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AppGameKit Classic Chat / What is the best model extension to use for appgamekit?

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Game_Code_here
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2020 23:32
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So I tested Direct X and this is NOT the best animated models to use.

Every model I load is contorted somehow.

Head are twisted and arms are longer then there bodies.

So I ask before I get to far into this.

What is the best way? FBX?
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ando
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 00:12 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2020 00:19
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.X ms3d b3d fbx work fine for me.

A code snippet would be handy showing how you load and modify the model.

Don't forget to use LoadObjectWithChildren() for animated models and if you change the scale use SetObjectScalePermanent().
Never play leap frog with a unicorn.
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Game_Code_here
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 00:17 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2020 00:21
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HI

Im talking about animated models, im loading them correct

but from every model I load there contorted.

Here is how I am trying to test animated models from model packs

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ando
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 00:20
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SetObjectScalePermanent()
Never play leap frog with a unicorn.
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Game_Code_here
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 00:21
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OK, I will try it, thank you.
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Game_Code_here
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 00:28 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2020 00:34
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No, still contorted, im currently testing bonds Direct x Reptilian

But every model I test is some how messed up

I uploaded a picture to show the arm is very long

So is FBX better?

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ando
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 00:42
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As long as you removed SetObjectScale() and replaced it with SetObjectScalePermanent() then maybe the model is faulty.

Test whatever formats you can to see if any work.

You can always upload the model so we can test it too.
Never play leap frog with a unicorn.
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Game_Code_here
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 00:44
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it is every model i try

some heads are messed up, some arms, weapons

So I thought it was a Dirext X problem
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blink0k
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 00:57
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It looks like you are animating scale which is not supported
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ando
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 00:59
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It's not supported in Classic? I've only got AGKS.
Never play leap frog with a unicorn.
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Game_Code_here
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 01:07 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2020 01:08
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So we cant scale a object then animate it?

Sounds odd

But when I load them in with out scale there the same odd shape
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fubarpk
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 01:12 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2020 01:14
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Quote: "So we cant scale a object then animate it?"

incorrect......we cant scale during the animation (in the animation itself is not allowed)

fubarpk on Itch...………...https://fubarpk.itch.io/
fubarpk on googleplay..https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=fubarpk
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Game_Code_here
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 01:17
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I see, well i was not scaling them in animation so I am at a loss
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Game_Code_here
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 01:26 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2020 01:27
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See, look at this school characters head, it is backwards with no animation

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fubarpk
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 02:23
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the problem all bones etc in the animation must be of the same scale if you scaled one even at the beginning of the animation it has this effect

fubarpk on Itch...………...https://fubarpk.itch.io/
fubarpk on googleplay..https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=fubarpk
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Game_Code_here
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 02:39
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Ok, But I did not scale any bones, I just loaded, scaled the whole model, and it looks like this. every model. But a couple loaded right,

Only models with no extra bones where correct

With no guns or extra face bones it looks.
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Game_Code_here
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 02:55 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2020 03:06
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Here is the model, load it in, it will be messed up, with not scaling it is still messed up. scaling is not the issue here.

I need to use this model if possible

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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 03:16 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2020 03:21
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Quote: "Only models with no extra bones where correct"


Are you exceeding the bone count?

I remember back in the day that some models had too many bones for my applications.

Can't remember if it was in AppGameKit or something else, but some programs have stricter limits, and when I removed some then they worked.

Was not ideal, but some models have way too many in backbones and other places.

If I remember right, I ran into problems with bones names too.

Can't remember exactly what it was, but I think it had something to do with replacing spaces with underscores.

I wish I could remember the specifics, and I am not sure if this is any help, but I do believe your bones may be the problem.

Sometimes I could load them into another modeling program and then export them and it would be ok, and never found out why that was, just got it to work and moved on.

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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Game_Code_here
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 03:23
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Conjured Entertainment

I believe you are correct

To bad i do not do 3d applications

There are to many problems when dealing with 3d models and animations plus it slows down the program writing process.

These school models load and work in dark basic pro, fps creator but not in appgamekit.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 03:29 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2020 03:52
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FragMOTION is what use when modeling, because all of my stuff is basic and it was a cheap program.

I started out with MilkShape 3D, but then moved to FragMOTION when I started getting more into the texturing and animations.

Both are good, and many people like Blender because it was free, probably still is I don't know, but I never liked the UI on Blender (too many pop up windows).

So, I got used to using FragMOTION and used it a lot, but I have not used it in a while and would probably have to relearn the UI again, but it was not hard.

I have successfully loaded FPSC Model Pack models into AppGameKit with their animations before, so it can be done with a little effort.

(see attachments) I made the P51 Mustang in FragMOTION, and note the zombies from Bond1 (FPSC) , which you can see the crawler crawling.

The other model was fine for animations, I just didn't have it doing anything when I recorded the video.

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1

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Game_Code_here
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 03:45
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Ive done this to fix the head positions and it worked, but there faces are all contorted and I don't know the bone names for the jaw and face animations.

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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 03:53 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2020 04:04
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Quote: "Ive done this to fix the head positions and it worked, but there faces are all contorted and I don't know the bone names for the jaw and face animations.
"

That is where the modeling programs come in, because you can look at the properties (including bone names) for each one.

Not sure if this will be much help for bones since I never really spent a lot of time improving it, but it may be a quick way to see if a model is going to look okay in AGK without hard coding them...

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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Game_Code_here
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 04:30
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OK, after testing your app, and it works well

I loaded many models

and some where messed up and some where not

only the ones with weapons where messed up or with extra bones for face animations.
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Game_Code_here
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 06:53
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Ok, update

I downloaded frag-motion

I opened the model and I reassigned the head verts directly to the head bone, Now there loading perfect, but truly appgamekit needs to be updated to support vert weights.
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Game_Code_here
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 06:53
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Ok, update

I downloaded frag-motion

I opened the model and I reassigned the head verts directly to the head bone, Now there loading perfect, but truly appgamekit needs to be updated to support vert weights.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 12:28
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Quote: "OK, after testing your app, and it works well

I loaded many models"

Cool


Quote: "Ok, update

I downloaded frag-motion

I opened the model and I reassigned the head verts directly to the head bone, Now there loading perfect, but truly appgamekit needs to be updated to support vert weights."

I never really got that fancy with models, and just slide the weight all the way over.

Not sure if AppGameKit really needs to be fancy with 3D either since it is mostly used for making mobile apps, which need to be as small as possible, but that is just my opinion.

It would be nice to see more 3D improvements though in the future, but I am sure Paul has a long list of wanted features already and I am unsure how high or low this is on the list.

I think there is a sticky thread for suggesting new features and updates though, so check that out and you can see if it is already been suggested or add it there so he will see it.

Glad you got it sorted out and that you have discovered the awesomeness of FragMOTION.

Rock on... now you can't get back to the really fun stuff... coding.

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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Game_Code_here
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 20:04
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Quote: "Not sure if AppGameKit really needs to be fancy with 3D either since it is mostly used for making mobile apps, which need to be as small as possible, but that is just my opinion."


Well, Many 3d Games on mobile apps that are fair sized and very popular. What they do is upload the rest of there game as a update.

Quote: "I think there is a sticky thread for suggesting new features and updates though, so check that out and you can see if it is already been suggested or add it there so he will see it."


Ok, thanks, Ill check it out.


Quote: "Glad you got it sorted out and that you have discovered the awesomeness of FragMOTION.

Rock on... now you can't get back to the really fun stuff... coding."


lol, That made me laugh.


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janbo
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 20:24 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2020 20:29
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Sice the problem is solved, I hope I can afford to distract a bit.
@Conjured Entertainment: It's funny how we made pretty much the same Model Viewer and I wonder how many there are lingering in our Comunity
I just miss the GUI commands to make the very best model viewer for AGKS.

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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 4th Aug 2020 02:30 Edited at: 4th Aug 2020 02:34
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Quote: "@Conjured Entertainment: It's funny how we made pretty much the same Model Viewer and I wonder how many there are lingering in our Comunity "

I think I made that after someone was asking for help or for a basic one to test things.

I was thinking that other members would make better ones (like yours with the bone list and wire frames), so I went back to work on my project at the time and stuck that on one of my many back burners.

I would bet there are quite a few, since everyone has their own preferences for interface layouts (never wanted to take the time to make anything user customizable, so I went for KISS).

Things like this are a nice break from a big project, but once I get basics working I want to get back to work on the other things. (not ADD really, I just get bored if it seems like work)

That 64x64 Jam at itch.io is my current distraction, because I am playing with things I want to incorporate on a game concept that I have had on the back burner for about a decade or so.

Trying to get motivated on that big one again, before I force myself to abandon it completely. (I have a few of those too, but such a waste of time having to walk away from them forever)

It's the challenge of new concepts and ideas that keep me going, hence my many completions of simple tasks, and many of the more complex WIPs that stay WIPs forever and a day.

These little tools are never a waste of time though as they can come in handy over and over again, even if just for the indie projects. (which all of mine are)

I like to share too, so it is nice to see someone else get a benefit from a tool however simple they are, because I feel like it was time well spent, which most of my games are not.

The thought of bunches of us making similar tools seems like time wasted too, so sharing among indies can help us all, which is why I love the TGC forums. (I have learned so much here)


Quote: "Well, Many 3d Games on mobile apps that are fair sized and very popular. What they do is upload the rest of there game as a update."

Great point about the updates, and I agree.

I have enough trouble trying to get something done to ever go back again for updates. (I really need to take a more professional approach, but that would bore me too)

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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Golelorn
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Posted: 4th Aug 2020 02:58
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Personally, my favorite is FBX. .x is a thing of the past. Why continue to hang on to it? Its going to cause you more and more frustrations going forward.

Blender exports FBX perfectly.

AGK does support vert weights... Not sure what you mean by that. How else is your model being animated besides vert weights being assigned to bones?
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Game_Code_here
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Posted: 4th Aug 2020 06:20
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Quote: "AGK does support vert weights... Not sure what you mean by that. How else is your model being animated besides vert weights being assigned to bones?"


If it fully supported vert weights then there would be no need to go into any program to set the verts to full weight on bones.

It only supports them on so many bones

How am I supposes to have talking animated people in game with out full support on all bones?

That's my point.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 4th Aug 2020 10:01 Edited at: 4th Aug 2020 10:08
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Quote: "Personally, my favorite is FBX. .x is a thing of the past. Why continue to hang on to it? Its going to cause you more and more frustrations going forward.

Blender exports FBX perfectly."


Perhaps because X files were very popular for many years, so there are countless models out there already available, not to mention the ones that we have invested our money and time in.

If the software can support these files, then we do not have to buy or build new ones, unless we are not happy with the look of the old ones.

That is like why asking why we still want to use a language based of the BASIC programming language...just because it is not as popular now doesn't mean that it has lost any of its merits.

Why do some people still use Windows XP, or why do Hospitals and Banks still use software formats and languages from the 1970's? ... because they work just fine for the task at hand, so upgrades are not needed.

The big tech corporations deprecate their stuff intentionally, so they can sell you something new that essentially is the same thing with a few extra features. (.X files are still very capable of giving great results)

Your favored FBX will be a thing of the past too, after you have collected/built thousands of wonderful models, but you will probably use it anyway because it is your favorite and you have grown to love those models and the format.

Maybe not, and that is up to you, which brings us to one of the answers that you already provided... personal preference.

I have used FragMOTION and Milkshape 3D for making my models, but I also included the link to Blender because I know that everyone does not like the things I do, and that many others have found it useful.

There is never a single answer to questions like these, as they will vary as much as the people who answer it, so to each his own, just try to have fun with it while learning the basics with affordable software designed to teach that.

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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janbo
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Posted: 4th Aug 2020 13:58 Edited at: 4th Aug 2020 19:49
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I like .obj and .fbx
About that hospital stuff: It's true they handle it like "never change a running system". You dont want bugs in your Pacemakers software
BUT: I'm a Softwaredeveloper in a HUGE UniKlinikum and currently working to rewrite a min 20 yeah old programm from scratch in C#, cause everything is evolving except those feature lacking old programms which cant run on modern OS obviously.
I also heared it's sometimes hard to explain the medical staff how a software works, our Hospital has 7000 Employees, comming and going, so I guess its easier if they have a PC at home. And I bet they dont run WinXP on it.
So there is a reason to use modern programms and file formats, but like everything in live one has to find a good balance that works for you

"The big tech corporations deprecate their stuff intentionally" I guess thats a good thing, it encouragees research and just think about how many developers would loose their jobs lol
So for the IT branche its fine but I do like my old Vespa

@Conjured Entertainment: You are not alone, I and I gess many others, like to get dietracted from new shiny algorithms.
My Model Viewer was a byproduct too, but I use it frequently.
In germany there is a saying "nichts hält länger als ein gutes Provisorium" which means "nothing lasts longer than a good provisional"

Damn that was a lot of wise sayings for my taste
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