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AppGameKit Classic Chat / AGK Mobile - Why?

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MikeHart
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 08:40
I am puzzled about the reasoning to develop AGK2 Mobile. Why? What are the REAL advantages?

To me it looks like a gimmick.Personally I can't see myself coding on my 5.5" phone. It is as useless as it could be. A trimmed down IDE... nahhh.

What was the motivation to develop this? As AppGameKit was/is a one man show reagarding developer resources, was this developed by Paul?
Running Windows 7 Home, 64 bit, 8 GB ram, Athlon II X2 255, ATI Radeon HD 4200. Using AGK2 Tier 1.
RickV
TGC Development Director
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 09:31
Hi Mike,

The Android (and soon iOS) mobile versions were app ideas we conceived late last year. Paul has not coded this and continues on the main desktop version.

The main idea is to spread the brand into the massive Android and iOS platforms where we're sure to find new customers who can see what's possible with AppGameKit.

Sure it's not for everyone but if you're on the go with a phone or tablet and if you have a blue tooth keyboard you can do some coding with it.

Rick
Development Director
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IronManhood
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 09:57
This could be helpful to record or maybe test some ideas if you're not home. I agree that coding on a phone is ridiculous but it's possible to use external keyboards with tablets and phones so you could potentially set this up similar to a desktop.
Zigi
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 10:04 Edited at: 1st Feb 2018 10:14
Don't forget about Chromebooks!! They come with Android filesystem now and you can run Android apps on them.
I tried straight away last night and it worked pretty good on my Acer R11 Chromebook. There is a little problem with using the touch pad and put it full screen on the 11" device but otherwise it worked nicely.
I need to agree on that I can't see my self coding on a phone or tablet on the go but a I can imagine using my Chromebook.

@RickV
I can see you are focusing on phones and tablets please make sure it 100% compatible with Chrome devices too. Chrome devices are become more popular and more powerful. Chrome OS is also coming to desktops with Chromeboxes and Chromebases. It would make more sense to me if Chrome would be the main target of AGK.
I have mentioned I have problem with the touch pad and using it in full screen on my Chromebook. Also would be nice if the on screen keyboard would hide automatically if a keyboard is present.
MikeHart
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 10:34
Thanks Rick for the explanation.
Running Windows 7 Home, 64 bit, 8 GB ram, Athlon II X2 255, ATI Radeon HD 4200. Using AGK2 Tier 1.
Rick Nasher
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 10:48
I will use it while commuting to work. I loose 2hrs a day traveling every day, so this is a very welcome plus.
Great for debugging, or putting down quick ideas which can be worked on further in full when back at the main machine later on.

Many thanks AGK.

Scraggle
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 11:13
I had my laptop stolen a few months ago and while I was waiting for a replacement I remember thinking, it would be great if I could code directly on my iPad.
Now I can!

But I won't.

Not unless my laptop walks again. The onscreen keyboard is not something I would want to use out of choice. and if I remember to pack a Bluetooth keyboard, then I would also remember to pack my laptop.
I can see that this has its uses for a very select few people and I hope I'm never in a position to be one of them again but it is handy to know its there if I need it
Pfaber1
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 12:39
I just downloaded it to take a look and it's not bad although editing the code was a little awkward but that might of just been me. Thank you.
Xaby
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 13:00 Edited at: 1st Feb 2018 13:03
I love it. Why? I can test some short things directly on my phone, without Cross-compiling and installing the APK first. I would love to have AndroidTV support as well, can't install it from the Google Play Store on my Razer ForgeTV. That would be great. Because you can code on a big Screen than with mouse and keyboard.

I also think, it is a great first step for ARM architecture.

Windows 10 on a Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 (ARM)
http://winfuture.de/news,100933.html

So the Raspberrian AGK2 and Android AGK2 are best, for showcasing, that TheGameCreators are ready for the NextBigThing.

And maybe with iPad Pro and keyboard, the new "computers" are on ARM basis.

Or the next Desktop.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3184230/computers/the-anatomy-of-a-powerful-desktop-with-an-arm-chip.html
Bengismo
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 13:30
xaby wrote: "I love it. Why? I can test some short things directly on my phone, without Cross-compiling and installing the APK first. ."


You can just use the android AppGameKit Player app for immediate testing on android device - just broadcast from PC/Mac and try in 3 seconds. No need to cross compile. I do this simultaneously with about 5+ devices on my network....code once on the PC and try in a few seconds on PC, android phone, android tablet, Odroid, Rasb pi etc...

I personally don't see a reason to even try to write code directly on my phone or tablet but there will be many more full laptop/computers complete with keyboards running android in the future (like chromebooks) so this may be much more useful for that market.

Its also FREE!
GarBenjamin
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 14:34
I think it has the potential to be able to generate a good amount of buzz introducing a lot of new people to AGK2. Having the ability to develop right on your tablet (I wouldn't think many except teens would attempt any real development on a cell) is a clear advantage over most game dev alternatives out there.

That being said @MikeHart I also thought "and this represents lost effort on the main AGK2 product" lol But from what I've seen they seem to be hiring more folks as needed to get these other projects done. Which is great! I hope one day they can have a team of 2 to 3 very skilled devs working full-time on AGK2 (or 3)
TI/994a (BASIC) -> C64 (BASIC/PASCAL/ASM/Others) -> Amiga (AMOS/BLITZ/ASM/C/Gamesmith) -> DOS (C/C++/Allegro) -> Windows (C++/C#/Monkey X/GL Basic/Unity/Others)
Xaby
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 15:13
@Bengismo

can you make an tutorial, how to run AppGameKit on a Raspberry Pi? I didn't get any compiled code to run on Raspbian Stretch.
Carharttguy
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 15:31
To be honest, the why question was also the first one popping into my head.
I'm really glad to hear Paul's time wasn't dedicated to this.
While it may lead to exposure, this is not really what a majority of the AppGameKit users would like to see more focus on.

But I totally understand that the AppGameKit team want more exposure on the mobile market. Altough I highly doubt this will work with a mobile coding tool. But that's personal. I'm not a business owner, so I hope I'm wrong!
Mobiius
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 16:13
Not all android devices are phones, or have small screens. I have an android box connected to my TV with a keyboard and mouse attached. Now I could do native development directly on and android device, saving the time needed to broadcast to the device.
Don't forget you can also get 10" android tablets, the large screen could make development possible for a whole new market. (Trade shows, expos, ted talks etc)

As long as development on AppGameKit core doesn't get forgotten about for yet another failed project (*cough cough* Freedom engine *cough*) I'm ok with this.

What you want to do is strike a deal with TelCo providers to have it pre-installed on devices. Hook 'em when their young!
Rick Nasher
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 17:52
Also, this could be great for less fortunate people, who can only afford 1 phone or tablet, such as in 3rd world countries.
For them this would open up lots of new doors.
c0d3r9
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 18:01
And donĀ“t forget Android for Raspberry....hmmmm i need more raspis
Markus
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 20:30 Edited at: 1st Feb 2018 20:32
for myself, a argument for the "Why" would be if this developing at android device is almost the same as a pc.

the main thread was locked so i use this one
we need a config for the text size in editor.
the most important thing: we need to see the source code and much as possible.
also a option for a developing view landscape / portait.
at my tablet (in landscape ) this ide starts up in portait inside landscape and after the first run it change to landscape and fill the screen.

idea:
instead of on screen keyboard or extern hardware keyboard , maybe a other phone used as keyboard? tablet+phone (agk screen keyboard app) combination.
much people have old and new phones so one can act as screen keyboard device.
AGK (Steam) V2017.12.12 : Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit : AMD (17.12.1) Radeon R7 265 : Mac mini OS High Sierra (10.13)
Bengismo
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 20:58 Edited at: 1st Feb 2018 21:36
Implementing another phone as a keyboard to a different phone sounds like a bit of a nightmare really!!

I just prefer a full size keyboard as its a lot more comfortable to work on. Small bluetooth combined mice and keyboards cost very little money and work with tablets phones too so this could be good...

I hope AppGameKit Mobile does well! Will be good to see an Ios release too!

EDITED..
blink0k
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 21:00 Edited at: 1st Feb 2018 21:00
It would be cool if it integrated with Google's keyboard, Gboard, which allows voice and other forms of input
xCept
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 21:15
Quote: "The Android (and soon iOS) mobile versions"


Hopefully Apple won't give you grief due to the following guideline:

> 2.5.2 Apps should be self-contained in their bundles, and may not read or write data outside the designated container area, nor may they download, install, or execute code, including other apps. Educational apps designed to teach, develop, or allow students to test executable code may, in limited circumstances, download code provided that such code is not used for other purposes. Such apps must make the source code provided by the Application completely viewable and editable by the user.

It should hopefully fall under educational apps designed to develop, but I know the trouble TGC had with the original AppGameKit Player itself.
puzzler2018
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 21:15
We all have to follow our dreams for the love of game programming and if its with us 24/7 then spot on..
Markus
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 22:01
Quote: " Small bluetooth combined mice and keyboards cost"

i have one for my rasberry pi but my tablet will not list or couple ..

Quote: "Implementing another phone as a keyboard to a different phone sounds like a bit of a nightmare really!! "

as i said a special app with full screen keyboard for this ide.
i have a wii u , this handheld part works also very well as screen keybord.
as example, after run you can show debug information or pause/step/stop icons or something else.
AGK (Steam) V2017.12.12 : Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit : AMD (17.12.1) Radeon R7 265 : Mac mini OS High Sierra (10.13)
Jerry McGuire
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 22:27
Congrats Rick! I hope it attracts more people.
Best
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iPhone 6, iOS 9.35; iPhone 5s, iOS 9.35; iPad (3rd gen), iOS 9.35;

Dell Precision T7400, Windows 7 Professional 64bit, Visual Studio Community 2015;
miki
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Posted: 1st Feb 2018 23:17
Quote: "we need a config for the text size in editor"


i second that

regards,
miki
in the end
RobbSnow
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2018 15:14
I have longed for the ability to do this. AGK2 has always seemed like a great candidate to be to do game development on both the desktop and on tablet. I am looking forward to trying this out on my Android tablet and even better on my iPad in the future.
Markus
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2018 17:03
Quote: "bluetooth combined mice and keyboard"

so i got couple it with phone and had tested with agk mobile.
for any reason the cursor keys did not work well, i need very often click twice for row changing else nothing happens.

AGK (Steam) V2017.12.12 : Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit : AMD (17.12.1) Radeon R7 265 : Mac mini OS High Sierra (10.13)
xCept
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2018 01:02 Edited at: 3rd Feb 2018 01:38
I had a little time to try this on a few Android tablets. A few of comments:

* Orientation and resolution issues. When you first open the app up in landscape mode, it actually starts in "portrait" mode and then is scrunched to the center of the screen. Re-orientating the device a couple times will then stretch the interface more suitably.

* The project list should be displayed in a simple list view, not large icon view since all we see are blank folder images anyway. On small resolutions the current implementation makes it difficult to read the project names and also consumes a lot more visible space.

* The font is far too large with no customization. On my 10.1" tablet in landscape view with button bar and keyboard visible there are only three lines of code visible. In portrait mode most lines of code will require scrolling to see due to how large the font is.

* Auto-complete needs work. The auto-complete system should also pre-populate with parentheses and placeholder data that you can then enter for each parameter. Right now it will only complete the base function name but expect you to know precisely the type of parameters and then fill them out manually.

I would recommend TGC review popular existing code IDEs for mobile to get inspiration of how they handle code sizing, auto-completion and other mobile-specific optimizations. I also was unable to use a "hardware" keyboard such as that through an emulator with this app.
Golelorn
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2018 03:44
I'd rather take my tablet than a laptop on trips. In fact, I have stopped taking my laptop. Too much risk if I lose it, break it, etc.

I have a vacation to FL in 3 weeks. I plan on testing this out. I am wondering, though, what about the media files? I assume they need to be on my device?
IronManhood
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2018 13:21
I had issues where the delete key wouldn't delete selected text until I changed the cursor to each line.
hoyoyo80
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Posted: 4th Feb 2018 03:56
will be getting tab s3 once this fully develope
PHeMoX
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Posted: 4th Feb 2018 20:44
I would maybe consider using this, but only if we would have some kind of acceptable exchange between developing on a Windows laptop, opening the project on my smart phone and have both somehow synchronized or there would be very very little point in 'not using my laptop'.
Kevin Cross
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Posted: 4th Feb 2018 22:51
I think I'd probably only use this to test a couple of lines of code when commuting to see if something works when I'm needing to write a function or a formula.

I can't see the option to add include files. It has include files as a placeholder comment in one of the example projects I loaded but I can't see the option to add extra files.

I know I've said that I'd probably only use it for a couple of lines of code to check something but if it's aimed to write full games on your mobile or tablet then having the option to add include files would be good too. It may already be there but I can't see it.
Santman
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Posted: 5th Feb 2018 11:56
Sure it's been mentioned, but just in case......without the ability to access things such as drop box and Google drive I can't see how to share anything here put with the mobile device. Or import stuff to it. Given that, not sure how useful it is as a tool, but I understand it as a method of building interest.
1989
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Posted: 14th Feb 2018 09:50
I think it's because people are wondering how software works and at some point they will learn from it. Smartphones are powerful devices and it may be a necessity at some point to just have something like this existing in the world. Knowledge allows people to fly but wandering around with a smarthphone in your pocket and not already being able to mine cryptokurrency for every step you takk based on an app you created/wrote/developed yourself or downloaded for free from the AppShop is an idea. I'll put the word pipedream in here. So, software is like smoking. This is to AppGameKit what vaping is to smokers maybe? Keeping the kids away from it in some ways but letting the kids get in on it in other ways. Knowledge. Think about a classroom and the order of thought, who gets to the right idea first.

People getting their people to test the "apps" they made on their phones for them is a thing.

1 year ago today there were articles on the British Government Controlled Media about massive shortfalls in the cybersecurity skills sekt0r. Get learning on that "app" you need to be running on your phone for me.

Now I am here...
Dybing
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Posted: 14th Feb 2018 13:27
I'l probably use it on my Android Tablet for when busing to/from work.

Another great use-case is for the educational system. Many schools forego full-fledged PCs/Laptops for the kids (at least until High-School age), but supply them with Android Tablets or (yuk) iPads instead. With AppGameKit available on these platforms, it'll be quite easy for schools to get going with teaching 'proper' programming to the kids rather than all this connecting graphical blocks stuff many use today.

All TGC need do, is write up some appropriate curriculum for the teachers to follow in the classroom, say for grade 5-6, and an advanced curriculum for grade 7-9. Most teachers after all are about as good in programming as they are in esoteric subjects such as math... Which is to say, not very. But they are quite decent at following written instructions and communicating that to the kids. These curricula (sp?) TGC could then sell to the schools.

At grade 10-12 the kids should probably move on to a more mainstream language like say Python, Go or heaven forbid JS to learn some more advanced topics in programming which are lacking in the straight forward procedural paradigm of AGK.

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