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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Spine Runtime Update to 3.7 into AGK

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Xaby
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Posted: 8th Jan 2019 10:59
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Why do we need a new Spine support


AGK is great, but for an artist or more visualy driven games, the new Spine Runtime would be the best. And we hadn't an update in years for the skeleton-animations.

Did anybody allready worked with the AppGameKit "open source" thingly and maybe implemented it or so? I have no idea, how complecated it would be. Don't know, how to start. Some help is needed.
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psychoanima
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Posted: 8th Jan 2019 11:44
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I am more concerned if AppGameKit will support Spriter 2
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puzzler2018
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Posted: 8th Jan 2019 12:39
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What are the potential file formats these apps produces. Anything we know or their own special formats.

Agk supports fbx. Obj.. X as far as I'm aware
Not sure on any of the others though
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Bengismo
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Posted: 8th Jan 2019 13:00 Edited at: 8th Jan 2019 13:15
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I think most of the base functionality is already in there to load skeleton based characters. Not really sure what else has been added in the 3.7 release that we would really want.

LoadSkeleton2DFromSpineFile()
https://www.appgamekit.com/documentation/Reference/Skeleton/LoadSkeleton2DFromSpineFile.htm
Its a JSON format that we can already import easily

As has been said above, I prefer Spriter and Dragonbones mainly as the $300 cost for the full version of spine to include most of these features isnt worth it in my opinion when others do 99% for free.
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baxslash
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Posted: 8th Jan 2019 13:18
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I hear you bengisimo but some of us got Spine cheap when it was on kickstarter
Using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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Bengismo
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Posted: 8th Jan 2019 13:29 Edited at: 8th Jan 2019 13:31
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I got my copy cheap too way back, but then realized there are others that do the same for zero cost. Any new artists typically wont want to pay out large amounts on software that has much cheaper alternatives but thats up to them, im not an artist.

Anyway, what new features are actually wanted that aren't currently compatible with AGK's spine support?
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baxslash
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Posted: 8th Jan 2019 14:36
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Stretching/squashing and inverse kinematics for a start. That would be awesome. I haven't looked for a while as AppGameKit wasn't doing most of the new fun stuff from over a year or so ago.
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Bengismo
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Posted: 8th Jan 2019 14:58 Edited at: 8th Jan 2019 14:59
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You can already stretch squash bones in AppGameKit spine support??

SetSkeleton2DBoneScale( iSkeleton, bone, sx, sy )
or just stretch and squash them in spine while modelling the character and it is then played correctly in AppGameKit with scaled bones as part of its movement

IK is for when modelling the movement in Spine and aids in making realistic movements....has no real use in AppGameKit though which just plays the animations made in spine??
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Xaby
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Posted: 8th Jan 2019 18:49 Edited at: 8th Jan 2019 18:50
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@Bengismo,

what AppGameKit can't do ... Spriter files are not support well, and most serious artists use Spine because of the Setup-Pose. Spine can do events like Sprite, but that is not implemented in AGK.
Spine can swap between outfits / skins. And in Spriter you could use another texture Atlas, but both are not supported in AGK.

Spine can do "Add... something to a Skeleton Bone ..." didn't see that in AppGameKit without a huge workaround.

So I don't know, if it must support version 3.7, but the skeleton animation commands are very basic in comparism to let's say "Game Maker Studio 1.4" from 2015
So it is very unusable in AppGameKit, if you can't work with artists, beause you can't trust AppGameKit to play the animations in the correct form. And if the artist uses Spine let's say 3.4 but AppGameKit only supports 3.2, then the animations JSON file can't be loaded.
So for that, it would be great, to update also the playback runtimes in AppGameKit, to be able to use Spine in a better more modern workflow.

And I tried also other programs, but skeleton animations are not working correct in AppGameKit and it is not nice, to be forced, to export only to PNGs or other sprite-animations with massive use of RAM and storage. Texture Atlas in Spriter? Meh ... who needs that

Bounding boxes! Spine supports bounding boxes, but don't know, how to use them in AppGameKit in an easy way.
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janbo
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Posted: 8th Jan 2019 19:32
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With
Quote: "And in Spriter you could use another texture Atlas"

you mean like a normal map for lighting ?
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Bengismo
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Posted: 8th Jan 2019 20:21 Edited at: 8th Jan 2019 20:22
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Thanks for the clarification. Im all for good updates but just wanted to see what functionality is wanted that isnt there already was all.

We used an artist to produce the graphics for a 2d game made for kids (similar to Dizzy in wonderland) and we didnt have problems but I know others have had issues with spriter and spine files scaling correctly so wanted to see what they were.

Quote: "Spine can do "Add... something to a Skeleton Bone ..." didn't see that in AppGameKit without a huge workaround."

You can use FixSpriteToSkeleton2D()
This allowed us to put different weapons in the characters hands

I must admit that having some form of collision detection without having to manually set the sprites at each bone would be good.

Being able to set the image(s) used for each skeleton would be good too for reskinning. Not sure how events would work but hopefully Paul can update it to the latest version and introduce a few more commands to better support the skeleton section of the commands.
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Xaby
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Posted: 8th Jan 2019 21:51
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@Bengismo

in 2014, Spine was fine in Game Maker Studio, and I missed some of the functions since in AppGameKit
https://www.yoyogames.com/blog/43/skeletal-animation-sprites-using-spine

Also what I don't understand is, how it is possible, to use one Skeleton, but more Outfits or how to change Sprites in the animation.

What I could do in Game Maker Studio was e.g., that I had a Sprite in the Skeleton on a Bone in Spine with maybe a "hat" and say: Please let Sprite-"hat" be Sprite-"hat2" that was great

Quote: ""There are also attachment "slots" available for your Spine sprite, and these are points where you can have your sprite draw a separate image that doesn't have a bone. It will then be moved along with the parent bone, permitting you to give your animation multiple sub-images for attaching within a single sprite. These attachment slots should be named appropriately, as should the images that they use, since these names will be used within GameMaker: Studio to change attachments at run-time.""


So for this function, I would have to do a complex work-arround or track the skeleton data myself and so on ...

The idea with the "Slots" is, to arrange all in Spine, and do nothing in the programming environment. I could change the images in its positon, but with AppGameKit I would have to fiddle arround, each time the image would change. I would have to create my own "Setup" or something like that.
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Xaby
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Posted: 10th Jan 2019 08:49
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I am a little bit sceptic, if the timelapse is "correct". Last time I tried out Creature, it wasn't as easy or robust and I also had problems with the resulting FBX file in AppGameKit with some transparency. But it is promising.


https://creature.kestrelmoon.com/

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