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metamorpho
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Posted: 31st Aug 2019 15:57 Edited at: 31st Aug 2019 17:18
Hello to all !!

Thanks to everyone who helped me master the AppGameKit on this forum.
Here is one of my first projects at the AGK.




https://store.steampowered.com/app/1138150/Fiery_catacombs/?beta=0


Fiery Catacoms is a platformer and adventure in which the main character fell into the
ancient catacombs and now he needs to find a way out of them.
To stay alive, the player will need to avoid numerous traps and solve difficult puzzles in ancient catacombs.
On the way, you can grab various treasures of an ancient tribe, but this is not necessary.
To find a way out of the catacombs, the player will need logic, reaction and a good memory.
You do not know what the next step will bring you, each next step may be a surprise !!
There are blocks in the catacombs, if you step on them, a secret will open or a trap will work.
It’s better not to step on blocks with traps, remember them and in the next attempt to jump over this block.
Various mechanical guards guard treasures, a meeting with them is undesirable.
Some of them can be jumped over, some can be blocked using a block.
Be alert, then you will reach the exit !!

● 20 levels in each of which its own traps and secrets
● collecting treasures, some of them are hidden
● solving various tangled puzzles
● atmosphere of ancient catacombs
george++
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Posted: 31st Aug 2019 20:14
Well done!
Excelent work
Captain Ouais
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Posted: 31st Aug 2019 22:21
Good and nice work !
I do what i do !!!
JLMoondog
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Posted: 31st Aug 2019 23:54
Well done sir! Game looks like allot of fun, reminds me of the ole' duke nukem style plateform games, just better looking. You have a sale once it's released, it seems tomorrow?

Good luck!
CJB
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Posted: 1st Sep 2019 21:17
Good work metamorpho. Congratulations on the release!
blink0k
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Posted: 1st Sep 2019 21:20
Wow! Looks great
Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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GaborD
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2019 20:51
Very nice! I like the style.
Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2019 00:38
Really nice. Beautifully done. Especially liked the movable stones, and a lot could be done with those for map design options. .

My only suggestions, after watching the video , is to have different sounds for the jump from the swing, and maybe multiple sounds for the swing.
Hearing that single sound over and over again eventually go to me, but maybe that is just me, anyway, that is my only suggestion.

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
DavidAGK
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Posted: 4th Sep 2019 12:07
Looks fantastic! Really polished. Great to see another good game created in AGK. One for the gallery for definite. I'm curious why you've set the price point so low? £1.69 feels too cheap for me.

I see from your site that you've coded a bunch of games - is this a full time job or just a hobby?
Using Tier 1 AppGameKit V2
Started coding with AMOS (Thanks Francois Lionet)
metamorpho
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Posted: 6th Sep 2019 12:46
Thank you all for the good reviews about the game !!

Conjured, thanks for the advice about the monotonous sounds, I’ll take into account in the future.

DavidAGK, I set the price low because for the first time I myself am publishing a game on Steam and do not really understand the prices.
Somewhere I read the advice that simple games should be set inexpensively - at about the same price as I installed.
Yes, on my site there are several games written by me on Blitz3D and it was a hobby. But now there is a goal to make the creation of games their work.

In Steam, there reviews that the game control is inconvenient, now I’m thinking how to fix it.

If someone else will have tips on what I could improve in the game, I will be glad to hear them.
PSY
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Posted: 6th Sep 2019 18:02
Looks really nice.
Just like a mix of Rick Dangerous, Schloss Schreckenstein and Spelunky.


What's the issue with the controls?


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metamorpho
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Posted: 6th Sep 2019 20:23 Edited at: 6th Sep 2019 20:24
Here is a video review of the game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7UKZ7pNwmE

He’s probably right in some way.
And perhaps a person gets used to a certain style of management and something else is no longer perceived by him.
Although personally it’s quite convenient for me to play with such controls, but I’m probably also used to it.
PSY
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Posted: 6th Sep 2019 20:57 Edited at: 6th Sep 2019 21:11
Quote: "And perhaps a person gets used to a certain style of management and something else is no longer perceived by him."

Well, that could not be more true ^^
The hardest part about play testing is recognizing that you are your worst play tester.


You don't happen to have any promo codes, do you?


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metamorpho
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Posted: 7th Sep 2019 10:50

PSY, I do not know how to do a promotional code in Steam.
But I can gift the key to the game, if there is a desire to test.
PSY
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Posted: 7th Sep 2019 15:11
Yeah, we both mean the same thing
They keys you can request in Steamworks under 'Manage Keys'

I would really like to play test your game, especially regarding the issue with the controls.


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metamorpho
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Posted: 7th Sep 2019 15:38

PSY,
Sent a key - see private messages.
PSY
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Posted: 7th Sep 2019 15:45
Thanks alot metamorpho. Will test it later this evening and send you feedback!

Very much appreciated!


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PSY
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Posted: 7th Sep 2019 20:32 Edited at: 7th Sep 2019 22:33
Hey,

just played a couple of levels. Here's some constructive feedback:

Z and Y are interchanged on German keyboards. You should assign 'destroy block' to both keys
Turning left and right shouldn't be assigned to [arrow up] and [arrow down]. That's just confusing and has a negative impact on the control flow. The character should turn left/right by briefly hitting [arrow left/right]
This is an action game that requires precise controls. Therefore, the character should immediately stop on releasing [arrow left/right]. Also, jumping while running should be possible
The menu ambient sound doesn't loop cleanly. There's an audible crack when it reaches the end and reloops
The game should have its own Windows icon. Either use a tool like Resource Hacker or just copy your icon in your project folder and name it icon.ico
Hitting ESC while in the pause menu should unpause the game
Have someone ( who's fluent in English ) correct the help screens. Spelling and grammar errors as well as inconsistency ( i.e. Turn to the left vs. Turning right ) could put off possible players
Add a sound/music volume control option (!)
Use an upper case C on the shortcut icon ( Fiery Catacombs )



This game has a lot of potential for a casual game. The level design so far is very nice. I really enjoy playing it.
Fixing the controls should be your highest priority!


I'm gonna play some more levels now


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metamorpho
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Posted: 8th Sep 2019 06:23

PSY,
Thank you so much for testing my game and specific tips !!
I will correct the game in what I can.
PSY
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Posted: 8th Sep 2019 19:55
No problem, you're welcome

I'll replay the new version as soon as it's ready


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tiresius
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Posted: 9th Sep 2019 19:36 Edited at: 9th Sep 2019 19:37
I haven't played it but from the video I can tell that movement is "grid based" and not per-pixel based. For a game like this you need fluid movement like super mario bros or other standard platformers.
Grid based movement is okay for rogue-like RPGs or strategic games but not for action games.

It might take a lot of recoding for what you have already, but I it would solve a majority of the complaints from the guy in that video.
Specifically:
- he wanted to "turn around" on the spot to break something on ground to the left, but couldn't. Left key made entire character move to the left square, which was on top of what he wanted to act upon.
- constantly walking/falling into ditches instead of jumping over them, because he was hitting the left/right key while hitting the jump key

It looks like an interesting game with a lot of potential. Good luck
metamorpho
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Posted: 11th Sep 2019 13:53

tiresius,
thanks for the feedback on the game and good advice !!
metamorpho
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Posted: 19th Sep 2019 11:14
Hello to all!!

I updated my game a bit:
- translated the control keys "A" jump and "Z" breaking blocks into LeftCtrl and LeftAlt keys. This is to ensure versatility for various keyboard layouts
- turning left and right, at first I changed how I was advised, but there was another problem - a pause between a U-turn, and in the game you often need to go in the opposite direction instantly,
and if there is even a small pause, then you do not have time to leave. Therefore, I left the U-turn as it was, but changed all levels so that there were no problem spots in connection with U-turns
- As for the jumps, I also left it as it was, since the algorithm itself is such that until the player passes 64 pixels,
he will not react to other keys. Therefore, before the jump, you just need to stop and then calmly jump.
- the volume of sounds and music can now be adjusted during the game itself

For those who would like to play this game, I can give a key.
If after the game you like something in it, I want to ask you to leave your feedback on the game’s page in Steam (this is an optional condition, this is just a request).
I will also be glad to hear your advice and opinions.
PSY
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Posted: 19th Sep 2019 14:25
Hey,

gonna try it as soon as Steam pushes the update. Just checked, not up yet


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metamorpho
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Posted: 19th Sep 2019 20:45

I have not quite figured out in Steam how to update the game. It seems that when updating the game file, I just replaced the old one with a new one and as a result Steam does not show that the update has occurred.
PSY, is it possible for the key holder to delete the game and download it again?
PSY
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Posted: 20th Sep 2019 14:54 Edited at: 20th Sep 2019 14:54
After you upload the new version, you have to republish it. You probably forgot to hit the button in Steamworks
And yes, you can always uninstall and re-download every game in your Steam library.


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metamorpho
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Posted: 25th Sep 2019 16:41
Hello to all !!

There was a problem with the game.
On my friend’s game is very slow.
It has the following configuration:
Windows 10 home 64
12 GB RAM
Intel core i5 2.67 GHz Dual core
Video card AMD Radeon HD7800 Series
2 GB VRAM
DirectX 12 installed

On my much weaker computer, my game is fast and produces about 54 fps in windowed mode.

My configuration:
Windows 10 home 64
Intel Pentium G3220 3.0 GHz
4 GB RAM
integrated video card
DirectX 12 installed

I compiled a 32 bit version of the file my game.
Can reason that be, need to compile in 64 bit?

A friend can easily play much more difficult games.
But my game is very slow for him.
Tell me for what reasons can such game brakes be?
Captain Ouais
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Posted: 25th Sep 2019 19:17
Hi, I think it's a video card problem,
my game is very slow also on my laptop with an intel integrated video card.
I do what i do !!!
metamorpho
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Posted: 27th Sep 2019 15:31
I compiled a 64 bit version of the file my game, but did not help.
It works fast on my weak computer.
On a friend’s powerful computer, my game is slow.
metamorpho
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Posted: 27th Sep 2019 15:50
Can someone share how to solve such a problem.

Maybe my settings are wrong.
Here is what I use:

SetErrorMode (2)
SetWindowTitle ("FieryCatacombs")
SetWindowSize (1024, 768, 0)
SetWindowAllowResize (1)
SetVirtualResolution (1024, 768)
SetOrientationAllowed (1, 1, 1, 1)
SetSyncRate (60.1)
SetScissor (0,0,1024,768) // 0,0)
UseNewDefaultFonts (1)
fubarpk
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Posted: 27th Sep 2019 19:57
Quote: " I think it's a video card problem,"

There was an issue with intel based video cards which should be fixed in the latest version
fubarpk
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metamorpho
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Posted: 6th Oct 2019 14:23
In the case of which I wrote, the computer on which the game slows down has a video card AMD Radeon HD7800 Series
metamorpho
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Posted: 31st Oct 2019 17:30
About two months have passed since I released my game in Steam. There are several reviews with outrage about the speed of the game on powerful computers.
I got some disappointment about the AppGameKit Classic.
Currently revealed the following:
1. Game slows down due to problems with intel based video cards.
2. Game slows down due to problems with has a video cards AMD Radeon HD7800 Series.
3. "ExtractZip" command has problems with Cyrillic folder paths. As a result, it is impossible to use "ExtractZip" if non-English letters are present in the path where the game is installed.

In general, I very like AppGameKit Classic for its simplicity and ease of programming, but because of the above problems, for me at the moment, it makes no sense to develop commercial projects on AppGameKit Classic for Windows.

I really hope that these problems are fixed in the new updates AppGameKit Classic.
PSY
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Posted: 31st Oct 2019 21:52
Whats the max FPS your game runs on your machine?


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GaborD
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Posted: 31st Oct 2019 22:14
I really like the look of the game, great art style. Also like the gameplay, reminds me of the good old days.
But with oldschool 2D graphics like this, it should run at hundreds of FPS on anything that is not an old toaster.

You said one of the problem machines belongs to a friend, so that's a good option for tracking down the main issue causing the slowdowns. I am sure he will help you test.
Have you broken the game down to it's components to narrow down what causes the slowdowns?
What I mean is making versions that lack one component, to see if that gets rid of the problem. (without sound, without physics, without moving objects/enemies, without animations, without the level blocks, without gameplay mechanics, etc.)
Even if the problem turns out to be on AGK's end, you would still provide invaluable info for fixing the issue. You have access to a machine the problem can be reproduced on reliably. Use that advantage.
metamorpho
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Posted: 1st Nov 2019 06:28

PSY. The maximum FPS of my game on my computer:
at SetSyncRate(0,1)
window mode = 69 fps
full screen mode = 53 fps

at SetSyncRate(60,1)
window mode = 59 fps
full screen mode = 51 fps

GaborD. Thanks for the advice - I'll try to experiment, but the fact itself shows that on computers more powerful than mine - my game slows down. At the same time, works quite quickly on my computer. So the problem is not in optimizing the code. There seems to be a problem with the mismatch of some video cards and AppGameKit Classic.
PSY
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Posted: 1st Nov 2019 11:51
There seems to be a bottleneck in your code, which becomes more noticable on certain hardware conditions ( even if other components on peoples' computers are more powerful than yours ).

The HD7800 is quite old and slow, and you're running on an Intel integrated video card, so normally I wouldn't be surprised when the FPS drop, but NOT in a game like yours.
Like GaborD said, the game should run MUCH faster, at least at 100-200 FPS, but that's probably still a huge underestimation, even on a HD7800. I figure it should probably run on at least 500.

I'm getting around 400FPS on an Nvidia 970 while moving 2000 spacecraft sprites simultaneously @1080p


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metamorpho
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Posted: 1st Nov 2019 12:43
On my computer, the integrated Intel graphics card.
When I start an empty project and
SetSyncRate(0,1)
SetVirtualResolution( 1024, 768 )
it produces about 290 fps.

In the game with a high level of 50x50 = 2500 elements
when I start the game - it gives out about 60 FPS.
And it is pretty good and fast.
metamorpho
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Posted: 1st Nov 2019 12:47
What could be the bottleneck in the code - for a more powerful computer than mine?
metamorpho
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Posted: 1st Nov 2019 12:55
PSY
You can write what parameters you use at first to configure the graphic operation of the game. I mean

SetErrorMode (2)
SetWindowTitle ("FieryCatacombs")
SetWindowSize (1024, 768, 0)
SetWindowAllowResize (1)
SetVirtualResolution (1024, 768)
SetOrientationAllowed (1, 1, 1, 1)
SetSyncRate (60.1)
SetScissor (0,0,1024,768)
UseNewDefaultFonts (1)

maybe I did something wrong or didn’t use something
metamorpho
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Posted: 1st Nov 2019 16:43


Explain to me why in this code
with the team "DrawSprite" I have 35 fps
and without a command "DrawSprite" I have 290 fps

is the team "DrawSprite" so slow, or is it something else?
how can without a command "DrawSprite" quickly draw the same sprite 2000 times - for example a wall (sprite size 64x64) ?
GaborD
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Posted: 1st Nov 2019 17:40 Edited at: 1st Nov 2019 17:40
Without drawSprite you are drawing the sprite only one single time per refresh (with the Sync), so that will naturally be much faster than drawing it 401 times.
metamorpho
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Posted: 1st Nov 2019 18:14
GaborD, thanks !!
How can without a command "DrawSprite" quickly draw the same sprite 2000 times - for example a wall (sprite size 64x64) ?
GaborD
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Posted: 1st Nov 2019 18:32
Quote: "What could be the bottleneck in the code - for a more powerful computer than mine?"


Usually games are fillrate bottlenecked (in which case "powerful GPU = speed" does apply), but there can be other issues slowing things down on certain hardware configurations. (CPU bottlenecking, Vmem, main mem, certain drivers not handling something the engine does well, etc.) Some hardware setups may have "interesting" limitations noone would expect.

You could try to use

GetDrawingSetupTime
GetDrawingTime
GetPhysicsTime
GetUpdateTime
GetImageMemoryUsage
GetLoadedImages
GetManagedSpriteCount
GetManagedSpriteDrawCalls
GetManagedSpriteDrawnCount
GetManagedSpriteSortedCount
GetParticleDrawnPointCount
GetParticleDrawnQuadCount
GetPixelsDrawn
GetUnassignedImages

to at least narrow down which part of the chain is causing the slowdown. Also look at CPU usage and GPU usage while running it, that's a first big hint.
It could be a weird combination of things you wouldn't usually think of. I've been there, it happens.
Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 1st Nov 2019 18:51 Edited at: 1st Nov 2019 19:07
Quote: "In the game with a high level of 50x50 = 2500 elements"

meta, i don't see why you're using DrawSprite at all?

i suggest that you load your image(s), create separate sprites for each tile/grid-space and position them to create your level/map and let sync()/render() do it's thing. a few thousand sprites is really a non-issue (even on my dated system with integrated video).

you'll want to add the sprite IDs to an array upon creation so that, once the level is complete, you can reference them to move/change/delete them for the next level.

add: i should mention this is a brute force method that should work fine based on the number of sprites that you mentioned while a simple "sprite handling" routine that only uses enough sprites to fill the screen would be ideal/better practice.

GaborD
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Posted: 1st Nov 2019 19:07 Edited at: 1st Nov 2019 19:22
Agree to what Virtual Nomad said.

Make sure you only load each needed image once, then create the sprites from those few images. This will ensure AppGameKit can batch together sprites with the same image and reduce drawcalls.

Here is your example from above, adjusted for this. Draws 400 sprites each refresh, they are instanced due to being created from 1 image. Only 1 drawcall according to GetManagedSpriteDrawCalls()
Runs 3600 FPS on my GTX1070.

metamorpho
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Posted: 1st Nov 2019 19:50
Virtual Nomad, thank!!
team "Drawsprite" i used to leave a fingerprint of the sprite when drawing a level.
I thought "Drawsprite" it was doing some kind of sprite clone.
Perhaps because of the use of the command "Drawsprite"
my game 60 fps.

GaborD, thank you so much for the code and tips !!
This is what I needed.
FPS soared to 180
I'll try to introduce this into my game.
PSY
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2019 09:53
Sorry,

helped a buddy of mine the whole afternoon and came home late at night.
Just read this.

Can't add much, GaborD and Virtual Nomad already said what had to be said

Forget DrawSprite(), it's meant for other purposes.
Maybe build in a command/switch/code for running your game with unlimited FPS, so other players/testers with other pc configs can give you feedback on speed.


Good luck,
PSY


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metamorpho
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2019 14:32
PSY, thanks for the idea !!
I'll try to embed such a switch code for testers.

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