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Geek Culture / Bitcoin

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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 29th Mar 2017 15:51 Edited at: 29th Mar 2017 15:55
Okay, so I do not watch this forum enough, and I missed the posts back in 2013 and 2014 that were made discussing the Bitcoin.
Back then you could buy in cheap, but now the price has skyrocketed thanks to the acceptance of this digital currency by various governments.
Kicking myself in the butt for not finding out about it sooner, but as it stands moving forward, I see a few issues about the Bitcoin.

1) The finite number of coins will continue to cause inflation.

2) The ever growing popularity of Bitcoins is creating strain on the blockchain as the number of transactions grow.
Small systems could mine back in the day, but now you need a super computer to do the calculations required to mine/process the blockchain.

3) Even though the currency is carried out to 8 digits past the decimal, it is not practical to deal in the smallest quantities because of the fees charged by the companies running the computers that process the payments for the blockchain.

I am new to the blockchain technology, so I have a lot to learn, but I already have a few workarounds for a couple of these problems.
I am currently working on a Bitcoin exchange that will specialize in trading the smallest amounts of Bitcoins (the Satoshi = 0.00000001) without each transaction being applied to the Bitcoin blockchain or incurring any third party fees.

If anyone here got in on bitcoins early on and want to invest in this venture, or if you have been wrapping your head around the technology and want to contribute your knowledge, then let me know.
I DO NOT want any Bitcoins to be transferred from any of you guys, so I am NOT trying to scam anyone here. (plenty of profits to be had from bitcoin fluctuation)
The plan is to be 'bonded' by a Bitcoin holder, so that your Bitcoins as a partner are held by you as a guarantee so that our system will be solvent. (you do not have divulge your Bitcoin key to anyone unless it fails)
I am developing a system (seemingly complex but actually simple like some of my old workarounds) that will ensure profits regardless of the rise or fall of Bitcoin prices, but the system is not transaction fee dependent.

Experience...
I was selling in game items and game coins on eBay for real cash before I ever discovered these forums, so I have a long history of interest in digital currencies.
I developed a cash system for FPSC when it was thought to be impossible based on its available command set for math at the time, so I can do workarounds for math limitations..
I have also developed a program in DarkBasic classic that can perform math beyond the 8 digit limitations of limited processors (validating prime numbers to thousands of digits and beyond).

Conclusion...
I would have gotten in on Bitcoins early on had I known about them, but it is still not too late especially considering that Bitcoin has weathered the storm of public/establishment acceptance.
If anyone here at the TG forums is interested in joining this venture, then please let me know.

WWW.SATOSHI.GOLD

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
TheComet
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Posted: 29th Mar 2017 16:29 Edited at: 29th Mar 2017 16:32
Quote: "1) The finite number of coins will continue to cause inflation"


No, the finite number of coins prevents inflation. That's the whole point, you can't just produce coins out of thin air (as you can with US dollars, which does cause inflation).

Quote: "2) The ever growing popularity of Bitcoins is creating strain on the blockchain as the number of transactions grow.
Small systems could mine back in the day, but now you need a super computer to do the calculations required to mine/process the blockchain."


You don't need a beefy computer to complete transactions. Those are very simple.

Mining bitcoins requires a lot of computing power these days because the chance of finding an unused hash has decreased to the point where it's not worth investing the electrical energy into the computer required to find it.

The blockchain grows in size whenever a transaction is made. Last time I checked (which was a year ago) the blockchain was about 45 GB in size. Once you download it you can incrementally update it, which doesn't require much time if you do this regularly.

Quote: "I am currently working on a Bitcoin exchange that will specialize in trading the smallest amounts of Bitcoins (the Satoshi = 0.00000001) without each transaction being applied to the Bitcoin blockchain or incurring any third party fees."


The way the algorithm works makes this idea impossible. You cannot transfer money without making changes to the blockchain. You may be able to set up a system where you can transfer "promises" that you will complete the transaction at some future point. I guess you'd be collecting these "promises" and then executing all of the transactions at a later date at once, or something along those lines.

In essence, you'd be trading debt.

That sounds extremely similar to the current system we have (in that the money we pass around represents debt), except that in the case of bitcoin you can easily circumvent the "promise" of paying that fraction because you technically still own the money. There's no way to enforce a transaction if it isn't made.

If that makes any sense.
"Jeb Bush is a big fat mistake" -- Donald Trump
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 29th Mar 2017 17:35 Edited at: 29th Mar 2017 17:59
1) inflation --
Quote: "
noun
1.
Economics. a persistent, substantial rise in the general level of prices related to an increase in the volume of money and resulting in the loss of value of currency (opposed to deflation).
2.
the act of inflating. (see below)
3.
the state of being inflated.


verb (used with object), inflated, inflating.
1.
to distend; swell or puff out; dilate:
The king cobra inflates its hood.
2.
to cause to expand or distend with air or gas:
to inflate a balloon.
3.
to puff up with pride, satisfaction, etc.
4.
to elate.
5.
Economics. to expand (money, prices, an economy, etc.) unduly in amount, value, or size; affect with inflation.

"


Okay, maybe I was using the word loosely, but the price of the bitcoin will continue to inflate or rise in price, which is what I meant.
I was referring to the price of Bitcoins inflating not the economy, so I stand corrected.

The price will continue to rise because there is no way to split (like stocks), or generate new coins once the limit is reached.
Without printing new currency, like paper currency, the value will rise because of scarcity, as you point out.

With a growing population on this planet, any scarce resource will go up in value as the ratio to people changes increasing the scarcity.
What will happen with Bitcoins is that the value will eventually rise until only the wealthiest of people will be able to afford them.
That is the issue I am trying to address now, because you need at least $1,000 to open an account at the most popular/trusted exchanges.
What was started as a currency for everyone will quickly become a currency for only the elite because of this 'design flaw'.
The only obvious solution to the current model in the future will be to carry out the number behind the decimal point in order to accommodate smaller transactions. ("digital split")

2) You may be right, but from what I have read on some of the bitcoin forums there is a tendency for those processors to batch the bigger transactions first because their gain is higher on a percentage based fee.
The little transaction take days to complete, whereas larger transactions happen in minutes or hours.
I guess I wasn't clear enough on #2, because the issue is more in the processing prejudice more than the processors being used.
Nonetheless, as the computations become more difficult, the minimum # of Satoshis is growing with each build, increasing the need to look ahead to the growing issue for small transactions.
I am only going on the information I have gathered so far, so I am not disagreeing with you, only sharing the info.

http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/17830/whats-the-minimum-transaction-with-bitcoin

3) lol I love it when people say it is impossible to do something. I have heard that so many times before I have done things.

Yes, transactions of bitcoins have to be added to the bitcoin blockchain.
However, not all transactions have to be added as they happen.
In an exchange the real goods are traded virtually, held physically somewhere in escrow, and only transferred in real life during buy-ins or cash-outs.
There is not need to pay merchant fees with every trade of something digital, only on the buy-ins cash-outs for physical goods or currencies.
Just like stock exchanges, you are not trading debt because the goods are being held securely in escrow. (cold storage - partners bond/guarantee)
Only buy-ins or cash-outs would need to incur merchant fees, which would give people incentive not to buy-in or cash-out as often.
Doing the Bitcoin transactions less frequently will reduce the use of the bitcoin blockchain and thus reduce the strain on that system.
This offsets the fees, making a Satoshi trader's small profits grow faster.
Their account holds two currencies...Bitcoins/Satoshis and the paper currency of their choice.
They can keep either in the escrow as long as they like to buy or sell Satoshis as they wish, only paying a fee when transferring funds in or out of the system.
I hope that makes sense.

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
TheComet
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Posted: 29th Mar 2017 18:22 Edited at: 29th Mar 2017 18:34
I think you've fundamentally misunderstood how this works.

There is an upper limit to how much 1 bitcoin will cost, just like with every other limited resource in existence.

The price for gold hasn't risen to a ridiculous level where only rich people can afford it. I, a poor student, could go and buy a diamond right now in town for less than 100$ if I felt so inclined.

It's not the absolute number of finite bitcoins that determines its price, it also depends on its circulation. The same coins can be re-used over and over again. It's not like you have to mine them in order to spend them.

The fact remains that if you don't add your transaction to the blockchain then the coins still belong to you. If I don't give you my piece of gold right now, it's still mine.

By implementing this "IOU" system you're suggesting you'd be defeating the whole purpose of what bitcoins are all about. You'd be re-introducing the corrupted banking system used throughout the world today on top of bitcoin, just like we did with gold.

Bitcoins are about having a decentralised self regulating currency, very similar to how gold was first used hundreds of years ago. You don't have to trust any single entity for maintaining/abusing the price of the currency.
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BatVink
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Posted: 29th Mar 2017 19:12
Bitcoin has become a victim of its own success, and could potentially collapse.
The problem is a technical one. The number of transactions per second is going up, and the time to technically record a transaction is also going up. At the same time, the reward for mining is decreasing as the complexity rises. So...

* The increase in data mining centres is slowing
* The number of transactions is increasing
* The processing time per transaction is increasing

When these meet a crisis point, Bitcoin will become unstable for the consumer (will you wait the same time as a cheque to clear, for your Bitcoin to be accepted?) and unprofitable for the processors.

The big data miners are already in the mountains with their own power plants, they can't make it any more efficient unless they come up with a software solution.
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TheComet
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Posted: 29th Mar 2017 19:26
You don't have to mine coins any more, the currency works fine without mining.

As for the technical limitations, if Moore's law holds then computation power is growing faster (exponential function) than the blockchain, which more or less grows linearly (it's a direct function of how many humans are using it).

In a decade from now, downloading 50 GB will be nothing.
"Jeb Bush is a big fat mistake" -- Donald Trump
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 29th Mar 2017 20:43 Edited at: 29th Mar 2017 20:45
Quote: "I think you've fundamentally misunderstood how this works.

There is an upper limit to how much 1 bitcoin will cost, just like with every other limited resource in existence.

The price for gold hasn't risen to a ridiculous level where only rich people can afford it. I, a poor student, could go and buy a diamond right now in town for less than 100$ if I felt so inclined.

It's not the absolute number of finite bitcoins that determines its price, it also depends on its circulation. The same coins can be re-used over and over again. It's not like you have to mine them in order to spend them.

The fact remains that if you don't add your transaction to the blockchain then the coins still belong to you. If I don't give you my piece of gold right now, it's still mine.

By implementing this "IOU" system you're suggesting you'd be defeating the whole purpose of what bitcoins are all about. You'd be re-introducing the corrupted banking system used throughout the world today on top of bitcoin, just like we did with gold.

Bitcoins are about having a decentralised self regulating currency, very similar to how gold was first used hundreds of years ago. You don't have to trust any single entity for maintaining/abusing the price of the currency."


I understand how it works better than you think I do.

Whether something is finite or not has no power to limit its worth.
Something is worth what a person is willing to pay.
There are many famous Paintings in the world that are one of a kind, but they all bring different prices when auctioned, and are only limited to what a person buying it can pay.
There will always be people who will pay more or less than other people, so it will never level/cap out.

The price of gold is not stable and they are mining more of it every day, so it is far from reaching it total use of its finite number.
The bitcoins will be tapped out long before gold.

It is obvious that the processing times are surpassing the innovations of technology, because the miners of the past are not mining today.
The profits they gain do not compensate them for the cost of the hardware, because by the time they get it then system is too slow. (Watch "The Rise and Rise of Bitcoin")

Quote: "Bitcoin has become a victim of its own success, and could potentially collapse.
The problem is a technical one. The number of transactions per second is going up, and the time to technically record a transaction is also going up. At the same time, the reward for mining is decreasing as the complexity rises. So...

* The increase in data mining centres is slowing
* The number of transactions is increasing
* The processing time per transaction is increasing

When these meet a crisis point, Bitcoin will become unstable for the consumer (will you wait the same time as a cheque to clear, for your Bitcoin to be accepted?) and unprofitable for the processors.

The big data miners are already in the mountains with their own power plants, they can't make it any more efficient unless they come up with a software solution."

Exactly, and I think you understand better what I am trying to communicate.
Unless the blockchain evolves into a new system, it will become unstable.

What I am talking about is not on IOUs because the BUYs with Cash are based on the SELLs with cash.
The buy and sell orders regulate the price, and the funds in Cash and Bitcoin are held in escrow while trading.
A trader does not need to buy-in or cash-out every transaction like the blockchain is designed.
Escrows can batch these transactions to reduce the load on the block chain.
As long as the Bitcoin is there in Cold Storage to secure the Cash in escrow, then it is trading real and digital currency, not IOUs.

I am not here to debate economics or blockchains or bitcoins.
I simply see what I think are flaws in Bitcoins existing model based on the information I have gathered so far from Bitcoin's site and its links, and I want to work on a system to address them.
I was hoping to gather a few geeks here to help if they wanted, but if you are not interested, or think I am crazy or stupid, then that is okay.

Thank you for your input.

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
Phaelax
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Posted: 31st Mar 2017 12:58
It's not really cost effective to mine coins anymore. You can't compete against the data farms out there with specialized equipment. And setting up your own specialized computer would cost more for the parts and electricity used than what you'd earn back in mining. Oh, and don't try to get around it by installing miners on company servers, people get fired for that. (read several cases of it in the news)

"I like offending people, because I think people who get offended should be offended." - Linus Torvalds
Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 31st Mar 2017 17:56
Thanks for the good advice Phaelax,

I do not intend on data mining.
Those days are long gone.

I could use your server sided scripting expertise though if you feel like taking the time to tackle a small PHP script.
It is a couple of simple functions, but I am worried that my PHP skills are not good enough to make it as secure as it needs to be.
Let me know if you are up to it, and I'll send you an email with the details so you can give me an estimate on cost.

Thanks again

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
BatVink
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Posted: 31st Mar 2017 18:49
Quote: "You don't have to mine coins any more, the currency works fine without mining."

Mining is the process of validating transactions. every time a transaction is validated, a new slither of Bitcoin is mined.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 31st Mar 2017 21:57
The purpose of my system is to accommodate small transactions of Satoshi trading without adding to the blockchain, and I pretty much have it covered except the script I mentioned to Phaelax above.
I may have to write that script myself too, if no one has time to help me, but I am getting used to the indie approach, so it is all good if I have to crawl learning PHP to get it done.

I was going to start with 10,000,000,000 Satoshi, which is the equivalent of 100 Bitcoins for the cold storage.
Now, I will be starting with much more than that, and I am really excited about this project.

I guess this thread can get locked or deleted if a mod thinks it is useless now.

Thanks for the input guys!

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
BatVink
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Posted: 31st Mar 2017 22:54
It's not a useless thread. It sounds like an interesting approach to the growing problem.
One thing to bear in mind is that your concept might be considered as adding governance to the system (managing other people's transactions). Therefore you may be subject to financial regulation.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 1st Apr 2017 02:34 Edited at: 1st Apr 2017 04:06
Quote: "It's not a useless thread. It sounds like an interesting approach to the growing problem.
One thing to bear in mind is that your concept might be considered as adding governance to the system (managing other people's transactions). Therefore you may be subject to financial regulation."


Great point, and I am sure that some of the folks who represent the powers that be would think that at first too.
However, that would be like calling another site where people gather as management.
Facebook managing conversations?...Dating site managing relationships?... they just provide a place for people to meet, not manage them.
So, I would have to argue that one since the user is in full control of deciding when,how,why, etc. their digital/real currency is being traded.
They are managing their own trading transactions, and I do not even charge a fee during trading.
I am simply selling a fixed number of units at the initial offering when users Buy-In to the system.
Then, I am holding them in cold storage in good faith until they sell them to another user, and then I hold them in cold storage for the buyer.
They are trading them among themselves in the system, deciding their own BUY/SELL orders, so I am not managing any transaction other than my own.
The system starts with a fixed number of "Satoshi Gold", and the initial offering sells them to create a fixed amount of cash in the system.
Once all Satoshi is sold, then the trading floor is launched, and the users then BUY-IN at whatever is the Satoshi sell orders dictate.
The cash in is always the right amount to cover the assets of the sellers for when they decide to cash out.
They are managing the transactions, while I hold the currencies in Cold Storage (Digital) and transferred in traditional insured Banks (Cash).
Both the Cash and the Satoshi Gold are very secure from theft being held offline, and the trading data can be Balanced for verification and backed up regularly for restores.
With the initial BUY-IN as $20, $50, or $100, even the most modest of budgets will be able to participate.

They may say holding the money is being like a bank, but is a bartender a lender when he lets people run a tab?...or is a returnable deposit fee (for anything) a bank account?
Pooling the money into one account has same benefit as the digital cold storage... it prevents merchant fees from being charged on every single transaction and it reduces the burden on the financial system.
I am selling Satoshi Gold for others to trade as they see fit, and they are trusting me to hold it securely until they sell it because they have no intention of keeping it permanently.
If I lose my appeal, then I guess I will have to form a Credit Union or something to comply, but I will still hold firm that this system is not a bank.

Yes this is of course involving Banks and centralization, but some small investors might not mind that risk considering the other options.
The blockchain would be much better off in the future as the trading of smaller fractions will become necessary and add a continual strain on it under its current system of managing each and every transaction.
The wallets are becoming used more as more retailers/services accept the Bitcoins as payments, so those transactions are burden enough without these back and forth trades being added to the blockchain.

Here is a peek at the front page being viewed in a 320x480 mobile window.
The shopping cart is for the initial offering, then replaced with the BUY - SELL quotes when trading starts.
Will probably put the CASH and SATOSHI account balances at the top, or the Quotes at top with balances in middle... (back and forth on functions and looks)


Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1

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BatVink
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Posted: 1st Apr 2017 09:01
Don't get me wrong, I am not against your idea, just trying to see some of the challenges.
I don't think you could do this in the UK without being registered as a financial institution. As soon as you hold somebody else's money without that money paying for a specific service then you are bound by the financial regulatory system. For example, if you buy a TV over 12 months rather than buying it outright, the company that "loans" it to you is classed as a finance company, not a retail company. This is because they are taking your cash without you owning the goods until fully paid for. I think this is a similar scenario. People are giving you money without a specific purpose until it is spent.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 1st Apr 2017 14:23 Edited at: 1st Apr 2017 17:56
I understand you are not against me and are trying to help, and I appreciate it.
I am just replying in a way as if I were arguing my case against those Powers That Be (PTB).

They are paying fully for their Satoshi Gold, and they own it.
I am holding it for safe keeping until they sell it to someone else, at which time they can cash out to receive their funds or leave their cash in the system to buy more Satoshi at a later date if/when the price falls.
Think of this as the same function as a Bitcoin Wallet, except it is not for day to day purchases at retailers like other wallets.
This Satoshi Gold wallet is exclusively for trading Satoshi.Gold within our system.
Each transaction is a user buying or selling (with full ownership) the Satoshi Gold, they are just keeping it in safe storage in the system.
We are acting as a database, since the currency held is digital and not physical, so we are no more a bank than your web hosting server for your cloud.
Yes, we are holding the "real cash" too, but in digital form, no paper dollar is ever transferred to or from any party, and it is in traditional regulated banks.
We are not managing their funds like banks do when they takes risks making loans, and we do not charge maintenance or other fees for holding it in the system.
Our only fee is a flat 5% deposit fee when someone creates a new account, or reloads cash into an existing one, just to cover the cost of running the site.
That fee is better for our users than having to pay monthly or annual fees for using our database service like a web host would charge.

You are right though, they probably will come after us wanting to enforce regulations on us in an attempt to tax us to death, but we will set up as a non-profit church if need be.

I am not sure about the UK laws, but I will be operating in the USA, unless they come down on us and force us to set up in another country.
Selling a digital currency is just like selling any other digital item, and if not, then there will be a lot of gaming companies that will be forced to set up as financial institutions because they are selling games with digital currencies and holding those currency balances in their databases on their website.

I think the big stink with Governments wanting to enforce these regulations on Bitcoin operations is because of the anonymity that bitcoin offers, and the use of it in illegal activities like money laundering because they have a hard time tracking the users.

Satoshi.Gold will be receiving and sending its Payments through PayPal, so members will need a PayPal account to participate.
Since, PayPal is a regulated financial institution that requires identity disclosure, the PTB shouldn't have a problem with us.
We are not laundering illegal monies or supporting any anonymous users who might be.
We like the PayPal idea so we know a users funds will be sent only to them via their PayPal email on record, but it does have these other advantages as well.
It comes at a cost though, which is roughly 3+% coming out of our 5% fee when we receive funds, so it is evident that we are making every effort to comply with financial regulations.

I am doing a pre-launch offering of the Satoshi Gold before the trading platform is launched, and our system will be fully explained at the website.
So technically, I will only be selling our own stash of Satoshi Gold that we are holding in cold storage. (just like selling an eBook people open to read instead of downloading)
If they want to come down on us with volumes of red tape, then they will have plenty of time to say so before we launch the trading platform.
If so, then I may have to revise my system to be a total workaround on their restrictions, but I am hoping they can understand our system's website is a legitimate financial social network, and not a financial institution.

Edit
Researching more about the financial regulations, I guess it would be safe to say that I am acting as a Fiduciary once the cold storage reserve has been sold and the trading platform is launched.
I guess the Satoshi Gold model that I have in mind is best described by this relationship ...
Quote: "The most common circumstance where a fiduciary duty will arise is between a trustee, whether real or juristic, and a beneficiary. The trustee to whom property is legally committed is the legal—i.e., common law—owner of all such property. The beneficiary, at law, has no legal title to the trust; however, the trustee is bound by equity to suppress their own interests and administer the property only for the benefit of the beneficiary. In this way, the beneficiary obtains the use of property without being its technical owner."

Looking at it that way, it is more like the user is buying and selling a beneficiary right to the quantity of Satoshi Gold, rather than the gold itself.
This is not exactly what I had in mind, but it is close enough to work within regulation, since I should only need their consent to be the trustee of their Satoshi Gold. (TOS)

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Jeku
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Posted: 1st Apr 2017 20:27
I got in and bought a bunch of them for around $100 back in 2013, and have just been hoarding them ever since. As long as I can get my original $100 out of them, I'm going to ride this wave. Currently it's around $1050USD each and it's interesting seeing what will happen. I've also been buying gold and silver bullion because it's a lot easier to trade those around the world in times of crisis. I'm keeping almost nothing in my personal bank accounts these days.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 1st Apr 2017 22:28 Edited at: 1st Apr 2017 22:46
Quote: "I got in and bought a bunch of them for around $100 back in 2013, and have just been hoarding them ever since. As long as I can get my original $100 out of them, I'm going to ride this wave. Currently it's around $1050USD each and it's interesting seeing what will happen. I've also been buying gold and silver bullion because it's a lot easier to trade those around the world in times of crisis. I'm keeping almost nothing in my personal bank accounts these days."

You lucky rascal!
The hoarders who got in near the beginning are rich today.
Hang on to them for the long haul my friendly forum friend.
Although I would have expected you to already have cashed in enough to get back your initial investment having gotten in back then.
Gold and silver are far sounder than paper money at any time too, so smart move there as well.
At this point, I would have cashed in 20% to double my initial investment, and then bought silver or gold with that before sitting it out.
The Bitcoin will probably encounter more fluctuation though, so it is probably the best way to go on a long haul.

I have been going to the government websites digging into the regulations...
Quote: "
Administrators and Exchangers of Virtual Currency

FinCEN's regulations define currency as "the coin and paper money of the United States or of any other country that is designated as legal tender; and that circulates; and is customarily used and accepted as a medium of exchange in the country of issuance." In contrast, "virtual" currency is a medium of exchange that operates like a currency in some environments, but does not have legal tender status in any jurisdiction. Virtual currency must be converted into U.S. dollars through the services of an administrator or exchanger prior to deposit into the banking system. An administrator or exchanger of virtual currency is an MSB under FinCEN's regulations, specifically, a money transmitter, unless a limitation to or exemption from the definition applies to the person. BSA requirements and supervisory expectations for providing banking services to administrators or exchangers of virtual currencies are the same as money transmitters. "


There seems to be some exemptions to the rules for small time operators limiting the daily transactions.
That would not be difficult for us to fit into, since it is being set up for small time trading with deposits of only $20, $50, or $100.
I was already planning to require a conversion to $ USD before the buy in, which seems to be a requirement too, so that is no biggie.
I fully support the anti-money laundering and anti-terrorist measures taken by the establishment, so full compliance is not the bad thing people make it out to be.
I am working on a terms of service agreement now that fully incorporates regulation compliance, even though I may be able to start operations on an exemption from the definition.

When researching the Bitcoin exchanges at their site, there's only two (2) listed in the US, so there doesn't seem to be any competition for a small operation catering to small transactions.

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
Phaelax
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Posted: 1st Apr 2017 23:02
Conjured , I sent you a pm

"I like offending people, because I think people who get offended should be offended." - Linus Torvalds
BatVink
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2017 07:35
Quote: "but does not have legal tender status in any jurisdiction"


That is probably quite important. If it is not legal tender then it is just a commodity, and hopefully free of financial regualtion, even in the UK.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2017 14:35 Edited at: 2nd Apr 2017 14:42
Quote: "Conjured , I sent you a pm"

Thanks man, and I sent you a reply.

Quote: "That is probably quite important. If it is not legal tender then it is just a commodity, and hopefully free of financial regualtion, even in the UK."


Let's hope so, and we will soon know once I get the site ready to launch, because I am not backing down from any challenge on this one.
Just come feed my dogs and cats for me if they lock me up.

I am going to limit the trading amounts to fit into the exemption just in case, because it is the real cash being transferred that they will get bent about.
Using PayPal though has them as the one actually transferring the funds, so they will be the MSB, not us.

I am pretty sure that I have the bases covered, and I spent 9 hours yesterday working on a Terms Of Service.
I started with a nice lengthy one at another site, then edited it to suit my needs, and emailed them asking for permission to modify theirs for my site.
They will probably say no, and force me to re-word the entire thing, but legal clauses in TOS's are close to each other when saying the same thing, so ...

Even though I have the 'Satoshi Gold' in cold storage, our $tart up funds are low for this project.
So, I will be starting this thing on a shoe string and processing some things manually to at the beginning.
My ventures usually never turn out big time though, so I doubt it will take off too fast and bombard me with work.

Can't wait to hear all the negative crap from the haters, but as I am getting older that seems to roll off better instead of splatting.
Expecting the regulators to come knocking at some point though even when I comply, because when the crap hits the fan I am usually the one standing closest to it.

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
Jeku
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Posted: 4th Apr 2017 18:23
Japan has just recognized Bitcoin as legal tender, which is why the price is shooting up again. So awesome It's fun to speculate.
Senior Software Engineer - RotoGrinders
Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 5th Apr 2017 04:57 Edited at: 5th Apr 2017 05:04
Quote: "Japan has just recognized Bitcoin as legal tender, which is why the price is shooting up again. So awesome It's fun to speculate. "

Interesting about Japan, and yes, speculation can be fun.
I noticed the priced of the bitcoin jumped 10-12% in the last few days, but didn't know why. (I think it is getting a lot of attention in China too!)

Check this out for those of you who think Bitcoin is the only one, or even one of a few crypto-currencies.
That list of a couple dozen are just the ones that have at least $10,000,000.00 of market capitalization. (many of them on the list are much much more)

We are only starting with an equivalent of 100 Bitcoins (10 billion Satoshi Gold) for cold storage to start, but more will be added if the trading volume demands it.
We'll be offering the Trading Platform's Pre-Launch of Satoshi Gold in the next couple of weeks based at $1,000 per Bitcoin valuation, with 1 Satoshi Gold equal to 0.00000001 Bitcoins.
And, we are waiving the 5% Deposit fee for the pre-launch sales.
So...
$20 will buy beneficiary rights to 2,000,000 Satoshi Gold.
$50 will buy beneficiary rights to 5,000,000 Satoshi Gold.
$100 will buy beneficiary rights to 10,000,000 Satoshi Gold.

We have an added (unexpected) benefit to our beneficiary/trustee trust system for cold storage that I will be announcing on the website once we start the pre-launch offering.
I don't expect anyone here to buy-in, so please don't think I am mentioning this here as a sales pitch, because it's not. (twitter and facebook's for that)
I came here to get partners for this venture, and I am just excited to share the progress of the project with you guys.

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1

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