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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Does AppGameKit have a future?

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Polaraul
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Posted: 28th Feb 2019 18:09
What will happen to AppGameKit with the release of AppGameKit Studio? Will development be stopped?
fubarpk
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Posted: 28th Feb 2019 20:40
They have stated that it will be continued to be developed but with the main focus being on the new vulkan engine.
AppGameKit studio will have the option of using both engines. The reason being is vulkan is a much faster engine
but wont work on some of the older hardware so the older machines will still need to use AppGameKit classics engine.
fubar
puzzler2018
User Banned
Posted: 28th Feb 2019 20:58
Vulkhan is probably hardware focussed rather than software.. But AppGameKit Classic has their driving apps run on it... So dont fret too much... Moving forward is a good thing... Just maybe a new language or additional commands to learn thats all

Not sure why everyone is blooming worried to be honest - its a step in the right direction - so embrace the idea
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DavidAGK
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Posted: 28th Feb 2019 22:33
So long as old code works I think it’s a brilliant step forwards... and they’ve said it it is the same code engine under the hood. So, as puzzler2018 says... I reckon it’s a good thing!
Using Tier 1 AppGameKit V2
Started coding with AMOS (Thanks Francois Lionet)
puzzler2018
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Posted: 28th Feb 2019 22:36
it will, stop panicking..... for the love of god
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Kevin Cross
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Posted: 28th Feb 2019 23:32
In all of the posts I've seen from TGC they've said that the code will work and that the language isn't changing. That was my understanding of it anyway.

All I see Studio as is a replacement for geany and Visual Editor, although they've not shown the visual editor side of it yet in their sneak peek videos.
OryUI - A WIP AGK2 UI Framework
Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 1st Mar 2019 01:33
they are taking a red bull and get wings with studio
Polaraul
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Posted: 1st Mar 2019 12:33
puzzler2018 wrote: "Not sure why everyone is blooming worried to be honest - its a step in the right direction - so embrace the idea"


My biggest issue is that I think I am seeing the same repeat cycle that most TGC products succumb to. A product is launched, DLC is added, then the product never gets fully developed before it is retired in favour of something else. AppGameKit Studio would have to have a significant increase in the number of commands over that of AppGameKit to tempt me to buy.
The Next
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Posted: 1st Mar 2019 13:28 Edited at: 1st Mar 2019 13:29
@Polaraul

As others have said this isn't about killing AppGameKit Classic or not giving users what they paid for with that.

Studio is about creating a better IDE with a new rendering engine which will improve things across the board. From what I know the plan is to make AppGameKit Studio work with the AppGameKit Classic DLC so you don't lose out in any way on the DLC side.

With the improvements coming from the new IDE and rendering engine plus the ability to keep using all the old code you have written it seems like this is worth the release price (even more worth the big discount at the moment). There have been free AppGameKit updates for years and as this is a big update I don't see the issue with it being charged for especially when all the functionality you originally paid for with the old version is in place

Also TGC are committed the AppGameKit Classic syntax as some of their own apps are written in it and they really don't want to change those and start from scratch, they are in the same position as all of you.

If I were you I'd grab the studio version while it is heavily discounted.
Windows 10, Intel i7 4.2 GHz, 16GB DDR4, NVIDIA RTX 2060

baxslash
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Posted: 1st Mar 2019 13:42
Quote: "If I were you I'd grab the studio version while it is heavily discounted."

Just did
Using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
Polaraul
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Posted: 1st Mar 2019 14:09
@The Next

Thank you for such a detailed answer, it is appreciated.

My main focus is 3D work, and I would gladly purchase AppGameKit Studio if I knew it could fulfill my needs. I had to abandon AppGameKit long ago in favour of Three.js. The AppGameKit command set was not just there. If AppGameKit Studio is a drastic improvement over the commands of AppGameKit then I would buy it today, but from what I can understand, aside from the Visual Editor, this is just the same command set already found in AppGameKit under the bonnet. In truth, the Visual Editor would not be the reason I purchased AppGameKit Studio.

I guess one thing that would tempt me to buy is knowing that AppGameKit Studio will have more commands available (specially for 3D) and not just those found in the current release of AppGameKit. One other thing I am curious about is that of the demo render scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLPd3y58dJw Could you please confirm that this scene was created using AppGameKit Studio, if so, does this mean that AppGameKit Studio actually comes with a PBR solution.

Many thanks in advance
Kevin Cross
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Posted: 1st Mar 2019 14:22
@Polaraul I think your best bet is to put a list of things you'd like to see in AppGameKit and AppGameKit Studio. I know it sometimes feels like your requests fall on deaf ears but I've seen some things I've been requesting for ages get added to AppGameKit over time. They update AppGameKit each month with bug fixes and the occasional new feature and set of commands
OryUI - A WIP AGK2 UI Framework
GaborD
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Posted: 1st Mar 2019 15:01 Edited at: 5th Mar 2019 15:42
Quote: "Could you please confirm that this scene was created using AppGameKit Studio, if so, does this mean that AppGameKit Studio actually comes with a PBR solution."


Those videos were recorded with the AppGameKit Studio beta using tier 1 (Basic) code and some custom shaders. (runs around 400 to 500FPS on a GTX 1070)

A dev will have to answer what the plans for adding things like PBR to the core engine are, I can't answer that.
Keep in mind PBR needs an entire tool-chain to generate all the data you need to feed the shaders. PBR is all about the lighting data.
In any case, you can do it yourself already without even needing to delve into any low level systems, just with simple tier 1 code. (and exactly this flexibility while being simple to use is AGK's main strength in my opinion), so it's basically a "best of both worlds" thing right now (just like original AGK).
You have the freedom and flexibility to do anything and you can also keep it lean and customized for performance.
smerf
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2019 08:03
I literally just bought appgamekit a couple weeks ago after finally abandoning darkbasicpro. I Had no idea there was a agkstudio in the works. I wish the game creators would stick with something and continually improve it. how many pieces of software do i have to buy that are instantly unsupported or abandoned? agk studio is a prettier ui with a few extra features , and thats what they should be "feature" updates to loyal customers. cshop-> world stuidio: plant life. T.ed third party sold through agk. dead as a dorknob, dbpro dead, agk dead. dbpro needed a ui overhaul for a very very long time and finally it got one on its way to the grave.

Its like buying a 2018 car that only has 3 wheels and by the end of the year your expecting to get your 4th wheel from the dealer but instead the dealer makes a new car with 4 tires and no longer offers the option to by tires , instead you have to by a whole new car. Also replacement parts and and mechanic work are no longer available for your vehicle unless u buy the new one. How long will that business model flourish?

It took me "YEARS" to switch to agk because dbpro was so unfinished and buggy then abandoned and i was afraid to buy anything else from tgc. Hey heres dbpro make a game super easy! fight with the compiler for a week then find out its a bug rinse and repeat for a few years. virtually no well known file formats work or not correctly. so far my experience with agk has been super pleasant, but with the lack of shader support i would have abandoned it as well if it wasnt for the fact that i've become an expert modeler and texture baker because of dbrpos downfalls. Dev Quote
Quote: "
Also TGC are committed the AppGameKit Classic syntax as some of their own apps are written in it and they really don't want to change those and start from scratch, they are in the same position as all of you."


Not promising either agk syntax is very long a concern many have stated. a thousand extra keystrokes for a hundred lines. could have written an extra hundred lines probably. I'm still confused as to why the syntax from dbpro wasn't kept for easy transition to your new product. no one wanted to relearn all the commands but lots were forced to. I will probably buy agkstudio but it i don't feel like im wiping my but with silk toilet paper i can promise this is the last thing ill ever get from the game creators and i think others are feeling the same way. time to move on to python or tgm yoyo or anything with a better track record. unity blender free tools&engine 100xs more powerful constantly upgraded and supported for free, we just stick around cause a-lot of us grew up on dbclassic and dbpro and this is were we are most comfortable.
A child's dream never dies.





The Next
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2019 11:01 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2019 11:18
Quote: " I wish the game creators would stick with something and continually improve it. how many pieces of software do i have to buy that are instantly unsupported or abandoned?"


I don't think that is fair in anyway.

AppGameKit 2 was released in 2013, that was 6 years ago and since then the community have got free updates for the original price of under £100 and often much cheaper than that when on offer (The lowest Steam price was £18).

I know you may feel like you aren't getting value for money because you only just made the switch, but that isn't TGCs fault. They aren't abandoning AppGameKit, it is in a stable state and is the complete product which you paid for.

Just to put this in some context on cost if you subscribed to Unity Plus for 6 years it would have cost you £1800 and you would still be limited on your revenue you can earn (yes there is a free version but that is revenue limited as well). Yes Unity may get more frequent updates but they aren't free and they are also a much larger team than TGC.
Windows 10, Intel i7 4.2 GHz, 16GB DDR4, NVIDIA RTX 2060

MikeHart
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2019 13:24
Quote: "They aren't abandoning AppGameKit, it is in a stable state "


So the slowdown issues in the IDE and rendering issues on OSX are fixed? I don't think so.
Pfaber1
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2019 16:02
I intend to be using AppGameKit classic for a while yet. I think it'll still be relevant for a couple of years . I've had it for just over a year and written a few games . Nothing amazing but my hobby.
I might upgrade to AppGameKit studio when the dust has settled and you guys can tell me what you think. I paid 25 quid for AppGameKit classic off of steam . Best 25 quid I've ever spent on my computer.
50 dollars what's that about 40 quid to buy it now . sounds good really . I might even consider an early purchase although I doubt it'll be 100 dollars for long . Good to see they're keeping the same language
as I don't want to learn a new one . It seems to be well thought out . I've come a long way since my ZX81 . If I buy AppGameKit studio now when will I get it do I have to wait until June 10. ? I used to have STOS on the Atari
520 STe many years ago and loved that. I think that was the game creators who did that or at least they had a connection . Anyway I just want to say what an awesome forum this is .
Have a nice day.
The Next
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2019 16:44
Quote: " If I buy AppGameKit studio now when will I get it do I have to wait until June 10. ?"


If you buy now you get a download version (not steam) until June, then in June you get either a Steam version or a Download version depending on what version you purchase now.
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smerf
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2019 18:14 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2019 18:33
is app game kit studio far enough in development that if I buy it right now can I migrate to it from agks from agk without having to redo everything or fight bugs constantly? also what is the future of agk mobile.
A child's dream never dies.





Rick Nasher
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2019 18:49 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2019 18:59
BASIC variants I've used in the past:

- Aquarius (MS) BASIC
- Commodore C16/C64 (MS)BASIC
- AmigaBASIC
- AMOS
- BlitzBasic
- MS Visual BASIC
- Blitz3D/Plus/Max

I really liked Blitz3D, but it had it's limitations and wasn't developed anymore. Ideally had been merged with Plus and Max, Monkey but the creators decided otherwise, decided to restart from scratch multiple times. If you do that, you'll lose your public, fans and scare potential customers.


In AGK's case I can understand for it's now multiplatform and not every platform supports the same stuff, hence syntax needs to be more suitable/universal for all platforms. Perhaps was too hard to adapt. However, it would be great if they would incorporate all the features advertised and people expect to see in a modern dev platform and/or are currently missing.

Such as:
- Vertex commands.
- Full physics.
- Asynchronous loading.
- OOP for those who need it.
- Missing useful commands from DarkBASIC Pro.
- Possibility to compile standalone executables.

Include:
- Besides BASIC-script and C++, add C# and Python, which are very popular and seen as professional(important feat).
Do this either by default or.. launch a separate AppGameKit Studio Pro version to generate more revenue to pay for it all. = $$$

- A Terrain, Scene and Character Editor(can be taken from GamGuru) plus a Shader Editor (can be taken from DarkBASIC - I've heard Paul did one there?).
This could also be a separate add-on or included in suggested AppGameKit Studio Pro. = $$$

- Easy multiplayer network features such as Unity Networking Portal.
Create a separate, more advanced add-on for massive multiplayer games, such as Photon Networking and perhaps host the server against a monthly fee? = $$$


And that's, my dear ladies and gentlemen, is how you'll have a guaranteed, big bucks making winner system at your hands .
Or as some might say:



Ideally I'd like to see all incorporated into one Studio, it might be bit too much at once.
For now we'll have to wait and see, keep fingers crossed they'll follow the logical path.
smallg
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2019 15:24
Quote: "is app game kit studio far enough in development that if I buy it right now can I migrate to it from agks from agk without having to redo everything or fight bugs constantly? also what is the future of agk mobile."

Studio is in early access so yes there will be bugs and constant updates... If you wanted to work on a proper project you should stick to agk classic for now.

It is a bit of an unlucky timing to have purchased agk classic but at the same time it is a very solid program and while you won't get any further updates it already is able to produce fully working projects. (At least for Windows and mobile - perhaps a few issues remain with Mac and html)... it's probably one of the more "complete" projects TGC have made so far (though I have only ever used it for hobby purposes).
life's one big game
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DavidAGK
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2019 15:34
Given that AppGameKit Studio is the logical successor to AGK2 (they even state it as such!), and is effectively AGK2 with more bells and whistles.... I think it would have been far better to have called it AGK3! Shows commitement to the same product, stops the understandible panic about whether AGK2 code would work on it etc. Changing the namnig makes no sense in my opinion!

Anyway... I reckon it's a great step forwards for TGC and its customers. They are very very reasonable in their pricing and ongoing support.

Done! Purchased the studio version for just £44! Bargain! No subscriptions (thank god!!!!) just a small one off fee for a really good tool that enables you to do so much!
Using Tier 1 AppGameKit V2
Started coding with AMOS (Thanks Francois Lionet)
CatfoodMcFly
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Posted: 4th Mar 2019 10:42
I've been using AppGameKit to make Steam games, and the real crunch for me is whether or not Studio will (at launch, or soon after) offer the ability to create Mac/PC standalone executables that don't leave all your assets in normal folders than people can just browse through, which is the case with AppGameKit at the moment. Is there any word on this functionality? If it turns out Studio will have this feature, I would buy it today.
Polaraul
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Posted: 4th Mar 2019 11:25
Thank you for all the replies.

If I were to purchase AppGameKit Studio it would have to be a major upgrade to AppGameKit , at the moment, and from what I am seeing, it just feels a little like a reskin of AppGameKit . I will hold off purchasing until AppGameKit Studio is a significant improvement over AppGameKit. Hopefully this will come sooner rather than later, as I can't see any new commands being added to AppGameKit .
fubarpk
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Posted: 4th Mar 2019 12:55
@CatfoodMcFly
The solution is to encrypt your files please see the bottom of this page
https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/222027?page=1
fubar

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