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AppGameKit Classic Chat / LOWREZJAM 2020 @ itch.io

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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 31st Jul 2020 06:49 Edited at: 17th Aug 2020 02:10
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i hope to see AppGameKit represented during LOWREZJAM 2020 which is being hosted on itch.io Aug 1st thru Aug 16th.

submissions are limited to 64x64 resolution (or lower) with optional themes to be announced.

personally, i hope to bring a couple of recent thoughts together as a submission: the 40th anniversary of pac-man, and the (sorely missed) summer games.



yes, i could use an artist/media person and, if things go well early/i can get a template together, i'll open it up for others to add events.

please share your project here if you decide to partake?

Update: find our Entries here: #LowRezJamAGK2020
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blink0k
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Posted: 31st Jul 2020 07:58
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Oooooooh. Awesome.
I would highly recommend using GB's Retro Fantasy Computer Framework
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 1st Aug 2020 20:33 Edited at: 1st Aug 2020 20:58
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already at an impasse, here, where SetViewOffset seems to "jitter" left/right.

i expect it's some rounding issue (where the help file doesn't specify integer or float parameters)? see attached.

click to send them running.

and, yes, i'd like to use physics in this
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blink0k
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Posted: 1st Aug 2020 23:53 Edited at: 1st Aug 2020 23:58
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Maybe try SetSpriteSnap()
Are you going to run it full screen like that? I think they insist on a multiple of 2 64x64, 128x128, 256x256
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2020 01:59 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2020 03:40
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Quote: "Maybe try SetSpriteSnap()"

yeah, i have. i've also tried multiple rounding techniques, using standard resolutions, removing the zoom, etc. = nope

add: it's only when using physics. IE, it's not pulling proper worldX using impulse/velocity, even if i update viewoffset after Sync().
i've suspected such since g-breaker.
works fine if i SetSpritePosition()...
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PSY
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2020 04:02 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2020 04:06
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That's an FPS / physics steps issue, which might be caused by a bug, depending on the drivers you're using.
I started noticing strange FPS issues lately. I think they are either connected to a recent NVidia driver update, or to a recent AppGameKit update, or a mixture of both.

When I use SetSyncRate() in any code, the FPS are not stable until I use a value >=234.
With values <234, I get unstable FPS, and I never reach the FPS I set with SetSyncRate()
Above >=234, I get the FPS I set. Stable.

You don't call StepPhysics(), so Sync() does that for you, using the last frame time. That, and the fact that the FPS have been acting crazy lately, could result in the jittering.

Solutions:
Your code runs with 50 fps on my pc. Movement looks really crappy. There are 2 ways to eliminate the jittering:
1. Your game speed is physics based, so you can increase the FPS with SetSyncRate(). Any value >=65 works for me. Jittering is gone. Try higher values until it's gone.
2. If you want to keep SetSyncRate(60,0), use StepPhysics() just before Sync(). I used StepPhysics ( 0.03 ) and the jittering was gone, no matter how many FPS. I even did SetSyncRate(30), and the pacs were running smoothly.


PSY


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blink0k
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2020 05:34 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2020 05:39
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HOTDOG. Kart style game
I'm using assets from my Van game so i'm not sure if that's kosher. I know i've gotta rezdown the HUD and chunk up the scenery


I actually thought i only had a couple of days and i'm going at it hard and then i looked and what a relief!!!!
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2020 05:37 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2020 05:42
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thanks, PSY. that has me on the right track. i forgot the "issue" had returned until "precision" mattered as it does with this.
i set syncrate to 30, and am using this timer:

using a constant velocity, the total elapsed time still varies but i can attribute that to "track conditions"


add, since blinks post while i was editing mine:
Quote: "I actually thought i only had a couple of days"

i wouldn't have posted the jam if it was. i don't like that kind of stress!

meanwhile, HotDog looks AWESOME
Quote: "i'm not sure if that's kosher"

i see what you did there (assuming you did it on purpose). and, the "rules" are very loose, so...
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blink0k
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2020 05:40
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If you render to an image at 64x64 and then scale that up i think i will work
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2020 05:45
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Quote: "If you render to an image at 64x64 and then scale that up i think i will work"

+
Quote: "The game can be scaled up to fit in a bigger window"

+

= i think i'm good
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2020 05:55 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2020 06:11
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how are you guys getting such clarity after scaling up????

I try using the exact same settings that you show above, but everything gets fuzzy.


EDIT

Never mind ; I see now ... never had to use these but sweet...

: SetImageMinFilter(1,0) : SetImageMagFilter(1,0)

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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2020 06:04
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Quote: "how are you guys getting such clarity after scaling up????"


?
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GarBenjamin
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2020 06:10 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2020 06:11
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These look fantastic already! I didn't notice any jitter on the pac game run.


@Conjured Entertainment you might just need SetImageMagFilter(image, 0) and SetImageMagFilter(image, 0).

EDIT: Seems I posted same time basically as Virtual Nomad... but yeah that snippet.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2020 06:13
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Thanks guys for the fast response.. I was checking out your example and found it while you were typing.

Should have refreshed before the edit above.

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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2020 06:16 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2020 06:50
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Quote: "I'm using assets from my Van game so i'm not sure if that's kosher. "

looks like that is okay according to the FAQ's...

"What existing assets can I use? While it's encouraged to create original assets for your game, you're welcome to use any assets you have the legal right to use, furthermore; it's always good to credit sources even if you don't have to!"

I will probably make them from scratch for this (again nothing fancy on my part anyway).

I have a few ideas, so I might join in with you guys on this one.

Will try my first multiplayer game in an HTML5 build now that it seems that I can get a server response.

2 weeks is not a lot of time though, since I am really limited now to computer time during the heat wave, but may be able to do something really basic.

The graphics will be everything for this type competition, so like my other jam entries I go into it without hopes of winning.

Great chance to work on some ideas that can be used later on another project though, so I will not have much time for graphics.

The other stuff will be simple too, thinking of a Rock-Paper-Scissors Tic-Tac-Toe....

If that makes no sense, then think of filling out the grid with your choices, and then playing that grid against the opponents.

Each space gets an X or an O depending on who wins the RPS battle for that square. (like I said, something simple, and just when you thought tic-tac-toe could not be lamer)

@Blinkok

That racing game looks really awesome.. love the Pole Position style.

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blink0k
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2020 07:56 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2020 08:00
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Thanks for the research matey.
You can also set the default filter
SetDefaultMin/MagFilter(0))

I would really like to see an entry from you GB using your framework.
It's a great opportunity to showcase it
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2020 14:49 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2020 17:56
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Quote: "Thanks for the research matey.
You can also set the default filter
SetDefaultMin/MagFilter(0))"


Thanks for the additional info.

Unlike the others though, you must place those before loading the images, where the others can come after as in their example.

As I said, these are new commands for me so I ran into trouble at first, but quickly figured that out. (just wanted to give a heads up for others reading this)


Quote: "I would really like to see an entry from you GB using your framework.
It's a great opportunity to showcase it"

Agreed.

It's hard to imagine a better chance.


Quote: "These look fantastic already! I didn't notice any jitter on the pac game run."

I did not notice any either, until I ran it a few times more and then I did experience 1 jitter. (didn't see that as a big deal though)


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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2020 17:58 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2020 18:02
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Not sure if anyone wants to use this for anything, but here it for anyone not wanting to spend the time making something similar... (yes I just made this from scratch)



There may be others already out there, but here this is anyway now that it is done. (sure it looks just like others since 8x8 size doesn't offer much variation)

Have fun! (and certainly no credits are needed for something this simple and generic)

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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2020 18:28 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2020 21:02
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Quote: "I did notice a shadowy box on the legs "

looks like you figured it out; i have to have something to kick the hurdles around


Blink wrote: "If you render to an image at 64x64 and then scale that up i think i will work"

oops. forgot i had:

i get it now. no wonder i thought "this ain't so bad"
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blink0k
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2020 21:54
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Awesome work VN. That is looking very nice.
What theme are you going for there?
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GarBenjamin
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2020 23:13 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2020 23:17
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That looks excellent VN. Has a very interesting look to it.

After getting some work done around the house I decided to play around with making a little game for the jam although I haven't officially joined it yet.

As usual, I had no real idea yet so I just started making "something". I thought maybe a top down exploration game or sort of simply adventure would be cool.

So I made 17 tiles in the Retro Game Sprite Editor and then started making a map in Tiled.
The world is 4x4 screens. I designed a 4x2 screen area so far. Added an object layer and stamped down a marker indicating where the player starts.


And that's all I have done so far.

Hope to work on it some later. Tomorrow is back to work again.

Not worried about the programming side because using the RGFCF it will be super easy to implement moving around this map.

Mainly just playing around letting ideas come naturally at this point while I design the world in Tiled. Once I get a basic idea of what the story is, and how it plays I will implement some of it in AGK.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 00:38 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2020 00:39
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Quote: ""I did notice a shadowy box on the legs ""


lol Good thing you are a MOD.

I had edited that out and was planning to tell you in a PM later but forgot.

Liking the new shadows.

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blink0k
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 01:23
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Yeah baby! GB is in the house! Superb as usual

Me, I'm doing what i do best...procrastinating!

My swooshes are terrible
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 02:08 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2020 02:47
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I finally have a little something to show, but not very impressive.

Just wanted to explain the idea and how I hope to get it working.

The top 3 buttons on the right are for filling out your card, then you lace your bet, then you click the check mark when ready to find a match.

If you click the ready before filling out the card, then any blank spaces will be randomly filled.

This is not turn based, so it will use a scoring system instead after both cards have been evaluated and the X's and O's have been assigned to the squares.

So, it will be possible for either person to score, and for either to score more than one line match, which will be a multiplier on the bet. (house wins draws)

Not finished with the graphics yet (sill not happy with the scissors), but this is just a template for me to get working on the functionality of the buttons and stuff.

Feel free to laugh, because making someone smile is what it's all about.




So, here is an example of how it would work, but I may have to figure something else out for the ties, like a random dice roll or something, else it may be too difficult to win.

It is all totally random submitting it without knowing the other guys plays, so it is really different than Tic-Tac-Toe as it is all luck and no strategy really.

Example...


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GarBenjamin
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 04:44 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2020 04:48
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I think that's a highly readable display Conjured. The scissors look great to me. 64x64 is just such a tiny area to work with. Quite enjoyable though.


I did some more work. Made a little person for the player to control, some collectibles (silver, gold, scrolls and a sword).

Then I coded it up to be able to wander around.

It's starting to kind of look like something.

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blink0k
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 06:28 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2020 06:28
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That looks very good Conjured. I would maybe have a look at GB's framework just to get a palette. I think using the palette colours will make it really pop.
Nice walking man GB. It shows how quickly you can put something together with your framework.

Got some dogs moving


Crits and comments welcome
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 09:19 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2020 09:24
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Quote: "Crits and comments welcome"

cheese & tomatoes on mine, please. condiments for pick-ups/sabotage? otherwise, looks delicious!

speaking of changing gears... i realized that all the physics testing would be my end (and it's no fun). so:

sticking with my homage to pac-man & aimed for the stars (think pacman 2100+) . and, chose the stealth/infiltration theme.
just testing some mechanics ATM. so far, so good. and, a lot less tedious than the first run (pun intended)

meanwhile, looking good, all. keep it up!
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blink0k
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 10:06
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Quote: "The game can be scaled up to fit in a bigger window, but the view in game must remain 64x64"


If you look at the examples. I'm pretty sure they mean you can make a bigger window but the game must remain 64x46

So for example if you rez it up to 256x256 then each pixel must be 4x4 pixels

In the case of my HOTDOG game the splash screen is actually 64x64 pixels



Using Virtual resolution and RenderToImage() i rez it up to 256x256




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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 10:13 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2020 10:24
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why is my starry oversized background (256x256) with SetSpriteSize(back,512,-1) (so i can scroll it) showing in higher res? i'm using SetVirtualResolution( 64,64 ) then MaximizeWindow(). do i HAVE to RenderToImage()? i don't have good luck, there.
the other graphics seem to be acting right. the walls are 12x12, pac/ghost 8x8,,, i'll draw the background so i don't have to scale but i don't understand why it's up-sampling? (is that the word?)
NMD. i was loading the wrong one
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Loktofeit
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 11:47
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I was going to join but once I saw the amazing stuff that gets submitted (plus some of the cool stuff in this thread) I realized I was way outa my league on this one. A lot of these coders have this 64x64 thing down to a science.

Good luck and have fun! Anxious to see your finished work!
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 12:51 Edited at: 4th Aug 2020 10:46
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Quote: "I think that's a highly readable display Conjured. The scissors look great to me. 64x64 is just such a tiny area to work with. Quite enjoyable though."

Yeah, but I just realized that two of my button images were 16x16 and the 8x8 button scaled them to a disqualification. (easy fix though, I'll just make them 8x8)

Your top down is looking good.


Quote: "Got some dogs moving

Crits and comments welcome"


Holy Hot Dogs Batman!

Dude, with the jumps and the shadows that is really looking awesome. (even better than Pole Position)

I am turning green with envy, and you have captured my vote already!

The only thing that looked off to me was the drivers head in the turns.

I understand that the forces of the turn would push his body in that direction, but most people would be leaning into the turn to counter it, so it caught my eye.

So, the hotdog getting forced that way is natural, but it seems that the driver's head would be leaning into the turn.

Your preference of course, and it is fine like it is, just saying that my subconscious was strong enough to 'break on through to the other side' and make me notice it.


Quote: "speaking of changing gears... i realized that all the physics testing would be my end (and it's no fun). so:

sticking with my homage to pac-man & aimed for the stars (think pacman 2100+) . and, chose the stealth/infiltration theme.
just testing some mechanics ATM. so far, so good. and, a lot less tedious than the first run (pun intended)"

That is looking great too.

Really nice fluid motion, and the blur on the background is a nice way to make things pop too.

The background looks like it is exceeding the 64x64 limit. (not saying it is, just that it looks like it with those gases)

You guys make me wish I had better eyes, because then I would have more experience with this size limitation. (I thank the Gods that they let us scale up)


Quote: "I was going to join but once I saw the amazing stuff that gets submitted (plus some of the cool stuff in this thread) I realized I was way outa my league on this one. A lot of these coders have this 64x64 thing down to a science. "

"way outa my league on this one" lol... Says the Gold Codemaster... Come on man, join us.

They are showing off what AppGameKit can really do, and mine should be crappy enough to encourage anyone to try.
(you can't get worse than mine and I am sure you can do something awesome)

...I removed the Doors video just to keep this more relevant ... they were my favorite band for many years...

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blink0k
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 14:02 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2020 14:03
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Man i love the doors. Absolute number one band ever
I totally agree with the roll. It just didn't look right to me either
Please opt in . It'll be fun
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fubarpk
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 14:42
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@loktofeit its about the challenge
so im sure everyone would like to see your entry

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GarBenjamin
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 19:33
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VN that looks fantastic! Really excellent.

@Loktofeit like fubarpk said it's really just for challenging yourself and having fun. It's not really a competition with other people although people do vote on the entries.

Often in game jams people enter and submit work they already made months even a year or more before. I've seen the same game submitted to multiple jams over a years time even. For that reason unless someone provides videos or some other kind of log to show the development process you can't really know if it actually was made in the weekend or 2 weeks of the jam. I am not saying that as bad about the people who do that just that it's not something to take too seriously or judge people's entries (including your own) too harshly. I enjoy seeing all of the things people make even the unfinished ones.

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GarBenjamin
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 23:37
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Experimenting with different graphics. Although a top down humanoid is more "realistic" I think it's a bit boring and going more symbolic might be more interesting.

Changed it to this now...


Personally, I like this simpler style better. Will probably do some more experiments with simpler more symbolic shapes. Who knows it might end up with an arrow. ha ha
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blink0k
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 23:44
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That's looking very cool GB
Just a suggestion but your character could be 10px high as opposed to 7px. Just make it overlap the walls. It will give it a bit of a 3D feel i think
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 4th Aug 2020 00:26
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looking good, GB

i've worked on the maze editor today; about 70% done with it. also had a few ideas pop into my head re: a storyline, and made a few graphics. so, "productive"

and, drawing from the last time i entered a jam (my first), i'm remembering the importance of taking breaks (which i am on now) and HAVING FUN.
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Posted: 4th Aug 2020 03:22
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Changed the camera position and the FOV.
Which do you prefer:
1) Before

2) After


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fubarpk
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Posted: 4th Aug 2020 03:45
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like them both think the second looks higher rez for some reason

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GarBenjamin
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Posted: 4th Aug 2020 03:49
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Wow! Both views look fantastic Blink! I think I'd lean more towards the second that is lower to the ground. Perhaps you could make it an option.

I went back to a humanoid character again but in retro style side on instead of top down. I like this I think. It reminds me a lot of the old action rpgs from long ago.



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blink0k
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Posted: 4th Aug 2020 04:09 Edited at: 4th Aug 2020 23:17
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That looks great GB. Lots of movement.
Thanks for the feedback. Maybe i can make it an option


Low rez made with AppGameKit logo if you wanna plug the product

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Loktofeit
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Posted: 4th Aug 2020 10:00
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Gar, I really like that character. It reminds me of the old Intellivision, Atari, and Odyssey console games.

Blink, those are some really good graphics for 64x64!

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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 4th Aug 2020 10:20 Edited at: 4th Aug 2020 10:31
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Quote: "like them both think the second looks higher rez for some reason"

Not only the new tread on the tires and subtle color changes make it look better, but the zoom in on the vehicle is what I think is giving that illusion of higher detail.

I prefer the lower angle in the second one, but the further distance of the first. lol (they both look great though so hard to decide)

I have another suggestion for the head lean...

A detection of the length of input so those tiny adjustments would not cause a lean, just the harder turns. (not too much time though to avoid delayed leans )

Yes, now I am nitpicking, but you seem to have it all working great, so plenty of time for the fine details to make it perfect. (it is already 98% perfect for this 64x64)

Speaking of nitpicking and timed input, how about getting those front wheels to turn a little too. (since there are no fenders to obstruct the view, which is good)

The wheels of course should have the instant response as they would, and then the change of the head turn would separate the two enough so they don't look tied together.

Quote: "I went back to a humanoid character again but in retro style side on instead of top down. I like this I think. It reminds me a lot of the old action rpgs from long ago."

I like that better too, and that style is definitely retro beautiful.

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 4th Aug 2020 13:05
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@blink, they're both top notch but i prefer the first view. it shows more of what's around the player + catching air is more obvious.

@loktofelt, there is a place for word games such as your word scramble, here. the same goes for your trivia games. in fact, they would probably be appreciated and stand out where most entries will be some sort of arcade or action game, otherwise. a text-based offering would be a nice change of pace?

@GB, i WISH the old RPGs looked as good as yours. i don't recall a lot of animation in them and yours is great given the px restriction
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GarBenjamin
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Posted: 5th Aug 2020 00:44 Edited at: 5th Aug 2020 05:45
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Thanks everyone. Glad to hear the character style is well received.

This is day #3 already. I am glad the jam still has about 12 days left.

I needed an area to display some very basic stats (not implemented yet) and I wanted to have some messages for events such as picking up items. Also needed to display the text on the scrolls.

For the stats and messages I sacrificed the bottom 1/8th of the screen. That area will eventually show the stats. And it doubles for the event messages. Of course, the amount of text that can be displayed there is quite limited so they are presented in a scrolling manner. I didn't want it to always say "YOU FOUND" when picking up items quickly one after another so it only says "YOU FOUND" if no "found item" message is currently being processed. And each new message is scrolled by faster than the one before in these instances.

To do that I used the second MapView available in the RETRO GAME FANTASY COMPUTER FRAMEWORK to display the bottom row of the tile map. When a message event comes out of the queue it is created in that bottom row.

For the large text displayed over the game screen from the scrolls I just used the 8x8 TextGrid in the RGFCF.

Overall I think this is quite workable. Mainly I just wanted the game to feel "alive" while adventuring around.


Ha ha... gotta like making a game in an area about the size of a stamp.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 5th Aug 2020 12:14 Edited at: 5th Aug 2020 12:29
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Quote: "For the large text displayed over the game screen from the scrolls I just used the 8x8 TextGrid in the RGFCF."

lol Now you tell me.

I had forgotten that it offered tiny text.

I did remember that it had the sprite editor and the palette converter, but I guess my post above shows that I have yet to play around with it.

Wasn't trying to step on any toes with my offering, and yours are better spaced than mine anyway so obviously I wasn't trying to out do anyone.

Sorry about that.

I decided to only use my tiny font just for the score at the bottom anyway, and to use the MESSAGE() command to display my text messages.

Hoping I will not get disqualified for it, but it doesn't really matter if they do because ''I'm not in it to win it', just to have fun experimenting with a few new ideas..

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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Loktofeit
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Posted: 5th Aug 2020 12:53
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"a text-based offering would be a nice change of pace?" - VN

Interesting. I think I might try this. Getting text into such a tiny space may be a fun challenge! Good suggestion, VN!
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 5th Aug 2020 16:16 Edited at: 5th Aug 2020 16:18
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Quote: "Interesting. I think I might try this. Getting text into such a tiny space may be a fun challenge! Good suggestion, VN!"


Yeah, especially for long messages, as I have just discovered that the Message() idea for instructions has a major flaw...

HTML5 builds (with FireFox anyway) give the user an option to block future dialogs, so if that tick-box gets checked then the user is going to have problems knowing what is going on.

For this Jam I am just going to deal with it and use them anyway, but give a warning in the instructions that they need to have the dialogs enabled to get in game instructions and other information.

I need a few of these dialogs to inform people when their device was not recognized, and for input instructions for limitations on user names, etc.

I was going to use them for the bets too but I guess I will hard code that, because those Message() dialogs are only used on the start up if the shared variables are null.

If they have cookies enabled, then all they get a second go around is a "Welcome Back " Message(), so it is not a big deal for recognized devices/users.

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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blink0k
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Posted: 5th Aug 2020 22:15 Edited at: 6th Aug 2020 00:46
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That is looking super GB. Really showcasing the framework.
You have to think of a name for you framework, RGFCF is triggering my ocd

Quote: "Interesting. I think I might try this. Getting text into such a tiny space may be a fun challenge! Good suggestion, VN!"

http://www.pickafont.com/fonts/Tiny%20Regular.html
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 6th Aug 2020 22:35
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#DEVMODE:

still plodding along, here. almost where i need to be to start churning out levels
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