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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Advanced Lighting with Terrain Editing!!!!!

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Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 18th May 2015 16:57
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Evolved has released a new version of Advanced Lighting with Terrain, Editing, Saving and Loading.

http://www.evolved-software.com/advancedlighting/advancedlighting



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Posted: 18th May 2015 19:46
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The graphics is impressive, the terrain editor seems to be cool too, it's such a shame that it eats a lot of fps, it could have been a great and fast way to make smooth terrains
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Posted: 18th May 2015 19:57 Edited at: 18th May 2015 20:04
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You can not complain about FPS when your trying to run it on a laptop. I do not know why everyone thinks because DBPro is DirectX 9.0c
that it should run fast on old or under powered hardware. Its is using Shaders 3.0 which needs a good GPU.

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Posted: 18th May 2015 20:01
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I am not talking about my pc because I never tried it, I am talking about your 37 fps
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Posted: 18th May 2015 20:02
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also remember that my "laptop" can run smoothly battlefield 4 with 64 players all spamming with lmgs in 20 meters of maps, just saying...
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Posted: 18th May 2015 20:08 Edited at: 18th May 2015 20:11
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You can not go by the FPS in the video its caused by recording video at 1920x1080.
also you only need 30 FPS for smooth game play.

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Posted: 18th May 2015 20:17
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mmm i disagree, 30 fps could be ok 15-20 years ago, 50-60 fps it's a must nowdays for smooth gameplay.
Also consider that the terrain is still empty, when you will add buildings, details, characters, it will lags too much, what are you specs? how many fps you get from that at 1024x768?
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Posted: 18th May 2015 20:47
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You may not fully understand FPS, read this page.

http://www.mvps.org/directx/articles/fps_versus_frame_time.htm

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Posted: 18th May 2015 21:07
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I have taken a look, but this don't prove anything, I don't understand how could you say 30 fps is smooth gameplay, if I higher the graphics on battlefield 4 to get 30 fps, I can barely aim, the game becomes twitchy, and the gameplay frustrating.
Probably in some games fps are less important than Others, but I still think that 30 fps are too few for a smooth gameplay
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Ortu
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Posted: 19th May 2015 00:58 Edited at: 19th May 2015 01:07
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You also have to consider that recording video will be a massive cut in fps, fraps drops the fps of any game I record pretty much by half.

I get a stable 120-125 fps running this terrain demo on my low-mid range PC:



He has had terrain editing commands in it for a while now, they have been updated a bit in this version, but mainly this is the first he has provided good usage examples.

I'm really excited as I've had some questions regarding making/editing terrains in AL gone unanswered for over a year and this version pretty much takes care of it.

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Posted: 19th May 2015 01:22 Edited at: 19th May 2015 01:23
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Just tried now and I have 24-28 fps.

Intel i7 2.2 Ghz Turbo at 3 or 3.2 Ghz I don't remember
8 GB of Ram
intel hd 4000 plus nvidia gt635m, for some reason dbpro games runs faster with the intel.

I also remember that I can run battlefield 4 smoothly with this pc so an empty map with just terrain, water and sky is unacceptable at 24-28 fps

edit: remember also that the higher specs you ask for your game the lower amount of people could play your game, therefore less income, not everyone has a superfast pc to play with
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Posted: 19th May 2015 02:41 Edited at: 19th May 2015 02:45
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Quote: "intel hd 4000 plus nvidia gt635m, for some reason dbpro games runs faster with the intel."


If you are going to develop a game the Intel 4000 is not going to work.

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Intel+HD+4000
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GT+635M

Quote: "if I higher the graphics on battlefield 4 to get 30 fps, I can barely aim, the game becomes twitchy, and the gameplay frustrating."


Your running BF4 on the lowest setting to make it playable but are claiming that you pc can run it with good FPS.

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Posted: 19th May 2015 02:52
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Not going to work? why you are so drastic? I am developing a game since augost of last year and everything is working fine with good fps (50-100 with high detail), and I have added a lot of stuff in the game so isn't an "empty" basic game.

Yes I am using the lowest settings and so? I am running it with good fps, but is still battlefield 4, it has A LOT of stuff to load, 64 players, lot of details, full of any kind of little objects, rocks on the ground, etc.
So if THAT works good with 50 fps I don't understand why a damn terrain with water and sky alone should give me 24 fps, the reason is that it is optimized really bad, I am not the only one who avoid it because of the fps problem, and there are people on the WIP that lately complains about it, because it eats A LOT of fps.
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Posted: 19th May 2015 03:01 Edited at: 19th May 2015 03:03
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Quote: "terrain with water and sky alone should give me 24 fps"


It is more than terrain, water and sky. It actually has a lot of optimization you just do not realize it.
Advanced lighting is the best shader system you can get for DBPro. All the work is done for you and it's free.

Features
Directional light.
Spot lights & texture projection.
Point lights & cubic lighting.
Exponential variance shadow mapping for soft linear filtered shadow maps.
Shadow map LOD.
Refraction rendering.
Screen space ambient occlusion.
Post Filters - bloom with adaptation, depth of field, object motion blur, light scattering, anti aliasing.
Dynamic sky with day night cycles.
Terrain with up to 8 texture layers via atlas map.
Ocean with reflections & refractions.
Volumetric clouds.

What optimizations are you using in your engine?
Are you using any kind of Occlusion?

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Posted: 19th May 2015 03:19
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Basicly some sort of hiding/excluding objects depending on distance or position, LODS, also I will give several options to play with to increase the fps or higher the quality.
For example at the moment I am using characters with up to 35k triangles, and several 2048x2048 textures, so lowering these things with like 8-10k characters and lower textures will increase the fps more, I will give other options too such as how many updates for the water ( if update the reflection every frame or 3 or 5), size of the reflection image for the water, and a lot of other stuff.

By the way, the example renders just terrain, water, sky, nothing more, do you know that a game is also buildings, characters, objects? when you will add these the game will be unplayable
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Posted: 19th May 2015 03:39
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You need to take your high poly models (35k triangles) and bake them on to a low poly version. I use "XNormal" for this check it out.

http://www.xnormal.net/Faq.aspx



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Posted: 19th May 2015 04:07
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That is not a problem, they run already good like that but, as I have already said in other posts, I will make an option to chose from low/med/high mesh for the characters, medium will be reduced by 50% and low by 80%, so the low poly version will have like 7k triangles instead, also, the 35k is the one with more poly out of all, there are some that are just 20-25k.
I will do the reduction already with the 3d software I use, I did the same way to make the LODs for the characters, but the LODs are way more reduced, like down to 1k triangles or so, as from a certain view it's impossible to see any difference (usually I set 500 units for the LOD, and 1500 units to exclude completely the character from the rendering, and this speeds up everything a lot, also because it seems that the main thing that slow down things is not the amount of polys but the animation, probably due to the 80-120 limbs per character, mainly bones).

Another thing I did to improve the performance is to use just 1 camera on the evolved shader for the reflection of the water, as I see that the second camera used for the refraction is not noticeable at all (I actually see no difference at all).

By the way now that we are talking about the water, someone knows why after some days that you do not restart the pc the water becomes laggy? everything is fixed with a restart of the pc (another user told me to do restart to fix the laggy water, btw I am talking about the water shader used in his project TerrainWater or something like that, not the one in the Advanced Lighting)
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Posted: 19th May 2015 06:45
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Quote: "By the way now that we are talking about the water, someone knows why after some days that you do not restart the pc the water becomes laggy? everything is fixed with a restart of the pc (another user told me to do restart to fix the laggy water, btw I am talking about the water shader used in his project TerrainWater or something like that, not the one in the Advanced Lighting)"


It happens in the AL water as well. My guess is something doesn't get fully cleared out of the video ram or something, but I've done no testing to verify this or track it down.

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Posted: 20th May 2015 18:28
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If you do not restart you laptop or PC for a few days many programs will get laggy.
It has nothing to do with Advanced Lighting or DBPro.

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Posted: 20th May 2015 23:59 Edited at: 21st May 2015 00:00
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Excuse me for asking this, but how would I load objects in this?

- Infinity is Simplicity -
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Posted: 21st May 2015 00:47
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the same as usual, load object, texture object, set object effect.

you also need to register the object with the system using object_add, object_setAutoUpdate, and the like.

if you download advanced lighting, it includes demo projects, the palm tree one should get you going with the basics for objects, alpha objects and the like.

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Posted: 21st May 2015 01:49
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Aprreciate it @Ortu

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Posted: 21st May 2015 02:29 Edited at: 21st May 2015 02:52
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Quote: "the same as usual, load object, texture object, set object effect.

you also need to register the object with the system using object_add, object_setAutoUpdate, and the like.
"


This is what I did before the main loop

rem object
load effect \"Shaders/Surface/Object/Parallax Occlusion.fx\",2,0
Effect_Add(2)
Effect_SetDetailMapping(2,1)
load object \"Objects/house/house.dbo",2
Object_Add(2)
position object 2,0,100,0
Object_SetAutoUpDate(2,1)

and I did this inside the main loop:
Object_UpDate(2)


The object appears under the water and is completely black. Not only that the object appears to drag across the screen as the camera moves around.
Does it need a different effect? (I took the one from the palm tree)
Does it need to be textured manually? (I do have the textures in the folder)
Does it need to be an .x file? (I loaded a .dbo)
or Does it need additional AL functions to the object? (only did effect add, object add, Object setautoupdate and Object update
or maybe even do I need setautoupdate inside the loop?
please help!!

Check
1. Doesnt appear to be a .dbo/.x file problem
2. I added set object effect 2,2 and I see the texture now..
3. Still have a dragging problem so my new troubleshoot goes like this:


Does it need a different effect? (Still may be that but I dont think so)
or Does it need additional AL functions to the object?
or maybe even do I need setautoupdate inside the loop?(Thinking this might be it but I dont know)

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Posted: 21st May 2015 03:42 Edited at: 21st May 2015 04:10
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you will get messed screen visuals if you are positioned below the terrain. back buffer / previous render doesn't get cleared which causes that drag effect

also keep in mind that it defaults to a pretty large scale 64k on the x/z and 7500 y on the terrain demo terrain

a position at 0, 100, 0 is probably under terrain

you don't need to call object_update because you added it to object_autoUpdate it will be handled automaticlly, you just need a call to AdvLighting_Update() at the end of the main loop. that function also handles sync so you don't need to call that either unless you have a reason to aside from the regular main loop sync

I haven't used that shader really, but yes you need to texture it yourself and it needs several types on different stages. diffuse, specular, normal maps for instance. open the shader in notepad and you can see what texture it needs on what stage. I mainly use the normal map clip shader.

you will be best testing things out using a copy of one of the demos, they will have all the setup done and correct so you can focus on getting your own objects loaded and working and from there you can stay testing different setting and options.

start the camera at 32000, 3000, 32000 and position your object near that point to start with and get your bearings or place it near a default demo object in a known location

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