One night, a school mate of mine who had not found out that I'd "lost my faith" IM'd me...His name has been edited to "christian" to spare his identity. "John" is a friend of mine who's an atheist, and a well-known one around our school.
Quote: "(christian): ur not a christian??
HZence: no
HZence: i'm sorry
(christian): sorry to hear that
HZence: yeah i know i'm just going to hell.
(christian): that does sound inviting doesnt it
(christian): burning for eternity
(christian): sounds like a blast
HZence: you're a moron.
(christian): did john get to u
HZence: now i think you're even more of a moron.
HZence: no this has nothing to do with john.
HZence: ok let me correct myself.
HZence: you're not a moron.
(christian): y am i a moron
HZence: you're just confused.
(christian): no i am not
(christian): ur the confused one my friend
HZence: yeah i know, i don't have a clue.
HZence: well the way you just were describing hell, sounded like you were trying to scare me.
HZence: could be wrong.
HZence: just the way i took it.
(christian): i am just saying
(christian): if thats where i u want to go
(christian): i am sorry to hear taht
HZence: well that's peachy.
HZence: but what happens if there isn't a hell?
HZence: what happens if you're wrong?
(christian): what happens if there IS a hell
(christian): then so be it
HZence: i've already contemplated that for sixteen years of my life.
HZence: then i woke up.
HZence: because i considered that Christianity may be wrong.
(christian): all i know is that i believe that jesus christ is my savior and i will see him in heaven one day
HZence: that i might be brainwashed.
HZence: oh ok.
HZence: yeah you know that.
(christian): my proof is the bible
HZence: well maybe if you keep telling yourself that it will actually become true.
(christian): its all in there for u
HZence: oh ok.
HZence: how often do you read the bible?
(christian): i dunno
(christian): dude what happend to u
HZence: funny.
(christian): in 10th grade me and u were trying to get to john
(christian): and now u r just the same as him
HZence: *sigh*
HZence: i am not the same as john.
HZence: he is an atheist.
HZence: i am agnostic.
(christian): no u r def athiest
(christian): u r against god now
HZence: ...lol
HZence: i am not against god.
(christian): cuz u think it is brainwashed
HZence: you don't know what an atheist is
(christian): then y did u say its not true
HZence: i didn't say it wasn't true.
(christian): its somebody who doesnt beleive in God
HZence: i said what happens if it isn't true?
HZence: no
HZence: an atheist
(christian): well u r questioning him
(christian): thats just as bad as not beleiving hiim
HZence: atheist. break down the work.
HZence: atheist.
HZence: anti theist.
HZence: against theism.
HZence: against creationism.
HZence: against the theory that we were created.
(christian): so ur into evolution??
HZence: i am not an atheist.
HZence: NO
HZence: i just said i'm NOT an atheist
(christian): ok
(christian): y r u questioning God then
HZence: do you even know what it means to be agnostic?
(christian): u question things
(christian): like if there is a heaven or a hell
HZence: well.
HZence: here's the dictionary definition:
HZence: One who is skeptical about the existence of God.
HZence: that's me.
HZence: why am I a skeptic?
HZence: i woke up.
HZence: now back to what you were saying...
HZence: you're proof is the bible.
HZence: how do you know for a fact that it's all entirely true?
(christian): i have faith in it
(christian): so i beleive in
(christian): it
(christian): if i am wrong i am wrong
(christian): i dont question my faith
HZence: that's the problem.
HZence: anyway.
HZence: do you accept that there is a possibility that you are wrong?
(christian): nope
HZence: why not?
(christian): cuz
HZence: oh ok.
HZence: that explains it.
(christian): u just dont
(christian): i have no need to question it
(christian): i just know that one day i will rejoice in heaven
HZence: oh on the contrary...
HZence: you have no idea what your "faith" is holding you back from.
HZence: and by that, i don't mean "sin" or "worldly values".
HZence: there are so many more things you could be accomplishing.
HZence: but back to this bible issue.
HZence: have you read it from beginning to end?
(christian): all scripture is god-breathed
(christian): quote from the bible
(christian): so all the prophets who wrote the bible did it through god
HZence: interesting.
(christian): indeed
HZence: all of it is god-breathed huh?
(christian): yup
HZence: ok
HZence: well there's something you need to see then
HZence: just a sec...
HZence: lol sorry i'm taking long
(christian): its fine
HZence: ok.
HZence: Exodus 32:14 "And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."
(christian): that is relented not repented
HZence: ok
HZence: i just copied and pasted
HZence: so whoever typed it typed it wrong
HZence: Numbers 23:19 "God is not a man, that he should lie..."
HZence: compare these
(christian): i dont know where u r goin with these quotes
HZence: and tell me what you think.
HZence: just compare them
HZence: i understand because the version i'm looking at is a little confusing.
(christian): heres one for u
HZence: no no.
(christian): have u ever seen asia
HZence: you already gave me one.
HZence: you have to look at these
(christian): answer me
(christian): have u ever seen asia
HZence: no, who the hell cares, compare my verses.
(christian): then how do u know its there
HZence: because someone told me.
HZence: guess what?
HZence: they could be lying?
HZence: ever consider that?
(christian): ok
HZence: nah
HZence: of course not
HZence: why would they lie?
(christian): y would god lie about the bible
HZence: I didn't say God did.
HZence: i said there is a chance that people did.
HZence: anyway.
HZence: back to my verses.
(christian): it says that they did it through god
HZence: Numbers 23:19 "God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should repent. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfil it?"
Exodus 32:14 "And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do to his people."
HZence: now wait, lets look at these.
HZence: the first one clearly states that god doesn't change. not even his mind.
HZence: and the second one - what?
HZence: he changed his mind?
HZence: gee.
HZence: how the hell does that work?
(christian): just a sec
HZence: ok.
(christian): basically man r the ones that lie and man r the ones that change their mindes and god is not a man
HZence: so what?
(christian): and doesnt behave in the way a man does
HZence: that's not what those bible verses say!
HZence: they contradict each other
HZence: god CHANGED HIS MIND
HZence: GOD IS UNCHANGING
HZence: CON
HZence: TRA
HZence: DIC
HZence: TION
HZence: IN
HZence: THE
HZence: BIBLE!
HZence: well apparently he is like a man if he changed his mind.
HZence: either that.
HZence: or someone screwed up majorly.
(christian): the reas on y in the second one is moses sought the favor of the lord he prayed and interseeded for the people before the lord
(christian): he prayed for them
(christian): and god answered his prayer
(christian): and did not bring the thretened he had planed
(christian): because somebody prayed
(christian): and he answere their pray
HZence: that doesn't not change it from being a contradiction.
HZence: here.
HZence: let's stop this for one secon.d
(christian): it is def not a contradiction
(christian): 2 diff situations
HZence: oh but it is my friend.
(christian): u have to read the scriotures aroudn the scriprture
HZence: do you believe your God is omniscient?
(christian): or u could read it wrong
HZence: I KNOW
HZence: but those verses are CRYSTAL CLEAR
(christian): which u have done
HZence: now
HZence: NO
HZence: LOL
HZence: i didn't
HZence: those verses are so damn clear its ridiculous
HZence: and you ASSUMED i didn't read around them
HZence: totally.
HZence: now
HZence: do you believe your god is omniscient?
(christian): what does that mean
HZence: all knowing?
HZence: do you believe he is all knowing?
(christian): do u believer that?
(christian): believe*
HZence: hey, for all i know, he ISNT EVEN THERE.
HZence: this isn't about ME.
HZence: it's about YOU.
HZence: i am asking YOU a question
(christian): no
(christian): it is about u
HZence: do YOU believe that your god is all knowing
HZence: LOL
HZence: stop trying to weasle your way out of it
(christian): cuz u will answer for u in the end times
HZence: answer the question.
(christian): what r u chances against an all knowing god
HZence: oh
HZence: so you're saying you believe that he's all knowing then?
(christian): absolutely
HZence: ok
HZence: now listen
HZence: just listen
HZence: if god is all knowing
HZence: then he KNEW he wasn't going to destroy those people
HZence: he KNEW it was going to happen
HZence: that he wouldn't destory them
HZence: yet he said that he was going to anyway
HZence: which means he lied
HZence: OR
(christian): k
HZence: god changed his mind, which totally contradicts what christianity states.
HZence: either way
HZence: it doesn't make sense.
(christian): he answered the prayer
(christian): thats y he stopped
(christian): he listens so he allowed the prayer to be answered
(christian): did u hear the story of jonah
HZence: yeah
HZence: but listen
HZence: you said he changed his mind because he answered the prayer
HZence: ok
HZence: but
HZence: that means he changed his mind
HZence: so
HZence: at least one part of the bible HAS to be wrong
(christian): cuz he answeres prayers
HZence: SO IT'S WRONG
(christian): thats y he changed his mind
HZence: you're "proof" has a giant HOLE in it
(christian): well how bout u ask him if its wrong
HZence: .....?
HZence: yeah and i'm sure he'll anser me.
(christian): probably not cuz he doesnt exist for u
HZence: LOL
HZence: i didn't say he doesn't exist
(christian): u took him out of ur life
HZence: god
HZence: i said there's a change he doesn't exist
HZence: listen.
HZence: the last prayer i ever said was
(christian): well then there is no god if he doesnt exist
HZence: "God, if you're there, give me some kind of evidence, some kind of proof that you're there. Anything"
HZence: i'm still waiting
HZence: and you're so called proof isn't doing it for me
(christian): continue to wait
HZence: do i need to point something else out for you?
HZence: because i will
(christian): and continue to ask
HZence: I CAN'T JUST WAIT
HZence: i'm searching
HZence: which is why i'm having this argument with you
(christian): continue to search
(christian): dontgive up
HZence: but this certainly won't "bring me back to God" because you don't have any ground to stand on
HZence: everything you're telling me i've heard so many times before
HZence: it's funny
HZence: as a christian, everyone doesn't seem to care about you
HZence: but
HZence: suddenly when i lose my faith
HZence: so many christians are jumping to try and convert you
(christian): thats sad
(christian): if u think that
(christian): i care about u
HZence: think?
HZence: THINK?!
HZence: lol
HZence: it's experience
(christian): weather ur a christian or not
HZence: as a christian, OTHER CHRISTIANS DO NOT SEEM TO CARE ABOUT YOU....they never talk to you or anything or ask how you're life is
HZence: but then when i lost my faith
HZence: it seems like they want to jump down your throat
(christian): that tells u that the state of the church is not good
(christian): i am not talking about church
(christian): i am talking about a personnal relationship with god
(christian): alright
(christian): we will talk later
(christian): i gotta go
HZence: alright.
HZence: "go with god"
(christian): i will always talk to u about it
HZence: oh i'm sure you will
(christian): will do my friend
(christian): i will go with god
HZence: ok
(christian): later man
HZence: tell him i say hi.
HZence: yup
(christian): will do"
And later, the conflict was resolved...
Quote: "(christian): did i get to u at all?
HZence: what do you mean by "get to u"
(christian): like did i make u think
HZence: jordan...
HZence: don't take it personally...
HZence: but nothing you said was something new
HZence: all of your arguments were ones that I have heard before
(christian): ok
HZence: it was nothing that would totally "blow me away"
(christian): well i tried
(christian): in that case u made me feel like a bad christian
HZence: jordan
HZence: if it makes you feel any better
HZence: there's really no such thing as a good christian
HZence: or good atheist
HZence: or good human being
HZence: everyone has their faults
HZence: you didn't do anything wrong
(christian): i know
(christian): well it just bothered me
HZence: you did what you believed you ought to do, to the best of your knowledge
(christian): cuz all of a sudden u changed
(christian): but oh well
HZence: it wasn't all of a sudden
HZence: it was gradual
(christian): well it was to me
(christian): well
HZence: I didn't just wake up one day and decide to not be a Christian.
(christian): ididnt really talk to u tat much this year
(christian): and then i read ur info
HZence: what about my info?
HZence: the link?
(christian): yeah
(christian): what did u mean by john got in trouble for being an athiest
HZence: that was a joke.
(christian): ok
HZence: he got grounded for something
HZence: and then as a joke i said "that's what he gets for being an atheist"
(christian): oh
HZence: indeed
(christian): do u think u will ever become a christian again
HZence: I could
HZence: but who am I to say what will happen
(christian): yeah
(christian): i will pray for u
(christian): if that helps
HZence: if you believe that it will "help", by all means, pray
(christian): i will
(christian): u know what really pissed me off
(christian): when i was talkin to u earlier
(christian): john imed me and said that i am wrong so dont even bother
HZence: well
HZence: john's an atheist
(christian): yeah
HZence: but you see, you saying "i know i'm right" is the same as saying "i know you're wrong".
HZence: so how do you think tons of other people feel
(christian): i believe i am right
(christian): u dont agree
(christian): thats ok
(christian): we dont all beleive the same thing
HZence: well john believes he is right
HZence: and you don't agree
HZence: that's not ok
HZence: because those who share your beliefs don't seem to leave him alone
HZence: now they do
HZence: now that he's become openly atheistic
HZence: before people kept preaching to him
HZence: and he got sick of it
HZence: that's one reason why he's so openly against religion
(christian): yeah
(christian): i can tell
(christian): were u being sarcastic when u said "go with god"
HZence: i was being totally sarcastic
(christian): i though so
(christian): did u ever talk to ur pastor about it
(christian): i am sure he could help
HZence: yeah.
HZence: a lot.
(christian): even if u r not a christian
HZence: had a huge long conversation with him.
(christian): really
(christian): how did it go
HZence: well
HZence: i just told him the grips i had with the church
HZence: *gripes
HZence: our church specifically
HZence: and what it came down to was
HZence: we disagreed
(christian): oh
HZence: yeah.
(christian): so u just gave up
HZence: on what?
HZence: the church?
HZence: or christianity
(christian): talkin to ur pastor
HZence: no
HZence: he was the pastor on duty
HZence: so he got a phonecall from a guy
HZence: and i had to go
(christian): oh
(christian): did u ever think about talkin to him more
HZence: yes
HZence: i haven't had time though
HZence: he's been gone
(christian): o
(christian): well thats good u r wanting to talk to him
HZence: i do
HZence: i'm not closed minded
HZence: i like to hear both sides
(christian): yeah
(christian): so were still cool right
HZence: jordan
HZence: i have no reason to hold that against you
(christian): ok good
HZence: haha.
HZence: i'm agnostic...not a moron
HZence: lol
(christian): lol
(christian): ur easier to talk to then john
HZence: how so
(christian): i dunno
(christian): john has been like this for a long time
(christian): and he like studied the bible
(christian): for false things
HZence: well yeah
HZence: but he was a christain
HZence: i don't how long he was a christian for
HZence: that can actually make a big difference
(christian): yeah
(christian): well i am goin to bed
(christian): goodnight man
HZence: night"
Well, I said plenty of wrong & stupid things just like him. I just want to know what you guys think....tell me what I said wrong, etc.
Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant