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AppGameKit Classic Chat / TWITCH Broadcast Videos and Chat

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LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
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Posted: 21st Apr 2016 14:22 Edited at: 28th Apr 2016 18:33
For the next week or so, I will be hosting a 30-minute session on moving your Tier 1 BASIC knowledge over to Tier 2 C++ know-how, and demonstrate this live so you can see how easy the process of becoming a C++ programmer can be. I'm doing this to help anyone who has been thinking of doing this generally, but specifically, we have a project being ramped up which will pay any coder £500 to write a small educational app if they can deliver it quickly and to a set quality standard. We've gobbled up all our contacts in the Tier 2 world, and so to help Tier 1 users make the leap and earn some cash I've volunteered to step in with a few videos. As this will be a live event, you are welcome to post your questions during the broadcast and I will be happy to answer them if I can. It's been a few years since I've had the fun of writing some AppGameKit code, but I'm sure my vague knowledge of the subject should be sufficient to muddle through. For more information on the opportunity to help us create small educational apps, you can contact Rick Vanner directly at rick@thegamecreators.com

For those wishing you join in the live session, it's at 4PM BST today, which is Thursday 21st April 2016, and I will be sure to post the video once it has been uploaded to YouTube. I will be using my regular GameGuru twitch channel to host the event, but if there is much demand for more along the same lines, we can set something up specifically dedicated to the world of AppGameKit. Here is the channel, which goes live in under two hours: https://www.twitch.tv/gamegurulee
Hogging the awesome since 1999
CJB
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Posted: 21st Apr 2016 14:55
Great stuff Lee! Good to hear from you in the AppGameKit forum for a change

Really looking forward to this. Shame it's during work hours though

V2 T1 (Mostly)
Phone Tap!
Uzmadesign
baxslash
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Posted: 21st Apr 2016 15:14
I'll watch this later... not sure if I'll have time to program for TGC but who knows...? Might be a nice distraction!
Using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
Morcilla
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Posted: 21st Apr 2016 15:52
Great idea, but I think that the announcement has been to close to the broadcast itself, therefore many people will have missed it.
Anyway, we'll watch the video when published. Thank you.
Mobiius
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Posted: 21st Apr 2016 16:19
I'm at work so can't watch, but I'll watch the posted video later.
LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
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Posted: 21st Apr 2016 17:14
The video should be uploaded and viewable after 6PM BST. The link will be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMwkvCQ0910
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Ched80
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Posted: 21st Apr 2016 19:11
Great video! I'm converted. I was scared of C++ before I watched this.
Digital Awakening
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Posted: 21st Apr 2016 20:24
I might look into this once Rush to Adventure is complete. Thanks for sharing
Cor
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2016 00:25
awesome, i emailed rick!
Sph!nx
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2016 13:18
Thank you very much, Lee! Tier 2 seems a little less scary now!
Regards Sph!nx
Battoad
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2016 13:27
2 questions if someone could help?
Can some tier 2 coding be incorporated in to tier 1 code or do they both need to be totally separate?

From Lees video it suggests we write a program initially in tier 1 then convert it to tier 2. Is this what most are doing whilst learning?
Hockeykid
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2016 21:32
Quote: "From Lees video it suggests we write a program initially in tier 1 then convert it to tier 2. Is this what most are doing whilst learning?"


You could, however I wouldn't suggest it. The point of Lee's video was mainly to show how easy it can be to hop from Tier 1 to Tier 2. However, it does not cover (because it's not the purpose of the video) the differences between BASIC and C++. If you have never done any C++ than the conversion method is a good way to "get your feet wet." The reason I wouldn't suggest doing it for more than just getting acquainted with the language is because there are concepts from BASIC that aren't acceptable or as straightforward in C++ and so you need to learn the proper way of doing it. For example, "Global Variables" in C++ are generally not recommended. Another example is C++ has references and pointers. These differences would really change the layout, flow, and organization of your game (for the better) if done in C++ from the start.


Sean
Battoad
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2016 13:15
Thank you Hockeykid. For someone just toe dipping, the water looks a bit deep.
bjadams
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2016 21:47
Has the video been posted yet?
Wilf
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Posted: 27th Apr 2016 16:59 Edited at: 27th Apr 2016 17:18
Sure has:



I'm looking forward to the next one.
I'm wondering how much faster Tier 2 is than Tier 1; right now I'm trying to get a good framerate with Go Team Yeah on Amazon FireTV but it slows down a lot when any Spine skeletons are displayed.
LeeBamber
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Posted: 28th Apr 2016 18:31 Edited at: 28th Apr 2016 18:32
Second video from the live broadcasting experiment:


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DavidAGK
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Posted: 28th Apr 2016 22:23
I'm also keen to hear what the performance difference is between T1 and T2. Anyone able to offer some comparison? Is it 10% faster in T2 or 50% or double the speed? That would be the main reason I'd get into C++

Using Tier 1 AppGameKit V2
Started coding with AMOS (Thanks Francois Lionet)
Mobiius
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Posted: 29th Apr 2016 08:26 Edited at: 29th Apr 2016 08:26
Tier 1 is ridiculously fast as it is. The main reason to get into C++ should be for OOP and the fact it's an industry standard.

Still, I'd love an tier 3 Java!
Digital Awakening
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Posted: 29th Apr 2016 09:48
Saw the first part yesterday, that's simple enough. I have some basic understanding of C++. But then if I look at what I am planning for my next game, I think I have a lot to learn about C++. Things I have figured out how to do in Basic but would probably be easier or better to do in C++. But I have no idea how to do.

The advantage for me to switch over to tier 2 is because I can add more functionality, outside of AGK. I would also have a more powerful language. The downside is that it would require a whole lot more work to get started. I am planning to do a 2D framework that I can then use to make more games. So it would make sense to do that in C++ from the start.
Zigi
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Posted: 29th Apr 2016 10:52 Edited at: 29th Apr 2016 14:13
I'm trying to convert the 3D First Person example from Tier 1 to Tier 2 but I have trouble with the variables inside the loadworld() function.
This is the C++ code:



And this is the lines I have problem with and the error messages:



I was reading the AppGameKit documentation and I was also google how some of these can be done in C++ without using the agk commands but I can't find the solution for this error messages

If anyone could help me with this I would appreciate that.

@LEE:
Regardless if I get any help with my problem from the community or not, for the next videos In my opinion you should go through all the fundamentals of C++ to avoid such errors I'm facing here.
Start with the basics, Hello World without getting in to any game related task using the agk commands and continue from there all the way through the necessary staff that is required to create the logic such as:

-statements
-loops
-variable types
-arrays
-classes
-functions
-operations
-combining values
-converting values
-and any C++ goodness that as a Tier 1 programmer I may don't know about but could make my life easier in the world of C++.

Since the purpose of the videos is to help Tier 1 programmers move to Tier 2 and not to teach programming to complete beginners, I believe the basics and fundamentals of C++ can be explained in 1 or 2 hours and then you can add anything you (a long time C++ programmer) think can be useful to know and answer questions too.
Please do a plan what you going to talk about in the broadcast and stick to that. Better if you write a script and build the videos on top of each other not just rush in and talk about something comes in to your mind or the community asking about. Need a plan and need to build up the content of the videos from start to finish in my opinion.
The agk staff is easy, most of the things works exactly the same as in Tier 1, the problem I have is mostly C++ related.

Thanks.
Digital Awakening
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Posted: 29th Apr 2016 11:20 Edited at: 29th Apr 2016 15:25
Quote: "
-statements
-loops
-variable types
-arrays
-classes
-functions
-operations
-combining values
-converting values
"


That's the stuff I want to know too. Also, how to put all these things into multiple files. We could make this 30-60 minutes each week.
Wilf
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Posted: 29th Apr 2016 14:22
Yep thats a great list.
Paronamixxe
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Posted: 29th Apr 2016 14:52
@Digital Awakening and @Zigi +1
Variable types and placing code in multiple files would be nice to know how to do.
cheers
Hockeykid
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Posted: 30th Apr 2016 02:46 Edited at: 30th Apr 2016 03:06
Quote: "And this is the lines I have problem with and the error messages:"


C does not have "strings" like AppGameKit does, instead it uses arrays of characters. However in C++ this is "fixed" by making a class called "string."


I have just taken a few minutes and converted the 3D example to C++. I did this using the method shown in Lee's video of taking the BASIC code and converting it line by line (which I usually wouldn't do). As I said above things like global variables should be avoided in C++ and in C++ there are better ways to do things. However to not confuse anyone I have kept it the way Lee is teaching in his videos.

You can see how I handled the C-String to std::string situation in the loadworld() function:




Quote: "The agk staff is easy, most of the things works exactly the same as in Tier 1, the problem I have is mostly C++ related."

If you (or others) want I can make a Tier 2 C++ help thread for anyone trying to jump from Tier 1 to Tier 2 to ask C++ related questions (that might not need their own thread).

Wilf wrote: "I'm wondering how much faster Tier 2 is than Tier 1"

DavidAGK wrote: "I'm also keen to hear what the performance difference is between T1 and T2. Anyone able to offer some comparison? Is it 10% faster in T2 or 50% or double the speed? That would be the main reason I'd get into C++"


C++ is likely quite a bit faster than you might think. Here's a good article that shows the speed differences between languages, while AppGameKit isn't one of the languages tested it is still gives you a good idea of how much faster native code (C++) usually is than an interpreted language (like AGK).

Here's an image from the article look at GCC:C and compare it to anything that has its time in black (like Perl, Python, R, Lua, etc):



I'll write a benchmark for AppGameKit vs C++ and post the results here sometime soon.

Sean
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Posted: 30th Apr 2016 03:50
Are there jobs still open for making educational apps? I would be interested but would like to know details and where to sign up.
Digital Awakening
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Posted: 30th Apr 2016 09:36
I just wanted to add that the benchmark Hockeykid posted are of very instruction heavy tasks. C++ won't make AppGameKit render things faster. For most games that we here will make, there will be very minor advantages in speed.
Mobiius
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Posted: 30th Apr 2016 13:01
I'd like to know about creating classes, and arrays of said classes. I'd love to convert my game engine to c++ and OOP.
Digital Awakening
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Posted: 30th Apr 2016 14:09 Edited at: 30th Apr 2016 14:10
Quote: "I'd like to know about creating classes, and arrays of said classes. I'd love to convert my game engine to c++ and OOP."


That's what I'm thinking. Except that I have plans for an engine/framework and doing it in C++ from the start is probably a good idea. But I think it's better to not skip any steps before that. Seems to me that classes and OOP are the final steps.
Ched80
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Posted: 30th Apr 2016 19:48
@Digital Awakening and @Zigi +1
That list covers what I would like to know.
In tier 1 I'd split my code into many many separate files, I don't like having all the code in one massive file.

Covering how variables should be dealt with would be good. I usually have 100s of global variables so I'd be really interested in how I should be handling these.

I'm not particularly interested in performance improvement. In my space game I ran into all sorts of precision problems due to the way tier 1 handles floats. In C++ I can get all the precision I need.
Digital Awakening
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Posted: 9th May 2016 20:18
So, there was no video last week? Will there be one this week?

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