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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Implications of TGC's GameGuru product and AGK development?

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xCept
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Posted: 12th Feb 2015 18:34 Edited at: 12th Feb 2015 18:35
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TGC just renamed their FPSC:Reloaded product to GameGuru, which is meant to encompass more than just the FPS genre and will cost just $20. In the email, they state:

Quote: "GameGuru is now our main game making project here at The Game Creators and we have lots of developments planned for 2015 and beyond - you will get lifetime updates for Free "


So my question becomes, will this adversely affect the development of AppGameKit? I assume not, since AppGameKit remains TGC's only cross-platform solution and is certainly more apt for developing a wide range of apps especially 2D, but that comment made it seem like there may be more resources put toward GameGuru updates than AppGameKit in the future. I hope not.
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Paul Johnston
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Posted: 12th Feb 2015 19:17
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I'm not working on GameGuru so I'm still full time on AGK. GameGuru is more popular so it currently has more people working on it.
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JHA
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Posted: 12th Feb 2015 22:51
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Having connection issues trying to download Version 1.01.



I suspect it is just because everyone is trying to download it at once.

True, or is there really a problem?

Thank you!
JHA

Proverbs Challenge: http://pc.potentialsunleashed.com/

Using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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Markus
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Posted: 12th Feb 2015 23:54
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btw
FPSC was a better name

AGK 108 (B)19 + AppGameKit V2 Alpha .. : Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit : AMD Radeon R7 265 : Mac mini OS X 10.10 (Yosemite)
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JLMoondog
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 01:05
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I had a GameGuru disc for my Panasonic 3DO Gave me all the Codez!

Reading that email also made me scratch my head about what was going on with AGK...

Quote: "I'm not working on GameGuru so I'm still full time on AGK. GameGuru is more popular so it currently has more people working on it."

You're awesome Paul

http://jmoondog.weebly.com/
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tiresius
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 02:35
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I consider FPSC a "Game Maker" and AGK2 as a "Programming Language with Game Engine support".

Funcygames.com
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MrValentine
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 03:00
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Question is, what does this all mean for DBPro? why is TGC so silent about its future?

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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 04:42 Edited at: 13th Feb 2015 05:02
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Quote: "I'm not working on GameGuru so I'm still full time on AGK. GameGuru is more popular so it currently has more people working on it. "

I think this sums it all up in a nutshell.
The most popular products will receive the most attention and development, and that makes perfect sense.
Yes, it could be argued that the speed of development can attract or lose users, but a lot of the community here are in this for the long haul.

Quote: "Question is, what does this all mean for DBPro? why is TGC so silent about its future?"

I am not a TGC representative, or Mod, or anything other than a user and eternal fan.
But as I see it...
FPSC Reloaded now GameGuru has the most attention right now, and rightly so.
AGK is awesome and is currently being handled beautifully by Paul. (hats off to Paul for outstanding work)
DarkBASIC Professional has a loyal user base which is as advanced as the language, or they have moved on to AppGameKit or outside TGC. (DBPro = bottom of development totem pole)
I still use DB Classic sometimes for Pseudo testing, but I understand it is as dead as Latin.
DB Pro users had better get used to taking a back seat as long as AppGameKit and GG are fighting each other up front for the driver's seat.
I'm too busy hanging onto their bumper on this skateboard to even care who is driving. (but it's a fun ride)
By the time we get to where we are going, they will all have had a turn driving and be awesome at it.
And if things go to plan, I'll be right there when it happens as long as I can hang on until we get there.


Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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SpecTre
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 13:58
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I am quite new to AGK2 and although I have DBPro and have had it for some time, I am a late starter to AGK2.

It seems that DBPro is becoming history as I don't see anything from TGC with that product, especially with AGK2 as it seems most people are moving over to that with the cross platform support.

I hope AGK2 becomes as good as DBPro, as even with the cross platform I don't think it is anywhere near as good yet, however we are to watch this space and have been told that 2015 will bring a great deal to AGK2 and indeed Paul Johnston is doing a great job.

Quote: "I'm not working on GameGuru so I'm still full time on AGK. GameGuru is more popular so it currently has more people working on it. "


Are we to be worried though as it seems one person is working on AGK2 and there is a great deal to do with this product and if not carefull this will fall with other products offering much more advanced features and speed than AGK2, although it has to be said at a higher cost.
It just seems that maybe updates and new features will now take even longer to arrive??

What I do find a bit strange however is Game Guru being the lead product. Okay it might sell quite a lot, or will do when released, as I don't know how well FPSC was as a product as I never bought it and haven't used the free version and to be honest FPS games do not appeal to me.
At $20 though I might buy Game Guru as it appears it will not be just to produce blood thirsty FPS games as the blood can be turned off and effects like cartoon GFX can be used.
It might also be compatible as a tool for AGK2 when 3D commands are implemented good enough to use it with AGK2. Who knows?

Game Guru - $20
AGK2 - $99 without 33% off

The cost of the products to me does not add up for lead product and time spent working on that product, surely AGK2 is the main product, I don't know but that is just my opinion and the more income Game Guru makes for TGC the more money can be spent on AGK2?
Will this happen however or will just more time be spent on Game Guru?
Especially when you look at the feature list for Game Guru comapared to AGK2, you can't help being left with the feeling of being a bit ignored as an AGK2 user and I am new to AGK2.
Are we getting value for money?

https://www.game-guru.com/features

Check out how many features Game Guru has, it looks very impressive and also features to come, which looks like another 12 months plus of hard work on the product and less time on AGK2?

Quote: "
What Features Are Planned?

There are many new features that will appear in the final version. Here are some of the main ones planned:

Character creator – Personalise your game characters using this simple creation tool

Construction Kit – The ability to easily create building structures for your games

Improved AI & gaming techniques – Bringing more possibilities to the games you can create

Enhanced explosions and particle effects inc fire/smoke – To add depth and realism to your games

Under water swimming and effects – Your character will be able to swim and it'll open up new puzzle elements to your games

Lazer weapons for Sci-Fi games, Spells for Fantasy games – Expanding the universe of the games you can make

HUD systems; compass tool, map, inventory – Adventures and trading game mechanics become possible

Melee attack & other combat & interaction game choices – Adding whole new rich game play controls

Extra characters and game assets – Allowing you to choose any genre and any period in history
"


Don't get me wrong, I am not against TGC, infact far from it as I love AGK2 and DBPro before it and the community is fantastic with people always here to help when a problem should appear.
I can't help feeling a bit worried that AGK2 will be a long time in developement to get the features that will make it a fantastic product as DBPro is now.

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
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Polaraul
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 16:55
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The email I received states "GameGuru is now our main game making project here at The Game Creators and we have lots of developments planned for 2015 and beyond" This, coupled with pretty aggressive marketing over on Steam (just $20, and a GameGuru store) does lead me to wonder what the future holds for AGK2. Specially since AGK2 has been out a while, but the as yet un-launched GameGuru seems to be taking centre stage.

I really like AGK2, and want to invest time in the product, but with the Kickstarter and Steam launch done and dusted, and with the high profile GameGuru release, I can't help but feel the product may start to languish. I think the AGK2 team does a great job, but with what feels like limited resources, I do wonder what the future holds for AGK.
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Pawprints
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 18:04 Edited at: 13th Feb 2015 18:07
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I too was shocked to read the line on the steam page and think it's wrong to blatantly say that AppGameKit is less important and less of a focus.

In fairness if we had the pledged 3D commands, (promised so long ago now) we'd be able to make 3D games that would make Games Guru look like a child's eye candy play toy. It could be argued that having one person taking all the stress and pressure isn't fair and is hampering AGK's popularity, development and support and baffling statements like the one in the email do nothing to help matters. Paul is doing an amazing job of keeping things afloat and I just wish he'd have more visible backing and support.

Windows is all well an nice but what about Mac, iOS, Android and even linux. You don't see unreal engine etc going , hey PC is grand... lets stick with this for the rest our product cycle. Don't get me wrong for someone who wants to bash out a generic looking game FPSC is lovely and I'm sure more creative flexibly will grow with the product as there is seemingly more enthusiasm behind it.

So please, everyone support AppGameKit, make some truly original and non generic awesome games and hopefully AppGameKit will become what it deserves to be. Please tell me.... how many commercial releases have been made using FPSC? How many with AppGameKit? Nuff said.....

If it's not broken don't keep trying to fix it.
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 18:11
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The PC is still the most powerful gaming platform. Any idea that you can make something like FPSCS with AppGameKit and have it run on a mobile phone is IMHO silly.

Onwards and sometimes upwards
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unlikely
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 18:18 Edited at: 13th Feb 2015 18:20
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Quote: " Don't get me wrong for someone who wants to bash out a generic looking game FPSC is lovely and I'm sure more creative flexibly will grow with the product as there is seemingly more enthusiasm behind it.

So please, everyone support AppGameKit, make some truly original and non generic awesome games and hopefully AppGameKit will become what it deserves to be. Please tell me.... how many commercial releases have been made using FPSC? How many with AppGameKit? Nuff said....."


Well put. And this is what concerns me about this. It seems like TGC are putting their energies behind what seems like essentially a modable FPS game... No small team is going to make the next [insert awesome FPS of choice here] using "GameGuru." But they might feasibly make the next Super Meat Boy, or any other indie game, using AGK. Or another type of application. I don't see the draw of GameGuru, and am surprised it's more popular than AppGameKit! I seem to remember the FPSCR Kickstarter getting a LOT less support than the AppGameKit one?

Meh, I don't know much about anything--this is basically my poorly considered reaction. Regardless, I hope that TGC are successful with this!

Using AppGameKit v2 T1 + T2
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Pawprints
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 18:22
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Really? Visually perhaps but not playability wise and if you're creative you can get around things. Lets be real here, golden eye is considered one of the greatest FPS games and was created on the N64 with its limited hardware.

Again eye candy alone does not make a game good, it just makes it look pretty.

When and if we get the promised 3D commands I will happily put this to the test and make a first person shooter in AppGameKit in the same way I made Evil Divide in Div games studio all those years ago (which was well received and was even shown in PC plus magazine).

If it's not broken don't keep trying to fix it.
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BatVink
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 18:42
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Quote: "I don't see the draw of GameGuru, and am surprised it's more popular than AppGameKit!"


I think most of the AppGameKit community see it that way because we are focused in a different way, but we are in the minority. What we do takes longer to get results, so many drop away along the journey.

GameGuru will appeal to tens of thousands of young game players, once they get the message out there. 99% of that market will never consider AppGameKit, we are different breeds of creative people.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
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MrValentine
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 18:53
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Quote: "we are different breeds of creative people."


^ This

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Pawprints
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 19:11
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Agreed totally

We want to innovate not replicate

If it's not broken don't keep trying to fix it.
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unlikely
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 19:18 Edited at: 13th Feb 2015 19:20
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I guess as a for-profit company, they do have to be concerned with what the market wants, not what a minority would prefer.

I'm not doubting that that makes sense, I am just surprised that the AGK-leaning creators are 99:1 outnumbered by the FPSCesq-leaning creators!

Using AppGameKit v2 T1 + T2
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SpecTre
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 19:24
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AGK2 could be so much more as a product, why not give it all the high end tools to make exceptional games and then give it output to devices like PS3 and 4, XBOX360 and 1, Wii and WiiU?

Throw as much at it as you can and surely this will increase the market and bring in other developers who are thinking of Unity and Unreal, etc especially with the big price margin of these products.

Quote: "Quote: "we are different breeds of creative people.""


This is true but at least give us a good crack at it with AGK2.
I should imagine Game Guru will do well but I have only had AGK2 about a month and wasn't involved in the Kickstarter project as I wasn't aware of it then.
It does seem however a lot of the deadlines are well overdue and I haven't waited as long as some of you guys who have been involved since the start.
Will this happen with the deadlines for Game Guru?

It would be nice to hear something on these worries from the TGC team, what are your views Lee Bamber?
Have I made the right decision in getting AGK2 and learning it at this stage?

AGK2 is such a great product, it would be a real shame for it to die a slow death.

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
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Polaraul
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 19:59
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@spectrePaul I am very much in the same boat, and feel the same way.

Having come from a background of STOS and AMOS coding, I chose AppGameKit over UNITY. In the back of my mind though, I wonder if my time spent learning AppGameKit would have been better learning UNITY.
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SpecTre
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 20:11
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Yes I too came from AMOS and STOS which by the way had great documentation with the products, none of this searching for hours to try and see if a command is available to do something eg: (and still don't know)

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=213606&b=46

I do have DBPro though so am finding the transition to AGK2 pretty easy, just get stuck like the rest along the way.
AGK2 is not yet as powerful as DBPro though, which when I bought it, I thought it would have the same sort of commands but for mobile devices but then it would be called DBPro mobile I guess!
So I might have been stupid there.

I think we just need some sort of reassurance from the powers at be especially when looking at the GameGuru steam pages saying that it is a community lead project and the more money going in will gain extra features etc. Just wonder if any of this money will go on AGK2 or if it will be forgotten.

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 22:07
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Speaking as a (very) old Amiga programmer, there is a huge difference betwwen AMOS, STOS etc and AGK. Each Amiga (I had them all, provided by Commodore) was a well-defined hardware platform. Those of us who were in the developer pre-release loop got bugs ironed out before the computers went to market. I could pick up the phone, if I found a reproducible problem, and talk directly to people at CATS.

It's not like that now apart from Apple. PCs are more consistent than they used to be, but Android is a fragmented nightmare.

So I think that AppGameKit will always be shooting at moving targets. It's not expensive and it does what it does very well. Let's hope the support stays there.

Onwards and sometimes upwards
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Pawprints
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 22:41
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To some degree I agree but you do get different incarnations of the hardware like ECS, AGA chipsets as well as varying hardware but that was targeted at a single platform much in the same way as FPSC is.

Android is fragmented for sure but I think as technology improves it'll be much like the PC when it first appeared. Hardware is becoming more compatible and as graphics ability becomes higher as standard I think things will get easier. That and resolutions seem to hover around widescreen resolutions most of the time these days much like PC's now.

I had lots of fun with Amos especially making nice water reflections for my games copying and pasting strips of graphics. Never looked or played with stos. But I do believe we got a lot more out of the amiga processor speed wise than we'll ever get out of a PC or mac. Anyways going a little off topic here.

I agree we need some reassurances as to where AppGameKit fits into the big picture and now I'm determined to build an FPS ability into my latest AppGameKit engine project in the hope that we get FBX model animation when it's ready and working. As with the Div game studio days I like a good challenge and AppGameKit has certainly given me a few of those with it's shortcomings in relation to DBP (and not graphics speed).

I say keep making AppGameKit games that are cool and fun and hopefully people will cotton on to the possibilities.

If it's not broken don't keep trying to fix it.
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SpecTre
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 22:54
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Quote: " I say keep making AppGameKit games that are cool and fun and hopefully people will cotton on to the possibilities."


I agree there

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
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RickV
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Posted: 13th Feb 2015 23:33
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Hi,

Moving forward as a company we have three areas of business;

App Game Kit
GameGuru
Driving Test Apps

All of these are key parts to our business and all will be supported and developed as we move forward.

We have big plans for AGK2 and we're actively working on it right now. So don't worry folks it's not going to go away.

Rick

Development Director
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JimHawkins
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@Pawprints - Yes, but as I was saying, those of us who were under NDA did the work in exchange for the kit to make the move up as painless as possible. I've seen CD32 as a breadboard. We told them it was a screw-up because Engineering decided to remove the CD frame interrupt. Did they listen? No. CD32 killed the Amiga.

TGC do listen.

Onwards and sometimes upwards
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Pawprints
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Posted: 14th Feb 2015 00:45 Edited at: 14th Feb 2015 00:48
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Sorry the CD32 was a dangerous machine only because the metal inside was so damn sharp.. Mine had blood all over it as it was like a razor blade around the edges. I can't remember now why I had to take it apart.

CD32 did not kill the amiga at all well surely not single handed. Lets face it they did the same poor idea with the C64 GS which was far far worse. The CD32 was actually a good machine if you slapped an SX-1 in it's rear expansion slot and whack in 4mb memory and a HD. But yes it could have been much better granted but I don't think that single machine killed of the Amiga. Yes they should have also included the mpeg video module as standard.

For me the annoyance was launching the A1200 so close to the A600, now that did hack me off at the time.

Deluxe Paint on the CD32 with 6mb was lovely and I am sure I had Amos ran on it too.

Ah just think what could have been if Commodore didn't screw up.. The Amphone, The Ampad... the Amwatch....

and yes TGC do listen and I must admit to not realising the author of the original statement that sparked this whole forum topic. I'm hopeful that Rick and Paul will see that AppGameKit has a bright future and support it.

If it's not broken don't keep trying to fix it.
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SpecTre
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Posted: 14th Feb 2015 02:18
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Quote: "TGC do listen."


Please, because AGK2 is a great product which could be so much more.

Quote: "CD32 killed the Amiga."


Yes and the A600 and Commodores attitude with not listening to where things were going. If the Amiga was still going now, well, wow!

Quote: "We have big plans for AGK2 and we're actively working on it right now. So don't worry folks it's not going to go away."


That's good news, maybe more updates in the development post or steam blog would be good.

Oh and by the way, as you mentioned the driving App. My daughter has just passed her driving theory test by just going through the App. Great product there as it really helped her.

I believe AppGameKit was used to create it.

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
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Polaraul
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Posted: 14th Feb 2015 03:15
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Quote: "That's good news, maybe more updates in the development post or steam blog would be good."


I think that is the thing. Lee has his own blog where he updates nearly everyday GameGuru development news, and the GameGuru site has its own dedicated forum and news page. By contrast the AppGameKit site is pretty much static.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 14th Feb 2015 06:12
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Quote: "I think most of the AppGameKit community see it that way because we are focused in a different way, but we are in the minority. What we do takes longer to get results, so many drop away along the journey.

GameGuru will appeal to tens of thousands of young game players, once they get the message out there. 99% of that market will never consider AppGameKit, we are different breeds of creative people."

Exactly
That is the difference in popularity....ease of use.
No coding required vs. 90% code
Why learn to code for AppGameKit when I can point and click my way to a game in GameGuru?
It is what it is, and the market has spoken... people are lazier than ever in our newly automated world.

Quote: "
App Game Kit
GameGuru
Driving Test Apps

All of these are key parts to our business and all will be supported and developed as we move forward.
"

Sounds great!
I'm happy with TGC's progress with its currently supported products, as you guys do a fine job juggling your resources of talent imo.
I use many of your products, and enjoy using them all.
I look forward to TGC's next great update, whichever product it may be.
Thanks again TGC!


Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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BatVink
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Posted: 14th Feb 2015 08:28
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Quote: "I say keep making AppGameKit games that are cool and fun and hopefully people will cotton on to the possibilities"


I agree, one of the most powerful but untapped marketing tools is the huge number of games made in such a short space of time, and the momentum is increasing.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
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xCept
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Posted: 14th Feb 2015 08:55
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Quote: "I seem to remember the FPSCR Kickstarter getting a LOT less support than the AppGameKit one?"

That is correct. AppGameKit V2 received more than twice as many backers and raised over $12,700 USD more on its Kickstarter campaign than Reloaded/GG. Lee mentioned in 2012 that the original FPS Creator had sold 30,000 copies over its six-year life. I should mention that I am a big fan of both and have backed them each at every opportunity.

From a commercial and versatility standpoint, however, AppGameKit is much more valuable to me than GG could ever be. Many have already released commercial products through AppGameKit, noting that some of us including Matty H and myself have also won mega grand prizes with AppGameKit creations in multiple worldwide competitions while in direct competition with mostly Unity developers. TGC itself is currently riding the top charts in the UK with numerous driving test apps they developed using AGK. AGK has proven itself to be a successful all-purpose development platform.

I think GG will be fun for casual hobbyists to rapidly create 3D environments and familiar gameplay of a few varieties, but it seems much harder to commercialize and promote such efforts when compared to AGK. The number of commercial FPS Creator games can likely be counted on one hand, with only one that I know of ever making it to Steam and one or two making it to retail with good sales (but also at a $50,000 cost to develop).

I would love to see more resources allocated to AppGameKit development. Once all of the Kickstarter stretch goals are complete and all bugs fixed it will be a really well-rounded development platform. However, maintenance of it by just one person as a closed-source product is often a concern since many of the third party libraries require frequent updates.
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paulrobson
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Posted: 14th Feb 2015 10:47
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FPSC reminds me of something I wrote a few years ago. It was a game creator for TI Graphing calculators, and it allowed easy creation of "Zelda" type games (the old NES type), top down multiple room game areas. Obviously a lot simpler but the same sort of idea. What I wanted was, a bit like FPSC, something where people who couldn't program could relatively easy produce something.

What happened was the TI repositories were flooded with lots of near identical games, most of which were low quality. It got so bad they created a directory purely for games produced with the game creator. Maybe 1 in 20, absolute best case, was actually thought through, time spent on graphics, game design and playable. Most of the rest were slung together on the fly, used the graphics I'd put in the demos (which were rubbish, even for 8x8 pixel graphics, I can't draw for toffee).

I don't doubt FPSC is a good engine, but I think the same sort of thing will happen. A lot of near identical games using the provided graphics and standard features, and that's it.

It may sell well, a lot of people used my RPG creator. Let's hope so, anyway.
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BatVink
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Posted: 14th Feb 2015 13:13
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Quote: "noting that some of us including Matty H and myself have also won mega grand prizes"


See you at the finish line tomorrow, 11:59PM sharp
(I don't even consider myself to be anywhere close to your creations, but I am enjoying the deposit that arrived in my Paypal account yesterday)

The pot that xCept refers to stands at $36,000, and is higher if you include non-AGK wins from AppGameKit community members. (You can't always use the SDKs with AGK).

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 14th Feb 2015 14:08
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Quote: "Deluxe Paint on the CD32 with 6mb was lovely "


I think you mean Gb, not Mb. The CD32 had a 32-bit 68CE020 processor and could only address 4 gigs of memory! It was never sold in America because of a patent dispute with Cad Track over the use of XOR. Huge stocks were stuck in Singapore, and Commodore went bankrupt, but only after Medhi Ali took loads of money and exiled himself. That's why it, and he, killed Commodore Amiga.

With so many Android devices it's impossible for TGC to test on everything in the way developers could for the Amiga range. The same thing applies to Embarcadero's massively more expensive XEx compilers.

3D would be fun, but useless on low-end phones. GameGuru has Lua scripting. That would be an enhancement for AppGameKit, I think.

Onwards and sometimes upwards
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 14th Feb 2015 15:55
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Quote: " noting that some of us including Matty H and myself have also won mega grand prizes with AppGameKit creations in multiple worldwide competitions while in direct competition with mostly Unity developers. "

Quote: "See you at the finish line tomorrow, 11:59PM sharp"

Okay, I missed this completely... which contest are you guys referring to?


Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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BatVink
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Posted: 14th Feb 2015 18:24
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Quote: "Okay, I missed this completely... which contest are you guys referring to?"


I got my numbers wrong. By October 2013 it was $62,750.

The finish line refers to this competition. It's not been mentioned much here because of the ability (or lack of) to get it working with AGK. I could have done it with AppGameKit, knowing what I know now about integration with .Net, but my entry is not an AppGameKit one. I'm $1,000 and a Realsense Camera up so far. I don't anticipate winning any more prizes, the competition has some amazing coders in it.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
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xCept
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Posted: 14th Feb 2015 18:29 Edited at: 14th Feb 2015 18:31
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Quote: "See you at the finish line tomorrow, 11:59PM sharp
(I don't even consider myself to be anywhere close to your creations, but I am enjoying the deposit that arrived in my Paypal account yesterday)"

Congrats, and best of luck! I did not enter the competition this year, so no pressure

Quote: "Okay, I missed this completely... which contest are you guys referring to?"

Intel has sponsored a number of contests over the past few years for their new technology. An AppGameKit game I made won the App Innovation Contest (2012) and an AppGameKit prototype Matty H made won the game category in the Perceptual Computing Challenge (2013). I won two more grand prizes (Perceptual Computing and App Innovation 2013) but the end products in those cases used non-AGK tech although I still prototyped using AppGameKit for them. The latest one that Batvink references is their RealSense Challenge, of which I am not a part.

Quote: "I could have done it with AppGameKit, knowing what I know now about integration with .Net, but my entry is not an AppGameKit one."

Although I'm not in the competition, I have been doing some work with RealSense and AppGameKit based on a prior competition win. I was able to successfully get voice and hand tracking support between AppGameKit and RealSense.
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Impetus73
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Posted: 14th Feb 2015 20:41
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Amiga and 6 Gigabyte? hu? Are you insane, that would cost like $1000000000 in 1992. I think he meant 6 Megabyte, as he stated.

----------------
AGK programmer
Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90's.
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 14th Feb 2015 21:48
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Oh yeah - Thanks

Onwards and sometimes upwards
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baxslash
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Posted: 15th Feb 2015 09:25
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Damn. I guess nobody wanted to share that intel compo. Shame as i would have liked to know about it... I have a great idea what i could have done too


Using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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BatVink
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Posted: 15th Feb 2015 12:33
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If I get notification of any others, I'll let you know. I didn't post it because it wasn't really suitable for AGK.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
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Ched80
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Posted: 16th Feb 2015 07:42
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Personally I think it's good to diversify, it makes better business sense not to put all your eggs in one basket.

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SpecTre
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2015 02:08
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I really don't understand TGC sometimes. Gameguru is released, lots of bigging it up before hand getting people interested etc with kick starter and everything. Time taken from AppGameKit and lots of hard work put into it.

£20 for this type of product is cheap but on release for limited time they sell it for £11.24!! Why???
That's giving it away.

Seems like a big waste. All that will happen is everyone will buy it quickly at low price and when the price goes up the market will dry up and will then have to put the price down again.

Is the product really that bad to have to do this?
What then Gameguru 2 announced because not many people buying and more time taken from other projects?
I am really confused.

For example Call of Duty, massive game, big publicity and on day of release sell it for £10? It just doesn't happen so why are you short changing yourselves?

Oh well life goes on, back to coding.....

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
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Polaraul
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2015 02:20
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I suspect that Gameguru is a loss leader for TGC. They probably have an eye to the asset store to make for further sales (I am guessing that TGC get a percentage of any asset sold?)

Also, perhaps Gameguru will never be the product that all the Kickstarters were hoping for, and there really will be no major functionality upgrades for Gameguru. It seems to be being pitched now at a younger audience and moving away from an engine that serious devs would consider. With the F9 key, it almost feels like Minecraft!

Perhaps I am a little frustrated with TGC at the moment, but there almost seems a pattern that products follow. Take an established product (AGK, FPS Creator), reboot it on Kickstarter and then switch to Steam. After the initial Steam hype has passed, it then seems a long drawn out process for updates and added functionality to arrive.

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xCept
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2015 04:24
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I am sure the push to release GameGuru on Steam and to make it so cheap until next Friday is because Lee will be at GDC all week promoting it. So, many of the attendees will see it and the discount is more inviting for users to buy it.

Even at it's regular price, GameGuru still only costs what a single model pack does on TGC's site, so it is still ridiculously cheap by any standards. This may be a way for TGC to undercut their competition, but at the same time can cheapen the public's perception of the product. Clearly they are banking on making more from DLC in the form of model packs for GameGuru.

After GameGuru stole the thunder from AppGameKit (including the loss of Lee as an AppGameKit programmer) and was worked on by 3 core developers over the course of 2+ years with likely 2+ more to go before it has all that was described in the original Kickstarter, it will take a lot of sales at $20 to make up for this
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Alien Menace
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2015 08:47
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Quote: "Perhaps I am a little frustrated with TGC at the moment, but there almost seems a pattern that products follow. Take an established product (AGK, FPS Creator), reboot it on Kickstarter and then switch to Steam. After the initial Steam hype has passed, it then seems a long drawn out process for updates and added functionality to arrive."


Yep that's the way it seems to be. I can't understand why they are working on the AppGameKit debugger before the 3D animation commands. It completely and totally boggles my mind. This is a game creation language without a key game-creating components but yet they put their limited time and resources towards a step through debugger... what? It would be nice to have of course but it is not essential to making games. 3D animation.. well obviously that is very essential to certain types of games.

Personally, it is extremely frustrating to have a game on hold waiting for these guys to deliver features that were supposed to be delivered over a year ago and to make matters worse, there is no indication that this will be done any time soon so we wait and wait and wait for weeks at a time with little if any visible progress or updates. Awesome.

Apps published: 4
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BatVink
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2015 10:24
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GameGuru (in my belief) is about the asset store as mentioned earlier.

You could sell the product for £50 and get 1,000 games all the same with standard assets.

Or you could get 10,000 games because of the cheap price, 3,000 of which may be more unique because the user can afford new assets, and simply because 10,000 people have more chance of creating something unique than 1,000 people.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
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peterJBE
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2015 12:39
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I backed AGKv2 because they promissed a debugger.
I think it is pretty essential for a modern programming environment.
And they promissed it.
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2015 12:47 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2015 13:46
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I've followed this with interest.

(1) It would be good if GameGuru made money for TGC. Richer companies can invest more in development. Steam has massively increased TGC's exposure, and that can only be good.

(2) GameGuru is PC only - although obviously X-Box could easily be added. This makes it a focused product. AppGameKit is a jack-of-all-trades, necessarily compromising performance in some areas so that it can run on toy phones. Expecting it to do what GameGuru does on a low-end Android phone is totally unrealistic. Consequently, AppGameKit performs brilliantly for 2D games, but struggles with 3D.

(3) The calls for 3D-animation out-of-the-box are naive. The reason big games companies employ programmers is that there is no simple approach to this problem: it's a complex interaction between object models and meshes. OpenGL has NO support built in for 3D animation. The .obj model has NO support for 3D animation. The .X format does, but it still requires a huge amount of programming, including skipping key-frame "tracks" on the fly and other programmer and processor-intensive stuff.

(4) 3D is not really 3D. It's a way of manipulating 2D planes in such a way that a 3D illusion is created. AppGameKit is very good at 2D. So get creative and stop moaning. That's the pleasure of programming!

Onwards and sometimes upwards
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