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Geek Culture / Why is the forum dying?

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 19th Sep 2014 15:31
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That kind of error isn't browser specific, there must be something wrong with the way it calculates how many pages to advance you. Perhaps the forum messages per page value or something,


http://www.photonstorm.com
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The Zoq2
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Posted: 19th Sep 2014 17:07
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Quote: " Just tried on a few threads. Worked once on a 1 page thread but the others gave me the first post. Is it because I use Firefox?"


Works fine on FF for me aswell

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 19th Sep 2014 18:28
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Quote: " Perhaps the forum is bugged and doesnt have your posts per page setting right. Go setting and adjust how many posts are on a page and then set it back."

Tried that, didn't help. And also doesn't matter if the thread have multiple pages or not. And I've had the same problem on both my laptop and my gaming PC. Not tried on my phone though.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 19th Sep 2014 19:10
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Since we've gone somewhat off-topic and are now discussing forum oddities, has anyone any idea what's causing my current problem with the forum.

It used to be the case that if I browsed back to a forum board page then it was automatically refreshed so if I'd looked at a thread by clicking on the Newest Thread button and then returned to the main board list that particular Newest Thread button would no longer appear. Now though, it sometimes does and sometimes doesn't. It can get confusing because if I forget to refresh first and try to go to the Newest Thread I get the familiar "there are no new posts since you were last here" message. It's as if there's an auto refresh option somewhere in IE that needs to be changed, but I've no idea where to look. Any ideas? This seems to be a recent problem.



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BatVink
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Posted: 19th Sep 2014 19:15 Edited at: 19th Sep 2014 19:17
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I think that is the age-old problem that many people suffer from - using Internet Explorer.

I'm going to try not to sound like an arrogant IT-helpdesk geek* now...but I personally wouldn't use IE. It's too susceptible to bad people, and also so much slower than Chrome or Firefox. It is also the browser that is most removed from the RFC standards and so has the most compatibility problems.

I have never had any of the intermittent problems that people have listed here, I use Chrome. It's not perfect, but I think it's the best of a bad lot.

*Disclaimer - I am not an IT-helpdesk geek. Not all IT-helpdesk personnel are geeks or arrogant. Other arrogant/geeky job descriptions are available

ten-net consulting limited
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MrValentine
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Posted: 19th Sep 2014 19:18
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A lot of mention of IE but never the version...

IE11 here and not a single issue to report...

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BatVink
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Posted: 19th Sep 2014 19:25
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Quote: "A lot of mention of IE but never the version..."


That is the biggest part of the problem (a dig at M$, not you Mr V). When a web page is within the bounds of the technology for IE6, for example, then you shouldn't have to specify version. Nobody ever needs to ask what version of Chrome. Unfortunately M$ leave a trail of unfixed bugs and incompatibilities.

The current version of the forum has no features requiring anything beyond IE6, but it is actually necessary to ask What version.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 19th Sep 2014 19:36
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IE11 here.



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Jeku
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Posted: 19th Sep 2014 19:46
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Rich - Nice to see you back here again! I don't know if you noticed some of the improvements I made to this forum code a few years back (YouTube and Soundcloud embedding, and syntax highlighting for various languages). There were a few other tweaks and stuff, but my life grew too busy and I couldn't find time to do other features for free Another forum user (The Next) took over the forum code since last year I believe and is doing more mass updates on the Apollo code for a new version of the forum.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 19th Sep 2014 20:09
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BatVink I know what you mean...

Regarding compatibility, I found that a website I previously added to the compatibility list err stopped working and I spent ages being annoyed and it turned out THEY UPDATED THEIR SITE G D I and after removing the site from the compatibility list in IE11 it worked fine...

But yeah in IE11 they have really made leaps and bounds, well on Windows 8.1 that is for me... JUST TRY PRESSING F12!!! OMG!!!

My custom browser for the forum uses core IE11! I might make a video later to show how I browse the forum... but it has no JavaScript capabilities as I have not implemented them and likely never will, and also Flash is not implemented either... I have back and forward buttons working as well as refresh but the only thing I am missing now is Current Page URL... and right click context menus, but otherwise the forum works beautifully in this... I might add the NEW FRAME/WINDOW function for sections in future... but I doubt I will ever get permission to release this browser to the public sadly... but it has removed my reliability on the 'broken' RSS feeds

Oh and I created my own custom nav menu!

Here is a shot of how it looks presently:



The nav menu and refresh back forward menus are simply invoked with a swipe up on my screen from the bottom or swipe down from the top or right click with the mouse... I can copy paste text however...

Just wish I was better at C#/.NET/C++ at the moment but with time we improve...

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Indicium
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Posted: 19th Sep 2014 22:41
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Honestly, Mr V, that's is absolutely horrid. Why would you want that?
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MrValentine
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Posted: 19th Sep 2014 23:22
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Because it works in every view, but I think you judge too soon...

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MrValentine
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Posted: 20th Sep 2014 00:24 Edited at: 20th Sep 2014 00:26
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An earlier video


Roughly 247~MB

A new video made in the last hour or so


Roughly 241~MB

The first video was recorded using ScreenCapture methods using software, the second video used external capture hardware so it looks a bit frizzy, wanted to test it out, but even though fuzzy it is still very clear...

EDIT

Link to BETA Forum for viewing the videos:
http://betaforum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=211954&b=2&msg=2534353#m2534353

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 20th Sep 2014 01:00
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Newest post works great on my phone.

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Indicium
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Posted: 20th Sep 2014 01:08
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Sorry bud I still don't see much point in it. Navigating really doesn't take that long. You probably spent more time developing that than you will ever spend navigating between boards.
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The Zoq2
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Posted: 20th Sep 2014 01:45
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Quote: "You probably spent more time developing that than you will ever spend navigating between boards."


Isn't that usualy the case when you develop "tools" though

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
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MrValentine
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Posted: 20th Sep 2014 01:46 Edited at: 20th Sep 2014 02:46
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Well, considering I skip jumping back to the main board... jumping up to the top of a thread, and having many tabs open, that and the shear two click method of it might disagree with you

I never perform an exercise unless I feel I would gain from it, I did, I learned a great deal about using WebView and many other factors relating to using Visual Studio...

So the few hours were justified... now I can spend much less time navigating as a side effect

I also optimised my navigation menu development for all current and future apps

But I guess you are not using Windows 8.1 platforms yet, I also have this app on my mobile , I learned a great deal from developing that too

End of the day I HAVE gained from it so not sure what you mean ^^

Mind you I am still to ask TGC about it... so it might still have its chances at being out there for free entirely, just need TGC to implement SSL so that I feel safer when users use it... but not important... I see no point in charging for something that is free, and my policies on No-Ads in apps should keep everybody happy but equally happy to keep this in-house I save a lot of time just shooting through the forum...

EDIT

Quote: "Isn't that usualy the case when you develop "tools" though"


Not sure he understands the concept

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Indicium
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Posted: 20th Sep 2014 02:22 Edited at: 20th Sep 2014 02:24
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Quote: "Not sure he understands the concept "


Whey, but when you claim the tool is just for timesaving then the time spent developing it really does factor in, considering how obtrusive it is and the fact that you have to open an entirely new application for just browsing some forums.

Quote: "But I guess you are not using Windows 8.1 platforms yet,"


YET?! I never plan to, you make it sound like it's the ultimate step. Cross platform development is the way forward, not specialising in something that nobody uses. (You excluded.)

Oh, and by the way - the pages would render a lot faster in a decent browser.
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MrValentine
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Posted: 20th Sep 2014 02:42
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I figured you were trolling, not one point did I state what you are stating... I just said I learned a lot from the development time...

Take a chill pill think you are having a bad day

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Clonkex
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Posted: 20th Sep 2014 08:45 Edited at: 20th Sep 2014 10:23
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Quote: "and having many tabs open"


What on earth is wrong with having multiple tabs open?? That's what they're for and they make things a heck of a lot easier. It's the reason I detest links that are created with JS because you can't right-click and open in a new tab.

Quote: "But I guess you are not using Windows 8.1 platforms yet"


Whaaaat. "Yet" doesn't apply. I have no intention whatsoever of having anything to do with Windows 8.x.


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MrValentine
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Posted: 20th Sep 2014 09:00 Edited at: 20th Sep 2014 09:00
Link


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MrValentine
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Posted: 20th Sep 2014 09:00 Edited at: 20th Sep 2014 09:51
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Quote: "Whaaaat. "Yet" doesn't apply. I have no intention whatsoever of having anything to do with Windows 8.x."


Windows 9 or future will still have similar elements so 'yet' applies ;

aAAAAH MUSTN'T WRITE WHEN TIRED...

Quote: "But I guess you are not using Windows 8.1 platforms yet"


But I guess you HAVE not TRIED using Windows 8.1 platforms yet

EDIT

Mind you, I have been unwell this week...

Quote: "What on earth is wrong with having multiple tabs open?? That's what they're for and they make things a heck of a lot easier. It's the reason I detest links that created with JS because you can't right-click and open in a new tab."


Ah yeah I dislike a lot of the way some sites use JS... I am implementing Multiple 'FRAMES/WINDOWS' which will act like tabs

I am not against them

To answer an earlier question...

Quote: "considering how obtrusive it is and the fact that you have to open an entirely new application for just browsing some forums."


It loads faster than any browser* [* = In my view], so that is that sorted then... [Likely because it has some sort of clever caching even after a restart...]

Anyway this is for me, it works for me, don't see why you have a gripe when someone shows you their project...

I thought dev forum's were about constructional feedback... I guess I was wrong...

Did some additional testing, and the delay is actually associated with the fact the forum is not hosted in the UK as I understand it is hosted currently in Germany? and I am on Wi-Fi as well...

Some people like jumping guns don't they?

Going to sleep this over...

Clonkex you got mail

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Clonkex
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Posted: 20th Sep 2014 10:35
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Quote: "Windows 9 or future will still have similar elements so 'yet' applies"


The plan is to use 7 until M$ crashes and burns under its own weight and is forced to release Windows as open-source

Quote: "But I guess you HAVE not TRIED using Windows 8.1 platforms yet"


Actually I've used it lots, and the more I use it the less I like it. Except that it's a bit faster than 7, but other than that, I don't like 8 at all.

Quote: "Anyway this is for me, it works for me, don't see why you have a gripe when someone shows you their project..."


I mostly agree with Incidium.

Quote: "I thought dev forum's were about constructional feedback... I guess I was wrong..."


You're only wrong in that in that Incidium's comments are (mostly) constructive. IMO anyway. Maybe just because I agree with him. Maybe because I hate IE so much.

Quote: "Oh, and by the way - the pages would render a lot faster in a decent browser."

Quote: "Some people like jumping guns don't they?"


We're not bashing you, we're bashing IE. Don't take it personally


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MrValentine
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Posted: 20th Sep 2014 10:55
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'sigh'

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MrValentine
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Posted: 20th Sep 2014 10:59
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This thread just developed an irony...

I'm out...

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 20th Sep 2014 13:38
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Are we any further with my original query about IE11 and auto refreshing pages on this forum? The discussion seems to have gone off at a tangent or perhaps a binormal?

IE11 has a meta auto refresh facility but that isn't what I want. I want a page to be refreshed when I open it. If I recall correctly this site is the only site that has this problem for me - and then only recently (but might be ever since I've been using W7 however can't be sure). But then this is almost the only site I use.

I'm using IE11 and W7.



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Clonkex
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Posted: 20th Sep 2014 15:44
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Quote: "Are we any further with my original query about IE11 and auto refreshing pages on this forum?"


Not really, and I doubt you'll get any further. Generally, the answer to

"I have a problem - I use IE"

is

"Don't use IE"

Sorry, but if IE is refreshing the page outside your control, you won't be able to disable it IMHO, best to move away from IE sooner rather than later if you can (if you've got lots of bookmarks, Chrome and probably Firefox can import your bookmarks).


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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 20th Sep 2014 17:15
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Quote: "but if IE is refreshing the page outside your control"


It isn't refreshing consistently, that's the problem. Since no one else has reported this particular issue with IE it doesn't sound like an IE issue - but then for the same reason it doesn't sound like a TGC forum issue either. Perhaps something is wrong on this machine? For example, I have a similar refresh issues with Windows Explorer. If I delete a file from a folder using Windows I've quite often noticed that the file name still appears until I hit the refresh button. Similar problems occur if I create a new folder and rename it. My guess is that the two problems are related somehow. There's one more issue I've noticed. Sometimes when I type text the letters don't appear in the order typed. While simple transpositions can be user error I noticed today that "Ladyhawke" became "La yhawked" when I typed the name into the Google search box. I'm sure my typing isn't that bad. These all look like some sort of timing issue to me. But what and where?



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James H
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Posted: 20th Sep 2014 18:21
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GG - Im probably wrong but you could try turning hpet off/on in bios (when on you will need to enable in OS if you have win7 or below as additional test).
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Ortu
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Posted: 20th Sep 2014 23:03 Edited at: 20th Sep 2014 23:16
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Quote: "Quote: "Works fine for me. Always takes me to the oldest unread post which is usually exactly what I want not the newest post strictly speaking. The only exception is when the poster is on post moderation so the post doesn't show. In my opinion a post which isn't viewable shouldn't be detected as the newest post. Somewhat confusing."
Just tried on a few threads. Worked once on a 1 page thread but the others gave me the first post. Is it because I use Firefox?"


I use firefox and it has always worked properly for me. Might be a cookies issue or some browser setting messing with a session id? not really sure how the forum tracks what the last post you viewed in a thread was.

Quote: "It's the reason I detest links that are created with JS because you can't right-click and open in a new tab."


Well, it really depends on how it is creating them, and more specifically if it is creating an actual link or if it is creating a control disguised as a link. if it is literally creating a hyperlink like:



you can rightclick and use this the same as any other link.

if it is using a link as a means of interfacing with a custom control to do more than just take you to another page, then it isn't really a link and that's another story

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 21st Sep 2014 00:43
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Quote: "you could try turning hpet off/on in bios"


Quote: "when on you will need to enable in OS if you have win7"


What is hpet? What would I have to enable in OS and where?



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James H
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Posted: 21st Sep 2014 02:35
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high precision event timer, prior to its existance tsc is used which is faster but not stable(even when patched) and the newer invariant tsc is supposed to be stable, they are used to sync everything up, iirc hpet might be intel only in early days at least - hpet is quite old now. A lot of the time windows uses combinations of hpet/tsc but you can set it to use hpet exclusively. win8 is supposed to have it set on automatically. I cannot pretend to know too much about this, it seems to be one of those age old arguments of which is better but ultimately it looks to me to give different results based on hardware and software setup combinations. It also appears to vary between different games and apps. Sometimes people get peformance issues from default settings, I only came across it after not getting a stable OC - for OC I was told to turn it off and put it back later - which I forgot to do repeatedly! Basically every now and then I would find slow down issues for various tasks, mouse had a trail that sort of thing, turning it back on in bios made everything return to normal and stopped making my bf4 game stuttering as much, I was going to turn it on in windowws but am waiting to see what the next patch produces for bf4 performance because as things stand other than bf4 my system runs fast and smooth and I tend not to fix what aint broke. Interestingly my mate has to have his off in bios to get bf4 smooth but then his Os has issues! Obviously I cant tell what else he may have played with, anyway, instructons are in this thread here with a long discusion on the matter - I leave it to you to decide which geeky nerd is right/wrong!!!
http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1075781-tweak-enable-hpet-in-bios-and-os-for-better-performance-and-fps/
also according to the next link using various timers will affect your battery power consumption
https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2013/07/08/windows-timer-resolution-megawatts-wasted/
Like I said Im not 100% on exactly what is what with this, Im only prepared to test in early october when bf4 should get patched as Im sick to the back teeth of messing around with my comp then spending hours testing the results for hours with each change all because EA are a bunch of, well best not finish that sentence..and I hate the way they are giving zeros and ones a lifespan.
O and when I stated when on it needs enabling in os - thats only to use it exclusively - or I think exclusively at least - reading all 11 pages just got on my goat hence why I will test it myself when the time comes but it shouldnt harm your comp and can be undone if you find things are made worse
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Clonkex
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Posted: 21st Sep 2014 03:49
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Personally, I would disable HPET in the BIOS if you have Win7 or higher, and just ignore Windows settings. It'll be in the ACPI Setup page of your BIOS if you have the option for it, and be called something like ACPI HPET Table.

I just went and disabled mine after doing lots of research into the matter because it's known to cause heaps of stuttering and some FPS drop in certain games like BF4 that are very CPU-heavy.

The thing is, if it helps, leave it that way. If it doesn't, just turn it back on again

Note: From my research, I believe Win7 will try to use the Invariant TSC timer if HPET is turned off, which is a good thing because the ITSC is a higher-precision timer than HPET and results in more accurate and faster hardware interrupts. That's probably the reason some people encounter a huge performance boost when turning off the now-outdated HPET.


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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 21st Sep 2014 14:13
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Now why would a timing precision issue cause typed characters to appear out of order?

Perhaps it's my left hand getting out of step with my right hand when typing? Not sure how that could explain it though?



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Clonkex
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Posted: 21st Sep 2014 15:03
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Quote: "Perhaps it's my left hand getting out of step with my right hand when typing?"


For the record, that happens to me all the time.

Quote: "Now why would a timing precision issue cause typed characters to appear out of order?"


Off the top of my head, I would say that the message pump is missing characters due to incorrectly timed interrupts.... but then again I have no idea what I'm talking about and might be talking out my arse (as Lewis of the Yogscast would say).


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James H
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Posted: 21st Sep 2014 17:17
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Quote: "Now why would a timing precision issue cause typed characters to appear out of order?"

Quote: "These all look like some sort of timing issue to me"


That is the reason I posted what I said, until I switched hpet back on I noticed a number of issues including having to refresh on occasion to get explorer to show changes I made. In my case my hardware is old so itsc probably not supported. This aside the refresh option must be there for a reason...
As for the typing order - that I have experienced and could be a separate issue like typing to fast/simple human error - I do have dupuytrens contracture though and so the issue occurs regularly for me on any machine. Perhaps you have mild dyslexia and have never noticed?
In line with what Clonkex said, micro stutter and input lag could be the issue - but like Clonkex, I to could be talking via a different orifice. When I got micro stutter in game for example I can try moving in 2 directions ie forward and left and it will only move forward, but then a second or so later I suddenly move left even though I have already changed to another direction like stepping backwards - even in single player.
If your using a laptop how sure are you your touch pad isnt accidentaly repositioning the cursor due to your hands position while typing? Also I did state
Quote: "Im probably wrong"


Its up to you if you test it or not. I was simply making a suggestion, I dont think precision is the issue but perhaps the OS/apps use of different combinations of the different timers available being screwed up.
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Clonkex
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Posted: 21st Sep 2014 17:29
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Quote: "If your using a laptop how sure are you your touch pad isnt accidentaly repositioning the cursor due to your hands position while typing?"


Ah, this is a big one! Should've thought of it myself.

On a laptop, it's best to use a real mouse and disable the touchpad because you often (even without noticing) touch the touchpad and cause all sorts of weird and annoying things to happen. Mum and Dad both regularly use laptops and they always keep the touchpad disabled, because until I discovered what was going on they couldn't work out why the cursor constantly selected random stuff and moved to different areas of the text. Definitely check this if you're on a laptop.


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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 21st Sep 2014 17:46
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Quote: "Quote: "If your using a laptop how sure are you your touch pad isnt accidentaly repositioning the cursor due to your hands position while typing?""


I have it disabled for the reasons you've given.

Quote: "Quote: "Now why would a timing precision issue cause typed characters to appear out of order?"

Quote: "These all look like some sort of timing issue to me""


I wonder who said that?



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gamerboots
16
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Joined: 8th Dec 2008
Location: USA
Posted: 26th Sep 2014 12:36
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Quote: "I firmly believe TGC will release an updated version of DBPro when Reloaded is finished."


In view of this:

Quote: "Lee has already had to do a lot of work on DBPro to make it good enough for Reloaded, including fixing memory leaks, bugs and making the compiler a gazillion times faster. "


I am thinking the same.

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