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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Earning a living using AGK

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Pfaber1
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Posted: 18th Aug 2019 17:55
Are you earning a living out of AppGameKit classic or studio ? And would you have any tips on how this is done .
Xaby
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Posted: 19th Aug 2019 11:10
You could say, that App Game Kit is only a tool like a hammer.
You could also ask, if you could earn a living out of Word, Blender, Photoshop, Excel etc.
It would be the same with Unreal Engine, Unity, Android Studio, Game Maker Studio, and every other game engine or programming language. Depends on your skills, I guess. Or what your goal is.
You could create tools and games with it. But you would have to publish your work somewhere or ask for a company, if they use App Game Kit or so.
Could you earn a living with a DSLR or a notebook? And in the case of "living" that depends how your needs are.

Did you created a game or a tool? You could upload it to itch.io, Google Playstore or Steam, etc.

Your question is a little bit generic, I guess. To have some friends, who support you in the long run also on a real life social level are a great start. Creating games is not an easy task for some days or weeks. It could take years.
So your product may need some time till it is finished. So in this time you would need some financal support. Maybe a job, where you work half time or only some days of the week. Or you keep your cost of living down.
I guess, what you are asking here is, how you create a complete business. But that is not specific to App Game Kit Studio or Classic.

You could deside, to create a Kickstarter compain. But you would have something to show the audience before. Some pictures, a plan, how to develop your game and so on.
So a good start is, to showcase your work, you have done allready.
Pfaber1
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Posted: 19th Aug 2019 13:18
Good afternoon Xaby and an interesting answer. I suppose what I was looking for was an indie developer who has probably been developing for a while and was making a few hundred a week out of Itch.io or play store as a model on how to be successful . I'm hoping that in the next year or so to be in that position. At the moment I publish my games for free but am hoping to have some what I would call good enough to sell in the next year. I've been at this now for about 18 months and like to think I've got the basics down although I'll probably still be learning for years. Every new game has it's own unique problems to overcome . I currently publish my games on itch.io and have also tried game jolt . Itch.io gives me the most downloads I also have a website with links to all my games . Anyway if someone who has made it would like to share their story it would be most interesting.
CJB
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Posted: 19th Aug 2019 14:17
If you already have a few freebie games published, why not add a little banner ad to those and see what you get out of it... you might be surprised!
Pfaber1
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Posted: 19th Aug 2019 14:54
That sounds like an idea. I will look into this to see how it's done . Thanks for the suggestion.
Kevin Cross
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Posted: 19th Aug 2019 19:03
My app makes about a £100+ a week from in-apps alone on Google Play. I don't check App Store that regularly but it's typically less. From ads, about £1 a day (just a simple Google banner at the bottom). I had Chartboost video ads that had countless impressions every day but over a year or so I probably made about $14 total so removed it completely. It seemed broken to me. I'm not making a living from it unfortunately, but that's not fault of AGK. Still having to hold down a full time day job.
OryUI - A WIP AGK2 UI Framework
GaborD
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Posted: 20th Aug 2019 01:07 Edited at: 20th Aug 2019 01:09
You could pick one smaller not too crowded niche and focus on it, hopefully over time you gain some name recognition with players of that genre and the consistency of your sales will improve. You can then branch out once you have a marketing budget, experience and contacts.
Just putting out random stuff and waiting for the one lucky punch (which most devs never get) is very risky in the currently extremely oversaturated market.
You can also try to find contract work in related fields (marketing/promo/websites/etc), this will let you train your skillset while making decent money. Takes pressure off your own game projects (in terms of having to pay for the bills) and you still get to make games and game-ish apps for a living. I just used AppGameKit on a project for a big company, the engine is certainly up to the task. (but don't limit yourself to just a few tools, flexibility helps a lot).
Pfaber1
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Posted: 20th Aug 2019 09:02
Hey that's pretty good Kevin. So the play store might be the direction to head in. I've got a couple of free games on Itch.io and I get the odd download . Nothing to write home about but just testing the water . Over the next 12 months I intend to release a couple more and am hoping they will be good enough to put a small fee on . We'll see I suppose . Thanks for the response .
EdzUp
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Posted: 21st Aug 2019 04:12
Every artist suffers for their passion don't expect to be a millionaire overnight, keep at it and one day you may make a living or it will stay as a hobby it's really upto you
-EdzUp
Xaby
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Posted: 21st Aug 2019 08:49 Edited at: 21st Aug 2019 09:36
It is about the movie industry, but in some cases this could also be true for video games in some kind.
But video games are a little bit different. No cinema, no need for a TV. The kind of games are also different on smartphones, consoles and PC, I guess.
E.g. Point and Adventures are best on the PC, on the Smartphone and Tablet maybe more like hidden object or match 3 games. And on consoles, Platformers, Beat'm'Ups and so on.



Also the problem with "Indie" is, what you need is the marketing in some form. And if you do it yourself, you have not the time, to create your games.
And if you let do it others, maybe it is like you would have a publisher.

Or you are not anymore a single developer, doing all the things alone. Maybe it is like in the music industry, are you playing the guitar and singing and self-promote yourself, or do you have a band and a manager.

No matter how you want to do it, you could not hide from everybody. And you have to publish someday. It is like an exibition, if you are a photographer.

Also the scope for your first projects are important. Maybe at first, you are looking for games, that only would take you 3 hours in the core mechanic. You could add some more details, and soon as you look around, you are sitting 3 days on your project and it grows.
After two weeks, you may have something, that is worth showing to the public.

You also could think about special niche, like lerning apps for kids, or games for the government. In some countries it is also possible to get some funding for your idea.
In Germany e.g.
https://www.fff-bayern.de/de/foerderung/foerderbereiche.html

Or games.de
https://www.game.de/games-foerderung/

You could also try, to send your game to a contest. But sometimes, you lose some publishing rights with that also.
Microsoft, Intel, Amazon, or Epic Games do sometimes contests. And you also could try, to get an award like
https://deutscher-computerspielpreis.de/

Example from Microsoft, 2014
https://imaginecup.microsoft.com/de-de/Competition/1001

Intel with AppUp Store Contest 2012
https://www.codeproject.com/Competitions/598/The-Windows-8-Ultrabook-App-Innovation-Contest.aspx

And there are some more stores you could publish, like nVidia Shield TV Store, Amazon FireTV Store, AndroidTV Store

Not every game has to be in the Google Playstore
https://indiegamesshowcase.withgoogle.com/europe/#winners

But finishing your game would be the first step. You could have Twitter or Discord and post some progress, to build a little community around your work, because often these contests are depending on votings from your community.
http://contest.gamedevfort.com/
But some contests also want you to use there specific engine or assets or something like that. Or publish in there store.

You said, that you published something on itch.io, maybe something like that could be your next step.
https://itch.io/jam/igmc2018

But I don't know, what about the publishing rights, if you could give up on some royalties or so.

You could also decide, to try the ludumdare JAM, if your idea and content may fit to the theme of the Ludum Dare contest. In a JAM you could also use code from before and assets and so on. So you are not tide to strict rules.
https://ldjam.com/

Also in some bigger cities often are some game jams, where you could show your games. Or have a meeting with some publisher. At the gamescom in Cologne e.g. is also an Indie Booth.
https://www.gameswirtschaft.de/gamescom/indie-arena-booth-2019-volunteers/

But that is more public, and I guess, a game would need some waight to it. Some special idea, some unique graphic style, some fun mechanic and so on.

You also could think about Steam Early Access, or creating something in your game for Twitch. Some "random" stuff. So that your game would be a content creation tool for the Twitchers and YouTubers.

If you look at your game as ART, the publishing posibilities are nearly the same as in photgraphs and or movies or other art forms like dancing, music, sculting and so on.

So is it possible, to make a living out of it? Yes. But it depends, what kind your game is and what your target audience is. For point and click Adventure Games e.g. there are special boards, where you could get intouch with the moderators and they would help you promoting your game.
https://www.adventure-treff.de/

Also, if you want to create a game for the OUYA, there some people, who are interested in new games for the OUYA. Also some YouTubers show off the niche games.
You could also decide, to make somethink like a Raspberry Pi "exclusive" game. And your game would be tide up with the Raspberry Pi or something like that.

I guess, at first, you have to focus on your own idea. And in the next step, you could watch out, if in your country, town, near you, are some conventions or maybe also some store owners, who want to have a game on there website for a promotion.
App Game Kit can do also Web-HTML5-games. You also could decide, to create a tiny tutorial app like a video help for something special. AppGameKit can playback video on Android. So depends, where your focus is.

AR, VR, Touch, Networking, Browser, 2D, 2.5D, 3D, you are not limited by App Game Kit.
fubarpk
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Posted: 21st Aug 2019 09:27
Quote: "You also could think about special niche, like lerning apps for kids, or games for the government. In some countries it is also possible to get some funding for your idea"

I did have interviews etc with a company producing educational games once about a game called alphabet mah-jong made in db pro they were very interested just the deal they offered me
wasn't exactly what I had in mind. So I stayed Solo lol in those days there wasn't the outlets to share code like there is now so hence I made it free and didn't make anything apart from some
games packs of several db games ide made being sold on ebay but really that wasn't worth the effort and still get the odd email about old game productions.

I think today the way to profit is in free games with people making in app purchases perhaps with paid advertising banners etc both of which I kinda disapprove of for my stuff but that's where
the money seems to get made. you could also offer a different version that removes these adds for a small fee.
fubarpk
fubarpk on Itch...………...https://fubarpk.itch.io/
fubarpk on googleplay..https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=fubarpk
Xaby
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Posted: 21st Aug 2019 09:45
@fubarpk

We had some distructing in the internet network over the past last weeks in Berlin, Germany and a lot of the stuff didn't work. Not only the telephone, but with not having internet, also Netflix, Amazon Prime and XBox Game Pass where not working.
Also the games that needed an Update to run didn't work.

And that was an interesting experience. Also the OUYA servers where shutdown some weeks ago and this year also the Nintendo Wii Shop closet its door's, and last year Microsoft Music or such.
Did Apple give up on iTunes Music or so also?

So here in Germany, in Berlin, there are also vinyl records are selling. Books made out of paper. What I am trying to say is, that there is a group of people, that don't want to have all things online. That is maybe, why the Nintendo Switch is on a (killing) spree.
Also old cardridges are not dead. SEGA MegaDrive / Genesis, Dreamcast, C64 and so on, are getting some attention. So maybe, having an offline game, that is solid, that could stand the time, could be a thing.

Also with Google Stadia, maybe more and more people want to invest in classic offline games, to collect or keep them.
Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 21st Aug 2019 13:29
adds about 0.5-6 gbp a month.
itch io total of 30 gbp.
No i cant make a living out of that
Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 21st Aug 2019 13:31 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2019 09:09
No , I am not currently earning a living from the apps I have developed using AGK. (none have ads or in-app purchases)
However, my simple lifestyle would allow me to say YES to the question if my earnings were equal to what Kevin is making off of his single App.

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
Xaby
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2019 09:53
I guess, what you could consider to make a living out of an indie game, when it is in development or so, could be something like Patreon.

https://www.patreon.com/peninja/overview

But mostly not the engine is "a problem", or your programming language, more the content of your game. If your art style looks nice, not too generic and your game has a value for others.
But I guess, that is for all games and products the same.

You could also consider, to create 3D, 2D and sound and sell it on the App Game Kit / Game Guru Store. But that would be more like a content creation and not programming in the most parts.
I think, if you would make a game like a series with episodes, you could evolve your game step by step. I guess, that is the reason, why Assassin's Creed and Call of Duty are comming nearly every year on the market.
Or constantly evolving games like "No Man's Sky", or Kerbal Space Program and so on. Minecraft was also evoling over time.

-> a website for your game
-> a community
-> constant updates
-> with your key users, you could spread your player base

I guess, to generate a living out of that, you would need to create your own engine, maybe with App Game Kit as base and every three month, you would publish a new "game".

The gameplay has to be solid, and the game could be simple, but has to be some potential to go viral or you would have to look for a publisher.


Panda Hero on Steam, no comments
https://store.steampowered.com/app/981980/Panda_Hero/?l=german
But has a publication on the Nintendo Switch
https://www.amazon.de/Panda-Hero-Nintendo-Switch/dp/B07HP4NJWF

So it is on you, what you are targetting. Most game publishers only change there "assets". But that was also in the days back from NES, SEGA MasterSystem and so on. Where the gameplay was nearly the same. Some sprites, some items, some monsters, but the theme was another.
tboy
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2019 15:35
Placing ads in games is a disaster, I am firmly against that business model.

I don't agree with in-app purchases either but in some ways it's no different to installing an expansion pack.

It seems harsh but if you have a decent game people will play it and will often tell other people about it.

Don't worry about making money at first, create a game because you want to create, anything else is a bonus!

Kevin Cross
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2019 17:06
I used to hate ads in games, but have grown to understand why developers put them in, I just hate the ones that put full screen video ads that happen every 20 seconds and after every end of life etc. Never had a problem with in-apps. I tend not to buy consumables myself. You will probably have more luck making money with in-apps though then putting up a game with a sale price, especially if you're starting out and haven't got a fanbase for your games or apps. That's a personal opinion and not based on any factual data.
OryUI - A WIP AGK2 UI Framework
Pfaber1
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Posted: 24th Aug 2019 12:45
All my games are free at the moment I'm thinking maybe a bit of polish and I could sell one or two of them . We'll see . Don't like the idea of advertising or in app purchases would sooner sell the game and have free updates for the foreseeable. across all my games I've had about 50 downloads in the last year. I average one download to 3 views which I find not too bad . It's getting that million views that's the hard part . I guess a game could be out there for two years and then suddenly go viral. Might take a look at doing some educational software for when I'm between games . Thanks for all the replies .
Xaby
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Posted: 27th Aug 2019 08:06
@Pfaber1

because of personal interest, I would suggest you, to update one of your games, which you like the most to gamepad / controller support. And join the OUYA discord.
The OUYA supports Android 4.1 and OpenGL ES 2.0. At the moment there are about 700 users very active in the discord and growing.
Some of them also have youtube channels with some tousend subs. So if we are talking about 50 downloads, I guess, it could be done, to have these downloads alone with the OUYA community.

The next questions you could ask yourself, what do you need for living and how "fast" could you create a good game or update for your game.

Some math, if you would have 5000 downloads / year, and you would earn about 10,- $ per download, that could be enough.
If your game is more like some fun inbetween, maybe you more targeting something like that:



I guess, you have to concentrate on one game at first. And if that sells well, people would be interested also in your other work.
I guess, that is why the big publishers try to have not too much unique games at the same time in ther advertisment chain.

12 months, 5000/12 ~ 420. 420 / 30 ~ 14. That are about 14 copies of your game at a win of 10,- $ so in the Steamstore that would be about 15,- $ for sale.
Or you target only 3,- $ per copy, but that would be 5 times the amount you would need. And the cost of promotion per game has to be lower.

I guess, at a price point of 15,- $ you could say maybe, half a day you would create assets, program and the other half, you sell a game in person.
The game copy is now your product.

Half a day, 4 hours. So 14 copies in 4 hours. ~ 4 games an hour, about 1 game every 15 min.

Can you sell one copy of your game in 15 min.? You could pitch a trailer, you could use these 15 min. to post something into facebook, discord, reddit, twitter.
You could use these 15 min. to create a website for your game. Some screenshots, some text.

Do you have a close friend, who would buy your game for 15,- $? Or would they buy it more like for 3,- $?

Normaly the conversion rate is about 3% for most products. So if you want to have 5000 sales a year, that means, that you would need 166,666 ~ 200,000 impressions.
I guess, if my game would be finished, I would ask some 40k view instagram model, if she could post some link to my youtube-trailer.
I guess, 40K instagram models don't do it for money at this point. And you also could do a Kickstarter, not for your game itself, but to show your game and also see, how the response is.
Even if your game is finished at that moment, you could create a Kickstarter and advertise that campaign.

I guess, at first, you would need to show us your itch.io-Link and or change your signiture, so the people could see, what you have done. To be shy at this point would be a challenge, if you want to promote your work.
Battoad
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Posted: 27th Aug 2019 13:05 Edited at: 27th Aug 2019 13:19
Hi all including TGC and Alistair(Hands on Books),

I think TGC have missed a trick, well so far, in that most indies would either like to make a living or at least a few notes.

This thread doesn't really cover the "how" this is done. There are several ways to try to implement your app with the tools to make money but as already said it won't make anything without the downloads. However the implementation of the "money tools" could be documented and exampled to help all. This is where I think TGC are missing out, even modest potential app sales could be a selling point of AppGameKit C/AGK S which TGC seem to have overlooked.

Unfortunately I don't think a thread like this is the best place to post this type of information as it could end up being fragmented and difficult to find.
However there is a thread "Tutorial Guides" and Alistair produces excellent books covering other areas.

Could this help be made for all in one easy to find place ?
Xaby
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Posted: 31st Aug 2019 07:07
@Pfaber1

to make your ideas shown to a bigger audience, maybe something like these game jams are something to consider


winning or getting into the top 100 or top 20 could be also a good reference.
fubarpk
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Posted: 31st Aug 2019 08:48
they look awesome @Xaby and only 48 hours
fubarpk
fubarpk on Itch...………...https://fubarpk.itch.io/
fubarpk on googleplay..https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=fubarpk

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