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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Interested in DLL for Advanced 3D Physics?

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Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 31st Mar 2017 19:58
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With the release of v2017.3.31 AppGameKit now has the ability to add third party commands from a DLL.
I have been developing advanced physics features in Tier2 C++ for my own projects. These features can now be
wrapped in a DLL for use in Tier1. I am looking to get some feedback from the community as to how many
users would be interested in theses features. This DLL would not be free but all updates would be as I develop
more features. You can check out my YouTube channel to see videos of these advanced features.

The Current Advanced Features that would be in the DLL.

A Full Ray Cast Vehicle Controller with 2,4,6,... wheels or no wheels( hovercraft style )
A Full set of Impulse, Torque commands for creation of other Vehicles ( Spacecraft, Airplanes )
Featherstone and Fixed Constraint Joints.
Automatic Convex Hull Decomposition of Complex (Concave ) Objects for Creation of Compound Collision Shapes.
Adjustable Center of Mass for Compound Collision Shape Objects.
Automatic Fracture of Objects Using the V-HACD Algorithm and physics setup.
Full Constructive Solid Geometry commands for performing Boolean operations on Objects.
Saving to the OBJ format of Fractured and CSG objects.
Automatic Loading of Fractured Objects.
Full Debug mode. ( Drawing of Collision Shapes ).

Possible Future Features
Rope Physics.
Cloth Physics.
Soft body Physics.
Full Joint Vehicle.

Please post if you would be interested.





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nz0
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Posted: 31st Mar 2017 20:34
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I would be interested.

I already expressed an interest in better control over hull decomposition and volume analysis.
Centre of mass controls is also something I'm already missing - not just for multi-shapes, but off-origin controls.

DRAWING OF COLLISION SHAPES! YES! So, I'm guessing wireframe still isn't there for 3D debug then or coming any time soon?

I would almost certainly be looking at DLL creation myself, as I think this would be a huge plus for AppGameKit, as I'm pretty much only targeting windows anyway.
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Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 31st Mar 2017 21:26
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Quote: "I'm guessing wireframe still isn't there for 3D debug then or coming any time soon?"


You would need access to the core of AppGameKit for this.
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janbo
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Posted: 31st Mar 2017 21:52 Edited at: 31st Mar 2017 21:55
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I would be Interested in a free version
I have one very large Project which won't run on mobile phones because all of the shaders I included
But I use your Physics wrapper(it's a wrapper right ?)
So Windows only is ok for this Project, also I don't know if I ever release it

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hakimfullmetal
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Posted: 1st Apr 2017 12:14
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Would be great if we can have cloth physic, destructible environment. I would kill to be able to make realistic long hair with physic
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damothegreat
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Posted: 1st Apr 2017 12:18
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Im all for this too if that's ok..

The only snag I found with the plug in system is that when we enter commands, they tend to auto populate with possible commands.

I.E. Start entering "setm"

We would get all the SetMemblock commands listed

These plug ins doesn't seem to reference the commands available in the plug In for the autofill on typing.

So, you may need to provide the command sets too?

Anyway, really good of you

Thanks
Damo
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Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 1st Apr 2017 20:15
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Quote: "Would be great if we can have cloth physic, destructible environment. I would kill to be able to make realistic long hair with physic"


Cloth physics is possible to add In the future I am still developing it.

I already developed a fracture system for a destructible environment.
This is a video of it running in DBPro. I will make a video of it running in AGK.



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blink0k
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2017 00:02
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I would certainly be interested in this
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Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2017 23:30
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I was hoping there would be a little more interest in these features.
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Harlequin
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2017 00:48
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I would certainly be interested in this as well, assume you would be able to support Linux one plugin support comes for that as well (not that it would stop me from getting the Windows version)
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Jack
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2017 01:19 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2017 01:29
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I am stunned by the features!

Quote: "A Full Ray Cast Vehicle Controller with 2,4,6,... wheels or no wheels( hovercraft style )
A Full set of Impulse, Torque commands for creation of other Vehicles ( Spacecraft, Airplanes )"


This would be my favorite. I would really want to create a multiplayer airplane game, but was always short of
capable commands. I would also love the soft-body features.

Do you also plan to add an aerodynamic system?
Game Physics are very near 'world' culling and 'object' animation.
I bet you can already create some sort of portal culling system, if CSG does also work.
The native object animation set also misses some commands.
Are there plans to go a little bit off-road in order to add those.

I am interested in a current command list of your plugin


Physics will be a must have soon, so I will get a copy of your plugin, once it's alpha.
I hope tgc will also port the plugin feature to other platforms soon,
but I bet you can already compile your plugin for Tier 2 projects.



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Scraggle
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2017 08:34
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Quote: "I was hoping there would be a little more interest in these features."

It is certainly something that I could be interested in in the future but not something I have any need for right now.
It is also something that I would have hoped TGC would have continued to support instead of dropping your services - I don't know the reason for that so I won't speculate but it was a sad day.
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Green7
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2017 08:53
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Cloth physics and Automatic Fracture is a thing i would go for. i'm just starting with physics, but this will be sure something i could invest some coins.
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Mobiius
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2017 09:18
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I'm interested!
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CJB
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2017 15:17
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I'd also like to see more 3D features, but they need to be multi-platform
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Cor
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2017 19:38
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i agree with cjb while agk does need the improved physics etc, the plugin system really doesnt do alot of us any use if we cant use it on mobile. I dont plan on developing any pc games and as a result i have no reason to buy or invest in plugins. The features you mentioned sound cool, and yes IF the plugin system worked for mobile I would be interested but as of right now I am not. which of course is not your fault in anyway.
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nz0
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2017 19:57
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Quote: "I was hoping there would be a little more interest in these features."


Not only was I glad to see this thread because of what was potentially offered, but it is a good indication of how much use there is in the community for the 3D physics element. I suspected as much when I didn't see a large amount of posts on here regarding that feature.


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Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 4th Apr 2017 02:34
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Unfortunately putting these features in a DLL will prevent them from being Multiplatform.
They should actually be in the core of AGK. I believe that funding was the biggest reason for
not continuing to add physics features. Also the current physics meets the original Kick Starter goals.

I have started a example DLL but have run into a problem. Paul is not giving the DLL the same access
that I have in a Tier2 project. I would have to add the Bullet source to the DLL which may cause some
unforeseen issues. I will investigate further and report back .
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Xaby
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Posted: 4th Apr 2017 10:44
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@Stab in the Dark

I agree with Multiplatform like CJB and Cor.
The problem I see here is, that there might be no reason for using AppGameKit on Windows only, if I am using sometimes it on Mac. The next thing is, that I like the way AppGameKit can easily exported to HTML and Android without trouble of APIs, Frameworks, JDKS, or what ever. I tried Unity and Unreal. To be able, to habe any visuals near the quality of them, I would have to program a lot, or hope, that the GameGuru export would do that. But here is the next problem. GameGuru runs not very good on my machine, and I don't know why. So am using AppGameKit and trying to make my own editor. But for what? I think, the only interest I could get would be on Android, iOS, (MacOS) or Linux, maybe Microsoft UWP or in the direct Web, but on Windows itself, there are so many tool out there, that it would very hard, to compete. Also on Windows plattforms there are seldom disk space issues, so I could use assets which are more complex, but that is a problem, because that would cost much more. What I wanted to say is, for mobile it would be good, but maybe not needed because of the performance and on Windows platform my problem would be, that I had to seperate the developement for other platforms, and if I had to do this, maybe I have to use some other environment.

I could think of "free for Windows" or "free for Testing on Windows" and if the community realy likes it, there have to be a Kickstarter or what ever, that also Tier1 Basic can nativly access these commands.

At this time, I think, we would wait for a "plugin" or "Binarycode" for use as native commans. Like the SWC in Action Script. Or Pascal UNITs. Java-Packages.

Why do we not use Dark Basic, if it is Windows only?

@Stab in the Dark, maybe another Kickstarter or board-request, for 3D and other features. My problem with Tier2 is, that it is not well documented like Tier1. An the next problem is, that I can't use both Tiers at the same time, so for me the Tier1 and Tier2 thing is confusing.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 4th Apr 2017 12:11
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Will you be wrapping a physics library or you writing these yourself? If the latter, I have a cloth physics demo in DBP which relied on springs. And I think someone else did a rope demo years back as well.

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Posted: 4th Apr 2017 15:36
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Quote: "Will you be wrapping a physics library or you writing these yourself? ."


All of the 3D physics in AppGameKit is using the Bullet Physics Engine. So, yes I am just wrapping the Bullet physics engine.
The Fracture and CSG is not part of the Bullet physics Engine, these I developed.
FYI the Bullet Physics Engine is an open source physics engine that is not complete and has bugs.
When wrapping Bullet I have had to change and add code to its source to get it to function correctly.

Quote: " If the latter, I have a cloth physics demo in DBP which relied on springs. And I think someone else did a rope demo years back as well"


I am assuming that any physics code written in Tier1 would run slower and not be practical compared to the Bullet Physics Engine.

It seems that the general opinion is that these physics features would be best in the core of AppGameKit so they are multiplatform.
I have to say I agree with this. It is then up to TGC to add more physics for Tier1 users.



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Jack
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Posted: 6th Apr 2017 11:17
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Can we have a free version of the dll with all features?
It can have some sort of kill-switch to turn all features off after a while. This would allow us to look in the command-set in detail.

Greetings,
Jack


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Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 7th Apr 2017 13:01
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Quote: "Can we have a free version of the dll with all features?"


I have not yet put this into a DLL yet and not sure I can based on the limited AppGameKit access for DLL's.

Quote: "This would allow us to look in the command-set in detail."


This is a preliminary command list which does not include all features.


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nz0
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Posted: 9th Apr 2017 12:39
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After spending some time now with the 3D Physics features, it's clear that decent documentation is essential.
A large part of the value of this DLL may come with the shipped examples and documentation - acceptable ranges, effects and relationships etc.

Example:

Simple relational values between friction, mass and restitution e.g. some constants for surfaces - grass, wood, water, foam, rubber, metal etc.
Explanations for what the range values represent - e.g. if the values are between 0.0 and 1.0, what does 1.0 represent in reality?

I'm guessing that say you have a physics object of mass 5.0 made of #metal, this means that friction is a calculated value of #surface1 and #surface2, restitution=0.01 or something? Is there even a rough formula as a starting point?

I don't know how feasible that is, but I do know that even when things "work" it's the endless twiddling of values to get the desired effect without knowing exactly what the numeric representation means.

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Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 9th Apr 2017 16:33
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Setting these values automatically would not be practical.
AGK is a programming language and not a fully set up game engine.

Try Goggling how others have figured out these values for the Bullet Physics Engine.
Here is what I found.

https://www.thoughtspike.com/friction-coefficients-for-bullet-physics/

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nz0
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Posted: 9th Apr 2017 19:47
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I didn't mean setting them automatically - I meant some general relationship values in documentation which would give people a starting reference.
Anyway, it's not about friction per se - it's an observation about how important good documentation is.
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Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 19th Apr 2017 15:37
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I think there does not seem to be enough interest by the community in these features.
More users would need to post there interest.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 19th Apr 2017 16:39
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Quote: "This would be my favorite. I would really want to create a multiplayer airplane game, but was always short of
capable commands.
"


I'm interested, for similar reasons.


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Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 19th Apr 2017 19:14
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I need at least 100 potential customers for this to be feasible.
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Bigsofty
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Posted: 14th May 2017 22:18
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+1 for me
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JosephB
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Posted: 15th May 2017 10:47
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I am interested.
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Scraggle
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Posted: 15th May 2017 11:51
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I would be very interested if it had full compatibility but since it is a plugin for Windows only then I'd have to say no.
If TGC funded the continued development then that would be a different story.
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Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 15th May 2017 20:45
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Quote: "I would be very interested if it had full compatibility "


I am looking into this possibility because it would be best if it worked on all platforms.
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