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Geek Culture / windows 7 OS cheapest? OEM? best install disk or USB?

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fallen one
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Posted: 1st Jul 2015 00:15
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So, after 'years' of mac use, I am having to use windows again.
After building a new machine, I have to buy a new OS, I want to keep the price down. I had a look on ebay, I am seeing win 7 on disk or usb for Dell, and other computers, is this called OEM software?

It looks like the original machines have become beyond salvage or repair, and they sell of the OS that came with it. Having a quick look, Im sure some send the busted motherboard the OS has been used from, perhaps thats a legal thing.

Do these work on other computers? If its a dell disk, does it work on non dell machines? Is it the same OS as regular, only bought in bulk for example dell computers. Can I transfer it to more than 1 machine, is that allowed?

usb, or disk, which is best to use? cant remember if they was dvd or cd, can they fit win 7 on CD, must be a dvd.


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Dar13
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Posted: 1st Jul 2015 04:43
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The install media (DVD/USB/etc) doesn't matter so much as the key when it comes to having a valid/legal installation of Windows.

I usually just buy an OEM or retail version of Windows whenever I have the need to, usually from NewEgg and sometimes from Microsoft themselves. The reason I don't trust Ebay is because most OEM installs of Windows (like those on pre-built Dells) are non-transferable to new computers and can only be installed on a single computer.

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Airslide
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Posted: 1st Jul 2015 09:06
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My understanding is that those copies of Windows are considered by Microsoft to be tied to the original computer, and even if you owned the computer in the first place you aren't (technically) allowed to transfer the license to another one. That applies to the System Builder variants as well, I think. They may be violating the EULA or maybe sending you the motherboard lets them get away with some technicality and claim you are "repairing" the computer with new motherboard/processor/etc.

IMO, it is best to get the regular retail version. Doesn't really save you any money that way, but there are (or at least used to be) "family" packs if you plan on building additional computers.

I've been on Mac for awhile now though so I'm not sure I've got that all right.
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MrValentine
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Posted: 1st Jul 2015 09:10
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Yup if you are using a new build, an OEM licence will work best... and cheapest... also note you will get Windows 10 for free with it, so essentially you are getting two licences for the same price...

Important thing to note, Windows 10 will allow you to create recovery media for Windows 10, so you do not need to worry about that aspect.

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Van B
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Posted: 1st Jul 2015 10:55
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Any supplied installation disk for Win7 will be tied to that specific family of computers. A Dell install disk would only work on similar Dell setups. I'm not sure what they're thinking, but you can't just sell an OS from a prebuilt machine, the OS license is tied to the manufacturer. Consider that Win7 pro costs about £80 - there's no way a manufacturer would pay that, it's half the cost of the PC in a lot of cases... so they get a bulk license with a big discount because the license doesn't transfer.

Really I think your onto a loser with 7 - buy Win8.1 and grab an upgrade to 10 when you can, Win7 is already pretty much obsolete and 8.1 is quite cheap.

Meat Boy on a Speccy!
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bitJericho
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Posted: 1st Jul 2015 22:37 Edited at: 1st Jul 2015 22:38
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I'd say since winodws 10 is a month out, and windows technical preview is as stable as any OS I've ever used (and I've been using it as my primary OS since it came out), my recommendation is to use Windows 10 technical preview and buy a license when it's released to the public:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/preview-iso

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Dar13
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2015 01:30
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Quote: " I'd say since winodws 10 is a month out, and windows technical preview is as stable as any OS I've ever used (and I've been using it as my primary OS since it came out), my recommendation is to use Windows 10 technical preview and buy a license when it's released to the public:"

That would be the priciest option. Windows 10 will likely be more expensive than Windows 8 which is still more expensive than Windows 7. Plus, you get a free upgrade for Windows 10 if you own Windows 7/8/8.1 so you might as well get Windows 7 now and then upgrade later if you want.

Also, Windows 10 has this feature which is forcing me to reconsider upgrading. If they've done stupid stuff like that, what else have they done?

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2015 05:08
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Quote: "Windows 10 has this feature"
Ah, sharing WiFi passwords with Facebook friends -- great idea! ...
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MrValentine
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2015 09:43 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2015 09:44
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WiFi sense is optional...

Windows 10 I have read somewhere going to be £99 but there are two variants Home and Pro... I guess Pro is £150+

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2015 09:55
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Quote: "WiFi sense is optional..."
So someone comes over to your house, logs onto your WiFi... Yikes, didn't change your SSID??? Hope you like all of that person's friend's friends!
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MrValentine
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2015 10:03 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2015 10:05
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What!?

EDIT

Oh... Well I suppose you have to remember your router should have a password enabled...

But if you have unsecured folders on your network... Well that is what Homegroup is for...

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2015 10:31
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I may misunderstand how it works. From what I do understand, though, a friend comes over, logs onto your WiFi, then their computer shares access to your WiFi with all of their contacts. Seems problematic to me.
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The Zoq2
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2015 11:04
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Is wifi sense an opt-in or opt-out feature

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
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MrValentine
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2015 11:16
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opt-in you are given the choice on installation and also in settings if you change your mind later, same as on Windows Phone 8.1

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2015 20:12
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But what if someone else who has it enabled logs onto your WiFi network? Doesn't that give their contacts access to your network?
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MrValentine
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2015 21:03
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Does everybody you know live next door to you? And is your router unlocked? Is your PC sitting open on your network?

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Indicium
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2015 00:23
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MrValentine, if they have the password to your WiFi then it doesn't matter if it's locked. It can then be used for any malicious purpose, and it'll point back to you.
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bitJericho
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2015 01:14
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yes your friends and family are going to commit crimes against humanity because you inadvertently left your wifi open to them and they happened to notice and do it while you weren't looking.

Anyway, windows 8 on release was 40 bucks, we don't know what's going to be the price at release. Also, if you want cheap and/or free just use Linux.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2015 01:24
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Have you heard of a thing called 'Changing Your WiFi Details Regularly'?

Also, I do not think it is a chain mechanism or they would have mentioned 'Friends of your friends' [Ignoring of course a friend manually inputting your details]

I suggest you look up the feature before speculating to no end...

I do not need to as I have no issues with it and do not use it either... nor am I worried about people using my WiFi as my router filters by device... meaning having the WiFi password is hopeless as mine is restricted to device MAC addresses... which goes back to... How good are you with your network?

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2015 01:35
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Quote: "How good are you with your network?"
Most people are not very good with their network. This feature doesn't worry me personally, I merely find it a terrible feature to throw out among the technologically uneducated masses, if it all comes down to how good you are with your network.
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Dar13
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2015 03:12 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2015 03:15
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Quote: " Is wifi sense an opt-in or opt-out feature"

Wifi Sense is opt-out for Wifi access point owners. Opt-in for Windows 10 users.

Quote: " yes your friends and family are going to commit crimes against humanity because you inadvertently left your wifi open to them and they happened to notice and do it while you weren't looking."

Well if they used your Wifi to commit copyright infringement(i.e. torrenting) you can get caught up in that whole business. Not to mention various other felonies(illegal pornography for instance). So yeah, I want to control the amount of people that have access to my Wifi network.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2015 03:30 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2015 03:33
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Quote: "Well if they used your Wifi to commit copyright infringement(i.e. torrenting) you can get caught up in that whole business. Not to mention various other felonies(illegal pornography for instance). So yeah, I want to control the amount of people that have access to my Wifi network."


Perhaps you shouldn't invite child molesters to your house?

You must be fun at parties XD

Your bff: Hey what's the wifi password?
You: Sorry I don't give that out.
Your bff: But I'm your bff!
You: Sorry I have to protect myself from the predators all around me!
Your bff: Ok well where's your bathroom?
You: Sorry I don't give out the key for that...

Protip, if you're a paranoid schizophrenic, just shut off your wifi or, you know, the feature that we're all talking about.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2015 03:36
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bitJericho



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Indicium
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2015 03:36
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Quote: "Have you heard of a thing called 'Changing Your WiFi Details Regularly'?"


Why would I need to do this, without this idiotic feature?

Quote: "Perhaps you shouldn't invite child molesters to your house?"

If it's my Facebook friends, they're not neccessarily people I'm close with! For example, people I work with or go to uni with.

Quote: " meaning having the WiFi password is hopeless as mine is restricted to device MAC addresses... which goes back to... How good are you with your network?
"


As if it's a hard thing to do! That's also completely necessary. This feature makes it necessary!
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Dar13
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2015 03:44
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Quote: "Perhaps you shouldn't invite child molesters to your house?"

Are you being serious right now? You're blaming me for trying to protect myself from another malicious person?

Your example is stupid and borders on facetious, as yes my BFF would be given the password because I personally know/trust them. Meanwhile their Facebook friend, who I have never met and may actually be a criminal or have criminal intentions, is sitting in his car out front and doing whatever he wants on my Wifi network.

Quote: "How good are you with your network?"

It doesn't matter how good I am. Microsoft is distributing a private key to unknown persons without the Wifi network's express permission. If have to lockdown my router by MAC I will, but I shouldn't have to in order workaround Microsoft's utter disregard for a Wifi network owner's privacy/security.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2015 04:07 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2015 04:08
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Quote: "It doesn't matter how good I am. Microsoft is distributing a private key to unknown persons without the Wifi network's express permission. If have to lockdown my router by MAC I will, but I shouldn't have to in order workaround Microsoft's utter disregard for a Wifi network owner's privacy/security."


You do realise you just went full circle over bitJericho's point about trusted people?



EDIT

Quote: "Meanwhile their Facebook friend, who I have never met and may actually be a criminal or have criminal intentions, is sitting in his car out front and doing whatever he wants on my Wifi network."


I meant this bit...

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MrValentine
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2015 04:13 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2015 04:13
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Here, this is how it works currently on Windows Phone 8.1

http://www.windowsphone.com/en-gb/how-to/wp8/connectivity/wi-fi-sense-faq

Scroll down to read about how things work...

Regarding still having internet access to do dodgy things... I think we return to bitJericho's point about trusted people... [yes I did copy paste that last bit lol]

[And I purposely did not make that link clickable here]

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Dar13
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2015 07:37
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Quote: " You do realise you just went full circle over bitJericho's point about trusted people?"

I don't think you're understanding what I'm trying to say. And since you seem to be OK with this security hole, I'll just let it drop at this point. Agree to disagree and all that.

I personally just think it's messed up that the Wifi network owner has to actively opt-out of the service.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2015 10:55
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Eh well I have a nokia lumia 939 and wifi sense is definitely opt-in at the time of setting up the phone.

Here's some real details on the feature:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/06/30/windows_10_wi_fi_sense/

Personally, I would never use it, but the arguments that your facebook friends are pedos and so you must protect yourself are completely obnoxious.

I would never use it simply for the fact that one day, possibly never, the database will be completely hacked and downloaded and everyone who used it will have to change their wifi details lolol. What's really interesting is that you can add _optout_nomap to your ssid and you'll completely sidestep any issues with wifi sense and google maps. However, I hide my ssid by default so I'll have to see how that would affect things. I bet neither google maps nor wifi sense use hidden ssid networks.

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Van B
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2015 11:48
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WiFi isn't secure anyway, people simply do not use proper security protocols on their home network. If you require a password to access your WiFi, then all someone needs is a program to crack it, and crack it they will, and quickly. The biggest security risk to someones wifi network is themselves. Most people don't know why they should use a guest connection, never mind the pitfals of IPv4 security and administration. Sad thing is that the next standard is more than twice as fast as 11n, we need to get onto that instead of dragging our heels with 11n wifi all trying to use the same default channel and wondering why it's so crappy.

I think this feature is intended for when people visit - rather than giving them the password, it can be stored locally and access granted while they are in range. That might be more secure than dishing out passwords. Most people are not comfortable even changing their WiFi password, at least this way it can remain a long and complex string, because you don't have to type it all in again on a crappy android phone keyboard or a badly maintained laptop full of malware and keyloggers.

Meat Boy on a Speccy!
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Indicium
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2015 14:28
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Quote: "Most people don't know why they should use a guest connection, never mind the pitfals of IPv4 security and administration."


Could you elaborate on this?
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Van B
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2015 14:57
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Well guest connections prevent access to network locations, like shared folders and resources - if people only need to access the internet on their phone, then setting up a guest connection means you can do that without the same security concerns. I mean you might not want people to access a NAS drive full of ripped media for example, because that becomes your legal problem.

There are a lot of exploits with standard IPv4 security, and issues that often go un-noticed. For example lease time on an IP address - connect a whole load of devices and each one needs a unique IP address, if you don't have the lease expire in a reasonable time, then that IP address will be remembered. The problem might not be apparent but this means that your network will be trying to access these devices - packets might not have a clean route on a home network because there's no domain controller. So this slows down your network, and sends data to spurious IP addresses which can be hijacked.

I use fixed IP addresses on my main computers, and have a subnet induced limit of 14 connections... a subnet of 255.255.255.0 means your network supports 254 devices, that's a lot of redundant traffic. I use a subnet of 255.255.255.240, which gives 14 connections - much easier to maintain and monitor. The less network traffic you produce, the more secure your network is and the better it performs. Hence, I never need to reboot my router - it's unbridled default options that cause a lot of networking issues. Also, change the channel that your wifi is using - the least common channel to use is 13, hardly anyone uses that (hardly anyone changes the wifi channel!) - consider that if your using a standard channel of 1 or 3, it's having to fight with all the other wifi networks on the same channel - find a deserted channel and you'll have much better performance and a less obvious puzzle for any would be hacker to solve.

Meat Boy on a Speccy!
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