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Geek Culture / Perhaps just nostalgia talking, but...

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Indicium
15
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Joined: 26th May 2008
Location:
Posted: 4th Dec 2014 15:09
Quote: "Everything before uni is all about problem recognition and memorisation"


I wish my A Level in Chemistry was that easy.
Ortu
DBPro Master
16
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Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 4th Dec 2014 18:18
Clonkex, VanB, exactly, pretty much agree with all of that

Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 9th Dec 2014 18:31
WHOA!

TGC just emailed me this morning about the AppGameKit 2 Winter Deal, which takes 40% off, which in USD means the price is $59.40!

So guess what I just bought?

This makes me so happy! I've been playing with the demo so much and it really brings back the feeling of those days of programming in DBP. I can't wait to make a small game with it!

I'll probably remake Breakout but make it so that you bounce the ball off of a 2px by 6px paddle and it gets 200% faster with each bounce. I'll call it EXTREME BREAKOUT FOR THE ELITE or some such.

Now couple that idea with something like Space Invaders and you've got a ridiculous game!

Ortu
DBPro Master
16
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Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 9th Dec 2014 21:17
Yeah, I got the email as well. I've never been terribly interested in AppGameKit, but i have t to admit 40% of is a tempting deal. I would get it except we have already spent everything we could budget for Christmas and apparently my family still needs things like food, clothing, and shelter.

I say they should just evolve past these things and let me get on with making games

Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 11th Dec 2014 17:48
After playing with it for a couple of days, I can definitely say it's well worth the money. I am so glad I bought it! I forgot how much easier it is to program in BASIC, although I still find myself adding {} under functions out of habit sometimes and then wonder why it throws a compile error

Clonkex
Forum Vice President
13
Years of Service
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Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 12th Dec 2014 03:20
Quote: "although I still find myself adding {} under functions out of habit sometimes and then wonder why it throws a compile error"


lol

Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 12th Dec 2014 03:56
I actually prefer coding without those curly braces, to tell you the truth. I like how BASIC and Python just use indentation for identifying code blocks, I find it a lot more readable.

Also I don't have to deal with this kind of crap:



I HATE when people don't put curly braces on their own line, it's very irritating to me. I'd rather the braces didn't exist at all. They only take up more lines and add two more things to worry about getting right.

Ortu
DBPro Master
16
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Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 12th Dec 2014 04:34 Edited at: 12th Dec 2014 04:35
I actually prefer to open the brace on the same line, and it irritates me when people make them hang. I know hanging is more standard for things like c#, c++, and java, though in-line is fairly common in javascript.

Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 12th Dec 2014 05:05
It is up to personal preference, at least they don't force you to use it one way over the other.

I just don't like them on the same line because it makes reading blocks trickier for me. Dunno why, just does.

The Zoq2
14
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Joined: 4th Nov 2009
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Posted: 12th Dec 2014 16:12
I prefer brackets on the next line because it makes it slightly easier to see where the matching bracket is. I also prefer brackets over both indentation and keywords because I find it easier to find them than keywords and it's hard to tell where a function ends without them, in python for example.

The nice thing about forcing indentation like python does it is that new programmers will learn to use indentation making it so much easier to see whats going on. I had a friend in my old class that had a line containing this: }}};} because he didn't propperly indent his code. That was pretty hard to read

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
Ortu
DBPro Master
16
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Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 12th Dec 2014 18:58
A good editor should highlight the matching bracket and/or run a vertical line to block off the block. With proper indenting it shouldn't even really matter as when you get to a closing bracket, the first line straight up with any content is the opener, whether that is an opening bracket, or the block logic statement. With a hang, you look up to the first line of content then look up again to the line above that. It is just not as concise. All personal preference though



I like the forced indent in python but dislike the feeling that nothing is ever 'officially' closed. If you lose the tab formatting, in say a copy paste, it is a nightmare to untangle.

Seditious
10
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Joined: 2nd Aug 2013
Location: France
Posted: 12th Dec 2014 19:42
I think inline brackets is a standard Java thing, and IMO it looks ugly as hell and makes the code less readable (easy to confuse with a function declaration that uses several lines). Hanging looks much better and to me makes more sense considering the meaning.
TheComet
16
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Joined: 18th Oct 2007
Location: I`m under ur bridge eating ur goatz.
Posted: 14th Dec 2014 15:02 Edited at: 14th Dec 2014 15:03
Quote: "I like the forced indent in python but dislike the feeling that nothing is ever 'officially' closed"


I've seen people compensate for that by using comments:



Changed to:


But I feel that clutters it more. A good editor will highlight which block you're in anyway, so I presume people who write python code like that are using something stupid like IDLE or notepad.

As to the braces, this is also a style people use:


It keeps the braces on the same indentation level and it doesn't waste an extra line of code.

I like offending people. People who get offended should be offended. -- Linus Torvalds
The Zoq2
14
Years of Service
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Joined: 4th Nov 2009
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Posted: 14th Dec 2014 18:12
That last brace style is ugly and I don't think I have ever seen it used before. I guess it's a good compromise but I personally feel like some whitespace in the code makes it a lot more readable

Quote: "

But I feel that clutters it more. A good editor will highlight which block you're in anyway, so I presume people who write python code like that are using something stupid like IDLE or notepad."


I don't think I know of any editor that does indentation highlighting, Vim which I use defenitivley doesnt but that's more of a text editor, pycharm which is made for python doesn't do it AFAIK and neighter does eclipse with python plugins

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
TheComet
16
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Joined: 18th Oct 2007
Location: I`m under ur bridge eating ur goatz.
Posted: 14th Dec 2014 18:47
Quote: "pycharm which is made for python doesn't do it AFAIK "


PyCharm doesn't highlight it per se, but it makes it clear when you make a mistake. I'm sure there's a plugin somewhere.

I like offending people. People who get offended should be offended. -- Linus Torvalds
Clonkex
Forum Vice President
13
Years of Service
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Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 15th Dec 2014 12:32
Quote: "I HATE when people don't put curly braces on their own line, it's very irritating to me."


I agree! Makes the block feel asymmetrical. And more difficult to read.

Quote: "As to the braces, this is also a style people use:"


Ew, that last example is horrid! Never seen anyone do that before, and it's messy as heck.

Van B
Moderator
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 15th Dec 2014 12:47
I'm the same, the other layouts just seem completely wrong to me. It could be worse though, SQL's version of curly brackets are BEGIN and END, a completely horrible way to format code.

I am the one who knocks...
Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 15th Dec 2014 16:47
Quote: "Ew, that last example is horrid! Never seen anyone do that before, and it's messy as heck."


I would still take it over the first way, though!

MonoDevelop used to drive me nuts because it would either format blocks the first way, or somehow would miss that I hit enter twice and thus I'd have something along the lines of the last example. I would have to go in and adjust and it made me mad more often than not. MonoDevelop is perhaps one of the worst IDEs I've come across in a long time, and it sucks because there's not many alternatives for Unity. Yet another reason I missed coding with DarkBASIC!

Matty H
15
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Joined: 7th Oct 2008
Location: England
Posted: 15th Dec 2014 19:05
Quote: "MonoDevelop is perhaps one of the worst IDEs I've come across in a long time, and it sucks because there's not many alternatives for Unity. "


I want to dedicate a new forum section to how bad MonoDevelop is(with Unity at least), but I wont. I will just say, it sucks!

Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 15th Dec 2014 19:16
There actually is a section on the Unity forums about how bad it is on Mac. On Mac it's unstable, frequently crashes, slows to a crawl, and wipes files clean sometimes.

On Windows it still slows down, but I have yet for it to crash completely.

What's even worse is that the Unity team seem to completely ignore those bugs, as they've persisted through 3.5.x to 4.5 (at least as far as I know).

Really strange, especially since Unity was originally designed on and for the Mac, you'd think they'd make sure they'd do everything they can to keep their original platform working well!

Seditious
10
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Joined: 2nd Aug 2013
Location: France
Posted: 15th Dec 2014 19:28
Quote: "What's even worse is that the Unity team seem to completely ignore those bugs, as they've persisted through 3.5.x to 4.5 (at least as far as I know). "


Do the Unity team actually maintain MonoDevelop themselves?
Clonkex
Forum Vice President
13
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Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 16th Dec 2014 00:55
Quote: "I want to dedicate a new forum section to how bad MonoDevelop is"


Yes!

Quote: "Do the Unity team actually maintain MonoDevelop themselves?"


No!

Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 16th Dec 2014 03:21
They don't maintain it but they do modify to fit the needs of Unity. Probably what broke it, actually.

I forget where I read this but I think Unity announced they're working on a new IDE altogether? One that will actually work, or is that just wishful thinking?

Ortu
DBPro Master
16
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Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 16th Dec 2014 06:09
yeah that last one just looks weird.

I guess I kind of unconciously read the braces as BASIC something along the lines of:



where '{' == 'then' and '}' == 'endif'

In the BASIC style, the first looks more correct, the second feels weird, and I guess this just carried over into other languages.

I also in-line it sometimes, if it is something very short:

if(iOpenABlock){ doStuff(); }

Clonkex
Forum Vice President
13
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Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 16th Dec 2014 11:42
Quote: "I forget where I read this but I think Unity announced they're working on a new IDE altogether? One that will actually work, or is that just wishful thinking?"


I think I heard something about that also, but I know naught about it.

Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 16th Dec 2014 15:21
I can't find anything about it anywhere, so sadly it appears to not be true. That's ok, as I'm probably going to stick with Unreal for my future 3D games.

Clonkex
Forum Vice President
13
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Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 18th Dec 2014 07:06
Quote: "I can't find anything about it anywhere, so sadly it appears to not be true."


I think I must have just heard people saying they want it to happen

Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 18th Dec 2014 07:31
Quote: "I think I must have just heard people saying they want it to happen"


Sadly I think you're right. It's a shame because with the right IDE Unity would be ridiculously elite. However its popularity has actually been slipping ever since Unreal came out with their $19/month deal that you can cancel at any time. It is a bit more complicated but I do like the Unreal editor a lot more than Unity's. Unreal also has the advantage of having direct contact with the source code and Blueprints makes testing ideas ridiculously easy.

But like I said (to get kind of back on topic here!), despite how awesome Unity and Unreal are, they're just missing something that TGC has, that I am now reliving with AGK. I really don't know what it is, other than how easy the language is and how friendly the community can be. No other forum has what this place has.

Clonkex
Forum Vice President
13
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Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 18th Dec 2014 08:26
Quote: "Unreal also has the advantage of having direct contact with the source code and Blueprints makes testing ideas ridiculously easy."


Yes, but Unity has the massive advantage of being cross-platform with just about every platform there is!

Quote: "to get kind of back on topic here!"


Nicely done

Dar13
15
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Joined: 12th May 2008
Location: Microsoft VisualStudio 2010 Professional
Posted: 18th Dec 2014 15:14
Quote: " Yes, but Unity has the massive advantage of being cross-platform with just about every platform there is!"

Unreal supports just about every platform Unity does now IIRC. The editor itself doesn't, but the resulting executable does.

I'd pick up AppGameKit (or *cough*DB Elite*cough*) if I had some spare cash, but the holidays have me strapped.

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