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Geek Culture / Elite dangerous offline error

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Scotty1973
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Posted: 18th Nov 2014 20:36
Oh dear I think this is a big own goal!! Elite Dangerous has no offline/ single player version. So far there are 524 pages of the forum about it :-
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=58789

Don't seem like a popular decision!

Scotty
Daniel TGC
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Posted: 18th Nov 2014 22:28
Frontier Studios said years ago that this was their general goal (way before the kickstarter) In today's world I don't see any issues with this. A shared dynamic universe is pretty much expected with other games like EVE Online out there. I think they'd get more flack not creating a world like this then just running with an offline single player game. I look forward to sharing my skyspace with other players, and kicking their asses but I'm going to wait until it's out of beta before I do.
Clonkex
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Posted: 19th Nov 2014 00:50
Quote: "In today's world I don't see any issues with this."


That's what most people assume, but the simple fact is the internet isn't ready for this kind of game yet. It's not reliable enough. I really hate games that won't let me play just because they have to be online and my internet is down, or even worse, their servers are down.

Games that require an always-on connection INVARIABLY make people unhappy because it relies so heavily on something that is entirely outside their control. It's just plain frustrating.

So yeah I definitely agree that having no offline mode is upsetting and disappointing. GOOOOO Star Citizen!!

Indicium
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Posted: 19th Nov 2014 00:53
Quote: "That's what most people assume, but the simple fact is the internet isn't ready for this kind of game yet. It's not reliable enough."


Move to a city.
Slow Programmer
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Posted: 19th Nov 2014 04:31
I have been watching this for a long time, but the lack of offline makes it a no buy to me. They also promised no DRM which is not true if you have to be online on their server to play. I just can't support a company that does not honor their promises.

Thinking of something witty to put here.
Daniel TGC
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Posted: 19th Nov 2014 07:58
@Clonkex

Sorry I disagree. I've been playing online games for a few years now. In fact most of the games I play have some online component I'm always using. World of Tanks, Injustice gods among us (iOS), Eve Online, etc.

MMO's are pretty stable these days if there's any major issues it's usually down to the users own weak wifi signal or downloading stuff at the same time. With proper network management disconnections and drop outs don't have to occur often, if at all.

Heck I've been playing many games using the Onlive Microconsole, which streams games directly from remote servers to my console. I'd say I get network hiccups once or twice a week maybe?

If you want a real player driven universe with dynamic synchronized events then this kind of cloud computing setup is exactly what's needed. If you want a single player experience I'd go download X3. I wouldn't look towards next gen gaming, because with the introduction of XBOX One, and the increase in popular cloud computing solutions this is going to become the norm over the next few years for major game publishers.

Btw, there's always Star-wraith games, those are fantastic single player experiences
BiggAdd
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Posted: 19th Nov 2014 10:09
Quote: "Sorry I disagree. I've been playing online games for a few years now. In fact most of the games I play have some online component I'm always using. World of Tanks, Injustice gods among us (iOS), Eve Online, etc."


Thats because you have internet that works most of the time. There are places out there where the internet connection is very unstable.

Elite Dangerous has a single player mode, but it requires you to be online to play it, this is DRM and quite frankly I disagree with it.

I would agree with you if it was purely a multiplayer game, but its not.

Not only that, they aren't allowing third parties to host their own servers, so in 5 years down the line if the company can no longer host your servers, what happens to your game?

This is DRM purely to support the microtransaction business model they have going on, which is just wrong, if you've paid $50 for the game in the first place.

FLAME123
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Posted: 19th Nov 2014 10:21
But if one were to look at this way:

From what I understand, there is not going to be a boxed version of the game. Therefore, a download was required to obtain it and thus, you must be in possession of a semi-stable internet connection. So surely the always online DRM can't be that bad, I'm sure if you were playing single-player, you only need an internet connection to start-up the game every time you play it and it also saves having Frontier distribute via a third party client for DRM purposes. So overall, I think I can see their reasoning.

But then again, I don't know too much about Elite Dangerous, (although it is super cool from what I've seen), so I could be talking complete nonsense.
Van B
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Posted: 19th Nov 2014 10:51
That's a shame. But, really if I'm playing it, I'll be playing it with my friends anyway - so long as there is control over servers, the ability to run my own server (like Minecraft or Space Engineers), or have private games then it'll be fine. I have 156mb broadband, multiplayer games don't faze me one bit

I'm dragging my heels though, it's one of the few games I'm actually looking forward to, and don't want to ruin it with the typical beta gameplay issues.

I am the one who knocks...
Matty H
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Posted: 19th Nov 2014 22:05 Edited at: 19th Nov 2014 22:06
Elite: Dangerous Offline Mode - Q&A

Quote: "From David Braben:

Each of the “Elite” games pushed the boundaries of the technology available. With Elite: Dangerous a major new feature is playing online, and we are pushing that hard now. Offline support was not one of our original aims, though we did believe we could support it at the start of the project. We do a great deal of processing in the cloud, and this benefits everyone playing. We had considered that an online connection is a reasonable pre-requisite for a game delivered online. I am really sorry this has upset people, but we have a strong, consistent vision that we do not want to compromise.

Below we have collected common questions from backers and the press and our answers so we can be clear about the situation.

Can I still play in single player mode?
Yes. Some people have thought that dropping 100% offline play means there wouldn’t be a single-player mode - to be clear, the single-player game is already there, but it requires a low bandwidth online connection for the reasons we explained.
I’ve even played on a laptop using a tethered connection on the train.

When was the offline mode dropped?
The decision was made recently, and was not made lightly as we have been looking for ways to satisfy everyone. We announced shortly after we concluded that it wasn’t possible to create an offline mode without unacceptably compromising the game.

Offline-only support was a requested feature during the Kickstarter – why was it dropped?
Back during the Kickstarter, we were clear about the vision, to make a phenomenal new sequel to Elite in an online world, which we believe we are about to deliver. At the time we believed we could also offer a good single player experience, and base an acceptable offline-only experience off that. As development has progressed, it has become clear that this last assumption is not the case.

Why wait so long to announce this?
In retrospect we should have shared the fact that we were struggling with this aspect with the community, but we were still trying to find a solution. As features were implemented, for the best results we chose to prioritise delivery of the online single and multiplayer experiences, with a view to providing the offline version later in development. We had to make a decision for the good of the game, and that is what we did.

What would you lose in offline mode?
We have developed a multi-player game with an unfolding story involving the players, and groups collaborating with specific objectives and taking account of all player’s behaviour. This is what the game is about. Without this it would not be the rich gaming experience that we will deliver, and would be a great disappointment to all players.

Any offline experience would be fundamentally empty. We could write a separate mission system to allow a limited series of fixed missions, but that would still not be a compelling game, and is just the first step in the mountain of work that would be required.

Do you now consider Elite: Dangerous to be an MMO?
Technically, it has always been. There are already over 100,000 people playing in the same world. We believe that always-online entertainment is already a reality for the majority. We are delivering a truly huge game using the best technology and designed to stand the test of time, played for many years to come and still be relevant.

What do you say to people who backed Elite with an offline experience in mind?
Many of the conversations we have had during development focussed on backers wanting to play the game without the downside of online – griefing especially – ie a single player experience. We considered this to be the main issue and focussed on making sure we had a great single player offering. We have also ensured that the solo play mode has a minimal network requirement(about 10 kbps).

Are you confident the servers will be stable come launch day?
Yes, as confident as we can be, because we have been testing our servers throughout the development process, and continue to do so. Our servers are the same ones that Amazon uses, and can (and have) scaled up quickly to deal with demand when needed.

What is Frontier's plan for when the servers shut down?
We do not plan to shut the servers down, but understand it is a reasonable question. We are at the beginning of the game not the end and are focused on creating a game that we hope will be played for many years in the future. We do plan to take regular archives of the game and the servers, to preserve the game for the future.

Could the server code be released publicly some day when the servers are shut down?
Yes. This is something we would do if for whatever reason we cannot keep the game going.

Will offline mode ever be implemented? Why not create a second "offline galaxy" with different secrets than the online one?
It is not out of the question we will create a cut-down game that is offline only, but this is not currently in our plan. It would still be a big undertaking to do well.

Will you give people refunds?
We have started responding to requests where there is a clear outcome:
- Those who have pre-ordered an Elite: Dangerous release version from our online store and have therefore not yet played the game are eligible for a refund.
- Those who have already been playing the game online in the Alpha and/or Beta phases, regardless of whether they backed the project via Kickstarter or purchased access to Alpha and/or Beta through our online store, are not eligible for a refund.

We want to make sure we treat each person's situation with the thoroughness it deserves, and have contacted each of them to ask that they bear with us over the next few working days if their circumstances do not fit either criteria above as we look into individual requests.

Is offline mode an impossible problem, or just unfeasible?
It is a creative decision, not wanting to produce an empty game. It is technically possible, but it would be a largely separate game development.

Why not delay the decisions and put extra resources on this after the release?
We will review the decision after release, but our priority is moving the game forwards for the great majority of players, and are wary of producing a sub-standard game.

Was this because offline players are less likely to get involved in microtransactions? Is this just about the money?
No. We have been clear and consistent. This is about the game experience. I have always been against ‘pay to win’ – in a game like Elite: Dangerous there are a great many opportunities we could have taken already that would have amounted to ‘pay to win’ but we have chosen not to.

This whole issue comes down to what the vision is of the game we are making, and whether people trust us to make the right decisions. We made this decision with heavy hearts but for the right reasons.

David Braben "


Daniel TGC
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Posted: 20th Nov 2014 18:06
Whooo, can't wait! If he can play it tethered on the train of all places, I don't see an issue.

Like I say, this kind of cloud computing game (it's not DRM bigadd sorry!) updating the universe I'm really excited! I can't wait to see all the stock market, events and other information unfolding in the game universe. I'm also glad my local CPU won't be tied up generating all this stuff.
BiggAdd
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Posted: 20th Nov 2014 23:41 Edited at: 21st Nov 2014 00:07
Quote: "it's not DRM bigadd sorry!"


It is, its exactly DRM. If this game was just multiplayer, like an MMO then it wouldn't be DRM, I would agree with you.
But this game has a single player component, so any form on online connection that requires you to play it is DRM, no matter how you spin it.

They are also refusing to release the server software, so only they will host it... sounds an awful lot like DRM to me!
This is no different than EA stating that Sim City couldn't be run offline because it was far too complicated!

You don't need cloud servers to run this, its just an excuse, sorry!


I'm no poo-pooing the game, I've been following this game since its Kickstarter, as an Oculus Rift owner this is one of the games I have been eager to try. But you are forgetting that even though this issue may not effect you, there are people out there who simply can't enjoy these games because they are lacking stable internet.

Single player games should always have an offline option. At least they are refunding people who bought the game under the assumption that it was going to have an offline component, so that I can give them credit for.

I can't trust companies to not mess about with their games in some form or another in order to suck money out of microtransactions. Blizzard came out with the same stuff with Diablo 3, about how there couldn't be an offline component, but we all know that was down to the real money Auction House they put in initially!

Why are cosmetic microtransactions already present in ED when they got a stupid amount of funding? That just worries me. Especially for such an expensive game! I'd put money on the fact that in a years time cosmetics won't be the only thing you are able to buy, especially if they don't get the player base they were hoping for...

Daniel TGC
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Posted: 21st Nov 2014 09:05
Naw it's not DRM, that's something else entirely. Having said that I finally succumbed and bought into the beta... here's my experience.

******************************************************************

Played the tutorials! Great I can fly woooooo.

Play Open World game, made hyperspace jump, got attacked. Mega pleased because other ships came to help, first attacker dead wooooo!

Opps... shot a federal ship by accent, they owned my ass.

Ah well, time to get new ship...

Ok... can't click on confirm, no option to buy stuff... ok guess I'd better hit Bankrupcy... damn...

WAITING FOR SERVER RESPONSE, PLEASE WAIT.
1 min... 2 min, 3, 4, 5, 6... damn it must have crashed right?
Damn can't close the game, have to ALT and TAB, right click the icon and select CLOSE...

Yay game closed.

Logged back in... Open World! Yay... crap... same screen... can only hit bankrupcy...

WAITING FOR SERVER RESPONSE, PLEASE WAIT.

I wait...10 miutes

OMG NOOOOOOOOOOO.

Ok ok I reboot.

Same problem.

Damn...

I check my internet, it's all good! Other games work, can see this site, etc etc.

I disable all my firewalls.

Try again.

WAITING FOR SERVER RESPONSE, PLEASE WAIT.
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ARRRGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHH

Thanks always online game technology! It's lovely NOT being able to die.

Support ticket sent.

Just spent £50 on a game where I can't buy a new ship... hmmmmmm

I'M RELIVING Frontier II: Elite III, First Encounters all over again!

Perhaps I should phone their support and ask them to send me another dozen floppy disk patches? haha
BiggAdd
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Posted: 21st Nov 2014 16:12
I told you so?

Ortu
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Posted: 21st Nov 2014 16:12
If you can't play it unless you connect to and authenticate with thier server, it is effectively DRM. You could maybe argue that it is not technically DRM if it only requires a connection with no authentication, but (not having played it) i would be shocked if you don't have to setup and sign in to a user account in order to play. That is DRM, yes it is a weaker form than some others, not all DRM is created equal, but it is hardly DRM free

TheComet
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Posted: 21st Nov 2014 17:03
Quote: "Thats because you have internet that works most of the time. There are places out there where the internet connection is very unstable.

Elite Dangerous has a single player mode, but it requires you to be online to play it, this is DRM and quite frankly I disagree with it."


I agree with this. I am such a person who has to use his phone as a hotspot for internet access, as our entire house is built out of metal so the wifi is basically useless.

The phone is unreliable and makes online games unplayable for me. Even MineCraft sometimes times out.

I like offending people. People who get offended should be offended. -- Linus Torvalds
Clonkex
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2014 02:03
Quote: "I agree with this. I am such a person who has to use his phone as a hotspot for internet access, as our entire house is built out of metal so the wifi is basically useless."


We use a tethered 3G connection for online games and browsing (at most ~300KB/s), and a satellite connection for extremely high-bandwidth downloading (1MB/s+). It's really frustrating when you're trying to play a singleplayer game and it requires you be online to play. If your internet drops out or someone opens a webpage you CAN'T PLAY.

Quote: "Naw it's not DRM, that's something else entirely."


Agree much! It's not DRM just because you have to be online, no matter what you insist, Ortu and BiggAdd. DRM stands for Digital Rights Management. If the connection is required purely for updating the galaxy, then it's not DRM. If the connection also validates your ownership of the game (which, technically, is ownership of license to the game), then there is a DRM element, but it's not all DRM and would be necessary for gameplay anyway.

bitJericho
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2014 06:23
Quote: "Naw it's not DRM"


Really? You can sell your copy of the game on?

Seditious
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2014 15:15
Quote: "It's not DRM just because you have to be online, no matter what you insist,"


It seems to me they deliberately designed it to require an internet connection, a sort of DRM where people don't realise it's DRM.
FLAME123
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2015 20:43 Edited at: 3rd Jan 2015 22:45
Just thought this was somewhat relevant:



I thought I knew how to embed youtube videos, alas it seems I do not.
Dar13
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2015 21:42
Quote: " It seems to me they deliberately designed it to require an internet connection, a sort of DRM where people don't realise it's DRM. "

It's an MMO. Of course it always has to be online. They just happen to have a mode where you don't play with everyone else but you're still influenced by the events going on in the overworld.

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2015 22:44
Quote: "It seems to me they deliberately designed it to require an internet connection, a sort of DRM where people don't realise it's DRM."
I just realized... Internet browsers have had DRM built in all along! Right under our very noses!!! How DARE Google and Mozilla!?!? Don't even get me started on Internet Explorer/Microsoft.

Van B
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Posted: 5th Jan 2015 11:01
The dude in the video is complaining about the broken installer, not being able to download efficiently through his 5mbs connection.

Seriously, ignore that video - get Elite D and don't think for a seconds that his issue is common, he's a cheap ass, bandwidth dodging blowhard. 7 minutes into his rant he mentions that.

As for the always online thing - well I don't see how else they could have done it and still retained the fairness... like if the game supported offline play, then it would be more likely to be pirated, hacked, abused. I kinda like the idea that I'm playing on a universe that is external and I have no real control over, it's more honest I think. I can't control or influence commodity prices, ship availability, AI, missions etc etc - the way it should be. If there was an offline mode then people would just abuse it - instead of all ED players starting small and working up, we'd see poorly implemented mods and cheats all over the place. We did not buy Elite D to play Garrys Mod in space.

Gamers need to get over DRM, accept it, live with the horror that your PC needs to be connected to the internet these days and people aren't just entitled to do what they want, regardless of the developers wishes. Because - for every gamer who complains about DRM, there are 10,000 gamers getting on with it just fine... and publishers only care about them. I have an extensive library of Steam games that are all DRM, Origin too, ohh and UPlay, and any other commercial game I've bought recently, yet in 1 game from 1 small company it's a travesty!

I am the one who knocks...
Clonkex
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Posted: 5th Jan 2015 14:54
Quote: "If there was an offline mode then people would just abuse it - instead of all ED players starting small and working up, we'd see poorly implemented mods and cheats all over the place."


Why do you say it would be abused? In what way? You do realise the mods wouldn't affect online play, right?

Quote: "Gamers need to get over DRM, accept it, live with the horror that your PC needs to be connected to the internet these days and people aren't just entitled to do what they want, regardless of the developers wishes. Because - for every gamer who complains about DRM, there are 10,000 gamers getting on with it just fine... and publishers only care about them. I have an extensive library of Steam games that are all DRM, Origin too, ohh and UPlay, and any other commercial game I've bought recently, yet in 1 game from 1 small company it's a travesty!"


The issue is not that Frontier added an always-online requirement, it's that they added it after stating specifically that it wouldn't be a requirement.

And for other games, DRM is always a problem. It's just more of an issue with some games (*cough-cough*Ubisoft*cough*) than others. And the issue is not that we can't do what we like with the games (i.e. steal them), it's that when we actually buy the games, the DRM can make them frustratingly unplayable. Steam does a good job, Uplay does not. And when a type of DRM does a bad job, it encourages piracy simply because when you pirate the game the DRM is no longer an issue. I've bought games before and then immediately torrented them because the version I paid for was unplayable due to the heavy and buggy DRM.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: DRM doesn't stop piracy, it just makes legitimate users suffer.

Van B
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Posted: 5th Jan 2015 16:25
It wouldn't matter if it was online or offline - Elite D is not the sort of game that would benefit in the long term from mods IMO, it should be left untainted. Consider what people would add... mining hacks to show which asteroids contain Platinum for example - there, no more having to fly around and find a decent stroid - now you just follow the target to the best resource. Or something that shows the best places to sell commodities - then you have no need to go exploring, you just buy and sell with the insider knowledge. Then your offline save has millions in credit, and your online save is dirt poor in comparison - IMO people will regard the online game as nerfed - rather than being a more organic, fair and controlled system. See, there will be gold encrusted trade routes, and an offline mode would probably reveal all these really easily which I believe would detract from the game.
I think there's a distinct correlation between the mod-ability of a game and the amount of annoying hacking that goes on - case in point, Arma3, DayZ, Minecraft - mod-able to the nth degree and practically every game has some script kiddie hacker making peoples life a misery. I say keep the doors closed, keep ED pure and fair, so when we are impressed by someones stuff in ED, we know it isn't misplaced, we know they had to work their ass off for their ship, cash and gear. I want ED to evolve, not be left in the hands of it's community - who lets face it, mostly have long hair and T-shirts older than most people here. These are not the right people to decide the future of ED.

I'm not usually so adamant, least of all about modding a game - but in the case of Elite D I strongly believe it should be left alone and not tampered with and certainly not abstracted by someones idea of what would make a game more enjoyable. In Elite D, everyone suffers, everyone has to grind to make money to buy new ships and loadout, everyone has to explore to find a good trade route, or stroid belt. If people could just download a mod to remove the hard work, then I might not even want to play it. If I see someone whether online, Youtube, whatever, and they have a cool ship, lots of credits, or can say something about the game from a learned position, then I expect them to have worked towards that, otherwise whats the point in watching or even being interested.

I hope beyond measure that nobody gets to mod Elite D beyond making their own skins or visual enhancements - the game logic, universe system, and dare I say it, grind workload should be left alone. Sorry to ramble, I guess my whole point is that Elite D right now is a universe with distinct rules and laws that everyone has to abide by, and that's a pretty cool thing that should be maintained.

I don't think that the DRM issue is even why ED works like it does - I think the game was setup to take the galaxy data from a server rather than store it locally - and Braben is getting old , he probably had a decision at some point... either online galaxy with private groups and solo play, or offline galaxy - not both... and with that 'choice' theres only 1 option. Lets face it - we've seen how clunky it can get with Space Engineers private servers and they probably decided that solid server code and systems is where the time should be spent. It shouldn't matter what a developer states before a game is released, things change, we of all people should understand that - maybe the flaws in having an offline mode were pointed out to him and he decided to just avoid it all and assume that anyone playing Elite Dangerous which requires a download will have an internet connection.

In 1983 Elite came with the worlds actual worst copy protection system - the Lenslock protection was so flawed that people just guessed the pass character rather than try using it - it was a little plastic fold-out screen that you put on your TV screen so you could decipher a character (One size fits all TV sizes somehow, impossibly somehow). It was horrible and ridiculous - Elite fans should be used to stupid copy protection systems

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FLAME123
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Posted: 6th Jan 2015 00:36
Quote: "Seriously, ignore that video - get Elite D and don't think for a seconds that his issue is common, he's a cheap ass, bandwidth dodging blowhard. 7 minutes into his rant he mentions that."


Don't worry, I will get Elite Dangerous, that is certain, a game described by Eurogamer as: "Euro Truck Simulator 2 in space" pretty much sold me. However, I gotta save up first . I just found the video rather entertaining so I though it'd be good to share it.
Clonkex
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Posted: 6th Jan 2015 01:38
Quote: "Don't worry, I will get Elite Dangerous, that is certain, a game described by Eurogamer as: "Euro Truck Simulator 2 in space" pretty much sold me."


I own both games. I've barely played ETS2, but I love Elite Dangerous

bitJericho
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Posted: 6th Jan 2015 02:08
Looked really cool until I saw it's got a bunch of DLC. I think I'll pass on this one. I'd rather buy the game once, not piecemeal.

Quik
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Posted: 8th Jan 2015 01:38
Quote: "Looked really cool until I saw it's got a bunch of DLC. I think I'll pass on this one. I'd rather buy the game once, not piecemeal."

The things it's got now is literarily just skins. Ship Paints.



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bitJericho
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Posted: 8th Jan 2015 01:48
Keyword:

Quote: "now"


Clonkex
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Posted: 8th Jan 2015 03:42
Quote: "The things it's got now is literarily just skins. Ship Paints."


Absolutely. You don't even buy the skins in-game (you do it via their website), so you need never even know about the microtransactions

Quote: "Keyword:
"now""


I count 13 "now"s on this page.

Indicium
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Posted: 8th Jan 2015 03:46
Quote: "I count 13 "now"s on this page."


Quote: "The things it's got now is literarily just skins. Ship Paints."


Quote: "The things it's got now is literarily just skins."


Quote: "got now is literarily just skins."


Quote: "got now is"


Quote: "now"


Quik
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Posted: 8th Jan 2015 08:02
They have stated that they plan expansions though yes - That's true.
But then again, how does that differ from literarily any game in history?
There's a difference between a half an hour DLC for 5€, and a fully fledged DLC that actually ads content and new features, in the vain of most MMOs - and I suppose more "old school" content.
While I guess time will tell, if you look at their planned features it's fairly easy to see how I think they mean.
I think that's a very fair - and "realistic" way of doing it. - But that might just be me.



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Clonkex
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FLAME123
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Posted: 19th Jan 2015 21:55
On an ever so slightly unrelated note, does anybody know how much space the game takes up?
Van B
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Posted: 19th Jan 2015 23:13
According to my install, it's only 3.6gb

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Clonkex
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Posted: 20th Jan 2015 02:00
Quote: "On an ever so slightly unrelated note, does anybody know how much space the game takes up?"


5.05GB for me

FLAME123
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Posted: 21st Jan 2015 22:06
It's 5.05GB for me as well (I finally bought it.)

Or maybe Van B wasn't including the single player training mission thingies that came as a separate executable, that would explain the smaller file size.
Clonkex
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Posted: 21st Jan 2015 22:54
Quote: "Or maybe Van B wasn't including the single player training mission thingies that came as a separate executable, that would explain the smaller file size."


Ah yes of course. Did you start by downloading that and then discover that you hadn't actually downloaded the full game? I did. And with our slow internet is was rather annoying. They need to make it more obvious that there's a selection to make

FLAME123
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2015 00:31 Edited at: 22nd Jan 2015 00:34
Quote: "Did you start by downloading that and then discover that you hadn't actually downloaded the full game?"


Yes.. yes I did. The client could do with some work.

The game however, holy cow, it really is Euro Truck Simulator 2 in Space, and that is by no means a bad thing. I love Euro Truck Simulator and I love space, this game is almost perfect for me. It just needs to have the ability to land on planets (y'know, like Evochron Mercenary but with all the loveliness Elite: Dangerous brings) and then I'm settled.

That is, until Star Citizen finally gets released.
Wolf
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2015 01:04
I don't care!

"When I contradict myself, I am telling the truth"
"absurdity has become necessity"
Clonkex
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2015 07:50
Quote: "The game however, holy cow, it really is Euro Truck Simulator 2 in Space, and that is by no means a bad thing. I love Euro Truck Simulator and I love space, this game is almost perfect for me. It just needs to have the ability to land on planets (y'know, like Evochron Mercenary but with all the loveliness Elite: Dangerous brings) and then I'm settled."


Haha yeah, it's really good! And I think flying down onto planets is something that's planned, so that'll be awesome!

Quote: "That is, until Star Citizen finally gets released."


Well duh

Quik
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2015 08:08
Star citizens combat module really looks horrible though, VERY arcady :/ me no impressed.

Elite Dangerous has much better combat - in my opinion atleast.

Though i've yet to find one of those great battles i've heard so much about...


I also think elite dangerous is a bit too forgiving, giving you 95% insurence by default



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Clonkex
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2015 10:39
Quote: "Star citizens combat module really looks horrible though, VERY arcady :/ me no impressed."


How on earth did you arrive at that conclusion? Star Citizen's combat is way more realistic than Elite's!

Ok, so for the Dogfighting Module, the combat has been balanced; i.e. the smallest Aurora can still (albeit with difficulty) compete against a fully outfitted Hornet. When the persistent universe launches, all the ships will be given their real stats.

Quik
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2015 14:54 Edited at: 22nd Jan 2015 14:56
The combat looks dull to be honest, Sure it might look better later, but that's with ALL of star citizen; "We got this to show.. but it looks horrible; surely it will get fixed"
But no, I won't take "it will come" as an answer, I will look at star citizen at face value; What they got looks arcady and booring - and not even close to elite dangerous.

For reference, while this was an older video, this is what i'm basing my opinion on:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB8ZAcFj2AE



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Dar13
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2015 15:16
Quote: " But no, I won't take "it will come" as an answer, I will look at star citizen at face value; What they got looks arcady and booring - and not even close to elite dangerous."

Kinda unfair considering Star Citizen isn't even at an alpha stage yet while Eliteangerous is a released product.

Quik
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2015 16:00
Quote: "Kinda unfair considering Star Citizen isn't even at an alpha stage yet while Eliteangerous is a released product."

And theyve been in development for roughly the same time, AFAIK
Thing is, Star citizen is immensivly ambitious - and sure, "it will all come in time"
But what they HAVE isnt very impressive. And that's what i've gone to judge projects from, and it's especially important to judge star citizen, that's soo ambitious from a realistic standpoint, from what they can show, and not what they've promised.

If they've promised great and realistic combat, I will believe it once it's in our hands to see.



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Clonkex
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2015 03:25
Quote: "The combat looks dull to be honest"


I truly don't understand your view. Even with that older video the combat looks great. How on earth is it arcady? You even have the most realistic spaceflight physics ever. Elite Dangerous has nothing over Star Citizen in terms of combat.

Quote: "But no, I won't take "it will come" as an answer, I will look at star citizen at face value;"


You don't have to. It's been way less arcady than ED for a long time

Quik
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2015 11:17
Quote: "You don't have to. It's been way less arcady than ED for a long time "

I can't see that, I guess i'd have to try it myself in order to see it; I can't see it though. I find it hard to explain aswell - but my reaction is that it just feels arcady in comparison, then again maybe i'd have to try it myself in order to see it...



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Clonkex
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2015 11:37
Quote: "I can't see that, I guess i'd have to try it myself in order to see it; I can't see it though. I find it hard to explain aswell - but my reaction is that it just feels arcady in comparison, then again maybe i'd have to try it myself in order to see it..."


I guess it probably looks more arcady because there's so much more going on onscreen. ED is a lot simpler visually and somehow feels more solid. But SC feels, gameplay-wise, more realistic (and will get even further ahead of ED as time goes on in that respect) and the latest versions of Arena Commander (the Dogfighting Module) are already visually better (by quite a lot) than that video you linked.

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