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Geek Culture / No no no no no no no no no no!

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easter bunny
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Posted: 10th Feb 2015 06:29
Windows 365 is trademarked!

Just after I posted about Windows 10 and hoping it wouldn't be subscription based!


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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 10th Feb 2015 07:16
No no no no no no no no no no no no no no

Quik
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Posted: 10th Feb 2015 07:31
Now, i dunno the pricing nor do i know the model, but IF it's a monthly subscription then that might be a good thing I feel. There's a lot of people out there that just doesnt afford the price of windows (windows is in fact heavily pirated), so that might mean less piracy and that more people can afford it.. More affordable seems to be the way to go (many game engines does the same for example, and photoshop)
provided it's monthly, if it's yearly then there's really no reason for it; At all.



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Dar13
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Posted: 10th Feb 2015 12:39
Meh. I guess I'll have to setup a true Linux install eventually. Microsoft, this is a poor move. Subscriptions are not as affordable as a bulk payment(especially considering how cheap Windows is compared to Photoshop).

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 10th Feb 2015 14:25 Edited at: 10th Feb 2015 14:27
Quote: "Subscriptions are not as affordable as a bulk payment"
They know this. Bulk payments give them less money than subscriptions. The idea behind subscription payments is that they appear more affordable (only 12 dollars a month; you can totally afford that, right!?!?!), and in fact, they pipe more of your money to the company. Also, subscription payments just seem modern, so any subscription based software out there will seem new and refreshing to customers.

Aye, this is the path MS wants to go down, out of greed. How sad. Have you all paid your monthly OS bill?

Dar13
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Posted: 10th Feb 2015 14:38
That statement was more directed at Quik since he said that subscription models are more affordable. Unless that subscription model is ~$1/month it won't be more affordable for the average user since they usually keep operating systems for 3+ years.

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 10th Feb 2015 14:46
Gotcha. I was making a point sort of my own. And indeed, that would actually be a pretty good price.

JLMoondog
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Posted: 10th Feb 2015 14:51
To give you some perspective on how expensive the sub model can be...

I played World of Warcraft religiously for over 10 years since 2am release day! To put that into perspective...in those ten years, including buying expansions, I spent....

$2098 USD!!


Sad thing...I don't regret one dollar....

Chris Tate
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Posted: 10th Feb 2015 18:16 Edited at: 10th Feb 2015 18:18
Quote: "Sad thing...I don't regret one dollar...."


I am sure you had many worthy memories; what would the world be like today if not for WoW? I merely subscribed for 4 months (twice), if it were not for a number of pursuits I would have subscribed for a decade myself.

Quote: "
Windows 365 is trademarked!

Just after I posted about Windows 10 and hoping it wouldn't be subscription based!"


I think the subscription would be for Windows 365 and not Windows 10; if Windows 365 is ever established.

Quote: "Microsoft has announced that Windows 10 will be free ... As of right now, it does not seem like Microsoft is planning to release 'Windows 365' in the immediate future,"


Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 10th Feb 2015 19:28
Well, allow me to point out that simply trademarking a name is, in no way, a significant indication as to the future of Microsoft's pricing strategy.

Windows 365 could simply be trademarked because they want to reserve the title for something different - maybe they're planning on making a back up service, similar to SkyDrive (but infinitely better), which as the name implies would be run 24/7, 365 days a year.

It would be really dumb to be pushing the fact that Windows 10 is a free upgrade, only to announce at a later date it will then be a monthly fee to keep it (or any future version of Windows) running.

Also, MOST companies that do a subscription based model also offer perpetual licenses. The best example of this is professional-level video editing software, such as Avid. Avid offers two ways to buy Media Composer 8; you can buy a perpetual license for $999, or pay $49.99/month and get the same access, plus the added benefits of guaranteed updates without the extra cost, for as long as you keep the subscription.

As a result of Avid's subscription model, users end up saving money in the long run because upgrades are essentially free, and you're only charged $49.99/month. Of course not everyone can afford that, and some people don't mind missing out on the guaranteed updates.

Adobe has shot themselves in the foot by only doing the subscription model; that's why I went with CyberLink Director Suite, but that's a different subject for a different thread.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, let's not jump to conclusions, as I highly doubt Microsoft would make a move that bad. You can almost bet that if they did, Apple's prices would drop rather significantly and suddenly would be the preferred PC by consumers, because I guarantee you most people won't want to mess with Linux.

Let's also assume that if Microsoft would be that boneheaded, they'll at least offer the two pricing strategies; perpetual licenses, as well as subscription based pricing. Honestly, would it be that bad if they offered it that way? I wouldn't subscribe but if it saved me money additionally and guaranteed updates to versions 11 and 12 would be no extra cost? Might be worth it for some people!

"If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." - Carl Sagan
Dar13
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Posted: 10th Feb 2015 21:26
Quote: "because I guarantee you most people won't want to mess with Linux."

It's usually easier to switch to Linux than it is to Mac from Windows. There are entire ecosystems on Linux dedicated to being extremely similar to Windows in ways that aren't possible on Mac.

It honestly doesn't matter if Windows 10 is or isn't subscription-based, if any version of Windows becomes subscription-based I'm out. They would be radically changing the cost-benefit dynamic of typically cheap software which is not something you usually want to do to long-time power users. Even if upgrades are guaranteed for the duration of your subscription, that would mean they're transitioning to either a rolling-release (which is inherently more unstable) or a crappy imitation of it where there are "releases" every couple of years that really should be either regular upgrades or service packs just as it is now.

Subscription models for anything other than enterprise-level support should not be accepted as it is considerably more expensive to pay a monthly fee instead of a flat purchase.

Both Microsoft and Apple are moving to this yearly or nearly yearly release model and their software is suffering for it. I've heard that the latest version of MacOS isn't polished or stable compared to previous versions. Windows is already notorious for being unstable, the last thing they need is less stability.

/rant

All in all I hope Microsoft doesn't do anything stupid.

Phaelax
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Posted: 11th Feb 2015 06:13
Monthly fee to use windows? Looks like I'll never upgrade.

Am I going to be required to have an Internet connection just to use my computer?


"I like offending people, because I think people who get offended should be offended." - Linus Torvalds
Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 11th Feb 2015 06:25
Quote: "Am I going to be required to have an Internet connection just to use my computer?"

DRM

I guess we can only hope some of the things Yodaman said, which all are pretty reasonable expectations. A service referred to as Windows 365 actually sounds pretty plausible to me.

Quik
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Posted: 12th Feb 2015 00:17
Quote: "That statement was more directed at Quik since he said that subscription models are more affordable. Unless that subscription model is ~$1/month it won't be more affordable for the average user since they usually keep operating systems for 3+ years.
"

What I meant is that it's way more affordable to a person with a lower income; I know it isnt CHEAPER, but that wasnt what I meant either.



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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 12th Feb 2015 00:22
Of course, it's possible MS are going for the same model they've used for Microsoft Office.

You can buy Microsoft Office Professional for £383.99 to get access to all of the office applications

Or you can pay for Office 365 Personal, which is a subscription of £5.99 a month and includes some web based services. For £7.99, it's the same thing, but access for up to 5 users.

Likewise, there's Visual Studio and Visual Studio Online, which is similar.

So I suspect it'll be Windows 10 and Windows 365, which I would argue is likely based on the models used for other products. Rather than forcing you to use a subscription or online service, it's giving you the choice.

Seditious
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Posted: 12th Feb 2015 00:28
Is this not all just speculation?
Clonkex
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Posted: 12th Feb 2015 07:13
Quote: "Is this not all just speculation?"


Of course it is. And if the speculation turns out correct (and M$ DOES make Windows sub-based) that'll be it for me. It'll be a "stuff you, M$" moment.

Quote: "Windows 365 could simply be trademarked because they want to reserve the title for something different - maybe they're planning on making a back up service, similar to SkyDrive (but infinitely better), which as the name implies would be run 24/7, 365 days a year."


You, sir, give me much hope with your optimism

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 12th Feb 2015 11:59
Quote: "Of course it is. And if the speculation turns out correct (and M$ DOES make Windows sub-based) that'll be it for me. It'll be a "stuff you, M$" moment."


Would you do the same if you were given a choice between Windows 365 and Windows 10?

I still use MS Office, despite there being a subscription based alternative, Office 365. And I still use the free version of Visual Studio, because I'm too cheap but there is an online subscription based alternative.

If I were to make any kind of speculation, it would be based off of MS's current business model. I would still use Windows 10, but if it was a forced subscription, then I may not.

Subscription based alternatives have a level of success, when people don't have a wad of cash and need/want to use a product, it is an alternative way of paying for something without taking a huge chunk from their bank account. Heck, I pay a Pluralsight subscription instead of spending lots and lots of money on training material - for example, UDemy might charge $200 for 1 video series on the same topic of the same quality - if I wanted to watch multiple? Well, heaven forbid. So I don't see it as an evil, however, if there was no alternative, then that's a problem.

Clonkex
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Posted: 12th Feb 2015 12:49
Quote: "Would you do the same if you were given a choice between Windows 365 and Windows 10?"


No. I meant if M$ made Windows exclusively subscription-based

Quote: "So I don't see it as an evil, however, if there was no alternative, then that's a problem."


Well said, and I agree!

Van B
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Posted: 12th Feb 2015 13:29
I think that a bigger issue will come as businesses adopt the subscription based licenses, Office365 I mean - people often like to have the exact same Office suite and OS as they use at work, and that will force more people to use the subscription based model. This is the way it's been heading for a while, over the last 5 or 6 years M$ has slowly crept their pricing up to make subscriptions a real alternative. It would be great if the subscription license covered 2 computers as a standard, then the second license could cover a home PC or laptop as well - remote access is very far from ideal.

Even with just 100 users say - updating Windows and Office becomes quite an expensive task. I would really like to see an end to new versions every year that just change things enough to make it a pill for IT departments and developers - at least there's a glimmer of hope that Office 365 and Windows 365 would mean a slower, more manageable evolution that avoids the mountain of work that a milestone update can result in... right now we can't even rely on compatibility between service packs.

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Dar13
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Posted: 12th Feb 2015 22:04
Quote: "Even with just 100 users say - updating Windows and Office becomes quite an expensive task. I would really like to see an end to new versions every year that just change things enough to make it a pill for IT departments and developers - at least there's a glimmer of hope that Office 365 and Windows 365 would mean a slower, more manageable evolution that avoids the mountain of work that a milestone update can result in... right now we can't even rely on compatibility between service packs."

Rolling-release operating systems (e.g Arch Linux, Gentoo, Fedora) are inherently more unstable due to the lack of testing before release. Perhaps Microsoft could slow it down enough to make it manageable, but I'm not confident in their ability to do that.

JLMoondog
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 11:37
Quote: "I am sure you had many worthy memories; what would the world be like today if not for WoW? I merely subscribed for 4 months (twice), if it were not for a number of pursuits I would have subscribed for a decade myself."


Great...you guys got me to re-new my sub.

Clonkex
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 13:08
Quote: "Great...you guys got me to re-new my sub."


WoW seems like something I'll never fully understand. Being the avid gamer that I am, I would dearly love to sign up and try it out, but I also fear the game. It's so freaking massive that I'd have to sink virtually all of my time into it to get anywhere, and even then I would still never understand the immense history the game has. I mean, people lost months and years into this game. I could do the same, but I could never truly see what the game was back in its day.

I'm lucky in that I grew up playing all the really old 80's games (even though I'm only 19) because that's all we had. AND we enjoyed them because when the 80's games were all you had, they were fun. As we (my brother and I) got older, we started finding more modern games, and basically played through the history of games. That's awesome because I grew up playing the "retro" games. Even so, I never got to live through the period the games belonged to. It's probably the reason I find movies like Tron Legacy so incredibly awesome

mr Handy
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Posted: 20th Feb 2015 16:25
Microsoft is doing everything to make people use Linux.

Hey hey, I got a better idea: how about video streaming OS? Subscribe for $1, lay back and watch an episode of Windows Online.

bitJericho
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Posted: 20th Feb 2015 20:15
Quote: " Microsoft is doing everything to make people use Linux."


Luckily for MS, Linux is doing everything they can to make people use Windows.

Dar13
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Posted: 20th Feb 2015 23:38
Quote: " Luckily for MS, Linux is doing everything they can to make people use Windows."

Like what? They're integrating some really good stuff in the kernel like live patching and better AMD GPU support so I'm not sure what you're referring to.

AutoBot
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2015 23:42
If Microsoft even dared to make their whole OS subscription based, they would face the consequences very soon after, nobody would want to buy their new OS, and then they would revert the subscription model and everything would be good again. This is similar to what happened with Windows 8: most people hated the start screen and stuck to Windows 7, so MS hid the start screen back in the shack and made Windows 10 more like Windows 7. Most likely if they want a subscription model, they will only use it for certain "premium" features which nobody will probably care about anyway. Ultimately, if Microsoft is smart, they won't use the subscription model at all.

MrValentine
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 11:57


Felt this was suitable for this topic title...

Clonkex
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 00:37 Edited at: 25th Feb 2015 00:44
Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 01:22 Edited at: 25th Feb 2015 01:23
When I was a wee tot, we had a cat that would say my older sister's name, Amy. Whenever she was gone, the kitty would get sad and start saying that. *so cute* The cat wouldn't say it clearly, of course, but it definitely sounded like the name.

Phaelax
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Posted: 27th Feb 2015 04:48
Quote: "If Microsoft even dared to make their whole OS subscription based, they would face the consequences very soon after, nobody would want to buy their new OS"


Most of their money probably comes from company licensing anyway, which is in a way already subscription based. I don't think it would hurt their income if the average consumer walked away.


"I like offending people, because I think people who get offended should be offended." - Linus Torvalds
Quik
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Posted: 28th Feb 2015 11:02
I would probably say that most people would stay, provided they don't overprice their OS per month, there isn't really any other OS that's really that great, well apple maybe, for the average consumer..
Linux is still too unknown and or complex for the average user, but i'm sure that's much bett since last I checked it.
and windows is really the only gaming OS
I very much doubt much would change, as said unless they drastically make the price unattractive



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