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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Disappointed with The Grame Creators as a whole

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Sosukodo
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Posted: 1st Oct 2016 19:46
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Why aren't all AppGameKit Mac apps signed? I mean it's only $99 per year for an Apple Developer account. I sign mine - why don't you? When you don't sign your apps, it makes you look unprofessional.

Nowhere on the App Game Kit website is there an obvious place to get to my downloads. Why is it so difficult to figure out where I can download the products I've paid for? Because the SINGLE point of entry for login is a teensy, tiny, microscopic, little icon at the top right of thegamecreators.com website..

I've contacted customer support and they seemed baffled concerning my comments.
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easter bunny
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Playing: Dota 2
Posted: 1st Oct 2016 22:42
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TGC is a small company, about 5-10 employees I think? It seems like you're disappointed with their web design and with Paul not taking the time to sign the Mac version.
Well I dont know anything about their web designer, they might have outsourced it, but either way I've never found their website difficult to navigate. It's pretty standard to have login/account/shopping buttons in the top right. I've seen websites made a lot worse

As for the Mac signing, I know Paul is very busy trying to develop agk, and the community certainly throws a lot at him. Perhaps he simply forgot to sign the latest version? Who can say. However it doesn't affect the functionality of agk itself. It just makes it appear slightly less professional which shouldn't really be a huge issue.

Just keep in mind that tgc is a very small company, who are making a quality product. Sure agk doesn't live up to everybody's expectations, but if you're wanting a professional product, then use Unity or cryengine. The fact is agk is very very good at what it's supposed to do. In fact I'd say that it is hands down THE best option for individual developers creating hobby projects and potentially making a solid profit.

Audacia Games - Latest WIP - AUTOMAYTE 2.1, AppGameKit one click deploy to Android
130,000 installs with AppGameKit and counting
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JLMoondog
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2016 08:56
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Hey Sosukodo, it's always great to see new members and AppGameKit developers join the TGC forums! As a long time member and developer, AGK/DB user myself, I'd like to welcome you to this amazing community!

To address some of your concerns..

Quote: " Why aren't all AppGameKit Mac apps signed? I mean it's only $99 per year for an Apple Developer account. I sign mine - why don't you? When you don't sign your apps, it makes you look unprofessional."


Is this really that big of a deal? I don't use Mac's myself, so I can't speak from experience as a Mac user, or from using a TGC product on the Mac platform. But I'd have to disagree with you, personally I don't find this unprofessional and from what I know, you only need to disable Gatekeeper to run the program? Anyone please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm quite naive when it comes to Mac's.

TGC is a long running, indie size, ran, company that has a very good track record for developing and releasing amazing game development programs, languages/compilers and even developing apps and games. Their reputation speaks volumes and you can trust the people behind the name. Just out of curiosity, which TGC apps are not signed?

Quote: "Nowhere on the App Game Kit website is there an obvious place to get to my downloads. Why is it so difficult to figure out where I can download the products I've paid for? Because the SINGLE point of entry for login is a teensy, tiny, microscopic, little icon at the top right of thegamecreators.com website.."


On the TGC home page, you just hit the profile icon in the top right corner of the screen, as long as you're logged in. I recommend purchasing the apps and programs on Steam, most of the apps if you purchase on the TGC site, will give you a Steam key to unlock in on the Steam platform. This is my personal preference because updates are always automatic, apps are always the latest version. I'm a huge Steam user, so I always have it running and it makes it easy to just pull up the console and hitting the AppGameKit II Launch icon. Look into it, you probably have Steam keys in your TGC profile on the main site.

Quote: "I've contacted customer support and they seemed baffled concerning my comments."


I had no idea TGC had a phone line dedicated to customer support.. I'm a little curious to what exactly their response was to your query? Next time if you have a question concerning any of the TGC products, or anything to do with app/game development or using a TGC product to do so, jump on the forums, find the correct Board and create a thread with your question. There is not a single community in the world that beats the TGC community, in terms of helpfulness and open arms concerning new users.

Thanks for taking the time to post your questions here on the forums. It's sad that you are disappointed over a few very minor things..Make sure you come back, take a look to see if you have Steam keys and hopefully you'll feel better about TGC. Looking forward to seeing what you contribute to the community and any future app/game projects you dive into.

Cheers!
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baxslash
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2016 17:23
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I have to be honest the profile icon in the top right corner of a website is pretty standard... it's the first place I look. I'd be a bit baffled myself.
Using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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Scraggle
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2016 18:44 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2016 21:02
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[Edit]
It seems the profile icon thing has been fixed. It used to just log you out but now it takes you to the dashboard = much better!
AGK V2 user - Tier 1 (mostly)
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LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
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Posted: 4th Oct 2016 04:11
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@Sosukodo : Not baffled, I just don't see the need to duplicate functionality. Surely you want us working on product development rather than expanding our websites As it stands we have several websites (GameGuru, AppGameKit, EduGuru), all featuring different products, but in order to keep all your TGC downloads in one place we use www.thegamecreators.com site as the nexus for log-in, payment, delivery and core forum support. We have found this has worked well for the last decade or so, allowing us to focus on development. I suggest we remove myself from the conversation (as you say I am a brick wall) and open it up to the community. Would you like me to share our conversations so far on this subject so everyone can get the background to this issue?
Hogging the awesome since 1999
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Sosukodo
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Posted: 4th Oct 2016 05:59
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Oh look how easy it was for a relatively new user to login to the forum: There's a huge "LOGIN" button! Shouldn't you be replacing that with a cute little, teensy, tiny icon?

I'm a reasonably intelligent person with plenty of experience with navigating websites and I'm telling you that your UX is flawed.

1. I shouldn't even have to check your website to see if there's an update for AppGameKit - the AppGameKit app should notify me automatically. That's first grade stuff.

2. Any reputable developer (or at least one that want's to APPEAR to be serious) signs both their Windows and Mac applications - just like Android and iOS apps.

3. Common sense should tell you that download/login links belong on the product's web site. Failing that, a link to your "central" login/download page from the product's page. Currently, AppGameKit.com has no such link. I searched up and down all over the AppGameKit site before I remembered that this was a Game Creators product. And there isn't a TGC link to be found on the front page of the AppGameKit website? SERIOUSLY?

4. When I complained, I got the same egotistical response via email as you see on this forum. If a customer came to me with similar concerns, I guarantee I wouldn't just shrug and say, "welp, works for everyone else!".

Yeah, you got my $99 so kudos to you but Cocos2d-x is looking better than this clunky outfit.
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JLMoondog
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Posted: 4th Oct 2016 08:51
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Sosukodo
Don't take offense to this question, I'm being serious when I ask this..but are you trolling or are you being genuinely serious about your concerns?

Honestly is sounds like you're complaining for complaining's sake. Read over my response post again, as I answer some of your concerns and I ask a few of my own...

Quote: "1. I shouldn't even have to check your website to see if there's an update for AppGameKit - the AppGameKit app should notify me automatically. That's first grade stuff."

Again, check my first response post, it states to look to see if you have a Steam key. The Steam version auto-updates whenever a new version comes out.

Quote: "2. Any reputable developer (or at least one that want's to APPEAR to be serious) signs both their Windows and Mac applications - just like Android and iOS apps."

Again, see my response post. I don't understand your concern with this matter. How does TGC seem like a non-reputable developer? Honestly it feels like you just want to call them names for the sake of it..

Quote: "3. Common sense should tell you that download/login links belong on the product's web site. Failing that, a link to your "central" login/download page from the product's page. Currently, AppGameKit.com has no such link. I searched up and down all over the AppGameKit site before I remembered that this was a Game Creators product. And there isn't a TGC link to be found on the front page of the AppGameKit website? SERIOUSLY?"

Again, check my response post. And again, check out the Steam key page, you'll never have to visit another TGC site again! lol

Quote: "4. When I complained, I got the same egotistical response via email as you see on this forum. If a customer came to me with similar concerns, I guarantee I wouldn't just shrug and say, "welp, works for everyone else!"."

Check my response post. I have no idea what you're talking about or what you're referring too. You didn't actually tel us what response you got from customer support. I also gave you a lengthy response and it would seem you skipped reading the whole thing. Though maybe you did, I don't know. Let me know if you found my info useful or if there is anything else you need help with.

Quote: "Yeah, you got my $99 so kudos to you but Cocos2d-x is looking better than this clunky outfit."

Sooo I'm confused.. Did you purchase AppGameKit to develop games, or did you buy it to use TGC's website? Seriously, if you've decided to stop using AppGameKit just because it took you a little longer to find your product download page, than there's more going on than a silly website issue. AppGameKit is an awesome language to learn and develop games, giving up on it for such a silly reason is ludicrous.

I took a look at Cocos2d-x. I think you're confused, as Cocos2d-x and AGKII are two totally different tools. They're not even the same thing...not even close. Cocos2d-x is a set of libraries for C++ to help you create openGL/GUI apps and games for multiple platforms. It's a library and you must use and know how to program in C++.
AGKII is an actual, self-contained, basic language and compiler, used to create apps and games for multiple platforms. It is not a library and you don't need to know C++ to use it. It uses a basic syntax, similar to the basic languages of the past. Very easy to learn and you can have programs up and running in literal minutes. Unlike Cocos2d-x, which takes a large amount of setup time to get a simple 'hello world' program up and running, not to mention running on a different platform, such as mobile. AGKII can instantly test apps and programs on mobile or any other platform using a broadcast feature in seconds.
Two completely different products. Your comment about Cocos2d-x looking better is like saying, my turkey sandwich is better than my shaving cream. Lol!

Alright! Hope you take the time to read over my first post and maybe skim over this one. Let me know if you run into any other issues and we'll be glad to help you out! And startup AGKII and try it out, you won't be disappointed by the results!
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baxslash
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Posted: 4th Oct 2016 09:00
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I agree a huge Login button would be much easier to spot but the profile button is very standard for login on a high percentage of sites. I do 100% fully agree that if you start at the AppGameKit site there is no clear way to access your account having gone for a look just now.

I think part of the issue is that a lot more emphasis has been put on Steam where you do get update notifications and there is a built-in forum etc. I think TGC should take a step back and make sure that wherever a new user arrives (such as the AppGameKit site) they can easily access their account.

I also agree about signing apps to some extent. I don't worry about it myself as most of the software I create is for internal business use but if I were putting software out there I would sign it as some people are wary of unsigned software. I am not but that's just me.

I do think the "egotistical response" comment is unwarranted.

I have heard many many people complain about TGC over the last 9 years... incredible how many of them keep coming back after "rage-quitting" over one thing or another. If you leave I hope you find what you are looking for (there are many alternatives) but if you stay I hope you'll give TGC and the community less of a hard time over stuff like this. You might find you like it here.
Using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
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Posted: 4th Oct 2016 16:17
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Hi All,

I received a final fair-well via Live Agent support this morning from Sosukodo. I offered to step back and let the community decide, and offer feedback to address his concerns, as I assumed his passion was for the welfare of the present and future AppGameKit community, but alas the reply was "I'm giving you logical, valuable input and you're crapping all over it."

In any event, I would still like to get some feedback from you guys. We are well aware that the AppGameKit website needs a major overhaul but web guys don't work for free and there's no room in the budget to do the work right now, so I am looking for anything that's a show stopper we can do to address the concern that started this thread. A big green download button that links to the TGC product page perhaps
Hogging the awesome since 1999
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pjsmith67
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Posted: 4th Oct 2016 18:39
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Unfortunately, you can't please everyone all the time, no matter what you do. The customer is NOT always right and sometimes you have to cut your losses. I think this is definitely one of those cases.

I do not have any issues with your website. AppGameKit is a great product for the price and I would rather you spend the money on developing it then on overhauling the website.

Phil
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SoftMotion3D
AGK Developer
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Posted: 4th Oct 2016 19:15
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I agree! The website is fine and i have no problems navigating it.

Im even really happy with agk,s current state. I cant believe how easy it is to use.

When it comes time... Im even ready to jump in and buy future tgc products to develop with.

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Jeff Miller
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Posted: 4th Oct 2016 21:54
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I think the website is fine. The only suggestion I would have would be to have a button to link from this page to the TGC home page, because some of us frequently arrive at this page directly from the Help menu of the AppGameKit IDE and thus the browser back button doesn't help.

I don't even know what "signing" applications means, so I'm not about to jump on the bandwagon with that criticism.

Regarding TGC being a small company with limited budgetary resources to devote to building a super-website, there are many continuing customers such as myself and the previous poster who have obviously known that for a over a decade. There are many of us, I am sure, who have been hoping for TGK to strike gold for just as long because we feel that TGK develops products for people like us. Sometimes we might express some frustration, but we keep coming back. Although sometimes our suggestions might seem a bit narrow, and focused on a personal need, I am sure that there are many of us who would put our oar in the water for TGC and offer broader and more professional suggestions for the good of the company if armed with a little more guidance and a bit more information on what TGC is up to at any given point.

Of course, tipping your cards to the forum membership as a whole runs a risk of tipping them to competitors, and so it is understandable why TGC might sometimes keep the lid on an ongoing project until it is ready to be unveiled. I remember many years ago Rick (I think) did a fairly comprehensive survey of members. He never published the results, from what I recall, other than to mention that most of us are male (which was conventional suspicion already). I would have been interested in the other data, for example the US market as a % of total. I have had a suspicion that it is a good chunk since first buying DBPro in a boxed set in a US computer chain store many years ago, and noticing the American spelling of "color" in several commands. (The big thick white instruction manual also made me think that British spelled "plane" as "plain"; it was a year or two later that I figured out that spelling is not your long suit. Incidentally, it's "farewell", not "fair-well".) And so, the first thing that went through my mind when I saw the EduGuru product with the Union Jack on it and statements concerning its compatibility with official UK curriculum was how many US customers of TGC could have helped TGC in various ways to get a contemporaneous US release. Then again, if I were working for TGC with survey data and/or current project information, I'm not sure I would release it to the forum at large. Tough issue.
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 5th Oct 2016 07:05 Edited at: 5th Oct 2016 07:11
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Never had any problems with TGC websites. I think the guy was "trolling" and wasting everyone's time (as for spelling of Game as Grame-well that tells me all ha). AppGameKit is a good product, so much so, I've started to use it again. There are more important things in life than to moan about a website issue. Insignificant. About spelling of "Fair-well", I think that was Lee's play on words
Professional Programmer, languages: SAS, C++, SQL, PL-SQL, DBPro, Purebasic, JavaScript, others
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Harlequin
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Posted: 5th Oct 2016 07:11
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I think the websites are pretty good by indie standards (I would regard TGC as indie).
The one suggestion is that the "login" icon on the top right is not clear that it is for login, and if you search the landing page "https://www.thegamecreators.com/" there is still no clear indication of where login is.

This is a pretty easy fix, change the icon to text (like the menu choices to the left of the icon) and add a link to the login page in the text at the bottom of the page (whereProduct,Company,Community is) so it is in two locations.


It\'s late, I\'m tired, out of coffee and now I\'m wet.
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Scraggle
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Posted: 5th Oct 2016 10:35 Edited at: 5th Oct 2016 10:39
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I've been with you for 13 years so that should tell you all you need to know about where I stand with your products. However, you are asking for criticisms so here are mine:

Website:
There has been a lot of talk about the login icon. Here's my thoughts: It is far from obvious! When you see it, it becomes obvious what it is but it's too small and hidden. The second concern with it is its second function. Once logged in, the icon changes to what looks like a messenger icon and clicking on that takes you to the dashboard where you can find the download section etc. That really isn't obvious. The login icon should change to a logout icon and the dashboard link should be separate and much more obvious, perhaps one of the links at the top of the page ("Forum Home", "Profile", "Messages" etc. stick it there).

AGK:
I've said this before but this looks like a good place to say it again. There are far too many incomplete command sets.
Facebook
Twitter
Game Center
2D Physics
3D Physics
... and many others
Incomplete command sets give the impression (to me at least) that they have been included simply so that TGC can claim that AppGameKit supports these features and therefore entice new customers - It does support them but some of them are so limited that they are not usable. The new customers that arrived because they expected to be able to use these features become rapidly disheartened and it gives TGC a bad name. The only saving grace you have is that there is a learning curve to be climbed before a new user realises that not everything they were expecting is available to them.

I love TGC and I love AppGameKit but I'd love it a lot more if things were completed before new things were partially introduced. I realise that new customers is what brings in the money but maybe you could try to keep your loyal customers happy?
AGK V2 user - Tier 1 (mostly)
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Carharttguy
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Posted: 5th Oct 2016 11:18
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The website structure is good as it it. I love the fact that Lee is investing time in AppGameKit and not in the website.
What I would like to see however, is more communication, this is the case with GameGuru, not so much with AppGameKit (community input, roadmaps,...)
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tboy
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Posted: 5th Oct 2016 20:59
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christ, is this really an issue?

Once you learn where everything is, it's simple! Stop moaning and use your brain!
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Zigi
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Posted: 5th Oct 2016 21:10 Edited at: 5th Oct 2016 21:14
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Maybe I'm the only one here but I need to agree with Sosukodo.

Look at it as someone know nothing about TGC just end up on the AppGameKit website.
If you press order on the AppGameKit website it takes you to the TGC website but it may not obvious at first.
So you buy the product, download it, install it but later you may want to download it again so you go to the AppGameKit website because this is the place you know, used to buy and download the product before but hey, there is no login option anywhere to login to your TGC account.

It might be obvious to people like us, long time TGC users but for someone new to the website and TGC products it can be confusing.
Actually, it is surprising there is no login or a "my orders" button on the AppGameKit website to take not so versed people directly to the TGC login page.

Regarding signing an application, it is again something that you need to take a look at as someone know nothing about TGC and TGC products.
Of course I do trust TGC as many of us and I don't care if the TGC apps are not signed, but it is an important security protocol that certainly not everybody going to ignore just because it is a TGC product.
From experience, if I don't know anything about the developer of the software I'm about to install and it is not signed, I would definitely consider it if I continue it installation or not and may run it in a sandbox or just throw it in the bin .
You just can't ask people to ignore it and say "hey I'm friendly, trust me"
Even not and especially not if you are a well known company with huge reputation in the industry and obviously not if you are a small, less known company or individual.
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Sosukodo
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Posted: 6th Oct 2016 22:18
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@Zigi: Thank you. That is exactly my point. I'm a brand-new customer giving (what should be thought of as) valuable input.

But, yeah, it totally makes sense that I put down a bill to troll.

I'm actually surprised that the web content isn't done by the developer. I maintain my own unmanaged linux VPS, write my own website front and backends AND maintain my software all myself. I just thought AppGameKit would be way more "put together" than this. That's my mistake and I apologize. I think I will just move on for now and work with an open source project - there are a million of them

Sayonara
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Mobiius
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Posted: 7th Oct 2016 08:58 Edited at: 7th Oct 2016 08:58
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Quote: "I'm actually surprised that the web content isn't done by the developer."

Really? Do the same people who write software for Microsoft also update the website or do they have a dedicated team for that?

The same is with TGC. They have a forumite, (TheNext I believe) who maintains their websites so that the core developers can concentrate on developing the apps that pay their bills!
Granted, things can be easier to find across all TGC websites, but is it really worth getting this angry about it? No-one buys a product based purely on their website, I think you're just on some kind of internet crusade!

Now Visit My Website
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Cybermind
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Posted: 7th Oct 2016 09:16
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I needed to download my AGK2 a while ago, and I could not find the downloads page, so I just started trying everything, until I found the little button in the top right corner that I had no idea what did, until I clicked it, and found my products Now I know where my products are, but I must admit that I don't find it obvious when you don't know where to look. Other than that button, I like the AppGameKit and TGC webpages And I do love the TGC products, I think I really got some bang for my bucks when I bought AGK2, I have spend many, many hours in AGK2, I use it almost every day, it is my main compiler for my projects at the moment
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BatVink
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Posted: 7th Oct 2016 09:59
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Priorities in my mind should be:

1. Develop the Product(s)
2. Encourage new users and make their journey as simple as possible. This benefits all of us.
3. Ensure product-related feedback has an obvious home that the users can post to as easily as possible. Developers shouldn't need to read 100 posts to find a reported bug. That is wasted dev time.
4. Fix the low-hanging fruit on the website. e.g a menu strip with meaningful prominent icons and good descriptive hover text fixes a lot of navigational issues very quickly.

As to the original complaint, I give it no credence because although there were some valid points, she did not engage in constructive discussion or accept the reasoning behind prioritising tasks.
Regarding software updates, Visual Studio doesn't tell me when there is an update, and I see it as perfectly valid. The development world is not the same as end-user software. You upgrade when you are ready, and it is part of your dev processes to check for updates, other changes and to engage with the community. The development platform is 20% of the process.
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baxslash
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Posted: 7th Oct 2016 11:07
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Some good points there BatVink
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CJB
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Posted: 7th Oct 2016 13:53
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I love TGC products, and I think the websites are fine. - Especially the forums:
Best
Community
Ever!


V2 T1 (Mostly)
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Phaelax
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Posted: 7th Oct 2016 13:56
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There have been numerous concerns over the website for awhile now that have been brought up on the forum. At some point one would need to admit that yes there is a potential design flaw. The current login is far from intuitive. The icon is tiny and looks nothing like any login icon I've seen. It looks like an arrow on top of an empty battery icon. I rarely login to the main site so I haven't really said much about it. I thought I remember the navigation to my purchases being difficult to find too, but I just tried and the dashboard it brings me to is about as simple as it gets. So maybe it changed since last time I used it. A bit of nitpicking, I think "products" should say "my products", as my first instinct tells me it would take me to tgc products to buy. And please do something about the DBP "activator" link. Either tell people what it really is, or just get rid of it so it stops breaking people's installation. The term activator is quite misleading to what it actually is, as one would expect it to activate a product and likely get rid of ads. Which it doesn't.


Quote: "The development world is not the same as end-user software. You upgrade when you are ready,"

Exactly. Imagine developing for an older platform with .NET 1 or something and suddenly you get an alert you've been upgraded to 4.0 have a nice day. Development products need updated manually so you always know what you're working with.

"I like offending people, because I think people who get offended should be offended." - Linus Torvalds
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Scraggle
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Location: Yorkshire
Posted: 7th Oct 2016 20:43 Edited at: 7th Oct 2016 20:43
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There is another issue with the forum that the post by Mobiius has brought to mind. We used to have the option to browse the forum without having to download/view peoples forum signature image.
Mostly they are innocuous and I don't even notice them but a 600x300 banner is not something you can 'not notice'.
Please bring back that feature!
AGK V2 user - Tier 1 (mostly)
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Phaelax
DBPro Master
21
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Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 8th Oct 2016 23:05
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I never knew we could hide signatures!

You can use the stylebot extension in chrome and hide the signature block.

"I like offending people, because I think people who get offended should be offended." - Linus Torvalds
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smallg
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18
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Joined: 8th Dec 2005
Location: steam
Posted: 9th Oct 2016 19:15
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personally i ordered AppGameKit from steam so never had the problem but i do think the downloads/my products section is quite hidden, especially from the AppGameKit website but even if/when you come here you see the buttons along the top and it's not obvious the title is also a link so i can definitely see where the OP is coming from.
the point is that you should just add a better/clearer link from the AppGameKit page to the TGC homepage and maybe also move/add a button at the top of forums that'll link to the account page, not sure why this is being debated, i would think TGC want people to know AppGameKit is their product after all (currently it's right at the bottom in the part nobody reads)
life\'s one big game
spec= 2.6ghz, 1gb ram, 512mb gpu, directx 9.0c, dbpro and classic
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Dybing
12
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Joined: 12th Sep 2011
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posted: 10th Oct 2016 08:05
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Meh, I find the OP is nitpicking - though he is right that the website(s) could be more intuitive, and certainly the Mac version should be signed. This do not detract anything from the main issue though, which is that AGK2 is a great multi-platform dev-tool that keeps getting better.

I use it for RAD of frontend across platforms, and have yet to sniff out any other tool or environment that lets me get up and running faster or easier. Though I am in the process of switching to react.js for more native 'standard-ui' frontends for some more business oriented projects (though I loathe HTML with a passion and find JS to be an open invitation to creating a bug ridden mess. Dynamic typing in a JIT language, who came up with that nonsense?!). For everything else, where one can throw native UI out the window and it won't matter for the user experience, AGK2 is my go-to tool.

The failure of the OP to give AGK2 a good try based on its merits but instead focusing on the non-essential stuff like the website is in my opinion a mistake. But (and here comes flame bait) I've always been of the opinion that Mac users by and large value bling over function, so perhaps not all that surprising...
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CumQuaT
AGK Master
13
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Joined: 28th Apr 2010
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posted: 10th Oct 2016 11:15
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I find the OP's attitude disconcerting. I don't have anything really poignant to contribute to this discussion, but I will say that I'm a huge fan of AppGameKit and TGC products in general, and while the development can be slow sometimes and the website design a little flawed, I am in total understanding that it's a very small company, driven by passion, and to be honest that model has always led to great products which have been designed with the end user in mind, rather than going down the "heartless corporate" road.

So, for what it's worth, to the whole TGC team, please don't be disheartened by one aggressive poster. You're all awesome.
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CumQuaT
AGK Master
13
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Joined: 28th Apr 2010
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posted: 10th Oct 2016 11:15
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Also, I'm currently using AGK2 as my full-time job on both mac and PC. So I can speak from experience when I say that it is quality software.
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Markus
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20
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Joined: 10th Apr 2004
Location: Germany
Posted: 10th Oct 2016 11:56 Edited at: 10th Oct 2016 12:00
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Quote: "Why aren't all AppGameKit Mac apps signed? I mean it's only $99 per year for an Apple Developer account."

if me download it from here i not need a signature. updates via apple store would be fine but not essential.
for myself i not want pay $99 each year. i like pay once, as google do at play store.

download is here, you can click at user icon and then producs.
https://www.thegamecreators.com/account/dashboard
AGK (Steam) V2.0.21 : Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit : AMD (16.6) Radeon R7 265 : Mac mini OS X 10.10 (Yosemite)
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Xaby
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
17
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Joined: 17th Apr 2007
Location: Berlin
Posted: 12th Oct 2016 18:20
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I got AGK2 on HumbleBundle (and before on TheGameCreators-Website)

So I can decide for PC and Mac, if I want to download it, or use Steam for easy updates.
I am running Windows 10.14394 64 Bit on PC and Mountain Lion on Mac.

The only thing I need a signed software would be, if I don't know the source. So I can trust steam, I can trust humblebundle and I can trust TheGameCreators.
TheGameCreators and HumbleBundle using https, so why would a certificate does any more security?

Or if you want, you can trust Steam on MacOS

Can't understand your thread. You headline is missleading. I thought you would be disapointed in whole, but you are only don't like the installation process I think.

Game Maker Studio (you can change the behavior) does not update automaticly, PureBasic does it not, and also Spriter, Spine and Flash Professional have the option to select for which version you want to create a file.
Like Word or Photoshop. Or Acrobat Professional.

It would be a nightmare, if the software would change there document format and would save automaticly in the newest version. I think it would worse with development software.

Also for Unreal Engine or Unity you can decide for which version you want to develope. Java JDK, SDK, ODK, Google Android etc. Developement software etc. all are without updater running in the background.
So what you are requesting and wanting from AGK2 is a little bit of a piece, no other software delivers. And if you want an updater, you could use steam. Also AGK2 does not get every day updates like nvidia drivers, so there is also no real need for that, I think.

I tried AGK2 on a Mac and it was a gread expirience. Worked out of the box with the same source code like on Windows. All I wanted.

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