Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / Why is the forum dying?

Author
Message
Libervurto
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Jun 2006
Location: On Toast
Posted: 26th Aug 2014 10:34
We have known for some time that the forum is becoming less and less active, I was an active resident of the DBC board for many years so I have witnessed its decay from a once vibrant community to only getting one or two posts a month. I fear the same fate is close at hand for the DBP board. It is sad because I have learned a lot from the many talented people in this community and hopefully I have given something back as well. I wouldn't want everything we have achieved here to be forgotten.

But why is this happening? Where is everyone going? Is the lack of updates and bug fixes for DBP the cause? Is there some new programming software that is pulling people away from DB?

Is there any hope for DB? What are TGC's plans for it? Is anyone going to maintain an open source/libre fork of the released source code?

Formerly OBese87.
Matty H
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Oct 2008
Location: England
Posted: 26th Aug 2014 11:31
I'm on the AppGameKit board, although before that it was DarkGDK so the DBPro board is not missing me too much. I suspect some people from DBPro are also now using AGK.

Also, FPSC Reloaded has it's own forums so that has probably contributed also.

TheComet
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Oct 2007
Location: I`m under ur bridge eating ur goatz.
Posted: 26th Aug 2014 11:38 Edited at: 27th Aug 2014 05:07
A lot of people I know who used to be active TGC users have moved on to C++ or Unity. Some of them are active in The Posting Competition (but not for long, click signature)

R.I.P.
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 26th Aug 2014 12:27
I haven't used DBP in ages. The AppGameKit boards are quite active. I frequent both the main and WIP boards. I find AppGameKit very interesting because it supports multiple platforms. My game will be showcased at PAX this weekend by Ouya, and that wouldn't be possible without Android support.

The Zoq2
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Nov 2009
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Posted: 26th Aug 2014 14:38
I personally moved from DBP (Where I wasn't really active) to AppGameKit when that came out. I have since stopped using AppGameKit and usualy only go in this board.

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
bitJericho
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 27th Aug 2014 05:04
I think the problem is TGC has decided not to advance the language any further, instead keeping it stuck in the past. FPSC will probably get TGC by for quite a while, but they have a separate board for some reason.

Dar13
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th May 2008
Location: Microsoft VisualStudio 2010 Professional
Posted: 27th Aug 2014 06:06
IMHO, DBPro is a dead language. There's been no updates for a long time AFAIK, and the bugs only get worse and more prevalent as the operating systems change underneath it.

They've abandoned DBPro, and AppGameKit doesn't quite fill the same niche and as such doesn't attract that same type of developer. And the community is splintered due to the separation of the FPSC Reloaded forum being on an entirely different site.

As for me, I've moved entirely into more general purpose programming languages such as C, C++, Java, and Python. TGC doesn't have any products for those languages, so I rarely have anything to discuss here as it would be against the AUP(except in boards like GC and Programming Talk).

wattywatts
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th May 2009
Location: Michigan
Posted: 27th Aug 2014 06:17
I prefer to think of it like, the answers to the questions asked over the years have been so concise that new users don't need to ask so many questions.
It is sad though. I'm guessing TGC is making more money with products other than DBP and can't justify the time it would take to update it. That said, I'm playing around with Windows 8 and all my stuff runs fine, no problems encountered yet.

@bitJericho Sorry to say, from what I've seen of reloaded it isn't anywhere near what I've seen people accomplish in DBP graphically.
Quik
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Jul 2008
Location: Equestria!
Posted: 27th Aug 2014 08:36
Well... I'm here to keep things lively ^^ No but srsly, it's very sad indeed - the 3d boards barely even has people nowadays, with the occational "what are you working on?" bump thread
and topics here are fading away - although at a slower pace.



Whose eyes are those eyes?
Kezzla
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Aug 2008
Location: Where beer does flow and men chunder
Posted: 27th Aug 2014 08:56
I don't get the same time to program anymore, my job keeps me really busy. Mostly my programming has been VBA in an access database I am making for work. Dry stuff but it makes my life much much easier.

I drop by here from time to time still to see what is going on.
If I get a chunk of time I would like to make an AppGameKit game, when they eventually get animation support it will be quite nifty.

I haven't done any DBPro programming almost all year.

To Err is Human...
To Arr is Pirate!
Ortu
DBPro Master
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 27th Aug 2014 10:39 Edited at: 27th Aug 2014 11:09
I've thought about this from time to time myself, honestly think it is a complex combination of factors with no one over-arching culprit to blame.

This may sound gloomier than I mean it to be, and while there are certainly positives to balance these things, this is a thread about problems, so here are the problems as I see them, in as honest and objective an opinion as I can give.

TGC problems:

Focus split into too many directions. - DBP, GDK, AppGameKit, FPSCR, that cloud thing that never even took off. - While each fills a different niche for different people, splitting the time of a (very) small team across so many projects means that each lacks the kind of attention and updates required to keep up with the pace of the general gaming industry.

Community population divided. - FPSCR has completely separate boards, while FPSC users didn't have a huge presence in the other language boards, their loss is clearly felt in the common areas like modeling and general chat.

Lack of engagement with community. - The newsletter has become sporadic, It's about to be september, the last issue was what.. may? and the one before that? Even when it's out, its all about FPSCR, maybe a quick nod to AGK... Many of the Mods have grown as quiet and absent as many of the members. How many official contests, challenges, or events have there been in the last year and a half? How many of those just faded away with no official results ever being announced?

Lack of exposure / Inability to draw in new members - Each new product they come out with is generally marketed to existing users of a previous product. DBP -> AppGameKit, FPSC -> FPSCR. This does not bring in new blood and some old users will inevitably not move to the new product, such people will stick around for a time, but many will leave when progress stops on the old product. No effort seems to be made to reach out and bring in new people. It feels like TGC is fighting a defensive war of slow retreat and is unwilling or unable to mount more than a half hearted offensive push to reclaim lost ground.

Member problems:

Experienced users move on - This is to be expected, it would not normally be a -problem- per se, but when paired with "Inability to draw in new members" above, it piles on much worse than it otherwise would. most of the old time members have moved to more powerful / more standard languages. C++, C#, Java, Python. Unity draws a lot of people, experienced and new comers alike. It's free, you can get good looking graphics without a lot of effort, it's an attractive package. It is the nature of people to continue to move forward and advance themselves, this is a good thing, but many of these people used to feature large in the lifeblood of this community and their absence is felt.

Lack of new and engaging game projects - Few new WIPs are started, old WIPs go un-updated for long periods of time. (I must commend Chris Tate for his long running and consistent efforts) Many WIPs are for technical plugins and tools, and while these things are great, and often interesting, they are not games. Games are why we are here. The dream of the game is what draws people in. If no games are being made, then the tools go unused. People often mention projects they are working on in private, but for one reason or another, never share or post it. I'm as guilty of this as anyone

Low percentage of completed WIPs to Games - Particularly in large scale attention-grabbing projects. No real surprise here, and pretty common to any game developement forum, but everytime a project is dropped or abandoned or ported to another language, it is a hit to general morale and interest. This can be countered by new projects going up, but... ^^^

Do it yourself. All of it. From ground 0. everytime. - Ok a bit of exaggeration, I'll admit, but in general, we are some of the most stubborn DIY-ers I've ever come across. This one is partly TGC, partly member at fault. Most of us have little to no interest in working on someone else's project as we are each caught up in our own, and then combine that with the strict rules on taboo team requests and we have pretty much stiffled the chance for collaboration. When the rare team does form privately, the team members often have no experience in working as a team and the collaboration almost always falls apart within a few months, if that. I've also always wondered why there has never been more collaboration between the programmers and the artists. I still don't know, but I think that lack is a big reason why there are almost no artists left. 2d has always been fairly quiet, but the 3d board was once one of the more active places in these forums with a lot of talented people posting daily. That board is now silent. I can't help but feel that it was a vast and untapped resource that is probably lost for good now.

DBPro cant do this, such and such is broken - It is easier to give up and move on to something else, but for whatever problem or shortcoming, there is almost always a work around. Should we have to bother with work-arounds? in an ideal world no, but you are going to hit bugs and problems in anything you do. Whether it is with a core language or a third party library, this is honestly not unique to DBpro. Programming is problem solving, plain and simple. DBPro certainly has problems, but there are a lot of clever users with a lot of experience in solving them. Don't use this as an excuse in and of itself. If you want to learn another language, thats great! but I just don't believe that there are deal-breaker problems with DBpro which makes it -incapable- of completing a project.

Not much to read, not much to say - Again I'm guilty on this. The less active the boards are, the less active I am on them. I don't generally start conversations, but do enjoy contributing to them. if there are not many conversations going on, then I don't have much to say, which only contributes to less being said by others. This is honestly the biggest factor for my own withdrawal from the community. I used to browse daily, several times daily, and actively posted on multiple boards. Now I check once or twice a week some weeks, sometimes once in two or three weeks. And here is what kills it: when I have been away for 2 weeks and check back in, only a handful of new threads have been posted, most old threads have 0 - 2 new replies. I get caught up in 10 minutes, have nothing to contribute, -> go check the next forum.

Now of course there are reasons, explanations, exceptions, and excuses, and causes for any given problem. The issue is complex, has been growing for a long time, and just as there is no simple cause, there is no simple solution.

Obviously, what TGC can do, will do is out of our hands. What can we do?

Post, Share, Present, Collaborate.

Working on a project, but don't feel its ready for a WIP? Post it. Talk about it. We are all doing the same things, everyone understands that a huge amount of work can go in to something without it looking visually awesome. Tell us about it. Talk about where it is going, where it has come from.

Not working on anything? Start something. big, small, pointless or epic. Grab a few others to work with. Even if you dont finish it, you will probably learn something new. Post it. Talk about it.

When it comes to work in progress, post early, post often. feedback will almost always help improve your work.


I'm guilty, I admit it. So I'll tell you what: I pledge to have my own project posted up as a WIP before the weekend is out, and further, I pledge to tell 2 people about it who are not currently active members in an effort to drive new traffic in.

Could it be more polished? For sure. Would I be more comfortable in waiting until it was further along? Yep. Will it ever get to a point where I feel that it is -ready- to share? probably not! There is always something more that I am going to feel needs to be done, but then that's why it is called work in progress.

Do I expect anyone else to do this? of course not, but if you do happen to be sitting on something, you have nothing to lose by posting it up.


Let me be clear, I am not encouraging anyone to spam the boards, nor am I advocating team requests. I am simply encouraging people to post and share any meaningful activities that they are engaging and progressing in more publicly and consistently.


TLDR >>

TGC has lost heart. The members have lost heart. A few flames still flicker and offer up some light, but they need some real fuel to catch and spread.

Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 27th Aug 2014 19:18 Edited at: 27th Aug 2014 19:19
It certainly doesn't help that Unreal Engine and Unity have REALLY taken the lead for indie game development in the last couple of years, and they both support multiple platforms (which has become super important in the last 3 or so years). TGC probably could have stayed on top if they had done the following...

1) - Stayed focused on an all-purpose game making tool, maybe even develop a "DarkBASIC Elite" that had a level editor, better scripting functionality, and multi-platform support
2) - When AppGameKit was announced they should have had a Mac compatible IDE for us Maccies to be able to develop using AppGameKit, as well
3) - Continued to hold competitions throughout the year, allowing for traction to develop and people to stay involved in the community
4) - Communicated with us better

I stopped using DBP back in 2011 because it was having issues running on Windows 7, not to mention Windows 8... I considered buying AppGameKit but at the time it still only was just starting and was only 2D. So, I moved on to using Unity, and other various engines, and haven't really looked back.

I stayed involved on Geek Culture because of fun topics such as The Posting Competition, but that just died... Now there's not much, and at this point, unless TGC announce a giant, game-changing product by the end of the year, I don't see the activity in this community continuing for more than a year or two.


Come check out my new website!
Green Gandalf
VIP Member
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Jan 2005
Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.
Posted: 27th Aug 2014 19:48
This thread has to be an audition for the replacement

Private James Frazer





Powered by Free Banners
Chris Tate
DBPro Master
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Aug 2008
Location: London, England
Posted: 27th Aug 2014 21:01 Edited at: 27th Aug 2014 21:05
Unity is doing to the indie-game industry, what the supermarket is doing to the local shop down your road; they give you everything under one roof!

I think what is needed is more support from the community;

Yes YOU!! You are The Game Creators.

At the end of the day Unity amounts to the support given to it; likewise TGC's products amount to the support that was given to them, not the summation of hours in the wee early morning the programmers work to fix each and every bug that creeps up.

Support need not be monetary; simply exchanging ideas, forming friendly collaborations and arranging social events
and participating with cheer are acts of socialogical magnetism which can pull in more ideas and money into your favourite product. But sitting there criticising the newcomers WIPs without any credibility or work of you own, not participating in competitions, not working together, not posting useful snippets, not reporting bugs properly and wasting the moderators time by posting junk will not get you AppGameKit, FPSCR and DarkBASIC on steriods.

Do not worry about the Unity community; they have been doing a great deal for many years; it is time some of us, including me; started to show what TGC are capable of. Ofcourse many have given 101%, and to you I salute!

Hockeykid
DBPro Tool Maker
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Sep 2007
Location:
Posted: 27th Aug 2014 21:15
Quote: "Continued to hold competitions throughout the year, allowing for traction to develop and people to stay involved in the community"

Quote: "arranging social events"


I think these are key, without social interactions through the forum (such as competitions) the forum mainly becomes boring questions and answers (except for the Geek Culture board). The FPSC community used to have community competitions all the time, those were loads of fun and stirred up the FPSC community a lot. Unfortunately nowadays these sort of "social interactions" seem to be scarce. For example, the Nexus 10 competition back in July was the first competition I've seen for quite awhile. Social interactions is really important to get people to come back as it keeps things from getting boring.


Sean

The Next
Web Engineer
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Dec 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 27th Aug 2014 22:03 Edited at: 27th Aug 2014 22:08
This forum is still very much in use and TGC still supports the community here (DBP, AppGameKit, FPSC and general). I cannot speak for their future plans but AppGameKit and FPSCR are a big part of them for sure hence why they get all the time investment at the moment. I don't believe DBP will be updated again in its current form if it does come back it will be as a new product so that is why many of those users have left.

The reason the FPSCR boards are separate is that FPSCR is moving off in a direction this forum would not have suited, namely steam support. There are a large number of boards over at the FPSCR and adding that to this forum would have been a big mess, not to mention hard to navigate for new FPSCR users.

This forum is in need of a cleanup for sure a lot of the boards are abandoned and when I get a moment I will go through and compile all the boards to reduce the number of them and make things a bit easier to know where to post now the number of members has reduced. As for the rules we have they came from a time long ago when the forums where full of members that could not be trusted this has changed mostly now and many of the rules could be ignored and things would run perfectly fine, however they won't be as they are the rules and they are there for those that want to take us back to the dark days of mods working very hard to keep the forums tidy.

If anyone has any comments on what boards they think can be merged let me know.

Windows 7 Pro, Intel i7 3.8 GHz, 16GB DDR3, NVIDIA GTX 780 4GB Superclocked

View the beta TGC forum progress at the url below View beta forum
wattywatts
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th May 2009
Location: Michigan
Posted: 27th Aug 2014 22:08
Quote: " Most of us have little to no interest in working on someone else's project as we are each caught up in our own"

I'd say that's completely due to forum rules. I would love to join a team... The only game I ever finished and sold was created this way.
Indicium
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th May 2008
Location:
Posted: 27th Aug 2014 22:09
I think everything under Game Making could go under Geek Culture, I'd like to see more posts about game design, programming and even modelling in here - I rarely check the dedicated boards for them, if ever. I think they'll be more widely received here. I know WIPs are technically allowed in here too, but maybe some official guidelines to go with it - that might encourage people to share their work.
Rudolpho
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Dec 2005
Location: Sweden
Posted: 27th Aug 2014 22:14 Edited at: 27th Aug 2014 22:15
Quote: "If anyone has any comments on what boards they think can be merged let me know."

Not really a merge suggestion but I really think all these "artist looking for (portfolio) work" threads should be outlawed. I don't know about the 2D/3D media forums but those single handedly killed mine, and I'm sure quite a few others', interest in the music board. That place is pretty much a huge heap of "hire me, I'm cheap!" posts. I don't think anybody around here actually will hire them so allowing such posts don't add much but rather detriments. I could rant on about this but I'll leave it at that, just a "cleanup" suggestion.


"Why do programmers get Halloween and Christmas mixed up?"
Indicium
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th May 2008
Location:
Posted: 27th Aug 2014 22:15
Quote: "Not really a merge suggestion but I really think all these "artist looking for (portfolio) work"


I'd agree with this - there are websites for that.
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 27th Aug 2014 22:24
Quote: "If anyone has any comments on what boards they think can be merged let me know."

I think all the AppGameKit boards except the Showcase could now be merged into Product Chat. Freedom Engine is discontinued and no longer needs a board. I don't use other boards so I can't comment on those.

Ortu
DBPro Master
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 27th Aug 2014 22:29 Edited at: 27th Aug 2014 22:47
Dbpro and newcomers dbro can probably be one board. 2d and 3d can probably be merged into a 'media' board. Can't really see any of the others merging, and tbh i don't see this having much effect. Its just another step in the slow retreat. If it helps it helps, but i think more is needed, from both sides.

Not sure i get the issue of steam support separating fpscr, particularly with that new steam plugin floating aroun here, and frankly it brings up the question why other products are not being targeted for better steam support, this is one of the things that would help keep other products relevant, namely dbpro and gdk.

Indicium
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th May 2008
Location:
Posted: 27th Aug 2014 22:51
I think dbpro and gdk are effectively dead. What I don't understand is why TGC opted to write FPSCR in dbpro.
Ortu
DBPro Master
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 27th Aug 2014 23:25
Tend to agree with you on gdk, dbpro well, it's a lot like XP, we will drag it along until someone pries it from our fingers. It still has a place i think. One that agk and fpscr just don't fill.

Indicium
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th May 2008
Location:
Posted: 27th Aug 2014 23:32 Edited at: 27th Aug 2014 23:33
I don't mind the DirectX9 problem so much - it's the fact it's not cross platform which I think is becoming more and more important. Of course, DirectX9 is a problem because it's not cross platform, but I wouldn't mind DX9 alongside an older GL.

I've also gone off procedural programming all together, I couldn't write code without objects now.
Ortu
DBPro Master
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 28th Aug 2014 05:35 Edited at: 28th Aug 2014 05:38
Hmm just had a thought regarding forum reorganization... Vanilla forum software in general is pretty aweful, but I do kind of like the 'Discussions' page which basically just displays posts from all of the various boards mixed together sorted by newest to oldest. The benefit is that you can see everything being actively discussed in one place without having to go to each board individually. Of course you can still go to a specific board to filter the content down when you want to, and you can filter specific boards out of the Discussions page compilation if you have no interest in seeing that board's posts.

This view kind of eliminates the issue of low activity in any one specific board by just bringing all the activity to the front when you want it. This really helps make it so that a good thread can get exposure and activity even if it is in a low traffic board.

Chris Tate
DBPro Master
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Aug 2008
Location: London, England
Posted: 28th Aug 2014 11:28 Edited at: 28th Aug 2014 11:35
Quote: "They've abandoned DBPro, and AppGameKit doesn't quite fill the same niche and as such doesn't attract that same type of developer. "

I think they've abandoned a DBPro version, but not DBPro in general. They are slowly.. but surely making a new version which FPSCR lies on.

And it is so true, AppGameKit attracts a different type of developer which leads me to my two next points.

Quote: "DBPro cant do this, such and such is broken - It is easier to give up and move on to something else, but for whatever problem or shortcoming, there is almost always a work around."


I think this would be a different story if DBPRO was the only product and with AppGameKit as a deployment option for cross-platform development; or vice-versa DBP as a deployment option in AGK. With a single product, and more people focused on it, you have an immaculately orchestrated development cycle with no stone unturned when seeking improvements and enhancements.

Quote: " I think dbpro and gdk are effectively dead. What I don't understand is why TGC opted to write FPSCR in dbpro. "


I have not used FPSCR, but can understand why it may not have been good to create it exclusively in DBPRO the way it is now; but the version of DBPRO they are using is not the same as the one we are using.

DBP is a great language, but is being neglected. At least now it is being given support for Direct X 11, which is good for adding modern GPU shader models used in AAA titles.

I think that multi-platform development is an increasingly profitable market and is easier for indie-developers to survive with. There are many operating systems now.

But the downside is the lowest common denomination where all features must work on all selected platforms, and the overhead of translation and testing on every target machine.

Cross-platform development is perfect for many arcade games and many of the other games but is not the correct kind for all types of games which deserve attention and consideration.

The lack of spot light in the media as a trend, and the trend of not vigorously considering the details of the PC market on a per concept basis put people off considering making a PC game whatsoever;

There is a difference between the greatest game paired with the most suitable hardware, and the best game that can work on everyone's machine.

I think DBRO, FPSC and GDK represent TGC's the PC gaming market; and are dying due to neglect and the trend; yet in the United States alone; there are more than 60 million PC gamers! This does not include the rest of the world, including the chinese who have even more PC gamers than in the US and are predominantly playing online PC games.

PC gaming population over the past 5 years, is on the rise at a superior rate to that of consoles. And expect more when virtual reality and consolidation of home entertainment and automation becomes the trend.

Quote: "
Focus split into too many directions. - DBP, GDK, AppGameKit, FPSCR, that cloud thing that never even took off."


One or two products would have been better; they could still use integration to support our different needs and wants.

Quote: "Most of us have little to no interest in working on someone else's project as we are each caught up in our own"


This a problem I wish the forum could be made to rectify; without collaboration there are not going to be many good games. There are only the noble few who can pull of a good title on their own. Discouraging team development is contradictory to what is required for making good games; capabilities.

Quote: "There are a large number of boards over at the FPSCR and adding that to this forum would have been a big mess, not to mention hard to navigate for new FPSCR users. "


True

TheComet
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Oct 2007
Location: I`m under ur bridge eating ur goatz.
Posted: 28th Aug 2014 14:15 Edited at: 28th Aug 2014 14:15
Quote: "Most of us have little to no interest in working on someone else's project as we are each caught up in our own"


This isn't the fault of TGC, this is due to inexperience of the developers and collaborative tools. For one, very few on this forum have ever actually used version control, let alone know what it is.

If you're going to collaborate, giving everyone a zip file of your project isn't enough.

If everyone started using github and learned how to properly use the issue tracker, it'd be an entirely different story.

Ortu
DBPro Master
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 29th Aug 2014 01:32
Quote: "te: "Most of us have little to no interest in working on someone else's project as we are each caught up in our own"

This isn't the fault of TGC, this is due to inexperience of the developers and collaborative tools. For one, very few on this forum have ever actually used version control, let alone know what it is.

If you're going to collaborate, giving everyone a zip file of your project isn't enough.

If everyone started using github and learned how to properly use the issue tracker, it'd be an entirely different story."


Agreed, and that is why that whole block is under member problems. The part where tgc comes in is not only the lack of support for collaboration, but the active deterrent of it. Yes teams can form but it is an awkward tricky business in the environment enforced. It is no wonder few here know of git or svn, this is not a community that has been focused on or built around working together. In the past this was needed to prevent flooding, but this is a different time now with different concerns.

Indicium
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th May 2008
Location:
Posted: 29th Aug 2014 02:54
Quote: "There is a difference between the greatest game paired with the most suitable hardware, and the best game that can work on everyone's machine."


I don't agree - the underlying engine should abstract away a developers need to care about which operating system the game is running on.
Clonkex
Forum Vice President
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 29th Aug 2014 04:47 Edited at: 29th Aug 2014 04:48
Quote: "The Posting Competition, but that just died..."


The Posting Competition is alive and well!

Seppuku Arts
Moderator
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 29th Aug 2014 12:06
I'm less active given I'm not programming games at the moment, working with ASP.NET at the moment. Plus other personal stuff. Besides when I do do games programming, I have gone to Unity 3D, I know, terrible me, but if TGC had AppGameKit with full C# support, then I'd probably consider buying it, C++ ain't my thing and I like to keep well practice's in C#.

I still loiter, but only engage in topics I find interesting, not sure what interesting stuff I'd create topics for. Other than ASP I'm roleplaying, which I only started doing a year ago and have found that it is awesome, you get some cringe worthy RPers, but the group I run is great.

Indicium
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th May 2008
Location:
Posted: 29th Aug 2014 14:44
Quote: " C++ ain't my thing and I like to keep well practice's in C#."


C++ > C#. I think C++ is much more suited to game development.
Libervurto
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Jun 2006
Location: On Toast
Posted: 29th Aug 2014 15:35
Quote: "you get some cringe worthy RPers"


Hail! Good moro Ser Cactus, allow me to introduce myself, I am Ser Reginald P Manatee, son of Peginald R Manatee.

Formerly OBese87.
Chris Tate
DBPro Master
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Aug 2008
Location: London, England
Posted: 29th Aug 2014 18:47 Edited at: 29th Aug 2014 18:53
Quote: "I don't agree - the underlying engine should abstract away a developers need to care about which operating system the game is running on. "


Yep, they should!

Quote: "very few on this forum have ever actually used version control, let alone know what it is"


I knew what that was long before I found out about DarkBASIC Classic. In an ideal world, the forum would guide you as to how to collaborate with such things to promote the development of games.

TheComet
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Oct 2007
Location: I`m under ur bridge eating ur goatz.
Posted: 29th Aug 2014 20:18 Edited at: 29th Aug 2014 20:20
Quote: "I knew what that was long before I found out about DarkBASIC Classic. In an ideal world, the forum would guide you as to how to collaborate with such things to promote the development of games."


Those who do know what it is aren't using it though. Why? Version control is useful even when you're alone. There's no reason not to use it.

In a world where everyone would be using version control, collaboration becomes soooo damn easy.

And it's not even hard to do. I think the real problem here is most people are stubborn and scared of change. Version control seems like a huge leap into an unknown world, so everyone would rather stick with what they know and send zip files. The truth is it's really easy to use.

I would tell everyone right now to go and install git and read the manual on how to use it, but no one is going to do that because they're too lazy and because of the reasons mentioned above.

I almost feel like writing a "tutorial" on how to use it on TGC, just so people actually consider using it. My tutorial would be nowhere near the quality of the git user manual, but it would offer a safe place for scared developers to read up on it because apparently anything outside of TGC is out of range.

Indicium
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th May 2008
Location:
Posted: 29th Aug 2014 20:21
Not necessarily plain git either, the GitHub client is a very easy introduction to using git.
Green Gandalf
VIP Member
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Jan 2005
Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.
Posted: 29th Aug 2014 21:45
Quote: "I almost feel like writing a "tutorial" on how to use it on TGC, just so people actually consider using it. My tutorial would be nowhere near the quality of the git user manual, but it would offer a safe place for scared developers to read up on it because apparently anything outside of TGC is out of range."


Since a git is an unpleasant person in a large part of the English speaking world I'd be surprised anybody from the UK would consider using it.

what is a git?



Powered by Free Banners
Rudolpho
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Dec 2005
Location: Sweden
Posted: 29th Aug 2014 21:58
I prefer SVN, but I guess that's just me


"Why do programmers get Halloween and Christmas mixed up?"
Indicium
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th May 2008
Location:
Posted: 29th Aug 2014 22:44
Quote: "I prefer SVN, but I guess that's just me"


SVN sucks.

Quote: "Since a git is an unpleasant person in a large part of the English speaking world I'd be surprised anybody from the UK would consider using it"


The creator (also the creator of Linux ) named it after himself, he considered himself to be a git.
TheComet
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Oct 2007
Location: I`m under ur bridge eating ur goatz.
Posted: 29th Aug 2014 23:32
The creators don't even know what it means:
https://github.com/git/git/blob/master/README

Ortu
DBPro Master
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 30th Aug 2014 00:10
svn is more rigid but I've used it long enough to not mind or worry about it. Git is much better for distributed collaboration without a doubt. I don't have a ton up on it yet but i do like it

Rudolpho
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Dec 2005
Location: Sweden
Posted: 30th Aug 2014 00:17
I've never actually used git and my major objection to it may very well be fallacious; I've always assumed that since it is being advertised as essentially a P2P sharing system rather than being centralized there will be two major issues:
1) Nobody else is online => you can't download the latest updates.
2) Data is probably shared around rather than being duplicated for each user in a repository, so even if some people are online there might be some forks not possible to grab until someone else who actually shares that is online, and so forth.

Is this true or does it support delegating requests to some type of master server if there are no suitable peers to be reached?


"Why do programmers get Halloween and Christmas mixed up?"
Dar13
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th May 2008
Location: Microsoft VisualStudio 2010 Professional
Posted: 30th Aug 2014 00:23
Quote: "Is this true or does it support delegating requests to some type of master server if there are no suitable peers to be reached?"

The most common way to set up git is to use a central server to host the remote repository. That way it never really goes offline and people can grab from it/push to it at will.

Indicium
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th May 2008
Location:
Posted: 30th Aug 2014 00:25
Since when were GitHub the creators of git? Git was created by Linus Torvalds.
Rudolpho
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Dec 2005
Location: Sweden
Posted: 30th Aug 2014 00:41
Quote: "The most common way to set up git is to use a central server to host the remote repository. That way it never really goes offline and people can grab from it/push to it at will."

Hm, I see. Thanks for enlightening me.


"Why do programmers get Halloween and Christmas mixed up?"
Indicium
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th May 2008
Location:
Posted: 30th Aug 2014 00:59
Quote: "The most common way to set up git is to use a central server to host the remote repository. "


It can be set up without the central server, although I can't think of reason you'd want to.
Green Gandalf
VIP Member
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Jan 2005
Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.
Posted: 30th Aug 2014 01:06 Edited at: 30th Aug 2014 01:08
** Deleted because totally out of place. Forgot to check for second page.



Powered by Free Banners
TheComet
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Oct 2007
Location: I`m under ur bridge eating ur goatz.
Posted: 30th Aug 2014 01:29
Quote: "2) Data is probably shared around rather than being duplicated for each user in a repository, so even if some people are online there might be some forks not possible to grab until someone else who actually shares that is online, and so forth."


Git is a distributed version control system (DVCS). This means that if you clone/pull changes from someone, you will have the complete repository on your hard drive. Every change ever made.

Clonkex
Forum Vice President
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 30th Aug 2014 10:50
Quote: "Since a git is an unpleasant person in a large part of the English speaking world I'd be surprised anybody from the UK would consider using it."


Yeah, I have used it before but my brother and I both laugh every time we see someone casually referring to it

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-04-18 05:14:08
Your offset time is: 2024-04-18 05:14:08