq2
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Posted: 9th Aug 2014 04:06
I agree with quick, I am pretty tired of all the games on kickstarter that only showcase some concept art and ideas. If im going to back a game, I want to see some form of gameplay or atleast ingame renders. It doesn't have to be final or perfect but it should be enough to show that you have something started and that you are able to finish something.

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
BiggAdd
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Posted: 10th Aug 2014 05:33 Edited at: 10th Aug 2014 05:40
I think people who crowdfund games these days on kickstarter or indiegogo are getting a little more wary.

I mean just recently "Yogventures", which raised over $500,000 to develop a Yogscast themed minecraft "clone" shut down after ~3 years of development. They were an unknown developer with no prior experience and the development and ultimate failure of the project was down to that.

So people these days are wary of backing projects with little progress to show, especially from new developers.

Even Double Fine managed to balls up their development of "Broken Age", raising over $3,000,000 and then running out of money half way through. From what I've heard (I own the game, but not yet played it), what they have created so far is very good. But if an established game development studio can mis-manage project funds to such an extent, what chance does a new developer have?

There are too many examples these days of developers running out of money, not completing or even starting development, changing the game half way through from the original philosophy etc etc.

You really need to instill trust with people if you want them to take a risk by preordering your work in progress. I think a playable proof of concept is a must for any video game kickstarter.

I purchased minecraft back when it was first released as an alpha (which was the first time I had ever purchased a game that wasn't finished), but I only did so after playing the classic mode a bit.

If I am able to play or see detailed footage of a game, then that will make me want to purchase said game in an unfinished state.

Its also worth mentioning whilst we are talking about trust being completely destroyed in the video game community. Its not just kickstarter or indiegogo campaigns that are doing it, its big publishers and developers these days too.
You just have to look at the early E3 game demos of watchdogs and compare the graphics on those to the released PC version of the game. Another example would be the early development footage seen for the game "Spore", what a mess that turned into!

If I can't trust a big development house like Ubisoft or EA, you have to ask yourself what you can show me that makes me trust you?

EDIT:
Another point to mention is that launching straight into a kickstarter/indiegogo campaign is a mistake. You need to generate buzz around your project first before you seek funding. Set up a website, facebook page, twitter etc and start growing your following before you strike with a kickstarter. Release early playable alphas to your community prior to asking for money and then unleash the funding beast.
That way you already know if there is interest in your project before looking for funding. Also you have gathered a loyal army of subjects who will do their best to spread the word to their friends in order to see your project succeed.

wattywatts
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Posted: 10th Aug 2014 06:54
Quote: "Set up a website, facebook page, twitter etc and start growing your following before you strike with a kickstarter. Release early playable alphas to your community prior to asking for money and then unleash the funding beast."


Max VS Mars was in development for about a year, there's info online and a playable demo, unfortunately it seems I was just making it for myself since I've managed to attract absolutely no one into following it on indiedb.
Not that making money is what interests me when it comes to making games, but if I'm going to put that much time into anything I'd like to be able to get paid for my effort. The campaign was a last ditch effort to see if anyone was interested; sadly it seems no one was and Jeku put into words what most people probably thought about it:
Quote: "the game itself doesn't look very fun"
.
As unfortunate as that seems to me, I think it's important to reflect on.
I'll probably wait for a team to come along who needs an artist or musician before starting anything new, which could be an advantage as I'm not bound to any particular programming language. Regardless, it sucks when you finally force the realization that something you thought was so cool isn't palatable to the masses.
Jeku
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Posted: 11th Aug 2014 03:39
You took my words out of context. The game doesn't look very fun from the videos, because you are doing the same moves again and again and again. I can't say whether the game itself is fun or not.

Senior Developer - CBS Interactive Music Group
wattywatts
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Posted: 11th Aug 2014 04:30
Ah well I didn't take it as an insult regardless.
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Posted: 13th Aug 2014 13:28
It is a risk to give money to complete stranger, I generally stick with "buyer beware" and only pledge what I can afford to lose.

Out of the five projects I've backed, two have gone well, I'm a little disappointed with the way TGC have run the AppGameKit V2 project but I'm happy with the current rate of progress (and I did get a copy of V1 which was worth it all by itself), the forth project has never had any real updates in 18 months, whilst the fifth had a complete meltdown.

I think it's a shame that a few bad creators ruin it for everyone else but it doesn't put me off.

Quote: "unfortunately it seems I was just making it for myself since I've managed to attract absolutely no one into following it on indiedb"


What did you expect? I don't mean that in a harsh way but from what I can tell, you've not really interacted with the community there. You've posted no comments, not made friends and not left any reviews so I'm not entirely sure what you were hoping for.

You're not the only one though, there doesn't seem to be any kind of TGC community on IndieDB and just as bad as I've not really connected with the community there either (except for one random Swedish dude who wanted to make a video of one of my games) but I never really expected much out of just uploading my games their, without any kind of "marketing".

However, in the spirit of community I have sent you a friend request and I now have an xbox controller so will have a go at playing the game later.

Van B
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Posted: 13th Aug 2014 13:54
Mine and Cliff.M's dungeon crawler is on IndieDB, and although it isn't exactly huge there, a couple of vbloggers have featured it - that wouldn't have happened without IndieDB. It's worth contributing on that site, it's really a good way to get your game noticed but you have to give them something to chew on, some real gameplay and content for them to warrant making a video.

For me, there is nothing cooler than having someone feature your game as something to watch for. Now, if I can just release Cliff from the grasp of those robots and 3D printers, we can get her finished

I am the one who knocks...
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Posted: 13th Aug 2014 14:58 Edited at: 13th Aug 2014 18:32
Yes, absolutely putting your game where people can see it is always a good start, you're bound to get someone interest, but, as you said, you need to give something for people to chew on which I thnk you and Cliff have done (which is why I put "marketing" in quotations as a loose term for "getting people interested"). Also, Eat, Drink, Slay is also a good looking, good quality game which always helps.

Incidentally, I don't know if anyone else reads the games section of the Metro website but every so often I'll write in with a plug for TGC products and people's games.

http://metro.co.uk/2014/03/26/games-inbox-facebook-vs-oculus-vr-ps-vita-indie-and-dark-souls-ii-4679651/

Scroll down to the bit entitled "BASIC advice".

wattywatts
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Posted: 13th Aug 2014 17:28
I was hoping a crowd funding campaign would be the marketing. I'm the first admit that getting the word out seems to be an illusive concept for me.
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Posted: 13th Aug 2014 18:30
Yes, I suppose that makes a certain amount of sense. I didn't get to see your indiegogo page so I can't comment about that but pulling it down 2 days after you announce it here isn't going to help in terms of getting noticed.

But I wouldn't get too disheartened. I think getting the word out is incredibly difficult and I don't think there's much rhyme or reason as to which projects get funded or the amount of funding they get. Some projects seems to spring into life and others just fall way, way short of their goal.

Are you going to relaunch the project?

wattywatts
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Posted: 14th Aug 2014 00:04
Quote: "Are you going to relaunch the project?"


I will if I can spice it up somehow. I need a level that plays to the graphical strengths like the real time lighting and light scattering, probably a forest stage with trees in the background or something.
I need to add some more moves or something as well.. probably.. I'm not sure. The main problem really is that I like it the way it is so I don't know how to fix it.
MrValentine
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Posted: 14th Aug 2014 00:09
Add Lava explosions, Wind Jets that blow the player around with visual cues, Rain, Storms, Tree leaves blowing around, add depth...

Things that fall in the way, buildings that collapse, cars that are pushed at the player, cars that explode, lamp posts that fall down, add dynamism...

Music that matches the gameplay, music that is catchy, music that people want to buy on iTunes etc., music with a name to them, add rhythm...

Avatar Image with health bars, boost kits, higher jump power up, flame jets, fire, water, snow, clouds that electrocute the player, add anarchy and humour...

/Brainstorming

wattywatts
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Posted: 14th Aug 2014 01:09
Those are some great ideas MrValentine!
MrValentine
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Posted: 14th Aug 2014 15:44



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Posted: 15th Aug 2014 12:55
I had a play of this yesterday and this is what I think:

because you don't have a separate website:
- bulk up and jazz up your indieDB profile page, if you're into art then add some general game art.
- maybe think about keeping a blog on indiedb.
- add a proper summary to the IndieDB page of Max vs Mars, with a basic description of the game. At the moment it's all buried in the news updates.

the download
- add a readme file with the download to include:
-- your name and contact email address (seems like a polite thing to do if you want people to run a exe from what is basically a unknown source).
-- description of game
-- controls (there is nothing on the indiedb page or the download that tells people how to play the game)
-- maybe something about the future development of the game
-- maybe include a link to the wip thread and indiedb page (there's no guarantee that the player would have gotten it from either indeidb or the tgc forums).

the game
add a proper menu for the start of the game to include:
- credits
- controls (again, there is nothing to tell the player how to play this game)
- the basic objective / summary of the game

I thought the limited move set was actually alright, I don't think you really need to add to this. I thought the animation for the punch and getting hit felt a bit stilted, you might want to have a look at exaggerating the animation.

There needs to be more going on in the level, more thing to jump over, some different enemy types. I think MrValentine's ideas are pretty good, maybe add an alien with a gun and some crates to jump over.

I'm not particularly fond of the current art style for the level. I like the background (although I don't think the style for flying sauces fits the rest of the game). The buildings in the foreground are just dull and dour. It feels like you might have been going for a dark, moody roof top setting but I'm not sure, whatever the mood you were going for I don't think you've pulled it off.

I did like the art style for the characters, although the orange jump suited aliens felt a little unimaginative. I did really like the look of the robot at the end of the level.

The difficult bit to know is whether it would be better to enhance and finish the current level. This would probably be the quickest thing to do. What ever you do I think having a completed single level, including end of level boss battle, would probably help a lot.

Like BigAdd said, I think people are a lot more wary of backing these kinds of projects and what you need to do is persaude people that it's worth giving you money, that you can actually finish making the game and that the game itself might actually be good.

I think something that counts against you for any kind of crowd funding is that you don't have any finished games nor have you worked on any finished games. This might not be a problem but it might mean that you need to work extra hard to get people interested.

One other thing that you may want to consider is making the game using a different engine so you can go multiformat. I think the game could be made to work using AppGameKit, the animation would be simple enough to do in code. SoftMotion3D has also put together some animation commands that you could use.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=211339&b=41

The only think I wouldn't know how to do is the water shader, but that's more because I'm not that good with shaders, and you might need to tweak the controls for touch screen (say double tap for the harder punch). I'm not saying you should do this, swapping engines half way through is not something I'd generally recommend, but it might be something to think about.

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