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AppGameKit Studio Chat / Added a Request into Github about GPT and its usefull ways

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haliop7
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2023 03:25 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2023 03:26
I ask everyone to go there and have a look.
It might open your eyes.
Also understanding the world is changing. to a point, that creating games will mostly be a hobby, yet experiencing creating games could earn you some credits.
Using GPT or equivalent will have the ability to sell your games, and data and obviously create Triple AAA games on your own with the help of AI.
So suddenly, the simplest version of AppGameKit could be as sophisticated as Unreal PRO,

If you all remember, Nano Canvas, my first REAL CREATION (WHICH IS BTW TODAY ACTUALLY USED IN MANY PLACES)
was about using Human interaction plus Random Infinite State Machines to create Super Mega Textures, like 1000 drawings of NFT in 1 second. I honestly do not know who remembers this.
However, the goal was to create Triple A Games (Graphical Content Wise back then) on my Own.

So, GPT actually enables this for everyone.
I wrote it on Github, hopefully, TGC will appoint someone to it. the minute it is working, AppGameKit TIER 1 is as big as UNREAL and UNITY and much more, even if they use it also, it is basically the same 3 first places, UNREAL, UNITY, AGK. does not matter, as AI will find ways to achieve exactly what you want.

https://github.com/TheGameCreators/AGK-Studio/issues/1083
https://github.com/TheGameCreators/AGK-Studio/issues/1083

Please look at Ai as the Interstellar Robots Assitants (movie) or star wars r2d2 and not as Terminator or agent smith from the Matrix.
Meaning, if you use it, it will help and protect you not hurt you, this DMGING ideas that Hollywood entered our brains, should be released from assistance and stay only in movies.
Ai's are here to help, TGC team, there is no real other way, unless AppGameKit is a Custom made Product that creates Custom made Products only.

However, once you download a nice asset from the web, then it is not so custom made right? GPT is giving a decent chance for everyone to achieve something awesome.
since AppGameKit and GURU have a community since DBPRO and GDK etc, TGC is safe, yet I believe you must enter the AI RACE, as a black belter, I think we think similarly.
Dark_ITheI _Angel
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Posted: 24th Feb 2023 01:46 Edited at: 24th Feb 2023 01:53
I think i understand what you mean and to be honest the only thing keeping me from making an awesome game is programming lol...i get your point yet i dont believe TGC see it your way. Ffs we dont even know where this ship is heading or if it will sink

But should that happen,be it in agk or unity or whatever,that would be a HUGE game changer and to be honest,thats the future.

All in all,i think there are other things TGC needs to figure out if they want to be around the next 20 years and chatGPT cant help them with that.
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haliop7
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Posted: 24th Feb 2023 04:05
You are 300 percent mistaken.
USING AI WILL SAVE ANY PLATFORM OR INFRASTRUCTURE. Whether it is an old Train station that needs some new Simulations to be processed before rebuilding it better, or Traffic Lights, to sum up, statistics and invent that part of the road to win over traffic and air pollution in that junction.

Actually, every COMPANY, that will not use an AI of this sort, is doomed, unless it is a Creative company, and want all of its final product to be hand-human made only, like Maibach.
Also, Maibach will probably use an Ai Simulator to build the new generation cars inside a computer, but then make it a hand job by artists that work out, Wood, Plastic, Iron, Metal, Wheels, etc.
So even though it is a custom-made supercar, it will be calculated by an Ai first, and since my Classified position that I had once, I can tell you for sure, Maibach is already using an Ai simulation, for about 20 years or so. maybe not as sophisticated as we have today, but yeah, you get the point.

You could practically, build a stealth fighter today by simulating all that you need, and letting a 3d printer, some special processing units, and wing and flaps factories create it for you, without them even knowing what you are building, and you can make the Ai order everything is super hash ways, so any kind of bureaucracy is overpassed by the amount of Cash you enter the Ai to spend in order to "Bribe" or find Loopholes to really make it happen.
the Latest Wakanda Forever Movie, shows, "The student girl, builds an Iron Man Suit in her own Garage" the metaphor is, there is no way to Put any kind of Technological Sanctions on Russia or just ordinary people around the world. once Chat Gpt was presented to the public, we can all be like Tony Stark, with a decent Jarvis next to us. (IT is a metaphor, do not take it 100% as a valid thing for everyone, I Know of some computers like Jarvis already working in some Armies around the world, including the UK, Israel, Germany, France, Japan, China, India, USA, etc... ) but now, GPT, made it possible for Public use.

Even if they need help with the Main Core they can ask the GPT to help them.
If they need new features to be done in seconds, GPT can help them.

Open-Ai is giving out APIs to all of your needs, Now that Microsoft bought them, they will be more expensive, but also be more people to work on them.
GPT4 is the next big update, and they say it is incredible.GPT 5 will be even stronger, and at one point it will get to a voice command like this:

"Build me a 2d Platformer where the Main Character is a Ninja and he needs to fight a supreme Cowboy with a red Hat to demolish all evil out of the universe"

It will build precisely that, and it will give you a few examples of it.

So why AppGameKit? not Unity or Unreal?

IT IS A LOW WEIGHT, FAST WORKING, CROSS-PLATFORM, EASY TO HANDLE, FIX AND REVAMP.

I DO NOT THINK, TGC knew about GPT when they started TGC, now, it seems, like they are the only one (that I know off) that made the best decision regarding their GDK.

AS. most companies released about 10 to 50 percent of their employees, TGC kept it like a commandos squad, not even a team, just 3 4 ordinary joes, the idea of not sending salaries for 100 people, paid off.

It is most likely, that the help of any Jarvis-like Assistant (Iron Man) AppGameKit, GAME GURU, and new products to come if any, will keep the Squad small, and us very happy.
Now that there is a Phyton Extension that is kept being updated to the latest core updates, it is safer to say, it will be much easier to use GPT with Python. Therefore, AppGameKit could really really benefit from it.

even if just using Pyhton with Tier 1 as an extra on the side, to connect to much larger libraries, yet keep the "Basic" approach, (which I made everyone who knows I am coding, go insane.. why do you use it why, why!!!)
(" ANSWER, so you won't) haha.

haliop7
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Posted: 24th Feb 2023 04:17
Just one more.

I am watching TGC since the days of GDK.

Not going Ai, will be a huge mistake, both Technologically and Profitable.
Let me rephrase, as I understand what's going on right now, with Tech, I am afraid, that every company no matter how big or small, will not go this way, has lost everything it did.

Facebook, released about 50 percent of its workers or planning 2.
Twitter, Intel, Amazon, Sap, and everyone.. will continue to lose workers, to keep themself profitable.

TGC, pinpointed I think without even knowing, it means, the 4 main members will keep getting paychecks, so they do not need to worry, honestly, I do not know how many people work at TGC.
I enjoy AppGameKit for a long long time now, My games are already shown around the world, with Tech improvements to Consoles and such, and also some missile stuff created here with the Basic language.

So, I think, it is a positive route, Connect us to AI, and charge for extra money.
AGK with Ai, AppGameKit without AI.
monthly or yearly,

My latest app in AppGameKit, made people from my country run to Russia and try to sell it to them, my hard drives computers, and cellular phones were stolen from me, always a good thing to have a Russian connection to laugh about it later.

TGC, I urge you, to feel my heart, and understand, once, AI is implanted and you know and teach how to use it with AppGameKit, Tier 1, and Tier 2, (remember it keeps statistics of your old questions, so it must get better as you ask it more questions)
Every update from that moment will be assisted by the Ai, which means, more updates to the core system, less time breaking heads about it, and even create more positions in your company, like this connection
between a small team and Ai, I think, Lee should get a Dan 2 Black Belt from Intel, just because he kept the company small. (people from the future)

I guess Ai should scare big Companies or more like the employers, all small boutique companies are perfectly safe and can grow from a good starting point.
Zappo
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Posted: 24th Feb 2023 12:25
The problem with AI is that it is only as good as the data it is trained with. If you feed it garbage, you will get garbage out. This has been proven with the current products providing false information and wrong answers to questions.

Adding AI game creation to any system will result in a sudden increase in junk games flooding the app stores by anyone who can type a few sentences. This has been seen with submissions to online artwork selling sites which are filled with AI generated artwork created by ripping artwork from real artists. Also by the story/book publishers who have had to ban AI generated submissions because they have become inundated with mass produced garbage.

AI can be incredibly helpful to predict things and analyse data, but when used in this way it can harm the real creative people who spend time learning, researching, practising, creating and honing their art. Not to mention that much of these AI creations are plagiarising existing creative works which were used to train them without the owners consent.

Personally, I would prefer TGC fixed the current issues rather than add new features which could damage the work of real game makers.
Dark_ITheI _Angel
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Posted: 24th Feb 2023 13:13
@Zappo

Good points,i was reading something like that with sites getting flooded with AI generated things.
Nonetheless, i see haliop7 point and how this indeed could be helpful,i can imagine an AI specific for a certain programm wich is only trained for that certain programm, a sort of assistant fully capable to generate,lets say,code! ..could we say debugger 2.0 ! ... Maybe there is were things are heading,surely for UE5 as a strong candidate.

As for the junk,certainly a good point yet to be honest,the phone apps and game stores are filled with junk too.
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hendron
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Posted: 24th Feb 2023 16:41
Quote: "Please look at Ai as the Interstellar Robots Assitants (movie) or star wars r2d2 and not as Terminator or agent smith from the Matrix."


It's unwise to ignore the potential negative impacts of any new technology. The splitting of the atom gave us nuclear energy, but it also gave us nuclear weapons. It's not really the tech itself that is concerning though -- it's how those in power will use it.

Quote: "I guess Ai should scare big Companies or more like the employers, all small boutique companies are perfectly safe and can grow from a good starting point."


Microsoft, Google, etc are all heavily invested in this tech.

Quote: "The problem with AI is that it is only as good as the data it is trained with. If you feed it garbage, you will get garbage out. This has been proven with the current products providing false information and wrong answers to questions."


Agreed. I could be wrong, but I think these generative models are being a little over-hyped at the moment. Look at the extraordinary amount of data (and computing power) required to get models like Dall-E and Midjourney to the point where they are now, IE able to render decent looking static images that almost always have obvious flaws if you look at them for longer than a few seconds. The tech will undoubtedly improve, but I don't think you're going to be simply typing a few sentences and generating fully animated, coherent sprite sheets or production ready AAA assets anytime soon.

Personally, I don't understand this desire to make literally everything easy anyway. Challenges are good -- they keep our brains healthy. Chronic addiction to instant gratification is already an increasingly serious mental health concern that, left unchecked, this tech could worsen by orders of magnitude. AI systems can and should be used to help humanity. The tech has great potential applications in aiding medical research, automating work that is inherently hazardous to humans, etc, but I don't see the benefit of using it to automate work that people find creatively and intellectually fulfilling.

Quote: "Adding AI game creation to any system will result in a sudden increase in junk games flooding the app stores by anyone who can type a few sentences. This has been seen with submissions to online artwork selling sites which are filled with AI generated artwork created by ripping artwork from real artists. Also by the story/book publishers who have had to ban AI generated submissions because they have become inundated with mass produced garbage."


If game dev ever becomes as simple as typing a few sentences, then I don't think it will be humans making the games anymore. "Prompt Engineering," as some proponents like to call it, would be the fastest automated job in history. Games and any other "content" would be AI generated and piped to us by the same addiction-algorithms that social media companies employ today to keep us glued to their platforms and generating ad revenue while our cognitive abilities decline from a lack of intellectual challenge.

haliop7
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Posted: 25th Feb 2023 04:46
Man... Wow...
Ok.

Let me rephrase everything.

The example of "build me a Ninja game" was just to understand that eventually, it could do it.
Write the perfect AppGameKit code, no matter the tier. create Sprite sheets, sound effects, etc...
so you can then, start developing from a really good starting point, you have it all done, and now the real work begins.

But, you do not have to,
Let's say you built your platformer, but you have some bugs, so you ask it. it answers whether bugs are fixed or shows how to be fixed.
Let's say you want more enemies sprites, just them, nothing else, "Create me a Spritesheet with AppGameKit code attached for a Mushroom warrior, one red, one green, and one purple, purple shots acid"
Let's say you want to understand better how to regenerate a "Runner" kind of map, a solo runner like we know, endless, so it will show you.

By letting the Ai, Simulate for a month or so, AppGameKit code, just let it Try and Catch on its own with all commands available in AppGameKit, it will grow to "understand" how AppGameKit stuff works.

So, let's return to Iron Man.

Tony stark is building a new weapon of sorts to fight an Alien invasion, Jarvis his Ai assistant, is only "Helping" him achieve his goals, it is not a replacement.

Meaning, the Ai is there to help us.

What you guys are saying or understanding from what I am writing, is that you think I want to replace myself with an Ai to build games for me, NO.
I want an Assitant to be sophisticated enough, to help me build better games, to show me new representations of how to use Sprites, how to use Euler Angles, how to create better Shading Technics, how to Save better
Battery consumption and how to run all of my games, on old low-end devices to new devices yet keeping everything on 60 FPS stable, or 30 FPS if I want to save more Battery.

I want an AI assistant, for example, to help me fight cheaters and invaders if I build a Multi-Player game so If kids play my online games, no one can hurt or interfere with the simple task of "PLAYING THE GAME" nothing else.
How to Stabilize more Servers for a better experience and such.

So the "Build me a Ninja Game" is not for selling it on market, but to learn how to build a Ninja Game Platformer, how?

"Build me a Ninja Platformer where the player needs to save the Princess of Japan, and Write Comments for every Line, Explain while a loop and not a while loop where it is set, and show me examples of how to write the same functions differently"

So I will get everything set.

another very good example is:

"AGK assistant, can you teach me to step by step, how I write shaders and connect them to AppGameKit, take into consideration, that I am a noob when it comes to 3d shader math so explain it to me like I am a fourth-grade student in the Southpark Elementry series"

AI is a helper, it is not a replacement. I honestly, find it extremely difficult to keep on explaining it, also to the people of my country, A lot of Hitech people here, but no one seems to get it,
In the AGE OF AI, EVERYONE CAN HAVE THEIR OWN MARVEL FRANCHISE, EVERYONE CAN USE AN AI TO BUILD THEIR OWN MCDONALDS FRACHISE, YES YOU WILL HAVE TO WORK HARDER, AS COMPETITION IS NOW VASTLY MATURED AND MAXED BY THE POTENTIAL OF EVERYONE CAN BE LIKE TONY STARK AND EVERYONE NOW CAN BUILD AN IRON MAN SUIT, SO ALL YOU ARE LEFT WITH, IS, CREATE THE BEST SUIT YOU CAN, BE CREATIVE and win your self a nice Hovering / Flying Tech by your own.

I REPEAT, AI IS NOT A REPLACEMENT, IT IS AN ASSISTANT TO HELP US GROW AND DECENTRIALIZE OURSELVES FROM ANY FORM OF REGISTRATION OR LEGILAZTION, THE OLD WORLD RESTRICTED US FROM EVOLVING.

WE CAN SAY IT IS A FREE WORLD, YET MANY PEOPLE STILL SUFFER, SO HOW COULD IT BE FREE? SIMPLY PUT, NOW THAT EACH OF US CAN HAVE AN AI ASSISTANT, DECENTRALIZATION IS EASIER FOR ALL OF US,
IF WE WERE to,
take it in our farmhouse, it will help us think how to create better revenues from our crops, it will teach us how to use Solar energy better and how to produce and preserve water much faster than anything we can think of by ourselves, but we still have to put the efforts to make it valid, we will still have to plant our vegetables we will still have to cook our food, we will still have to walk to the other side of the farm to check if our compost is ok and even if it helps us write a poem to our wives as not all of us are great in poetry we will still have to write it down nicely on a paper present it to our wife by hand whether we tell her AI wrote it or not, we could do tons of stuff with Ai, right? but we chose it to help us write her a poem, if you hug your wife or you're any kind of spouse, it is your hands, it is your warmth the ai may help you understand that a hug is important, but it will not hug her for you.

BY TGC NOT GOING THE AI WAY, IT MIGHT BE LEFT BEHIND BY ALL OTHER MAJOR COMPANIES THAT WILL.

ABOUT THE COMPANIES WHO FIRED ALMOST HALF OF THEIR EMPLOYEES :

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/09/tech-layoffs-2022.html
haliop7
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Posted: 25th Feb 2023 05:10 Edited at: 25th Feb 2023 05:11
Actually, the response I get here is like I get from my country's people, they are always a bit doll and unsupportive. not thought well, or through, from now on, before you guys make TGC guys leave a good subject for research because of FEAR FROM THE FUTURE or the tools it presents, I will just keep my feature requests on Git Hub, and write everything there inside, hopefully, to succeed in getting an Agreement from dev.

For now, for example, this is how I am using the EDGE browser, Chat GPT on the side, for anything search engines do not find.
You should all try it, it is really fun. My Computer is not connected to any kind of Phone, just outlook emails, there was a guy on the forum that was afraid to enter his phone into Open-Ai login, which was bulls. Your phones are already everywhere, we might just accept, there is no privacy anymore for anyone. like it or not.

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hendron
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Posted: 25th Feb 2023 14:14 Edited at: 25th Feb 2023 14:17
Sorry, it was not my intention to say that you yourself were advocating for game devs being replaced by AIs. I'm presenting a counter perspective, as I think it's important to consider any possible outcomes of such a potentially disruptive technology. The general discourse that I have seen around the internet on this topic has given me the impression that many proponents of this tech do in fact want AI to replace people. I've seen plenty of revelry at the idea of artists and musicians being made obsolete (by AIs that have been trained on their own work no less), and the amount of gaslighting artists have been receiving when voicing their concerns over this is quite disheartening.
haliop7
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Posted: 25th Feb 2023 15:21
It is just the normal fear of advances, as people with horses, saw the first cars... and say wooooooooooo...

Same, People with salaries or any kind of income will always be afraid of something or even someone that will eventually replace them.

Ai, could potentially work it out, that our food, gas, bills, and transportation will be free... (Real deal, people are already working on it).

I think Snoop Dogg can now write one song in the morning, and record it manually as he knows how to. and then randomize it 1000 times and create a collection based on his original, so he can make more money, while the first is the Original, and 999 others, are, the NFT collectible, where it is the same song, just a bit different.

more to it, it will enable Artists to be real competitors, so good, they will have to reinvent themselves, making them even greater artists.

So any counter decision might be an off course to where the future is aimed at, we can not avoid it, same as we must change fossil fuel, cause of Air pollution is keep getting weirder which will make, everything dangerous to everyone, then people will say, but it's not though as a Muscle Car and they want to feel the rush, as it is something they already know, and know how to handle, Like suddenly Hover boards appear, but skaters will keep having their old ones with Wheels.

so Skateboard does not kill people, right? you drive with it. same as a Hover Board, you hover over it, but if you pick it up with your hand and throw it at someone or hit someone with it, it acts like any other kind of wooden stick with Iron attached.

Fear of new technologies, is like Game Guru was suddenly announced, and people said... but what about AppGameKit updates?!!?!
or when DBPRO was neglected towards AppGameKit and Freedom Engine, or when GDK was disbanded completely.

AI will never change our hearts, this is where we Humans rule, so even if I build a Ninja game with AI, I will most likely design and put heart to it, my own, as I will need to test it, over and over again, until it has just the right feel.

it is Like :
Marvel's What If. it is all Cartooned, right? no more Real Actors.. so what? it is still Awesome, and opened possibilities to new "Metaverses" that maybe with Real Actors would cost too much to handle, so yeah...

Do not fear atomic energy as non of them can stop time, Bob once said.
about 5000 Nuclear weapons around us at any time, 3400 of them, are based in 3 major countries, USA, RUSSIA, and CHINA.
they will still probably build stronger weapons although they already can eliminate everyone and turn all sand to ash like 1000 times over again and again.

No need to be afraid, but accept it, as the Next Thing.
What if suddenly, Playstation 6 will create its Games for users? based on all Games from ps 5? then all titles will be Triple AAA games, right? (this is happening as we speak) (Black Ninja Coder once told me shhh)
so what? we can still build our own, being creative being superb with what we do...

Being in this industry for Creativity is the best thing ever.
Being in this industry for profit, is even better, it is the highest most elaborate advanced, and profitable market out there, Gaming passed all other Markets, and now, even Players get paid just for playing, the better Tech, the more money and yes, the Higher the Competition.

But still.
hendron
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Posted: 25th Feb 2023 17:04 Edited at: 25th Feb 2023 17:12
Quote: "People with salaries or any kind of income will always be afraid of something or even someone that will eventually replace them."


It's a legitimate concern so long as people need money to live. Should we stop all progress because of it? No, but I think we should have measures in place to ensure these people don't lose their livelihoods in the process.

Quote: "Ai, could potentially work it out, that our food, gas, bills, and transportation will be free... (Real deal, people are already working on it)."


Sounds great in theory. I doubt big business will allow it. But again, I'm not opposed to considering the positives.

Quote: "I think Snoop Dogg can now write one song in the morning, and record it manually as he knows how to. and then randomize it 1000 times and create a collection based on his original, so he can make more money, while the first is the Original, and 999 others, are, the NFT collectible, where it is the same song, just a bit different."


Again, the tech is not the problem. The way people use the tech is the problem. How many influencers have used NFTs to scam gullible people out of their life savings? The entire NFT and crypto scene is rife with pyramid and pump and dump schemes. Thankfully people seem to have wised up to it for the most part, and this whole "play to earn" nonsense that Ubisoft and other major companies were pushing has failed miserably.

Quote: "AI will never change our hearts, this is where we Humans rule, so even if I build a Ninja game with AI, I will most likely design and put heart to it, my own, as I will need to test it, over and over again, until it has just the right feel."


The exact same thing can be said about artists. They put their hearts into their work, iterating their projects over and over until they have just the right feel. If their creative process can be automated (a big if, we're not there yet), then I don't see why yours can't.

Quote: "about 5000 Nuclear weapons around us at any time, 3400 of them, are based in 3 major countries, USA, RUSSIA, and CHINA.
they will still probably build stronger weapons although they already can eliminate everyone and turn all sand to ash like 1000 times over again and again."


And that's an absolutely terrible thing.
haliop7
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Posted: 25th Feb 2023 17:32
Yep. it is.

But suddenly, we have Hydrogen Engines that could drive from one side of America to the other, just on ... well water... all others particles will be gathered on the road as you drive.

so would you say, that is something that will what? Not Pollute the air.

Agk will have fewer bugs and more fixes and updates, so Ai will not replace but help mods and us, fix stuff.

Hydrogen cars was always a concern because people with Oil Money, and a lot of it, would lose money, some of them are extreme, so most Armies that already knew these technics thought, they will fight them in case that day will arrive, cause no one wants to lose their money for water... like no one wants to lose their money for AI.

but again, Ai fixes bugs faster. Helps you create or retouch content as not all of us are superb artists, helps you document code, and help you find stuff online much faster.

then again, I will always know some people who will have their gasoline car in the garage just so they can Burn some lights and race them to the metal.

so it is like a debate that will never end.

About atomic weapons, today's military Ai (BTW) is maybe one of the threats to those who maybe want to shoot it.
An Ai can learn patterns of Force Movements quickly, to tell you if someone is about to open a Silo or if the Nuclear Submarine did not return home after more than 7 months, so where is it... right?

You can always look at it in 2 ways.

Before the Days of Computers, things were easier, even cars lasted longer.
After the Days of Computers, things are way easier, but competition is suddenly increasing.

So you either sell your wooden toys as you use to...
Or add Smart Lights to your Wooden Trucks and Cars as now they will be niftier and probably sell better, as little kids, like wooden cars and also dancing lights.
Zappo
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Posted: 25th Feb 2023 18:10
haliop7 - Please don't accuse us of not thinking things through or understanding what you are saying. We do. I have created neural networks/machine learning systems, and created teaching materials about them, so I understand how it all works probably better than most.

The problem is that you say you do not want to replace people, but then say you could ask AI to create sprite sheets, music and game code. That is replacing artists and musicians and programmers. You might use what it creates to learn how to do it yourself eventually, but there will be thousands of other people that won't bother learning how to do it if the AI can do it all for them. Using AI to analyse data, make predictions, test system etc. is very different than using it to create art.

Let's take your Snoop Dogg example. What if he makes 1 track and someone else uses it to make 1000 variants using AI and sells them to make money. Shouldn't Snoop Dogg get the money as it was his track that was used to teach the AI? The person using the AI didn't learn how to make music. He took a shortcut by using someone else's talent that took decades of hard work. It makes it too easy to take lifetimes worth of learning and practising and create something you take ownership of, when really you didn't create anything. I am not saying that is how you would use it but many, many others are.
haliop7
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Posted: 25th Feb 2023 18:47
so that is where the NFT if pure, comes in, Then Snoop Dogg who also holds a variety of coins, such as Bitcoin, Ethereum, and DogeCoin, gets his 10 percent, always.
As the Origin is always connected in some fashion to him alone.

Also, today AIs can find out if you used an Original of someone even for 5 seconds, to know if you are overriding copyrights or not.
That was one thing I thought of in the first place in Nano Canvas, when I was creating it, a Cntrl Z until the first edit of the file.
Even if you open it 2 years later, you can see the original creator, it is now a Patent, called, Real-Time File Compression, and Intel is using it.

So, there is still no way to stop this process.
Meaning, you might think, I am aiming for Ai to make stuff for me, maybe just some, little things I will have to retouch and re-edit them probably.
But the main thing I am saying, IF
We Do not do it.
Others will.

Therefore, same as Unity uses Shading Techninc, and Unreal Uses some kind of Bone structures...
Same does AGK. or Same Does AppGameKit SHOULD.

We can say everything in favor, and everything against.
Do we want to be left behind? I do not think so.

Just by Asking "How do I fix this and this, show me examples in all fashions of code"
will probably take all the GitHub Bug Fixes, Requests, etc, and will make the Modders close more and more fixes in a very elegant fashion,
Now, even if it writes code for AppGameKit CORE SYSTEM, the Modders will have to check it, understand it, and decide if to use it or not, right?

so as we, if we are planning on selling a game, or profiting even from Ads, we are most likely to build most of it, use Ai to help us achieve a higher understanding of bug fixes that may already appear in other places, yet finding them alone, can take a lot of time, so basically, these Ai's are using Human Experience, so what is the difference between, searching for a solution to your problem in StackOverFlaw or asking the Ai so it will find it on StackOverFlaw...

I am sorry, I am having a really hard time understanding people who try to stop this progress in one place, whereas in other places other people are going to use it anyway of our debate.

With that said, I am sorry if I sound harsh or not empathic enough, as I know many people who lost their jobs for these advancements, but I also know people who are now learning how to use it and make their products much much better, Like Bing is going to present a new search engine using Open-Ai, we are going to have super fun in searching stuff with it. it will decrease our search time, therefore saving us time, and battery life, and eventually also saving the planet, as we will use less electricity so less pollution due to energy use, same as WAZE or GOOGLE MAPS helps you choose better routes to your destination, overriding Traffic polluting the world much less.
haliop7
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Posted: 25th Feb 2023 19:01
You know what, now thinking about it, I think these Ai's should work, inside Every computer hardware in order to save energy consumption. same as Windows or any other OS, for example, when you open Windows 11 Update, you would see, that they commit to saving energy and polluting less.

So I guess all software should use this, I always try to save battery in my apps, and it teaches me a way to do this very efficiently, which makes it one more step towards robots battery savers, real-life robots that is, as Software is Software, no matter the hardware, every hardware can have a software update, that will use less battery.
Zappo
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Posted: 25th Feb 2023 19:32
Quote: "so that is where the NFT if pure, comes in"

NFT does NOT prevent anyone copying something. It will NOT prevent using the item to teach AI. The output from the AI will NOT contain the NFT information so it won't be traced to the owner of the original material used to teach it.

Quote: "Also, today AIs can find out if you used an Original of someone even for 5 seconds, to know if you are overriding copyrights or not."

No it cannot. There are several systems available that try to detect if text has been generated by ChatGPT but they are very unreliable. Even the one written by the person behind ChatGPT can only give you a rough probability.

Quote: "I am sorry, I am having a really hard time understanding people who try to stop this progress in one place, whereas in other places other people are going to use it anyway of our debate."

It's not about stopping progress. It is about respecting peoples hard work. Just because something is possible does not mean it must be allowed or promoted. The argument that "if we don't use it, other people will" is massively flawed. If we can steal things, should we because other people do? I say no.

This discussion seems to be going around in circles and you keep mixing up the use of AI for researching/searching/bug fixing (analytical uses), and using AI for creating content based on other peoples work without their consent. One is a good use of AI and one isn't.
Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 25th Feb 2023 19:50 Edited at: 25th Feb 2023 19:58
surely this thread is an experiment with GPT ability to initiate dialog, formulate metaphors, and "converse" with humans?

Quote: "It might open your eyes"

my eyes are fine, thanks. why do assume otherwise?

also, bot. ALL CAPS is so 90's. you still have a lot to learn
hendron
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Posted: 25th Feb 2023 20:02
Quote: "I am sorry, I am having a really hard time understanding people who try to stop this progress in one place, whereas in other places other people are going to use it anyway of our debate."


I don't want to stop progress -- I'm not a luddite. I want progress to be made ethically instead of recklessly. I am fully aware that this is probably wishful thinking on my part, however.

Quote: "It makes it too easy to take lifetimes worth of learning and practising and create something you take ownership of, when really you didn't create anything. I am not saying that is how you would use it but many, many others are."


Absolutely. The recent SamDoesArts debacle comes to mind. I hate to think how this is going to effect smaller artists who don't have a giant platform they can use to defend themselves.


Anyway, as one last response to the first post saying we shouldn't pay attention to dystopian sci-fi stories, here's an interesting little excerpt from an 80s Judge Dredd comic..
haliop7
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Posted: 26th Feb 2023 04:21
Quote: "ALL CAPS is so 90's. you still have a lot to learn "
will start my training soon! haha.

ok.
Now, I understand what you all are talking about.

About content creation, When I worked on Nano Canvas, it used an NNW and your own Paintings only, meaning, you had to make the effort to create something using unique brushes and animations.
then the APP, will random it, so basically it is all you. you will then have to choose your best paintings, so the computer will learn.

Mid Journey, for example, shows something that for me is really valid as everything in AI should, true it takes from known projects and master arts of other people, BUT!
it is never like anything created before, making it a new Form of Artwork, that was not seen, and no one could really trace it to the original, HOWEVER, if you used it, you will never have to worry about the Original, as
IT will never be the same, you won't even know where the original came from, and who is the creator of any kind of art that was used in order to create a new sample.
Therefore, even the owner of the original can not know it is his strokes on the paint shop, or even if Devinchi was alive today, he would have no idea that this was taken from his work as it looks too different.
The only thing Devinci would have figured out, is, "ok.. it looks like something I would do" meaning, Themed as something he would do
with that said, how many people saw Devinchi paintings and tried to mimic it? the atmosphere of his art that is, so if someone wanted to create something by his favorite artists or just something that looks like it still does not mean
he was copying it from him, but just learning how to achieve something that someone else really made him feel comfortable and familiar with.

Therefore, Let's go into the Car industry, do not you hate that all cars have a windshield, 4 wheels, doors, and a Gasoline engine?
So then Tesla comes with an electric one, and now everyone has it, is that stealing? or just improving your own factory results into new energy and concepts that might look the same?

Would you say, that all Nascar cars look a bit the same just from different factories or branding?
Would you say, all Airplanes from Boieng to all other factories look the same?

would you say, that if they all have wings, and a cockpit and all cockpits have 500 buttons, probably the same buttons, so what did everyone just steal from the Reich brothers? (I think that was their name)

same with boats, but wait, we all have Laptops, the first one I presume was IBM, so what did anyone steal from IBM?

Do you see my point? even if it is Hand labored it still can be considered a Steal.

How about Marvel and DC? it is a long competition, and every time Marvel created a new Hero, DC tried to Mimic it just giving it slightly different powers and a different name.
If I create a new movie, staring Will Farrel about a really dumb boat idea that can never float and someone else sees it, falls in love with the move, and decided he can do better just with an Animal Robot dumb idea and use another actor, it is basically the same dumb movie idea, both went to Box Office, both made millions, is that stealing? just because the actors were different? and the Script changed? well, Hollywood is making these for years now.
Why? well they make money.

So, my opinion is really solid, USE AI as you want.

But, I do agree with everyone here, maybe the first thing if decided by TGC to go in this direction, is to use it mainly (at start) for bug fixes, feature requests, etc so they would have less time concerning how to fix stuff, more time to actually fix them.


One last note,

Unreal was the first presented Engine for game making that was AAA on the market.
Then comes Unity another AAA just more lightweight, they say, I do not really believe it, both are really heavy.

This is called completion. basically, because Unity was released, Unreal made more money. Competition. that's the idea I am talking about.
If I modeled a really cool 3d warrior, and I can use Ai, to show me different Shader Technics, even if was suggested by people's hard work before, no matter what I do or do not do with it, the Model, the Code, the Game are my own heart and logic, even if it is just Waking up in the morning, saying I have this really cool game idea of bla bla bla, and I use Ai to generate a preview, even upload to Youtube something that was taken from other places but became originally mine, as the idea was mine, plus all content DOES NOT look like the originals.

It is not about not appreciating the hard work of others, if they did not do that work, we would not have AI.
Then again, My Nano Canvas app, which was later Patentised by a stealing "asshole" (yeah I understand everything you say... lost my wife because of that theft.. ) and today is even used inside PS 5 Tech,
I/ just returned from Asia, it was really fun, knowing I got some "Guards" from all kinds of Asian countries. good experience in Asia, you should all go visit, they are Tech savvy.
For example, I did not know, they are giving Mobile Power Banks for 1.5 USD so you can charge your phone on 7/11 and then return it to them. really special.

I am actually fighting a lot of people for that patent theft. but eventually, I realized, I really like to just raise a family, it is more important. regardless of the money issues, smiling and dancing, is funnier.
So it is obvious, I need to find a Ballerina that will accept me as an Ai enthusiast. so I will do more Emotional work, and less talk on the forum about why AI IS SO IMPORTANT TO HAVE, no matter what you do with it, let the people decide, and present it.
smerf
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Posted: 26th Feb 2023 08:02
I use chatgpt daily. It gets some stuff right and some stuff wrong. often my google code snippets are more reliable. But for Producing a lot of code fast that is kinda buggy is great cause u can swoop in and fix a couple errors and your well on your way. I find that chatgpt shines when it comes to asking complex mathematical problems it can answer almost anything. If you ask to to produce code in basic it nearly transferable to agk as well. I do agree chatgpt is the future and it can give 1 programmer the speed of three. It is cost effective and a failing business could fix and push out new software at little cost. I would not compare agk so much to other game engines. It has the potential to be great but it doesn't get any love. It's like an adopted child when u already have 3 of your own. you care about it but not as much as you should agk gets Walmart clothes and game guru gets Nikes. agk is bicycle compared to a motorbike. It can still take u places but not fast, there's no air conditioner or radio, No one joins u for the ride and iy u hit a bump sometimes the front weel rolls off and u flip over onto the cement. It needs Shaders, audio manipulation, texture compression, better file support, bones support, the ability to save an object in a format. mesh manipulation cmds, a basic math library would be nice as well. I feel i only stick around because i enjoy struggling and fear actually succeeding at making something and somewhere deep down i know this might not be the engine for it. But im also getting older and the thought of spending 3 years learning unreal interface to make a basic game sickens me.

hendron
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Posted: 26th Feb 2023 13:34 Edited at: 26th Feb 2023 13:44
Quote: "Mid Journey, for example, shows something that for me is really valid as everything in AI should, true it takes from known projects and master arts of other people, BUT!
it is never like anything created before, making it a new Form of Artwork, that was not seen, and no one could really trace it to the original, HOWEVER, if you used it, you will never have to worry about the Original, as
IT will never be the same"


The fact is that Midjourney, Dall-E, etc are pieces of software that were created using artists' copyrighted works without their knowledge, consent or compensation. It doesn't matter whether or not Midjourney's latent space contains any of the literal data that was taken or not, nor if the images it generates are technically novel. Midjourney isn't a person spending years studying other artists and honing their craft -- it's software, and literal copyrighted data was used to build it. Moreover, that software is designed to directly compete with and undermine the market value of the artists whose work it was built on, capable of imitating their style at several images per minute without the need for compensation. As far as I'm concerned, that's theft -- if not legally (that remains to be seen), then certainly ethically.
haliop7
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Posted: 28th Feb 2023 21:53
you can create your own drawings with the same code.
and run it
Preben
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Posted: 16th Mar 2023 15:50
Why not the other way around , ChatGPT is AppGameKit, Just some fun but it do compile the code ?


Subscribe and checkout great AppGameKit video's here: Videos click here
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best regards Preben Eriksen,
Dark_ITheI _Angel
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2023 09:15 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2023 09:22
There is a video from Unity that they are/will implement this tech,also a developer showing(with bugs) that tech in action,gamesfromscratch have a video about it. There is no question that this technology is the next big step to aid game creators on their journey and am excited to see how EPIC games responds.

One thing is certain,coding is a big thing wich consume years and years of dedicated lerning,also assets to an extent and if that could be cut off in half by the AI,many great things could see the light and not get thrown in the bin.
It dosnt matter how one stand to it,fact is it is here and it is here to help,our creativity should be our limit not the code.
Animals
Kevin Picone
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2023 10:41 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2023 13:31

You already have your very own A.I. assistant(s)...


The FORUMS !




PlayBASIC To HTML5/WEB - Convert PlayBASIC To Machine Code
Raven
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2023 12:22
Quote: "There is a video from Unity that they are/will implement this tech,also a developer showing(with bugs) that tech in action,gamesfromscratch have a video about it. There is no question that this technology is the next big step to aid game creators on their journey and am excited to see how EPIC games responds.

One thing is certain,coding is a big thing wich consume years and years of dedicated lerning,also assets to an extent and if that could be cut off in half by the AI,many great things could see the light and not get thrown in the bin.
It dosnt matter how one stand to it,fact is it is here and it is here to help,our creativity should be our limit not the code."


I don't think most who are excited about this technology, really understand the implications.
GPT isn't like a Coal Miner getting a Bore Mining Machine after using a Pickaxe., because we're not talking about it being used for repetition automation.

What we have is a Search Engine that breaks down requests into their components and through frequency of interaction will assume and assign an accuracy value, this is then used as a series of ground truth sources that are integrated with each other to produce a result that is closer to the 1.0 accuracy for the original search term(s).
Now on the surface it is a collect of common systems that are combined and trained that are producing the results you get...

One issue is that it will always produce a recognisable style...
Seriously., take GPT Derived Artwork; several different requests and compare them, then look at the front page of DeviantArt.
(I know there have been some long talks going on over banning GPT Artwork from DeviantArt...)
Same with Code.

But the other and much more important is that while this has the potential, I've heard of various business' making large numbers of staff redundant in favour of using an internally trained GPT solution... and while sure from one perspective it ends up cheaper to run GPT over having Entry-Level Grunts., the problem is *without* Entry-Level Grunts, you will NEVER get anyone with enough experience to go on to Middle or Senior positions that are still needed.
On top of this GPT is little more than a (clever) plagiarism generator.

You can (ironically) use a GPT to analyse and reverse-trace what original works were used... and again you have an issue that if EVERYONE is using such a tool., you will quickly run out of people producing the necessary work for GPT to source from.
By the time Business' and Individuals *realise* this., it will be too late... there will be a massive gap in the various industries that have adopted it as a Replacement *rather* than a Tool.

@haliop7, GPT will not make you a better Artist, Level Designer, Musician, Sound Engineer, Programmer, etc. and the thing is in order to better Design & Develop; you *NEED* those stills to enough of a degree AND keep those skills fresh in order to effectively produce Software.

What I mean is... what happens when there is a problem that has no obvious solution?
Remember GPT can only produce Solutions based upon Solutions that people have ALREADY produced... it CAN NOT figure out it' own., and IF you rely upon it; you'll never gain the skills, knowledge or experience to create the abstract solutions to a problem that are what drives industries forward.
And unlike evolution where a "Mutation" can potentially be used in an unexpected way to be advantageous... GPT will simply discard such things as inaccuracies.

Look, I don't normally pull up anyone specific... but I've noticed you seem to be overly excitable over "New" Technologies that are popularised without REALLY thinking through the ramifications or applications of said Technology.
Like Bitcoin, NFT, RT Raytracing, etc. these are not magic bullet solution technologies that people like to think they are; neither is GPT.

GPT will make an excellent Search Engine backend., one that is much more noticeable when the algorithm is being tampered with.
Beyond that it has a LONG way to go before there are usable tools to ease the workload of Senior Artisans (Programmers, Artists, Musicians, etc.) and a big reason for this is because it still needs A LOT of work to be used in smaller scale applications to be trained from an individuals/teams body of work rather than an internet of work.
hendron
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2023 13:46 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2023 14:02
Quote: "There is a video from Unity that they are/will implement this tech"

Unity are kinda notorious for adding hype features and leaving them half-baked.

I am by no means an expert in LLMs, but ChatGPT coding seems like a (hit and miss) way to re-invent wheels to me. It can be useful for certain tasks, such as generating standard boilerplate and translating code to different languages, but I don't think it's anywhere near as revolutionary as tech bros and PR teams would have us believe. As far as I know, it's not able to reason about its output at all, and as such will never be capable of generating novel solutions to complex problems on its own no matter how much data you feed it (pretty much as Raven said above). In the instance that it does produce working code, it's because its training set has enough data points to reach that solution -- IE the solution already exists, in abundance, on the internet. Isn't that what libraries are for?
Game_Code_here
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Posted: 24th Mar 2023 02:34
The big problem with AI is it fetches code from the internet and you use that searched for code in your games. It is the same as stealing code without permission to use in your programs and this is tricky. I used some code for my game from another user from there game demo and I asked for permission and they said it was ok as long a i added there name to the credits. This is one thing, And I am still not Shure so I rewrote a lot of code myself as i wanted to learn how to make the game work for myself.

Now if it was not for them i would not have learned what i have and I owe all my learning from that project but we can not say the same thing for AI.

With that being said, I see a lot of law suits coming from code that is well, not there's. Also, when you have a AI programmed to write a game for you , you do not know how to fix errors, hunt down program hiccup's and fix them.

The fun of learning how to code is to well, learn how to code.

I will leave my opinion as it is.
Kevin Cross
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Posted: 24th Mar 2023 09:25 Edited at: 24th Mar 2023 09:26
Now that we can use VS Code with AppGameKit you could install GitHub Copilot to help with your coding. I haven't tried it myself because as far as I know the VS Code extension for AppGameKit still doesn't work on a Mac. You may find though that Copilot probably hasn't had access to many AppGameKit public repositories so it won't have been trained very well for AppGameKit, and therefore might reference AppGameKit commands that don't exist, or write loops in a different format that aren't valid in AppGameKit like a python loop etc. it's still a great tool even taking that into account if you're able to convert what it gives you into working code.

Wouldn't TGC also have to charge us a subscription to use a ChatGPT service that's built into AppGameKit because it would be too expensive for them to offer it for free.

I haven't read all of the posts above as some of them are really long, so no idea if any of this was already mentioned.
Please don't send me private messages via the forum messaging system as I don't get notified, and I don't visit the forum all that much so often see the messages a month or two later. You can find me on the AppGameKit Discord if you want to message me that way.

OryUI - A WIP AGK2 UI Framework
AGK Examples & Mini Projects (GitHub)
Missing AppGameKit Commands (GitHub)

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