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AppGameKit Classic Chat / How to unlock content via ads, but make sure ads have been displayed?

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nickele upgraded
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Posted: 27th Oct 2015 17:22
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As my previous post (https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/215613) was neglected and my question was left unanswered, I would like to rephrase a question that has to do with in-game ads.

The reason I ask has to do with this scenario: I want to release a game that mostly targets iOS tablets and since Free-to-Play has become the "king" in mobile devices and the majority of ad-revenue comes from this type of games (f2p), then I am obliged to follow this path.

The short story: How can we ensure that the ads displayed in our Free-to-Play game, have been indeed displayed? Can we count the number of correctly displayed ads and those that show a black bar (when non existent network or connection)? If we decide to follow a model where in-game content is released after viewing some ads (Think "Crossy Road") how can the game ensure that
a) there is indeed an online or wifi/internet connection, and
b) an ad that has been fetched from the ad-server, has been indeed displayed in-game
For example, if I want to unlock the 2nd level of my game after 50 displayed ads, the 3rd level after 100 and so on, is there any way to do this with Tier 1 commands? If there isn't a way, then I would like to know so as to ask for inclusion in a future set of commands.

As a side-note I would really like TGC to include in its future AGK3 funding goal an option for hiring an individual who can answer in a daily or weekly or monthly basis ALL unanswered questions in the forum -even with one-liners (yes it can be done or no it can't - I don't care, just PLEASE answer)

Thank you for your time.
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Markus
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Posted: 27th Oct 2015 18:10
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hmm, after CreateAdvert & SetAdvertVisible it should appear after some seconds.
maybe test a web site with the http commands to get a result, u have network then.
i guess the click events comes also in the advert area, you can count self.
there is a RequestAdvertRefresh to skip the auto display next advertising,
means you can change after time x and count them, and save the state.
btw, my opinion is, adverts should NOT part of software because its just annoying.
the people have the money but they are very penny-pinching.
my sister is a good example. she using a iphone with some free apps+adverts. arrggg.



AGK (Steam) V2 Beta .. : Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit : AMD (15.7.1) Radeon R7 265 : Mac mini OS X 10.10 (Yosemite)
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CJB
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Posted: 27th Oct 2015 18:50
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My opinion: Ads should ABSOLUTELY be a part of software. What is required (but not yet supported), along with more control over how and when an ad is displayed is Rewarded ads.
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Markus
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Posted: 27th Oct 2015 19:31 Edited at: 27th Oct 2015 19:32
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@CJB
Quote: "Ads should ABSOLUTELY be a part of software"

because you program only to earn money with it?
you will play a game that stops and show you 20 seconds advertising until you can continue?
click and view advertising for next level?
no way. sorry.
what happens with tv or radio?
23 hours advertising inside outside a movie and 1 hour a movie itself a day.
also often the advertising is in no context what i need or want buy.
it just waste the screen view and my time.
advertising in internet was a big f*uck to all people, 99% websites open stupid popups and other windows with javascript.
you see, i hate adverts because by experience
since some weeks fb begans again to fill the news feed with adverts 25% from screen that i must scroll over. arrrg.

i accept adverts if someone want show his other products.
AGK (Steam) V2 Beta .. : Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit : AMD (15.7.1) Radeon R7 265 : Mac mini OS X 10.10 (Yosemite)
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haliop_New
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Posted: 27th Oct 2015 19:45
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I actually have a simple solution for this.

you start displaying the Ad
but you also insert a small button with a text inside it (lower Depth) , "Please Wait until the Ad is over to unlock this cool new feature" <<<--- Obviously write something smaller
once the Ad is done this button turns into an Active Button with a different Text " Click to Unlock" ... so this sounds pretty simple right ?
but then you say well.. what if the user will go out of the Ad or maybe go into the main Device Screen.. and will return later on...
well.. in order for the button to turn into an Active button which states Unlock is now "GOOD" , you have some options.
1. estimate time of an Ad ... I think the Ad services will tell you the Approx time of all ads that will be displayed... so you simply count a backwards timer with that "known approx " time and only when it reaches 0 you or less you will turn the button into an Unlock Button... but wait .. if the user moves away from the Ad .. you simply don't change the unlock button , so he will have to do it all over again .. don't forget to reset the timer.
2. check for pointer Clicked , cause some ads may ask you to touch it to run it .. so you check for that simple GetPointerPressed() after the Ad started , if yes... the timer start when the timer reaches 0 , again it will change into an unlock button.
3. Ask a Question about the Ad ?... well that's only if you know what Ad that was... and I guess you can use RenderToImage while the Ad is running to Check against a Known Image of an Ad if it matches.. then you know what Ad is being displayed.. (this is the hardest as it requires Visual Analytics)

I think the most simple yet accurate solution for this is option 1 and 2 combined.
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bjadams
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Posted: 27th Oct 2015 20:40
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@nickele the way things work around here is that users answer other users. I don't think TGC are not going to hire anyone to answer questions
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nickele upgraded
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Posted: 27th Oct 2015 21:08
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@ bjadams: I understand and don't want to force anyone at TGC at doing so. But since not all questions are answered by users, I was just wondering if that can be achieved through future funding.

@Markus: Whether we like it or not, ads are currently the ONLY guaranteed method of monetization, as the current trend that has surfaced amongst players favors the "free to play" model (which btw I hate). I don't want to force the player to watch an ad for 2 or 5 or 10 secs (something that the successful title "Crossy Road" does and users accept), I just want the ad to be displayed in a part of the screen where it doesn't interfere with the player experience. But -at the same time- I also want to be sure that this ad has been displayed and the ad provider will pay me for it.

However, I observed some free iOS games that only require ads to be displayed. If I disconnected the WiFi or the 3G network, some games would either display a black rectangle somewhere in screen, while others wouldn't display any ad. This means that no ad was served and, obviously, the ad provider wont pay an unseen ad.

This is what I want to avoid and also find out if the ad has been displayed.

@ Haliop_new: Your suggestions are appreciated, but what I don't know is if AppGameKit provides a command to make sure a real ad has been displayed, instead of a black box.
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nickele upgraded
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Posted: 27th Oct 2015 21:16
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Personally, I hate ads. I also hate the fact that it has become the only way for someone to make earnings.
Have a look at this article: http://gamasutra.com/view/news/235325/How_Crossy_Road_made_1_million_from_video_ads.php
For me, this is an absurd situation!
But -unfortunately- it is the dominant trend among players of mobile games.
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Markus
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Posted: 27th Oct 2015 21:21
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for feature requests we have a thread full of wished.
about "unanswered questions", would be nice to have a marking (icons) for the thread topic that the user can change always.
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CJB
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Posted: 27th Oct 2015 21:48
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Wow. There is a lot of hate for ads. Personally I think ads can contribute to a gaming experience if done properly. Ads don't always have to get in the way or interrupt your gaming. Sure, if they're done wrong they can be annoying, but those games won't get anywhere anyway.
People have been drooling over the new Star Wars trailer. That's an ad for a movie, so they're not all bad.
Plus what's wrong with wanting to earn a little from your endeavors? If I could turn my hobby into another income I'd be very happy indeed. Well placed, non intrusive Ads, could be the means to that end.
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bjadams
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Posted: 27th Oct 2015 22:28
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@nickele I think AppGameKit handles ads in its own way. for example on Windows, ads are saved to My Documents and then displayed. You can see these ad files in My documents.
For me this was always strange, and I really don't like all the internal graphic files that AppGameKit has to write to My Documents on Windows. No other lib does this, so why AppGameKit has to act as the odd one one?!!!
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nickele upgraded
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Posted: 27th Oct 2015 22:38
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@ CJB: I apologize for not expressing my thoughts correctly. As developers, we are forced to use the current monetization trend in the game development industry, which follows the free with ads or free to play accompanied by ads model. This model, however, favors the big companies and not the indie developers.

Let's face it: Today's gamers just ignore various priced games and turn their attention to free games and it's not their fault, they have been trained to.

But, since I am not able to follow the "one demo-one full game" model and make profits anymore, I find myself at a disadvantage when I have to make a commercial game that doesn't fully exploit the advertisement model, while I compete at the same time with huge companies. Look at "Crossy Road". It's not an original concept (damn, it's just a "frogger" rip-off) but it made lots of money because it handled advertisements in a clever way! If I make such a simple but elegant game, I wouldn't have the ability to monetize it.

If TGK builds the AppGameKit platform as a hobbyist platform then I apologize for starting this post. But if they think (and I am sure they do) that AppGameKit is a serious, professional development kit, they must follow the trends. A hot trend at the time being is ads!

While I was writing these lines I did a google search about "admob functions" and found that the admob api provides many commands (adListeners they're called?) for handling an ad. Why can't we have these commands and give an extra boost to our apps -if we indeed want to commercialize our games? Just a thought.
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Markus
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Posted: 27th Oct 2015 23:11
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about millionaire with ads. hmm, ads are must have.
myself i think the possibilities with app stores are a great opportunity.
my attempt is less effort and a good result.
me focusing casual gaming.
AGK (Steam) V2 Beta .. : Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit : AMD (15.7.1) Radeon R7 265 : Mac mini OS X 10.10 (Yosemite)
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Grook
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Posted: 27th Oct 2015 23:20
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@nickele: You've pretty much hit upon the biggest problem with AGK: it isn't responsive enough to changes in the real world. When something becomes popular and mainstream e.g. google play services, we have to wait years for AppGameKit to take up the task of giving us access to them. Same can be said with the trend for adverts. Mobile platforms are constantly in flux and you have to be able to match that ever changing environment but with one man developing - it's not going to happen. It's a tough ask because things change so fast and you can waste time and effort providing support for something that disappears as soon as you're done with the dev, but you just have to be smart and make the right decisions. It's such a shame as AppGameKit is hands-down (IMHO) the simplest scripting game dev engine out there for the power you can get from it. Close but not quite close enough; all the time.
\"It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it\'s called Life.”
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nickele upgraded
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Posted: 27th Oct 2015 23:25
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@ Grook: I couldn't have said it better! Thank you Grook!
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Zeerun
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Posted: 28th Oct 2015 09:30 Edited at: 28th Oct 2015 14:37
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Would it be possible for you to take the ad manager away from AppGameKit?
If you have your own webspace you could set up an advertising page powered by something like Google Adsense.
Then your code could call a HTTP request to your ad page and pass back a response when the ad is loaded?

Along the same lines, you could do both, call the ad through AppGameKit as usual, and also ping your website, (or even ping a known source of your ads to check against any ad blockers) it's not a guarantee but if you get a hit from the ping then odds are your ad got a hit too?

EDIT:
OR if you know it is black when no ad, check the colour behind certain pixels on the space where the ad goes and check over time if any changes from black
First AppGameKit app out of the door: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=206698&b=48
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bjadams
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Posted: 28th Oct 2015 10:55
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Does AppGameKit support iAd on iOS?
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xCept
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Posted: 28th Oct 2015 18:56
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@BJAdams, not officially, but I wrote a tutorial a couple years ago about integrating iAds and Admob for Tier 1 using Admob Mediation. Some aspects likely changed by now but the basic process should still be valid. This method opens the doors for other ad service support as well.

@Grook, I agree completely. For instance, it is still not possible to even control the ad size in AGK; we are constrained to classic 320px wide banners or interstitials where supported. When working directly with the Admob API it is as simple as passing a flag to set the size of the banner (i.e., SMART_BANNER will adapt to the full screen width, FULL_BANNER, LARGE_BANNER, MEDIUM_RECTANGLE, etc.) I can't understand why this simple capability has not been added for AppGameKit users yet as part of the ad initialization process. This has been requested since at least early 2013 but never added. When these third party SDKs change it can take many months for AppGameKit to reflect it. I feel that the development roadmap for AppGameKit should had included some form of third party extensibility so others could manage and improve on certain aspects like ad service integration.

From my own experience, ad revenue has proven by far the most effective, financially. It has been said that only 1-3% of all users will ever buy in-app purchases or full apps. In my next app I will experiment with having ads but the ability to remove them along with other IAP to see how it goes.
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Grook
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Posted: 28th Oct 2015 23:03
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@xCept - Frustrating isn't it! The thing is that most of these facilities work in the same way, callable API's, web posting etc. It should be perfectly possible to integrate these things in a configurable way to future-proof them at least in the short term. I think most people buy a game dev engine because they think they can make a little money from it. I think we all have one good idea that could work, but if we don't have a way to monetise it and keep up with the latest trends on the monetisation of apps,we lose interest and try another engine. I constantly seem to be knocking AppGameKit lately, but it's down to frustration; I'm so sure a little concentration in the right areas could make AppGameKit no. 1. 3D was not the way to go for me, how many months has it taken so far. I know for the Kickstarter it had to be done but I think of what we could have had if the resource had been spent on other things. But that's a personal opinion, 3D doesn't interest me - I know it's a big deal for others (though I don't know why?) - the vast majority of the big sellers, the big money makers have been 2D. Full integration with the popular toolkits like Google Play and the big advertisers, regular updates to keep them working, easily achieved polish for your games (sprite shaders is a good start, but that's all it is) - wow, the possibilities... Sorry, waffling and ranting now; I'll shut up.
"It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.”
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xCept
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Posted: 28th Oct 2015 23:46 Edited at: 28th Oct 2015 23:47
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@Grook, very true! Not to stray from the subject of ads specifically, but I invested several months of development time trying to use AppGameKit to port two of my original non-AGK iOS applications to Android. I wound up with 98% of the first application complete and about 60% with the second one done before running into simply unsolvable AppGameKit limitations that forced me to shelve them and pursue other platforms. The first app I began porting in the early days of V2 required heavy use of OpenGL blend modes. V2 promised in the Kickstarter to support "Sprite Blending Modes", yet in the end they only ever added an additive blending mode; I had expected full GL blend mode support as almost every other engine supports and programmatically shouldn't have been very difficult to integrate into AppGameKit as extra parameters by the end user (another feature requested since at least 2013). I feel that more time could have been spent creating a rock solid 2D engine with a full feature set before delving into other prospects like 3D and other things that weren't even part of the Kickstarter such as Spriter support. Box2d is also not a complete implementation and never has been. I love the syntax and easiness of AppGameKit compared to every other system I've used but cannot overcome some of its limitations.
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bjadams
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Posted: 29th Oct 2015 07:00
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@xCept if TGC does not have an urgent need for a specific functionality, forget it that it you will see it in AppGameKit anytime soon
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Grook
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Posted: 29th Oct 2015 09:22
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@xCept - Damn! Box2D, I'd forgotten about that one. Spot on. So near yet so far - would it really take that long to sort out all these nearly-there's? What a product we would have then...
"It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.”
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