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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Confusion about EULA

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TomToad
6
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Joined: 6th Jan 2018
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Posted: 14th Jan 2018 17:46
Bought AppGameKit about a week ago. Just recently got around to reading the EULA in detail. A few details are very confusing and need to be clarified.

Quote: "1.1 You are permitted on a non exclusive basis to:
(a) load the Software into and use it on a single computer which is under your control;
(b) transfer the Software from one computer to another provided it is used on only one computer at any one time;
(c) use the Software on a computer network provided you have purchased such number of copies of the Software equal to the maximum number of copies of the Software in use on that network at any one time;"


Parts a and c make it sound as though you can only have the compiler on one computer at a time. What does someone who develops on more than one do, such as a Mac and Windows machine? Do they need to buy 2 license? Part b could be interpreted as though you can have two copies installed as long as only 1 is in use at a time, but that would contradict a and c leaving the impression that you must uninstall from one computer before installing on the other, or buy more than one license.

Most software aimed at independent developers are usually licensed per developer instead of per computer, allowing the developer to install onto as many computers as reasonably needed as long as they are only used by those who are licensed to do so. If this was the intent, then the EULA needs to be reworded to be clearer.

Quote: "(d) create, in strict accordance with the associated documentation, unlimited Apps (as defined below), and copy and issue copies of these Apps to the public in object code format only, and subject always to the provisions of section 4 below."


This sounds as though one cannot distribute the source code to their app. So I can't include it for others to learn from? What about creating a tutorial, or sharing code snippets for others to use?

Quote: "3. Ownership

You own only the media on which the Software is recorded. You may retain that media on termination of this Agreement provided the Software has been erased. The Owner shall at all times retain ownership of the Software and all subsequent copies of the same regardless of form. Accordingly, the owner continues to own copyright in the Software including any part of the Software (whether modified or not) which is comprised within an object code 'App'. This Agreement applies to the grant of the licence contained in this Agreement only and not to the contract of sale of the media. "


This, by far, is the most confusing part of the EULA. It could be interpreted as though TGC automatically takes ownership of any app that I create with AGK. Usually, ownership of any app or program created with a compiler is owned as a whole by the developer, with the exception of the individual parts provided by the development package, such as the runtime and libraries. This part needs to be clarified as to how much ownership is retained by the developer.
nz0
AGK Developer
16
Years of Service
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Joined: 13th Jun 2007
Location: Cheshire,UK
Posted: 17th Jan 2018 01:45
I don't see any issues with the EULA here. Knock yourself out.
It's talking about the AppGameKit development product, not the stuff you make with it.
easter bunny
11
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Joined: 20th Nov 2012
Playing: Dota 2
Posted: 17th Jan 2018 02:15
I'm no legal expert, but from my understanding, the points in the first one are just there to try and prevent illegal distribution. If you're just using different copies for your own use on different computers, there's about a zero chance of you running into legal issues.
While having multiple copies might technically be against the EULA, I can't see TGC caring whether you do it as long as you aren't giving AppGameKit away.

For part 2, well code snipplets are posted here on the forum all the time (it's encouraged) so the TGC mods don't have a problem with it.
I suspect it's there because of how the AppGameKit tier 2 works. Since T2 is literally just a C++ library, they don't want you including the AppGameKit Core source code. Any code you write an be distributed however you like. You just can't distribute any of the C++ code included with AGK. Again I'm no lawyer. This is just the only EULA interpretation that makes sense to me.

In the third part, whenever it says software, it's referring to AppGameKit, not your game. It's basically saying that you don't get AppGameKit anymore but you can keep the rights to your app.


Hope that clears it up a bit

Cheers,
EB

My Games - Latest WIP - My Website: Immortal.Digital - FB - Twitter
130,000 installs with AppGameKit and counting
basicFanatic
6
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Joined: 7th Jun 2017
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Posted: 17th Jan 2018 03:58

"copies of these Apps to the public in object code format only" sounds pretty much like it forbids you to publish your own source code. Which is a pretty big deal, I think.
BatVink
Moderator
20
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Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 17th Jan 2018 12:09
TGC are more than happy for you to share source code. But you couldn't for example:

* distribute the Tier 2 AppGameKit components
* Create a program that allows you to run AppGameKit source code without owning AGK


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
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Jack
19
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Joined: 4th Oct 2004
Location: [Germany]
Posted: 17th Jan 2018 16:44 Edited at: 17th Jan 2018 16:52
I think TGC is good with one AppGameKit licence on many devices, as long as there is only one programming user per licence.
Shared working spaces should also have an own AppGameKit licence, even when all users have bought AppGameKit,
well I mean AppGameKit is way cheaper and easier for most applications and games, thousand times better than pseudo code, if you want to explain a function or algorythm.
AGK is plug and play on win/ osx/ pi. There aren't millions of presets to be done, no thousand windows to go though, no overbloat in the editor - purrrfect for rapid prototyping.

So support our troops as much as you can!

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puzzler2018
User Banned
Posted: 17th Jan 2018 18:41 Edited at: 17th Jan 2018 18:41
And with the cost of AppGameKit compared to the others on the market, its well priced that can ultimately sell your games and recoup the price of it ten fold within a few months

Happy coding and enjoy what you can do rather than worrying about EULAs too much

Have fun
basicFanatic
6
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Joined: 7th Jun 2017
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Posted: 17th Jan 2018 20:37
This reminds me of the time I complained about the pretty shady EULA on the GOG.com store:
"GOG reserves the right to (...) cancel any user account at any time for any reason" ???

(for clarity: In that thread, I use my real name "Kasper Hviid")

So the GOG store can delete user accounts "for any reason". And since the games bought on gog.com are tied to the user account, the EULA basically say that the store can take back the products it has already sold. I thought most customers would agree that this wasn't optimal. Yet, my post got low-rated, and there were a lot of people arguing in favour of the EULA.

Here, the EULA says that the user can't publish his own source code. It's quite clear on this. I would have thought most developers would be just a little bit annoyed to learn that the editor declares ownership over stuff they had created themselves. Guess I'm dead wrong.

puzzler2018
User Banned
Posted: 17th Jan 2018 20:48
Difficult

I think - you own the code - its yours for the keeping - you wrote it afterall - unless you post any code on here then its TGCs

But then we using a service (AGK Compilation), so now makes me think its your main app code belongs to you unless you want to distribute that, why would anyone want to publish their own coding anyway -- unless Its the bytecode compilation belongs to them they mean

I might be totally wrong too

Anyway - im waffling...

Mobiius
Valued Member
21
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Joined: 27th Feb 2003
Location: The Cold North
Posted: 18th Jan 2018 09:30
Your code is yours. period. always. Regardless of where you post it. (You can post it on the forums here, and it's still your code, but by publicly posting it, you waive the right to claim copyright on it, meaning anyone can take your code and use it as their own in any project without needing to credit the original user. (We normally provide a pseudo licence though stating if you use it, please provide credit. But it's not legally binding.)
The AppGameKit source code belongs to TGC, you cannot share it, use it to create your own competing project, or claim it as your own. Tier 1 is a non-issue, publish your source code until your hearts content. But tier2, you can only publish the source code you wrote yourself. You CANNOT publish any core AppGameKit code. (E.G. the libraries etc.)
Xaby
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
16
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Joined: 17th Apr 2007
Location: Berlin
Posted: 18th Jan 2018 20:52
@basicFanatic
basicFanatic wrote: ""Here, the EULA says that the user can't publish his own source code.""

That would be like: The created Photos with Photoshop belongs to Adobe or All Letters you did with Microsoft Word are property of Microsoft.

It's like, you wrote a book with words and letters, but the letters and words are standing in a dictionary. You are not allowed to exactly reproduce the dictiionary itself, but you can use the words in other order, sentences and publish your own ideas.

It's easy. You created by your own, it's yours and you can publish it. It was there before and was created by others, you can't publish it. (unless it's OpenSource or something similar, like using code from this board, I think, in most cases)

You can publish your source code and make it OpenSource, but! The compiler itself belongs to TGC, so you can't make that part OpenSource. But it's no problem, if somebody want's to use your SourceCode, he/she, thisone has to get a legal license of the Compiler (in any form) from TGC.

You are not allowed to distribute the compiler in any form. That would be the easiest interpretation, I think.
basicFanatic
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Posted: 19th Jan 2018 01:02
@Xaby: A legally binding contract can grant the employer has full ownership over the stuff their employee creates. This is why Oculus got sued for half a billion(!!!) Without being an expert, I would guess that it would be just as legally binding if a similar clause was added to an EULA?

It sounds logical that the intention is to protect Tier 2 libraries. And nothing wrong with that! Only problem is, the way this is formulated in the EULA also forbids the user to publish his own code. But since nobody reads EULAS anyway, no harm done!

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