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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Do you have VR Hardware?

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RickV
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Posted: 6th Mar 2017 14:23
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Hi,

Is anyone within the AppGameKit using VR hardware (Oculus Rift or Vive)?

Rick
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Mobiius
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Posted: 6th Mar 2017 14:39
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Does Google cardboard count?
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Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 6th Mar 2017 15:28
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I think what he is asking is has anyone written code to connect AppGameKit to the Oculus SDK for rendering.
This would only be possible in Tier 2. This is the only one I know attempting it.

https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/218779
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jlahtinen
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Posted: 6th Mar 2017 16:23
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Have Rift, but I'm on tier 1.

Interesting too see what more talented people can do with AppGameKit and VR.
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Van B
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Posted: 6th Mar 2017 17:00
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I have a Rift CV1 and touch controllers... and sore arms from too much Drunken Bar Fight.

I'd love to see VR head tracking support in AGK.
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CJB
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Posted: 6th Mar 2017 17:20
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I wanted to make a new gadget: Augmented Virtual Reality (AVR). I hacked my headset so the mobe-camera could see out, and I wanted to add a 2nd camera to give the user full 3d stereo image of their surrounding environment, and then using head-tracking, add the AVR imagery - Think poor-man's holo-lens. I got it working with 1 camera just by copying that image to both views and could overlap 3d imagery on top, but gave up on the idea when Paul confirmed AppGameKit cannot support 2 cameras simultaneously. I still think it would be a cool project though.
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=PRoF=
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Posted: 6th Mar 2017 18:48
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I have one of these...

It holds a phone, comes with a BT controller (Which I've not tried with AppGameKit yet) but doesn't have the 'button' usually associated with a google cardboard headset.
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Posted: 6th Mar 2017 19:18
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Would be nice if Rick would elaborate on the question.
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MadBit
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Posted: 7th Mar 2017 09:22
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I've a GearVR and a cheap Terratec VR1.
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RickV
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Posted: 7th Mar 2017 11:45
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Hi, I'm just trying to see via a quick straw pole how many of our users have the headsets (Vive and Oculus ones).

It seems there are not too many of you out there?

Rick
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Scraggle
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Posted: 7th Mar 2017 12:47
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Not yet but it's on my wish list.
If AppGameKit support it then I would push VR Headset to the top of my shopping list!
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CJB
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Posted: 7th Mar 2017 12:59
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Quote: "If AppGameKit support it then I would push VR Headset to the top of my shopping list!"
Same!
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Mobiius
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Posted: 7th Mar 2017 15:53
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Quote: "f AppGameKit support it then I would push VR Headset to the top of my shopping list!"

Me too, I'd get the rift myself so I can use it with Scorpio.
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Posted: 7th Mar 2017 17:57
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Oculus sales in the U.S. have declined and they have removed the product and demo from most of the stores.
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Ortu
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Posted: 8th Mar 2017 01:00 Edited at: 8th Mar 2017 13:36
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I think the problem is that the price of the oculus itself is already a bit high, add on the cost of a pc/gpu capable of working with it and the limited content available to actually use it with and the value just isn't there yet to justify the cost.

As more content develops through the phone headsets and Playstation VR, and if they can bring the total cost of hardware down to levels competitive/slightly above the consoles it will become a lot more popular.

I really see the next few years focusing more on the more accessible phone VR headset market than the higher end PC headsets
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Mobiius
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Posted: 8th Mar 2017 09:13
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Quote: "I think the problem is that the price of the oculus itself is already a bit high"

It's cheaper than the vive though.

That's the reason I haven't bought a commercial VR solution yet. The devices cost more than my race car, plus the gaming rigs (or ps4) required to run it also cost more than my race car. When the full end to end solution drops in price, then I'll get one.
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Markus
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Posted: 8th Mar 2017 12:42
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not yet, but i like Microsoft Hololens.
currently the pc devices are all too expensive.
2. VR api should independent from manufacturer, means just another hid device in os.
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janbo
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Posted: 8th Mar 2017 21:59
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I have a friend who does have the Vive, I could test my app's by him, if I don't decide to just buy it myself for that purpose.

Using AGKv2 Tier1
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hakimfullmetal
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Posted: 10th Mar 2017 11:20 Edited at: 10th Mar 2017 11:40
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Not Vive of Oculus, but I do have a PS VR...
I can connect it to PC and view the PC screen in VR cinematic mode using a program from Reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PSVR/comments/5at71n/ps_vr_on_pc_step_by_step_guidetutorial_crosspost/#bottom-comments
No positional tracking yet though... I suppose it will be possible if we can use generic camera.

PS VR is the cheapest out of all the 'decent' VR. About half the price of Oculus.
If AppGameKit can somehow use the above-mentioned program method to connect with PS VR on PC, think of how many would be attracted
Still had to solve positional tracking, so i guess it's too much work for AppGameKit dev...

Right now I imagine most people would use Unity to do VR stuff. Unity is not exactly cheap, and the license is a mess.
I nearly bought an Oculus/Vive because I want to make VR games, but then I realize I'll never had time to learn Unity, and I can't make it in AGK/DBPro, so I bought a PS VR instead for gaming.
It would be great if AppGameKit could provide a cheap and easy solution for VR-game-making with Vive/Oculus.

Right now I just trying out making somewhat-VR game for mobile in AGK.
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Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 10th Mar 2017 14:34 Edited at: 10th Mar 2017 14:37
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Quote: "Right now I just trying out making somewhat-VR game for mobile in AGK."


I am also investigating the possibility of making my current app VR for mobile.
It seems to get the VR to work properly with a phone it needs to have a gyroscope.
AGK can get the gyroscope sensor output so it will work for phones that have a gyroscope.
Unfortunately most phones do not have a gyro so that leaves out a lot of potential
customers. I am looking in to the possibility to use the accelerometer output to simulate
a gyro so it would also work on these phones. I think it will only be possible to do this in
Teir2, but would be better if it was available to Teir1 as well.

P.S.If you are not sure if your phone has a gyroscope try to install the Google cardboard app.
It will tell you your device is not compatible.
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DVader
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Posted: 11th Mar 2017 22:14 Edited at: 11th Mar 2017 22:16
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I've been searching around for a new PC and while I was at it saw this.

https://www.expertec.co.uk/oculus-rift-dk2.html

Seems a pretty good price (£154.94) compared to the £600 HTC price. Of course this could be for a reason. At that price I would be very tempted to get if AppGameKit supported it

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Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 12th Mar 2017 01:57 Edited at: 13th Mar 2017 23:13
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Looks like its a Chinese knock off.
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Jack
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Posted: 12th Mar 2017 13:32
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Hello pals,

right now I have impemented some parts of the oculus SDK into T2, but it's more hacky than solid.

The problem with common VR support is, that there are tons of VR hardware and SDK's around. Each SDK has their own hardware, drivers and even the rendering passes are
modified in order to get more speed. The oculus SDK implementation changes some major parts of the AppGameKit android project and can only be implemented to a certain point (by me).

I would love to see native support for some popular VR devices like Cardboard, HTC, Oculus.



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MikeMax
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Posted: 12th Mar 2017 22:57
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Oculus or Vive are too restrictive due to hardware requirements actually. I think it's too early to work on this (not enough potential players).

However, I own several VR mobile headsets (CardBoard compatible...) and also a daydream-ready phone (ZTE Axon 7) and i would like to see CardBoard and Daydream APIs ported to AppGameKit Tier 1. Actually sensors frequency detection have already been optimized by Paul (thanks a lot !!!) which is a very good thing for non-daydream devices (and i have very good results with this and fish-eye shaders to adapt the left and right view to headset's lens (no cardboard apis which holds this part normally)). Here is a great potential actually for VR.
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hakimfullmetal
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Posted: 12th Mar 2017 23:25
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I agree 100% with MikeMax
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 12th Mar 2017 23:51
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Quote: "I've been searching around for a new PC and while I was at it saw this.
https://www.expertec.co.uk/oculus-rift-dk2.html
Seems a pretty good price (£154.94) compared to the £600 HTC price. Of course this could be for a reason. At that price I would be very tempted to get if AppGameKit supported it"


DVader,
That is an Oculus Rift DK2 (Development Kit 2), which is not the consumer release. I have one of those (and a consumer Vive). The DK2 is good, but only runs at 60fps instead of 90fps and is lower resolution than the consumer version. The main reason I'd suggest you steer clear of it though is that Oculus has not promised any continued support of it. So, you may find sometime in the near future that it doesn't even work anymore. I'd highly suggest saving for the consumer version of the Rift or Vive.

Ron
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 13th Mar 2017 15:20 Edited at: 13th Mar 2017 15:21
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The only headsets I have seen IRL belongs to a handful of companies. There really aren't that many headsets out there and most people don't have the hardware to power them. The market is still super small and it doesn't look like it's going to start growing any time soon. Even PS VR is struggling at the moment. Valve says VR might fail. Some experts say that MR (Mixed Reality) will be the big thing.
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 13th Mar 2017 15:56
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The market is small for a couple reasons. First, it is expensive. Second, there aren't many real games out there right now that properly support it. Big developers don't want to invest a big-game budget into a market that can't support the development costs, so they aren't. People aren't tempted to spend the money on VR tech because it doesn't have much more than tech demos available at this point. I think another problem is that phone VR somewhat muted the excitement for real VR tech. Phone VR is cool, but it comes nowhere even close to the Vive or Rift. People see phone VR though and assume that they've experienced real VR.
What all this really means is that the VR market is wide-open for indie developers, maybe unlike anything else recently. If you make a reasonable game in VR that supports the Vive or Rift, there is a very enthusiastic market that will buy it, and you aren't really competing with big developers. I don't think VR will fail. Real VR hardware is just too good. It is pushing graphics card capabilities and it won't be too long before you can use the Vive or Rift on a standard gaming laptop. The cost of the hardware will probably start to fall too. As those things happen, the market will grow as long as there continues to be decent experiences released. I think it is an awesome opportunity for indie developers!

Ron
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Van B
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Posted: 14th Mar 2017 19:07
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It's like that Mac game market a few years ago... where people would actually make decent money making Mac games, just because the limited market are actually crying out for games.

Let's be completely honest here, the Android market is completely saturated, the Apple market is completely saturated, the PC market is completely saturated - we will and do, find it very difficult to compete in these markets. It's not even a financial thing, even giving games away for free can be difficult.
There is nothing better than a hungry market, and the VR market is HUNGEEERRREEEEEEE - if there are only 100,000 VR gamers out there, and 100,000,000 standard gamers, then I'd rather make stuff for the gamers that will pay attention. Out of those 100 million gamers, I'd be lucky if a fraction of a percent download my game for free, but out of the 100,000 VR gamers, hungry for new games, well even 1% would be better than nothing. In real terms, I put a free game on Google Play and Amazon, probably got less than 30 downloads in a year, pretty bloody horrible for a free game... at that point, with what... over a billion Android devices, my uptake is about 0.000003% - IMO there is no point in pandering to a market that doesn't want to pay and already has every game it could ever need. I had more recognition doing 2 ZX Spectrum demake games than anything I've released on iOS or Android.

I have one almost complete AppGameKit project that I think has reasonable potential, but right now there is no point in releasing it. I also have a new AppGameKit project that could turn out really cool... maybe by the time that's done, the market will have improved. But my main focus right now is on VR games in UE4. If AppGameKit was to have decent headset support, well it might just be a decent market for indies like us.
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FranzVR
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Posted: 25th May 2017 18:18
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Got Oculus Rift, it's great. Regular gaming now seems flat by comparison.

More people will do it when:
1. The Price comes down ( it will, and is )
2. People are able to actually TRY it, and experience the goodness -
a flat screen, or even G.Cardboard does not do it justice at all.

Best to be ready when VR gaming becomes popular!
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nz0
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Posted: 27th May 2017 03:10
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Have DK2 and recently dusted it down and found out how rank the support is for it now from Occulus.
I would love to have a play with the latest AppGameKit plugin, but I'm not going to pay for it after gold backing the kickstart.

@VanB I totally hear you. I develop games for a niche market that appreciate the effort I put in and has a healthy global following. It keeps me motivated.
I long since abandoned the idea that I could make a game that appealed to the masses - I make games I like and it so happens a few other people like them as well.

Sod the zeitgeist

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Alien Menace
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Posted: 30th May 2017 23:34
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I bought a Rift but AppGameKit did not support it at the time so back to the store it went.
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CumQuaT
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Posted: 31st May 2017 11:00
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I this post is from ages ago, Rick, but the Fluffy Knuckleduster team has just acquired an HTC Vive if you still need testers. You've got my details!
Help out a fellow dev! Download and rate my games! They're free!

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