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AppGameKit Classic Chat / android device crashes while creating animated sprites (AGK2 player)

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mindsclay
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Posted: 21st Feb 2015 20:22 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2015 22:26
I am using AppGameKit 2.0.11 with AGK2 player build Jan26, 2015, and I still have an issue with creating sprite animations. I had asked about this earlier and was told there are no constraints except for the amount of available memory. My device has 1GB of RAM and over 20GB storage available.

I can only get 2 animated sprites created. The android device crashes as the 3rd one is loading. I do not get an error (that I can see), AGK2 player merely goes away.

I can present the code, but not the images. And that is where the issue lies when asking for advice. Everyone is going to use images I am not using and thus will say everything works for them. So whomever would like to assist, you could create dumby images. I will give the specs on the images so they are the same size and resolution.

As I load the images I am also determining the size and adding in order to know the total size of the images.

So, the test code shows (while running on the Android device) that around the 50th frame of animation 8 is where it will crash.

Attached is a text file of the image parameters.



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mindsclay
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Posted: 21st Feb 2015 23:32
I did some experimenting and apparently there is actually a limit to the TOTAL number megabytes that can be loaded into sprites.

All the images I used were 240x135 and less than 4KB each.

I started with 1 animated sprite and loaded as many frames as I could until it crashed. The number of frames doesn't matter, it is the total size of all the images. The limit is somewhere around 6MB, but more like 5.954MB.

Then I divided the number of frames into 2 sprites. Same thing occured, at about 6MB it crashes.

Then I divided into 3 sprites, same.

If I keep the total size under 5.9MB I can keep adding more animated sprites. Anything over that and it crashes, even if not right away in a few seconds it will crash.

So it is the TOTAL size of all the images that has a limit. I was told there was no limit except system memory. 6MB is well below the 1GB of RAM my device has.

So, is this an AppGameKit bug? Or is this an Android limitation??

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mindsclay
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Posted: 21st Feb 2015 23:46
The same thing is happening when loading images only (no sprites involved).

There is definitely a 6MB limit going on.

How do we post bugs for the AppGameKit??

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2015 09:25
It may be a limitation on that specific Android device. A lot depends on the GPU.

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mindsclay
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2015 17:04 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2015 17:09
6MB is a limit for images?? That is really low to not be a bug.

My device Is HD 1920x1080 Tablet. The memory for one image is bigger than 6MB, so how could that be the limit?

I will contact the manufacturer but I highly doubt there is any 6MB limit on any Android device that allows games, movies etc.

.

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3d point in space
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2015 17:16 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2015 17:20
I think your loading a sprite sheet bigger than 1024 by 1024 pixals because that would be a reson to crash or your loading the sprites multiple times in a loop.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
mindsclay
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2015 18:00
There is no need for guessing. I have posted the code above and attached a text files describing the images.

If you mean 'atlas' instead of sprite sheet, I am not using one. I am loading the images individually using AddSpriteAnimationFrame()

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mindsclay
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2015 20:26 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2015 20:32
I decided to try writing a test in Android Studio. After installing everything and getting the devive USB drivers installed, I ran the Android Device Monitor that comes with Android Studio.

I was looking for errors specific to my coding. But there are no errors before, during or after the crash. Errors only at the AGK2 Player startup.

I am seeing this error at the beginning of AGK2 Player startup BEFORE starting my app... after I run my app there no errors.

02-22 11:00:10.200: W/native-activity(10183): Linear depth not supported, adjusting requested parameters
02-22 11:00:10.200: W/native-activity(10183): R: 8, G: 8, B: 8, A: 8, D: 24, W: 5, F: 5, S: 8, R: 4

and then a bit later this mess:

02-22 11:00:10.364: E/native-activity(10183): GL_OES_rgb8_rgba8 GL_OES_depth24 GL_OES_vertex_half_float GL_OES_texture_float GL_OES_texture_half_float GL_OES_element_index_uint GL_OES_mapbuffer GL_OES_fragment_precision_high GL_OES_compressed_ETC1_RGB8_texture GL_OES_EGL_image GL_OES_EGL_image_external GL_OES_required_internalformat GL_OES_depth_texture GL_OES_get_program_binary GL_OES_packed_depth_stencil GL_OES_standard_derivatives GL_OES_vertex_array_object GL_OES_egl_sync GL_OES_texture_npot GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays GL_EXT_texture_format_BGRA8888 GL_EXT_discard_framebuffer GL_EXT_shader_texture_lod GL_IMG_shader_binary GL_IMG_texture_compression_pvrtc GL_IMG_texture_compression_pvrtc2 GL_IMG_texture_npot GL_IMG_texture_format_BGRA8888 GL_IMG_read_format GL_IMG_program_binary GL_IMG_uniform_buffer_object GL_IMG_multisampled_render_to_texture

As far as I know, we do not set the color depth or any texture settings in Tier 1 do we?? These errors are coming from at least AGK2 Player... not my app.

Looks to me like something is not being set properly by the AGK.

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3d point in space
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2015 21:46 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2015 21:48
oh your using android studio, that version I do not know if it works or not the last version that I know that works is eclipse that was made in 2014. I think that AppGameKit help guide will show us how to use android studio maybe soon.
this is the version I use

EMF Common
Version: 2.9.1.v20130827-0309
Build id: S201308270309

Android studio might not work.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
mindsclay
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2015 21:58
"Android studio might not work." For what? I am merely using it for debugging.

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2015 23:08
Those are OGL errors. Without an example with data there is little diagnosis and of us can do.

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mindsclay
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2015 00:50
What example with data do you need? I have already provided the code I am using and the information on the images used so they could be created at your end.

The errors occur when AGK2 starts. They have nothing to do with my app because it is not even being broadcast at that point.

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2015 09:08
The code is very hard to read with all those backslashes!

Quote: "The errors occur when AGK2 starts. They have nothing to do with my app because it is not even being broadcast at that point."


I'm probably being thick, but I really don't understand this! Are you saying the player crashes?

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CJB
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2015 11:13
I am unable to replicate the crash. Can you provide some sample images for testing?

@JimH - Remove those backslashes using replace "\\\" with "". I have no idea what they are all in there for. Maybe that's why it's crashing?

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2015 11:50
I assumed it was a copy/paste into the code. If they're in the source, then the world would end. Does it actually compile???

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CJB
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2015 12:16 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2015 15:54
Quote: "Does it actually compile???"

Not with all those backslashes, but does when they're removed. Just need the images to test with now. I tried creating the images on-the-fly in the app (using CreateImageColor and a ResizeImage function). No crash.

@MindsClay> Try using SetErrorMode(2) at the start of your code to see if it is silently failing somewhere before crashing out.

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2015 12:19
Hard to see how we can test a data problem without the data!

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2015 12:29
Just compiled it. It's a little bit because it doesn't have a main loop in the conventional sense - do...loop but a while...endwhile block.

Why use the Player anyway? Export an APK and move it to device is a far better way of doing things. SnapPea is handy for this, I find.

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mindsclay
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2015 22:07 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2015 22:10
That's weird. Those slashes are not in my original code. This is a copy and paste from the IDE. So no I do not think that is the cause, unless...

Could the IDE editor have extra white spaces??

.

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mindsclay
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2015 22:18 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2015 22:29
@JimHawkins: Just merely create images in a paint program (a batch macro would help). I used After Effects because it was easier to generate multiple images/frames. I have tried .jpg, .png and of various sizes. None of that matters. It is the 6MB limit that is common to any variation of data.

Has anyone tried merely adding images ad infinitum? (or at least until memory runs out)

I am still waiting on support response from my tablet's manufacturer to see if there is a hardware or firmware issue.

The Device Monitor I am using from the Android SDK shows there is only 43MB free RAM on the device. That cannot be correct. Over 50% of it shows as "unknown". So I am not ruling out a hardware issue.

The weird part about using the monitor is that when the app is adding images the memory usage does not appear to increase. So there may be a problem with the monitor reading the memory usage period.

I will try not using the Player and see what happens.

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mindsclay
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2015 22:31
Quote: "I'm probably being thick, but I really don't understand this! Are you saying the player crashes?"


Not necessarily, but I am saying that during my investigation into this I saw error messages from the Player loading on my device. I thought it might be a clue as to what is happening.

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Funnell7
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2015 22:37 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2015 22:38
Quote: "That's weird. Those slashes are not in my original code. This is a copy and paste from the IDE. So no I do not think that is the cause, unless...

Could the IDE editor have extra white spaces??"


I think you get those slashes every time you edit your post (am sure I've seen that before)... Sorry, can't help with your main problem though

Using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
JimHawkins
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2015 23:02
mindsclay - I think your Android device may be junk!

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mindsclay
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2015 23:29
Okay... SnapPea was a dead end. It keeps wanting me to login in with Google but it gives me an error when I do so. Saying there is already an account... What ever, I have wasted to much time already.

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2015 23:48
SnapPea works fine here.

I don't think you're being reasonable asking people to debug your code or identify problems if you want them to create all your media. That's way beyond what people will do to help.

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mindsclay
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 00:36 Edited at: 24th Feb 2015 01:06
I am not asking any one to create all my media.

Quote: "mindsclay - I think your Android device may be junk!"

How can you say that when youhaven't even tried testing anything?

I didn't know I was allowed to attach content, or rather I thought the file size would be an issue. So I have attached a test suite for ya. Zip file includes images and code.

Besides, there is nothing wrong with my code or content. It is a matter of limits imposed by either AppGameKit, Android or device. So the main point here: Is there a limit in loading images that is well under the memory capacity of the device's memory?

And, Jim, no one has to do anything unless they want to. I was presenting this in case someone else has run into the problem. If no one else has, then I am on my own. I have already been experimenting and have come to a conclusion. I just need to verify it, which is why I have contacted the manufacturer of my device.

I really was hoping to get an expert opinion from someone who actaully writes the AGK. And if they don't know, then no one else on this forum would know. Sorry.

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mindsclay
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 00:58 Edited at: 24th Feb 2015 01:01
If this is a memory issue, my device has plenty of memory for the images I am trying to load. The size shown in the code I provided is actually the file size, so in memory it will be much larger.

Using the above attached zipfile contents: So I watched the memory usage on my PC as the images were added. It was around 39MB for the images. My android device has 1GB. The app itself is 20MB. So 20MB + 39MB is only 79MB. I do not know how they handle video memory in an android device. Maybe the GPU memory is a lot less than 1GB and they don't use the RAM for any image storage. On the PC, it is evident that the images are stored in RAM and only in video memory when displayed.

I tried looking into using memory blocks to preload images, but that looks to be a memory hog even more so.

As I watch the messages from the device displayed on the Device Monitor, it looks more like memory leaks from the Player, because as the Player executes the app I am seeing several processes dying, and then they are restarted only to die again later until the process of the Player itself dies. Then all is good on the device. There are never any errors before the crash, all I see are dying processes (that have nothing to do with the app itself).

So far I have not found a way to sideload the APK to test that method. All the downloads so far are determined to be unsafe by my virus software, and I have learned the hard way to trust that opinion.

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smallg
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 01:25 Edited at: 24th Feb 2015 01:28
using your test on my phone fills up the ram and causes the player to crash at around the start of the 3rd animation set up,
pc works fine and doesnt really change in ram usage, definitely a huge difference in the way the images are handled between the 2

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spec= 2.6ghz, 1gb ram, 512mb gpu, directx 9.0c, dbpro and classic
mindsclay
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 01:46
@smallg: Thank you. That's what I thought. And that is about the same with my tablet. Which means it isn't the device to blame. It must be a limit in Android or the AppGameKit is doing something crazy. But I need to investigate more before drawing the final conclusion.

Out of curiosity, how much RAM does your phone have?

I was able to sideload the APK of the code and I have exactly the same issue, so that means it isn't merely the Player. But I can't eliminate the AppGameKit until I can write the same code in a different ADK. At least load images, it doesn't matter if it is sprites or not.

I need to get hold of a different device to see if I get the same debug messages as from my tablet.

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mindsclay
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 01:53 Edited at: 24th Feb 2015 01:55
It is sad that I can't create a simple point-and-click game using AGK. At least not for Android, other platforms should be okay as it works great on the PC. I might need to go with no animations in Android.

Maybe I would have better luck with Tier 2??

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 10:53 Edited at: 24th Feb 2015 10:54
Okay - I've spent an hour building the project and examining it.

There are two problems in the code.

The size of the jpegs on disk is NOT the same as when they are decompressed into an image. They are also NOT sized to a power of 2. When they are loaded they will be expanded to 256x256. They are converted to 32-bit. Consequently, each image consumes 262144 bytes of video ram.

There 2400 jpgs. Video ram used is therefore 629145600 bytes. That is 614400K. That's 600 megabytes.

Video ram on a Nexus 1 is ~4 megabytes. The OpenGL texture cache size is system-dependent - but about 96 megabytes on low-end devices.

I think you need to load and free on demand rather than loading this much data - in other words, page your animations.

This is not an AppGameKit bug - it's exceeding OpenGL memory limits.

Finally, do you really need 800 frames? That's equivalent to a 27 second video at 30 fps.

Hope that helped!

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CJB
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 12:17
Something like TexturePacker could be useful in building atlas textures from your individual frames. You can add sub-images to an animation with less processor and memory overhead than loading in individual images (but still not as efficient as using SetSpriteAnimation where all the sub-images must be equally sized on the atlas texture). Also try to keep the atlas res to a power of 2, and max 1024x1024.

It's certainly going to be tricky with that number of frames at that resolution. Texturepacker or similar should help cram in as much as possible onto one sheet.

Happy coding!

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 13:11
Loads of people have produced simple or even quite complex point-and-click games using AGK. I doubt if they've used 2400 images at the same time!

This is an example of exactly how NOT to do things unless you want to run out of VRAM. It works okay on most modern PCs, albeit mind-numbingly slowly, because they usually have loads of space.

It does show how you should destroy images and other resources for a level which you're leaving and then build the new level.

The data tells me that most Android devices are giving up at about the 500 megabyte level. I can't say I blame them. This is a programmer misconception, not a bug.

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mindsclay
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 20:10
The 2400 images is for testing purposes only!

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mindsclay
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 20:25
JimHawkins,
I already mentioned that the file size is not the same as what is in memory. Please read what I write before trying to be helpful.

I am not getting close to 50MB before the crash, let alone 500MB. What I had sent was for limit testing, thus the name of the folder "testing".

I am very well aware of how to calculate the number of frames in an animation. No I do not need 800 frames, I need 6 seconds, 144 frames, and I have yet to get to 4 seconds before a crash.

It is too slow to load each animation on the fly let alone try to page an animation. If we coulld load at least two videos I could make that work.

I know about many point-and-click games out there on Android as I have played most them.

I also mentioned above that I most likely need to eliminate the animation for Android devices.

I also mentioned the "power of 2" in another post. You would not need to mention that if you had read what I wrote.

I had already stated that it is probably a memory issue, but that I haven't reached that limit and yet I still get a crash.

Not reading what I post is not helping me whatsoever.


I am moving on as no one on this Forum, as usual, can provide any help. I am merely seeing information I already know and seeing misconceived notions, assumptions and insults.

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 21:20
I have to say that that is one of the rudest and most arrogant posts I have seen for a long time. I regret the time I spent exploring the issue.

Nobody has insulted you. I did the maths and posted the results.

Your code actually prints the file size, not the memory consumed.

Quote: " I am merely seeing information I already know and seeing misconceived notions, assumptions and insults."


Glad you're moving on - hope it's to a programming course.

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CJB
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 03:11
I agree with JimHawkins about mindsclay's post being rude. This is a community forum, not an expert support team. We're mostly hobbyist programmers using our own time to try to help other members of the community.

Quote: "smallg: ...crash at around the start of the 3rd animation set up"


... so that is over 1600 frames...

Quote: "
mindsclay: Thank you. That's what I thought. And that is about the same with my tablet"

Great! Does that mean the testing has proved you can achieve your goals, as in a later post you state:

Quote: "2400 images is for testing purposes only! ... No I do not need 800 frames, I need 6 seconds, 144 frames"
Aren't you contradicting yourself?

Anyway, I used a batch conversion to resize your test images to 256x256 as recommended. I was able to load over 2000 frames before crashing. If I resize to 128x128, it loads all the frames without a hitch. Testing on an old Galaxy S2 device.

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mindsclay
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 17:47 Edited at: 25th Feb 2015 17:57
And yet another insult, from JimHawkins. " - hope it's to a programming course."

Sorry if I sounded rude, but I felt some postings to me were rude and that upset me. I should have waited a while before posting so it didn't sound rude. Rude was not my intent. Frustration perhaps, but not rude.

I have not contradicted myself whatsoever. I may have sounded like a broken record because I needed to repeat what I had already posted. I guess it is my fault that I didn't describe the situation adequately for you all to understand.

It is merely frustrating to post all pertinent info at the beginning only to have no one actually read it.
1) I attached a file showing the resolution of my images and how many there were. Then later it is assumed that I am trying to load 2400 frames. 2) I had already mentioned that the size of the image in memory would be much larger than on disk.
3) etc.
I could tell by (some of) the responses that my words were not read. You cannot help someone if you do not listen to them.

The 2400 frames was intended for testing purposes because someone in the posts asked for "data". So I provided it.

I should have premised this all by saying "If there is no precedence for this issue, don't waste your time". I appreciate everyone's kind participation, but if you have to go out of your way, please do not.

I don't want to waste any one's time. For example, resizing images smaller in order to load them all. That was never my intent to load so many images and the size used is not the size I need. My original post contained the information that should have made the idea of doing so invalid, and thus not wasting your time. Sometimes it really is a good idea to look before you leap.

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 19:39
It's nice to see a slightly more dignified response, but:
Quote: " Please read what I write before trying to be helpful."

if you don't think that's rude, I'm slightly worried about your social skills.

You also have claimed you said things in this thread which in fact you did not.

You provided the demo and it's data. Which is fine. But then saying it has nothing to do with your problem strikes me as a bit strange.

If you think there's an AppGameKit bug, then report it. But be sure to create a demo or fragment that reproduces it, which you have so far not done.

Given the tweening capabilities of AppGameKit it remains hard to see why you need these big animations. I'm prepared to be impressed.

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Impetus73
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Posted: 26th Feb 2015 08:14
If something does not work, try something else, that's my tip Rethink it all, and try it from a different angle, as there is always several ways to get the same result.

----------------
AGK programmer
Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90's.

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