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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Engine or Framework?

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Multicoder
AGK Developer
10
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th Oct 2014
Location: Germany
Posted: 29th Jan 2017 18:34
Hi there,

I wrote a "something" in AGK2 Tier 1 that handles remappable player controls, graphic and sound options, jumping, walking,... etc.
When talking about my "something" I usually don't know if I should say "my Engine" or "my Framework", because I don't really know "what" AppGameKit is for that matter.

Is AGK2 an Engine or a Framework?
And would my "something" coded in AGK2 be an Engine or a Framework?

I am really confused and hope you can enlighten me
Yes, I am aware that I sound like a caveman to native english speakers
CJB
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Feb 2004
Location: Essex, UK
Posted: 29th Jan 2017 19:07
I call AppGameKit a programming language. I cringe when people call it an engine.



Ortu
DBPro Master
17
Years of Service
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Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 29th Jan 2017 19:50
I would say agk is a language that provides a number of engine components.

Your something sounds like a framework or template that manages components and can be used and expanded on to create game engine.
http://games.joshkirklin.com/sulium

A single player RPG featuring a branching, player driven storyline of meaningful choices and multiple endings alongside challenging active combat and intelligent AI.
Multicoder
AGK Developer
10
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th Oct 2014
Location: Germany
Posted: 30th Jan 2017 01:07
Thank you both! So AppGameKit = programming language, my "something" = framework that may one day become an engine. That helps a lot
Yes, I am aware that I sound like a caveman to native english speakers
CumQuaT
AGK Master
14
Years of Service
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Joined: 28th Apr 2010
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posted: 30th Jan 2017 04:28
I cringe too, CJB... Different languages provide different levels of functionality. We don't call C++ an engine just because it handles printing to screen for us without having to write a special handler for it. AppGameKit just provides more functionality in the specific case of game making. Definitely a language in my book.
Mobiius
Valued Member
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 27th Feb 2003
Location: The Cold North
Posted: 30th Jan 2017 09:15
It's nice to see normal people referring to AppGameKit as a programming language and not a game engine.

I get so annoyed when people call it a game engine and compare it to AAA game engines like Unreal and Unity just because you can load an object in one command.
Alex_Peres
AGK Master
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th May 2009
Location: The Milky Way Galaxy
Posted: 30th Jan 2017 15:55
I cringe when people call AppGameKit "programming language"... If I use tier2, I'm programming in C++ (which is a programming language) taking AppGameKit functions, but not its language commands. So it is nonsense to call whole AppGameKit "programming language". AppGameKit it is not tier1 only.
Scraggle
Moderator
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 10th Jul 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Posted: 30th Jan 2017 22:45
I thought this thread was full of sensible people but there's always one that comes along and ruins it by talking nonsense.
AGK is a derivative of BASIC. A programmng language. The same way that BBC BASIC and Visual BASIC are programming languages. The C stands for Code. It's not an E for Engine.
You could use AppGameKit to make an engine in the same way that you could use any other language to make an engine.
AGK V2 user - Tier 1 (mostly)
damothegreat
User Banned
Posted: 30th Jan 2017 22:58 Edited at: 30th Jan 2017 23:00
I'm going to spoll this now..

an Engine is a system where you click and play style - like Game Guru, Click and Play, Contruct 2 - those are engines, where you don't have to type anything

If you have to type stuff to create anything - then this is called Programming (Framework)

So AppGameKit is a programming language but more of a basic nature
easter bunny
12
Years of Service
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Joined: 20th Nov 2012
Playing: Dota 2
Posted: 30th Jan 2017 23:00
AGK Tier 1 is most definitely a language. AppGameKit Tier 2 is a cross-platform library for C++. Just as C# is a language, but all of its commands come from .NET

nuff said

Audacia Games - Latest WIP - AUTOMAYTE 2.1, AppGameKit one click deploy to Android
130,000 installs with AppGameKit and counting
CumQuaT
AGK Master
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Apr 2010
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posted: 30th Jan 2017 23:29
Easter Bunny nailed it.

Now give me my chocolate eggs!
Van B
Moderator
22
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Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 31st Jan 2017 10:31
I think engines like Unreal and Unity confuse the whole thing, these often have a wide spread of skill levels - people can use the built in editors and scripting to do most things, but then advanced users can access low level features and shaders to make their projects more unique. I struggle to call things like Game Guru an engine, because you can't access low level features - I see them more as game creation systems when you don't have to step foot outside of its own IDE. I think the term engine has a fairly wide scope, it could mean the framework that handles everything but your game logic, or it could mean a system designed to make any sort of game... becomes difficult to make the distinction between a framework and an engine because it all depends on how you use it and your own abilities.

I think that AppGameKit can claim to be both a programming language (tier 1) and a framework (tier 2) - I can't call it an engine because it doesn't do a great deal for you really, you still need to make your own game environments and for the most part are left to your own devices. It's the way I prefer it, of course, otherwise I'd use Cryengine or something and get annoyed at everything because it eats up my time. Too many layers of abstraction are a distraction... silly bugs in editors, bad performance, having to work in the prescribed way... it eats up time and usually I'd much rather make editors for specific projects as I go. To me, using a standard engine like Cryengine or Unity just ends up in procrastination, worse than with languages and frameworks, because with something like AppGameKit, you know what is possible and how to do it (and if not, the community is always there) - in most other engines you're left relying on the standard toolset that they spent years perfecting to their own requirements without a whole lot of granularity, but with a fair dose of arrogance IMO.

Mostly, I use AppGameKit because its all within my comfort zone - I know what it can do and it makes my lofty project ideas actually possible, ideas that would take far too long in an engine like Unity. Solo developers need to be realistic, we can't see ourselves as entire teams of people... in my experience its better to keep everything simple and if your lucky enough to have someone who wants to help design levels for example, then they don't need to learn an IDE, just a specific editor for the project in hand. AppGameKit T1 lets me develop as organically as I know I shouldn't... using less familiar systems feels like someone is looking over my shoulder critisizing everything I do... hopefully that makes sense to someone
The code is dark and full of errors

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