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Geek Culture / Robot Update

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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 12th Dec 2003 21:10
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Day 1

Well, as some of you know i am makeing a robot. And Yesterday christmas break started

So i have been working on my robot, and will do every day. So as it may interest you, i will write a diary for you to see how it is comming along.

Here are the so far pics:





Today i cut the base out, took about 4 hours, and drilled the wholes.

The 2 'eyes' i made about a month ago, they are ultra sonnic range sensors, like radar.

Tomorra i hope to get started on mounting the drive train assembly!

Regards,

- Martyn

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TKF15H
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Posted: 12th Dec 2003 21:13
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Hey, looks good. What are you going to use for locomotion?
Legs or wheels?

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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 12th Dec 2003 21:23
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Wheels , lemmi find the site i got it from.



1ms max speed, aparently...

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Dec 2003 21:34
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that reminds me i've gotta buy a new digicam, something in the 3megapixel range lol

looking good ^_^ ... sweet motors, those 200miliw are quite nippy.
you know you can get better torque by putting them onto a small tranny setup something like a 1:15 -> 1:25 -> 1:3 and should get some decent power out of it with the sacrifice of a little speed.
throw some rubber cat tracks and you can basically get it to go anywhere ^_^


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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 12th Dec 2003 21:40
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Lol,

Well i already got loads of torque, the assembly contains a worm drive, should be good for 2kg @ 0.5ms so pretty good

Cost £37.20 though!!!

NM

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Chris K
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Posted: 12th Dec 2003 21:40
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Are you coding a 'brain' for the robot?

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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 12th Dec 2003 21:51
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Yes, i am using a microcontroller with a special preprogramed interpreter.

This means i can program in BASIC and download to the microcontroller with about £3 worth of stuff (cable is £2.50 only need one, the rest is 2 resistors and a 3 way stereo socket).

I would use assemble, but this is my first bot so i thought basic would be a good way to get into it.

The chip i am using is called a PICAXE 28X, it has 20 I/O lines and room for 600 lines of code.

I am also using there PICAXE chips:

08 - For the Ultra Sonnic Timing, Ultra Sonnics finished and programed.
08 - For PC Input Buffer
18X - For PC Communications.

I am writing some C++ stuff to allow me to control/debug/simulate the robot.

Basically i wonna play with it, but not have to chase it around the room, so i plan to simulate a virual room/maze etc. I can then feed it with feedback from the room (Like data from the ultra sonnics) and then use the robots responce to move the robot.

But, i am only just getting round the protocol theory, like how i am going to get em to talk and be 'audiable'.

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Slayer
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Posted: 12th Dec 2003 22:04 Edited at: 12th Dec 2003 22:07
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I allways was into that kind of stuf. you think you show some places
to get one started in what your doing. never new someone could
program there robots. man this fills like when I firs found out
how to make games. If you can this will set me to another goal,
programing games, programing and making robots!
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Chris K
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Posted: 12th Dec 2003 22:51
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Where did you get all the kit from?
How much was it?

PS. That second photo looks really professional!

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Slayer
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Posted: 12th Dec 2003 23:01
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go to one of those chipset web sits. I found alot of stofe.
maybe Martyn Pittuck could show some better places. Another
thing its very cheap for robotec stof.
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Slayer
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Posted: 12th Dec 2003 23:03
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you should see the BASIC code for tham its just like darkbasicpro!!
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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 13th Dec 2003 10:03
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www.tech-supplies.co.uk

This is the main site i have got stuff from for this robot. But next project i am going to use proper PIC's (from microchip.com) which need proper programmer hardware etc.

The PICaxe system is meant for schools in a way, but its great for small projects and/or beginers. Also as PICaxe chips are just preprogramed PICs, i can easily replace them with the real PICs and then program them in assembler

BTW, i am a ammeture photographer. It is another hobby i enjoy...

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Dec 2003 10:38
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i tended to get alot of electronics from Maplin, they had a store locally in Watford; and were pretty cheap. (plus they sold computer component from when dad made them by hand)

and i think you can pickup simple Robot kits in most good toy outlets.
I mean Zoids are a cross between a Robot and an Airfix kit; which are pretty fun. Then you have those little insect ones they sell in Toys'R'Us, infact they have quite a few from beginner to expert levels... the UK has more than most if my memory serves correctly.

infact actually Maplin do sell alot of the kits and "how to make" books about robots and such. Plus the web has an invaluable source of information or used to be back in the late 90s when i took electronics at school.


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Chris K
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Posted: 13th Dec 2003 11:27 Edited at: 13th Dec 2003 11:38
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Ok, so if I wanted to make a robot with a few sensors (light/ sound etc.) and a few output devices (motors/lights etc.) that I could program in BASIC to do something like, if it hears a sound, wait for two seconds, then reverse away flashing its light on and off, what would I need?

Could I code it like DB? ----> IF soundsensor()=1 then run motor

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Dec 2003 11:36
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you'd have to have someone create the PARSER from BASIC to ASM, but yeah that could work like that

http://www.maplin.co.uk


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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 13th Dec 2003 18:31
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RS360S motors, there's a lil' trick you can do with those to get a bit more grunt :

Remove the plastic end caps by breaking the tabs and then rotate the end cap a few degrees. You will need some plastic/metal glue to reattach it as the end cap plugs will no longer be in line with the metal lugs.

Once glued back together you will have more grunt in exchange for a shortened battery life. If you use Nickel Cadium batteries you can train the batteries to perform better by never, ever, turning the power off before they are dead + 30 seconds. Soon the cell memory will help give you extra life in the batteries.

Additionally if your batteries are multi-cell (ie: more than 1 battery per pack) try soldering together a bulb (sidelights from a car work well) with some wire and crocodile clips, connect this to the Ni-Cads after use and totally drain the battery down before recharging them. This will ensure that each cell is completely flat and is important because charging occurs at the same rate, but discharging between different cells occurs at different speeds. Always trickle charge every 3-4 fast charges to ensure maximum battery duration.

This combination of tricks should enable you to get up to about 10-20% more performance for the same running time without the need for more voltage, more wire on the amateur or bigger electro magnets.


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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 13th Dec 2003 21:12
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lol.

Anyhow, try www.picaxe.com for the microcontroller.

No converters needed. Just use the simple programming language that runs off the chips. Buy the prototype board (will save time and mistakes), or make the download circuit. Then use the serial cable to program it (No seperate programmer required.

Day 2

Well errm, no photo yet as i cannot be bothered, maybe a little later.

I cut the metal for holding the motor today, not much work, but i had to wait to go out and get the right size bolts...

Next i have to 'seat' the drive assembly. This is hard, i have to cut a rectangle out of the base plate, in the middle, in order to 'sink' the motors down so i get enough clearence to run it on carpet. Should take an hour or so, but a lot of filing!

Anyhow, i am happy with how things are going and i should get the components i need to finish on monday.

- MP

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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 13th Dec 2003 22:58 Edited at: 13th Dec 2003 22:59
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Picture!





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Slayer
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Posted: 14th Dec 2003 00:35
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Thats a good camera. um what are you going to program it to do?
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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 14th Dec 2003 18:16
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Its not just a good camera, its a good photographer! [All manual settins!]

Basic object ovoidance to start with. Then i will add more sensors and see where things end up.

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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 14th Dec 2003 22:47
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kewlio!


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Chris K
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Posted: 14th Dec 2003 22:51
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Sorry to be so annoying but I really want to get into robot making/ programming.

What (exactly) do I need to make a simple bot that can react to a few sensors (about five) - based on BASIC programming - with a few devices (about five as well)

As I understand it, I need :-

- PICAXE-08 microcontroller
- Light sensors etc.
- Motors
- Wires to connect it to my computer
- Software

Can I just solder wires to the microcontroller or do I need a board?

PS. What do you think of some of my photos?:

http://www.posergallery.com/wip/20031214-CKnott155247.jpg
http://www.posergallery.com/wip/20031214-CKnott155314.jpg
http://www.posergallery.com/wip/20031214-CKnott155351.jpg
http://www.posergallery.com/wip/20031214-CKnott155411.jpg
http://www.posergallery.com/wip/20031214-CKnott155441.jpg
http://www.posergallery.com/wip/20031214-CKnott15554.jpg

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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 14th Dec 2003 23:01
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dude! those photos are sweeet!


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Chris K
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Posted: 14th Dec 2003 23:10 Edited at: 14th Dec 2003 23:11
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Cheers.
Check this one out:
http://www.posergallery.com/wip/20031214-CKnott161449.jpg
I got it when I was trying to take the third one, but I timed it too well and got it when the 1p was just in the water. It looks like it is floating!

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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 15th Dec 2003 09:45
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Well i did reply but apollo crashed with a page cannot be displayed!

Hell, not writing that again!!! I will try again later.

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Chris K
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Posted: 15th Dec 2003 10:01 Edited at: 15th Dec 2003 12:07
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Oh, great.

Please write it soon.

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Chris K
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Posted: 15th Dec 2003 10:53 Edited at: 15th Dec 2003 11:05
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Where did you get the radar sensors from?

This is what I'm thinking for my robot:

A little bug that drives around randomly, ovoiding objects.
If it gets into a dark area then it turns it's headlight on.
If it is hot then it finds shade and waits there.

Senosrs/Devices:
- Temperature Sensor
- Radar 'eyes'
- Light Sensor
- Motor x2
- Light

Edit------------------------

Like this:


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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 15th Dec 2003 13:22
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ok pretty easy.

everything you need can be got from www.techsupplies.co.uk

Have a look round.

You will need:

18X Microcontroller (So u can use the i2c temperature sensor)
Solar Motor + Worm Drive (In the modeling materials setion under gears and that)
Light Sensors are there too, under compnents i think, called LDR's
Ultra Sonnics Unit.
Lights can be done with ultra bright LEDs

Remember, read the datasheets. I would sugest you go to the www.picaxe.com forum and ask there, they will be much more help as i am making a much more complicated robot.

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Chris K
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Posted: 15th Dec 2003 14:24
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OK. But what is the basic kit I need to program the chip?
The wires, board etc.

Can the chips store information in an array (Do they have any memory)?
--------------------------
What's your robot going to do?
If I find making my first one easy then I would make one that could go round a room, storing in where objects are and then make a floor plan of it. That would be pretty cool.

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Mussi
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Posted: 15th Dec 2003 20:13
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hehe, cool project , there was a magazine once where you get some part of a robot each magazine, it explained how to put everything together and stuff, bought the first magazine...after that I couldn't find the other magazines so I stopt, but I was always interested in these thing, think I'll try to put one togheter to

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Critters
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Posted: 15th Dec 2003 20:33
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I used to be into that sortof stuff ahwile ago, its really insteresting. Although i never got very far

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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 15th Dec 2003 21:56
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Real Robot Magazine. I got up to issue 52, stopped now casue i cannot mod it!

Crummy system they use...

Anyhow.

Today I cut out the hole for the motors took over 3 hours cause i had to drill then file the middle of the base plate out!. But i am all ready to put the motors on now, and then i am going to set up a quick tester using bread board and 6V supply to see how fast it goes (And if the motors run @ the same speed!!)

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Chris K
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Posted: 31st Dec 2003 13:10
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How's it going?

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simonuk74
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Posted: 1st Jan 2004 00:18
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Hi, I`ve always been very interested in robots, but have not had the real resourses to build anything yet , but I do have LOTS of ideas on paper, although most of them may or may not work, as I drew them when I was about 16 yrs old, and the designs were seriously over ambitious - IE, my design was based on number 5 from the short cicuit film

if any one is interested ( when I get a scanner ), I`ll put some of the ideas up here, or I`ll re-draw them on my PC, if and when I have time.

One thing that I have noticed here, is that no one has mentioned useing an OOPIC ? ( www.oopic.com )
I dont know for sure, but the systems the oopic uses seem very good, simple to use, and easily upgradable.

The oopic seems the ideal ( to me anyway ) cpu system for a robot, although it seems they have many other uses

I dont mean to sound like I`m advertising the product, lol, as I have no connection with them, just that I stumbled across their site a little while ago, and I think it may be worth a look!

Simon
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Chris K
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Posted: 1st Jan 2004 00:36
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PICAXE looks the best to me.
What advantages does OOPIC have?

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simonuk74
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Posted: 1st Jan 2004 00:52
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to be honest, I¬d look at the site, and compare it to the PICAXE yourself, and I have no idea about the pic of your choice.

but I do know that the oopic can directly input to a pc, and u get a prog with it, for your pc, so you can code a prog, like in DB, and download it to the oopic. Theres the ability to directly control servos, lcd displays, ultrasonics & infra-red.

I also, know it has 16 IO data lines, and it can be networked with ( i think ) upto 128 other oopic systems.

but for the best info, check the site - www.oopic.com

Simon
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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 1st Jan 2004 11:48
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Picaxe comes in a variety of sized, from 8pin to 40 pin. with the i2c interface on the 18X, 28X and 40X u can easily add 20+ Logic I/O lines.

With the picaxe u also get a program to allow downloading of the program. Easy to do, the download circut has 3 components, stereo socket (3 lines???), 2 resistors. Pretty easy to do!.

You can debug variables to the PC, but there is no direct communication at the moment. But who cares Using QBasic and a Parralel port u can have like 20 I/O lines to control your bot!


My robot is half on hold for the moment. I have done more than is in the pictures, like the whole circuit and added another layer for sensors + batteries etc. I am hoping to release my PHP Script on Sat/Sunday after that its beack to robot for a week, then i will alternate with PHP and robot

Thank,

- MP

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qwe
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2004 19:31 Edited at: 3rd Jan 2004 19:32
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Martyn i'm making an electronics simulator program in db, it's mostly finished i just need to add more pieces now. i'd like your help with digital pieces since im not very knowledgable on them, if you choose to help could you please email me with reply? i can email the program, though dont have a website

edit chriscontreras1@aol.com

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qwe
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2004 00:28
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how does a transistor work?
it seems that you send a positive force thru the middle connector, and this enables current to go from left to right connector, but wouldnt the positive force have to then go out one of the other connectors, turning it on?

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Jeku
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2004 00:44
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Wow, Chris, nice photos! Hope you don't mind I'm using the B&W pipe pic for my Windows wallpaper

I would love to make a robot that was smart enough to put together a copy of itself from a pile of parts. The new clones would then immediately create copies of themselves from the pile, and so on. Maybe a bit too much like the Terminator, huh

- JeKu

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