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AppGameKit Studio Chat / Compile to Sega Genesis feature?!

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3Dsimulant
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Joined: 29th Mar 2019
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Posted: 18th Aug 2019 19:40
Since the Megadrive Flashback has a SD-Card Slot, some Homebrew would be great to see.

I've no idea how much effort it is, but maybe with a reduced 2D Command Set people can create a little scrolling game?
Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 18th Aug 2019 22:26
I think megadrive games are assembler and the time for tgc to do it nead to earn them cash .
But would be cool.
Xaby
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
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Posted: 28th Aug 2019 13:50
@3Dsimulant

I guess, it would be easier to export to the XBox (Classic), XBox 360, XBox One or SEGA DreamCast.

I guess, to only make MegaDrive / Genesis games, it would be to specific. I guess, it would be possible to write some kind of Bytecode generator with the MemBlock-Functions that makes MegaDrive binaries / ROMs somehow.
But I don't see, why it would be an export, when there are more hardware is out, where we also could export to like the Nintendo Switch, NES / SNES Classic Mini, Playstation Classic

Also you would need a device with internet to download the game somehow, so the MegaDrive / Genesis would not be your only device. Don't you guys have a phone?

Maybe it has to be something like that:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1316851183/nesmaker-make-nes-games-no-coding-required?lang=de
http://trollburner.thenew8bitheroes.com/the-tools.html
3Dsimulant
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Joined: 29th Mar 2019
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Posted: 8th Sep 2019 09:06
Thanks for your opinions guys, but for sure a Genesis ‚Output‘ Addon should be sold for some bucks like 30€.

I dont know about MemBlock binary generation but sounds interesting.

The Idea is to make personalised Games or Adventures for Kids or People who are not able to deal with technical things.
People who Switch on and select a Game but don‘t know how to configure a new Controller! It just have to work.
I think about Kindergarten, handycaped, retired, giving braintrainings by Games with easy and cheap and robust Hardware.
(Genesis don’t need internet therefore)

So if someone is able to create, you‘re welcome.
Pfaber1
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Posted: 8th Sep 2019 11:31
I would really prefer if they made an export for the current consoles like PS4 and xBoxOne . Now that would be awesome and could be a nice little earner . If they can do it for Android then I don't see why not .
I currently produce for PC and Android don't bother so far with Linux or Mac as don't have those machines . I think the consoles could be a big earner though and possibly double my download count or maybe more.
If you're reading this TGC please consider it . I should imagine you already have and due to licensing or something have decided not to pursue it. Phones are really cool though . Keep up the good work.
c0d3r9
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Posted: 8th Sep 2019 14:03
Why not? TGC have not a big team. Actually i think its a one man show
And so...more targets more work...
Laptop: Win10@64bit - i3 2x2Ghz - 8GB Ram - 1TB HDD
Desktop: Win10@64bit - AMD Ryzen 5 2400G - MSI B450 Tomahawk - 8GB Ram - 240GB SSD
Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 8th Sep 2019 15:45 Edited at: 8th Sep 2019 15:51
I would rather see TGC delve into hardware and make a console for AppGameKit games. That would be ideal for Linux or Rasberry Pi builds since the other OS's for PC's are license restricted. Android makes a nice platform for making your own console. Not really following the idea of making this export to legacy technologies to focus towards a remake console. Sure, it would be cool to make cartridge games for Sega Genesis, but not sure if that would be economically viable in the long run considering the effort it would take. Sure, a lot of little kids are playing games on those things, but they will grow out of that as fast as they learn to use a tablet.

A home made console designed for wireless networking for a LAN, so you could have more than just a two person split screen multiplayer game would be awesome. Something like 8, or more, players using their android devices for controllers and First person views, with a big screen monitor (TV) for spectator world map overview of all the action. I would like that setup better than exporting to a retro console. Add a few new commands to play nice with the hardware, make an adapter for the SD cards so they look like old school cartridges, and DREAMING DEVELOPERS BATMAN!

HD is not needed, but VR is desired. Build a new console for multiplayer Virtual Reality , and the efforts will be towards the new technologies, not the old ones.

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
Zigi
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Posted: 8th Sep 2019 16:22
Quote: "I would rather see TGC delve into hardware and make a console for AppGameKit games."


Getting in to the console market is not that easy. Of course there are ways to develop the hardware using single board computers like the Raspberry Pi and there is Android and Linux to use for the OS but the difficult part is that to make people buy your console instead of one of those cheap Chinese knock offs that runs a bunch of emus and filled with tons of games out of the box illegally or spend a little more and get an old generation PS, Xbox, Nintendo or Sega console.
I mean,
PS1
PS2
PS3
Xbox
Xbox360
Nintendo GameCube
Nintendo Wii
Sega Dreamcast
PSP
PSP2
Gameboy
..etc
But even old series of current gen consoles like PS4 and Xbox One
You can pick up these systems and the games pretty cheap from second hand (though the prices are going up for some of the old "soon classic" and rare ones) not to mention the Chinese NES and Sega knock off systems and Android consoles running a bunch of emus that you can buy for 10 bucks.
So how could any new game console compete with all that?

Retro graphics and titles, done.
Uber realistic 3D graphics and titles, done.
VR titles, done.
On the go, in the living room, done
Cloud gaming, play on any device, done.

So what an AppGameKit console could potentially offer to players?
Even the new Atari console struggling with the release for the above reasons, have been postponed and the hardware have been redesigned 3 times already. I don't even know when the next release day is scheduled now.
But if everything is going to be true, the new Atari console going to be open to anyone for development so that is going to be done is well. But the Ouya did try that before and it was not enough.
Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 8th Sep 2019 23:31 Edited at: 8th Sep 2019 23:46
Quote: "So what an AppGameKit console could potentially offer to players?"

Everything that a retro console could/can not.
That's the point of what I was saying.
The main thing it would offer is a stable console for future development for AppGameKit and TGC, rather than being dependent on what other companies decide to do with their product.

An AppGameKit console could have its network configured to simplify that process for users.
An out of the box, plug and play, setup for 8+ players would be nice, right?
Especially if done with less than top end graphics card to reduce cost and compete in the market.
What do any of the new consoles offer over the old ones other than better graphics and larger file capacity for the new graphic requirements?


Better question is... what can a retro console offer that AGK's existing exports don't already?

Offering an export to a new console with new technologies would be better development, in my opinion, than working to export to a console that was obsolete 20 + years ago but making a comeback to a few devote fans by a company looking for a quick buck, which is all the retro consoles are. The old fans just want to dust off their cartridge collection in the closet, since the old hardware stopped working for them over a decade ago, and now they have a chance to do just that with the retro console. Considering development of new games for retro consoles is like Porsche coming out with a new car based on the old design of the Volkswagen Beetle. Good luck with that, especially if it is electric . Sure, it has all been done, and I am not saying that you have to offer something new, just saying that the latter technologies are a better focus of development for the future instead of development to relive the past. These "time machine consoles" of late are a hoax. Don't get me wrong though, if Paul were to make such an export for AppGameKit, then I would go get one of those retro consoles just to make a game for it (and to dust off my cartridge collection).

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
3Dsimulant
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Posted: 9th Sep 2019 10:39
Ok, I see the effort isn't worth this old console, thanks for open my eye.

Two Cheap solutions should work (better).

1. I'm far away from Android, but today I see Android TV Boxes that are fast enough to play 16bit style platform/scrolling games. (AppGameKit' too?)

2. Otherwise a Custom Console can be built up with a Raspi Linux Gamelaunching System, but customizing Linux is another mysterium...

cdoty
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Posted: 16th Sep 2019 02:20
It's working for me. Did you enable blast processing?
Xaby
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Posted: 16th Sep 2019 14:07
I often tried to convince someone here, to help me with SNES classic mini, NES classic mini, Playstation Classic mini, and also the support for Raspberry Pi and the OUYA in this board is not as high, as I would like it to be.

There are about ~ 1000 people on Discord, who are loving the OUYA and also have an OUYA.

To be able to export to Windows Universal Platform, we can use App Game Kit Tier 2 C++. But C++ is also not as well documented and has not as much examples. Also the initial setup is not as simple with there templates we have to modify and so on.

So what we could do to make App Game Kit 2 more popular, we also would have to use more the C++ part of the API, I guess.

So let's say, there are about 4 mio. SNES / NES mini classic consoles, and maybe 1/2 mio. Playstation classic mini consoles out there and in use. Mostly are used hacked and for emulators.
And the problem with the OUYA is nearly the same, the offical support was shutdown. And for Raspberry Pi Zero / 3 / 4, there are often conflicts with newer OS-images or rights management and also some OpenGL issues because of the VideoCore4 inside the single board computer.

And all of these "consoles" have the problem, that non of them has a store like Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft or Valve have.

And also these consoles are more for people who don't want to use the internet, if they not have to. That is the charme of these retro consoles like the C64 and so on. But that also means, you would have to release your game physicly.

Also many of the Nintendo Switch games from indie game developers only have about 2500 cardridges, also if the downloads are much higher. And the next problem would be, to release a game, that is worth the release. Games with value. Not only a clone of pong, or some test or demo, or a prototype, but a real game, that has a playtime for some hours, has a unique visual style and so on.

And marketing would be a complete other thing.

But if someone of us would create a game in 2D with App Game Kit Tier 2 C++, I guess, it could be possible, to transform that into SDL, or some other libs and also convert it for SEGA Dreamcast or XBox classic.

I guess, we all could try the following:

OUYA (Android, console like, with a helpful community), hardware can be found for about ~ 25,- $ including controller, supported directly in AppGameKit with Tier 1 Basic, and with Android Studio or Visual Studio it is possible to use Tier 2 C++ and export that to the OUYA
a little bit more complex, but do-able, maybe with some more investment:
XBox One (S)
I guess, for about ~ 150,- $ or less. And this console could be switched to DevKit-mode and you can try your apps / games there, without the need for a paying fee like for iOS and Apple.
Also releasing on Itch.io would be possible for free, but is PC
maybe "SteamBox" with Linux, or what, with 100,- $ fee for Steam.

And it would be also possible, to get a DevKit from Nintendo for a little bit more than the price of the Nintendo Switch, but you have to have a game in the first place.

It is also free, to become a Nintendo Developer and for a fee you could buy a Nintendo 3DS DevKit or Nintendo WiiU DevKit. They are not as cheap as the other ways, but if you have your game in C++, it is compatible with there SDK and you could compile it for these consoles.

The thing with the MegaDrive / Genesis is, that you mostly would give your game away for free and or would sell it on Steam in combination with an Open Source emulator.

Also there are tools around for Home Brew, and the other thing is, that the consoles before the DreamCast mostly where very specific in there architecture.
Mostly games at this time also where converted by hand. Some routines had to be written again in another assembler and so on.
Also Sprites back than where very specific in size and color for each sonoles. And how many at the same could be displayed and so on. So also a conversion of a game, mostly was a new game, that maybe looked kind of familiar.

That is also the big benefit from the Nintendo Switch, PS4, XBox One, that the hardware is nearly a PC with a GPU from the PC. So you don't have to think about color palletes, you know, you have 24+8 (32), you also know, that your Screen can have 1920 x 1080, and that you don't have to could the lines and milliseconds for some screen flipping for timing. They have multiple cores and can do things in parallel. They can decode JPEG, PNG and MP4 and so on, they can playback MP3 and so on.

On the MegaDrive and the Super Nintendo the music was completly different. So you would have to compose new songs and so on.
I guess, if the games where made from a hand full of people in a few month, that could be done by hand. But know we have games, and also the costumer maybe would like to have those, that are made over years by more than a couple of people. So you could not convert the games anymore by hand or do this effort for every platform.

Also the question would be: Why?
Don't you have phones?

If you make a game, would you like to show it to the most people possible, or to a niche?
And does this niche only have this one channel?

The game collectors on YouTube like MetalJesus, JohnHancock and GameSack and so on, they have mostly all consoles. They would like to see your game on the MegaDrive, but they would be able to play it also on Steam.
Other people, who don't have all the consoles, and only have the MegaDrive and no internet, they also would never be able to play your specific MegaDrive game, because they don't know even, that it exists.

GameStop is or was shutting down, so even then, you would have to create a cardridge and make enough real hardware to sell it in these stores.

A lot of the OUYA games e.g. transitioned to Steam and or Android Playstore. Some made it to the nVidia Shield, some to AndroidTV.

What you could do, to make your game easyer for a convertion is, to have maybe 320 x 200, reduce your pixel art in the colors from the beginning and only use a handfull of sprites.
So it would look like a MegaDrive game in the first place, but it also could run later like that on real hardware. You have the assets, the sprites, maybe the sound effects and the gameplay logic.

This is a big amount on work you allready have done. So to convert that to real hardware, you maybe only need to re-write some of the 2D commands. Depending on how complex your game is, that could be done in some weeks, I guess.

You could create your game first for the PC and after you have something to show, you could search in the retro-boards, discord, facebook groups, and make maybe a Kickstarter and you will see, how much interest is there.
And if there is enough intereset, you could convert your game completly or pay someone who could do it.

Or you have to look into the homebrew scene and ask there for help and the right tools.
Xaby
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Posted: 16th Sep 2019 15:00 Edited at: 16th Sep 2019 15:53
Half-Life 1:

3DS


Playstatin classic


SNES mini classic


and that we could do with FPSC Classic open source assets

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