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AppGameKit Studio Chat / [LOCKED] Its that time of year again (Google moving the goal posts)

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Zigi
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Posted: 17th Sep 2023 14:12
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Quote: "Sound like you also think that Unity pay runtime license fees for their lifetime installs which is a false statement."

Game installs are counted "lifetime". You make $200k revenue in the past 12 months and 200k "lifetime" downloads. Not sure if you actually have to pay for those "lifetime" downloads but since they calculate with "lifetime" I would be not surprised and some indie dev is complaining according to this new pricing they are going to own hundreds of thousands of $$$ to Unity.

It is disgusting anyway charged from January 1 or earlier.
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MikeHart
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Posted: 17th Sep 2023 15:54
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Quote: "I would be not surprised and some indie dev is complaining according to this new pricing they are going to own hundreds of thousands of $$$ to Unity."

Because they can't read or listen to some gaslighters. The lifetime installs are there for determine IF you have to pay. You only pay for each INITIAL new install done after January 1st 2024. Not for the lifetime installs you had before that date. That is how it is written and also explained inside their FAQ. Not that I care anyway.
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Zigi
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Posted: 17th Sep 2023 19:57
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Quote: "You only pay for each INITIAL new install done after January 1st 2024."

It is true they claim it is take effect only from 1st 2024 but I think the real problem is that they have updated the Terms of Service and removed the clause that lets developers use the terms of an older version of the engine to make sure this new download fee apply to ALL Unity versions. So you can not claim that you are using Unity 2018 and it does not apply to you. It is apply to everyone.
With this modification of the Terms of Service, legally they could potentially charge you for "lifetime" going back years. You are not protected against it anyway.

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EdzUp
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Posted: 18th Sep 2023 19:36
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I think what we all really need is some clarification about the future of AppGameKit and where its going, if its going to be continued or abandoned and where the community goes from here.
-EdzUp
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 18th Sep 2023 21:22 Edited at: 18th Sep 2023 21:26
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The only clarification that we've had is what Lee said in the Gameguru Max broadcast which I mentioned a few posts back. TGC don't have any interest in AppGameKit anymore, they don't make any money from it and they don't have any resource to work on it especially now that Paul has moved on. From what Lee said it sounds like they will release the full source code to the community at some point. I'd be willing to pay for updates, make a donation etc if support is continued provided that my current version carries on working. I don't like subscription models where you can't use the software if you stop your payments.
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kocak
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Posted: 18th Sep 2023 21:44 Edited at: 18th Sep 2023 22:16
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[img]1.JPG[/img]
[img]2.JPG[/img]
Despite making a new export today and trying to upload to googleplay I get the error in the image and my target sdk is 31. I am using appgamekit classic btw, as I understand there hasnt been an update in classic yet. I would really apreatiate an update on classic as earlier as possible.

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EdzUp
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Posted: 18th Sep 2023 22:22 Edited at: 18th Sep 2023 22:22
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@kocak: Classic hasn't been fixed yet only Studio, apparently there is a fix possibly incoming soon for it but as to when it arrives is anyone's guess.
-EdzUp
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 18th Sep 2023 22:34 Edited at: 18th Sep 2023 22:35
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@kocak, see the response to your steam post which refers back to multiple posts in this (studio) thread.
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Lorenzo
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Posted: 19th Sep 2023 14:51
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I’ve finished a few projects in AppGameKit but I can’t publish them because of the delay that PLAYSOUND creates. I’d be willing to pay an annual subscription.
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kocak
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Posted: 26th Sep 2023 21:04
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Does anyone know when can we expect an update? Will an update come before googleplays deadline on our games?
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Motiejus
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Posted: 28th Sep 2023 22:45
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I wish they'd come out with "AGK Studio 2024", even if it's only minor improvements.
I'd buy it again.
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MikeHart
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Posted: 29th Sep 2023 07:12
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They won’t. Accounting to a statement they don’t believe in coding tools anymore. If you are lucky you will get a maintainable update for Studio on Steam some time. That is my take on it.
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 29th Sep 2023 08:12 Edited at: 29th Sep 2023 08:14
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Lee said in this week's gameguru broadcast that people are slowly being migrated from classic to studio and that there won't be any new studio advanced version. I think we will end up with only the studio version for Mac and Windows and these will only be updated for Google and Apple requirements.
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Aidan
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Posted: 1st Oct 2023 10:08
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I don't mind if stop developments on AppGameKit but only for Google package services

It does the job for what I need it for.. what more features could be added (really). I feel they have exhausted everything.

As long as don't take them off steam to be able to purchase in years to come then that will be fine with me
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 1st Oct 2023 17:19
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There are still bugs and a lot of people have spent years developing apps for steam, Google and Apple stores. At least they should fix the bugs even if they aren't going to add any new features.
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Aidan
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Posted: 1st Oct 2023 17:57
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I couldn't help but notice that the last studio update was 25 January 2023. Was this around the time that Paul left the scene.

Maybe they don't have enough developers to replace him to work on AGK.

Maybe we as a community with c++ knowledge could help them out. I'm free for the minute to do any helping out if that is all that's the matter.

I don't accept funds and willing to do it on a back burner of my usual life, as a hobbyist.

That's how faithful I am to a company that is trying their best to succeed.
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 1st Oct 2023 19:57
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No one really knows as TGC don't communicate with the AppGameKit community. I find out AppGameKit information on the Gameguru live stream.
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GemGames
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2023 08:12
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I think that AppGameKit (Classic and Studio) are wonderful products that fulfill a market niche for developers. AppGameKit has become its own unique product without a direct equivalent.

Personally, while I love AppGameKit, I also strongly dislike the SaaS (Software as a Service) subscription model, and I have always historically abandoned any piece of software that adopts this model (unless it also offers an optional perpetual license model or similar). I am not sure what revenue model TGC could adopt to sustain itself if its current model is not succeeding. Possibly, a crowdfunding model using TGC's existing fanbase could sustain TGC financially, with special accessory software bonuses exclusively given to sponsors. But that seems to be almost another form of SaaS. Maybe the establishment of a monetary foundation, similar to Blender's model, could be implemented and subsequently supported by the community / fanbase.

To my knowledge, it is not a foregone conclusion that AppGameKit will become abandoned by TGC. But I am hoping that even If AppGameKit is discontinued by TGC, then AppGameKit could nonetheless continue preserved in some form, especially if it targets relatively static and backward-supportive OSes such as Linux, HTML5 and Windows.

If necessary, some potential alternatives to AppGameKit might include PureBasic, AOZ Studio (essentially AMOS and STOS reiterated), or even FNA/Monogame. But none of these potential alternatives could ever truly replace AppGameKit in its entirety as an exact equivalent, as AppGameKit has evolved over a period of years to become its own unique niche product. Perhaps similar to XNA's discontinuation, something like an FNA / Monogame of sorts could adopt the SDK of AppGameKit in order to preserve AGK's legacy and its future use as a development tool.
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GemGames
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2023 08:28
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For reference if anyone would like to view the GameGuru livecast's Q&A addressing AppGameKit dated September 27, 2023, here are URLs on YouTube with time offsets:
https://youtu.be/BA2tC1jjwF8?t=2693
https://youtu.be/BA2tC1jjwF8?t=3159
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Sph!nx
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2023 10:03
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This thread makes me sad . I love the TGC products but this thread (and similar in the past) makes me doubt if I wish to continue with it.

Quote: " No one really knows as TGC don't communicate with the AppGameKit community. I find out AppGameKit information on the Gameguru live stream. "

And that's the biggest gripe. Trust in the product you work with is important when doing what we do. Just look at the Unity situation for example.
Regards Sph!nx
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GemGames
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Posted: 7th Oct 2023 19:47
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Personally, I am going to continue to use AppGameKit and AppGameKit Studio for the foreseeable future, even if its manufacturer's or user base's support wanes (which is not to say it definitely will wane). Once I find a tool that I really like, if that tool is adequate to fulfill the purpose I have in using it, then I have no reason to discontinue its use.
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Aidan
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Posted: 8th Oct 2023 20:17 Edited at: 8th Oct 2023 20:20
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Like I said before, the product, the features, it's commands are well and truly exhausted to create simple apps.

If ones are engaging into more world map engine games then it may not be for us.

It's a simple game engine which does exactly what it should do to create simple apps like Tetris, frogger, lemmings, small Minecraft, etc

We trying to push it into something that it's not engineered to do or accomplish.

Like also said, as long as don't take it off the market or stop major updates then great.

Hope this makes sense


Aidan
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 9th Oct 2023 19:02 Edited at: 17th Oct 2023 19:14
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@GemGames, I don't think AoZ is a contender, Francois Lionet is no longer involved, they have serious mission creep, they seem to ignore their user base and take offense at constructive criticism and constantly miss deadlines that they set. It is also expensive and their discord channel now appears to be very quiet.
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GemGames
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Posted: 13th Oct 2023 09:05
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@Zaxxan Thanks for the updated info regarding AoZ Studio. I did notice that their boxed edition with a spiral-bound manual was priced very high, somewhere around $500 I believe which is unfortunate. As a former user of STOS back years ago in the 1990s, AoZ as a successor to STOS/AMOS has a certain special appeal to me all its own, but like you mentioned it does not look like much of a contender. I'm surprised Francois Lionet isn't involved in it any further, that's too bad. I don't imagine it will be the same without his involvement.
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 13th Oct 2023 18:16 Edited at: 14th Oct 2023 04:22
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When I started following the AOZ project it was priced at 89 euro for a perpetual license but they just kept on increasing the price and ignoring requests for native app support which was last promised in April. I made the mistake of trying to make them realise that the pricing was way too high and compared it to the price of AppGameKit which is considerably less, is feature rich and supports native exports. They took great offence and were very rude. I'm not surprised Francois has left TBH. AppGameKit Studio is the only real contender now and I hope that TGC continue with their support. The new VSCode extension is great and I use it all of the time now.
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adambiser
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Posted: 15th Oct 2023 20:49
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Will there be an update for this for Classic?
Fascimania games on itch.io | Fascimania games on Steam | GitHub Projects with some AppGameKit Plugins | Since I have been asked, I do have paypal.me.
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 16th Oct 2023 00:00 Edited at: 16th Oct 2023 00:01
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Orvillian said there would be an update in 2 weeks, unfortunately he said that 3 weeks ago.
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Qube_
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Posted: 16th Oct 2023 01:56
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Apps like AppGameKit will always be a niche market which is why I really do think a yearly subscription model would work well for the user base size even if it were just to make sure that the supported platforms were maintained.
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qweQua
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Posted: 17th Oct 2023 19:27
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Any news on a new linux build?
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Aidan
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Posted: 18th Oct 2023 08:15
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Francois lionet founded Clickteam and Klik based products after STOS/AMOS. I think Lee and / or Rick was part of europress too. AMOS marketing / production. Similar to how TGC is built up today

I might be completely wrong though but I think from memory.

Now that is near on 35 + years in game programming.
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 18th Oct 2023 11:50 Edited at: 18th Oct 2023 11:51
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I loved Amos and I have the utmost respect for Francois. It's a shame that AoZ has taken the path that it's taken, if they had kept it simple like how Amos used to be then it would have been a great success. Unfortunately they have made bad choices with the products direction in my opinion.

I had high hopes for it but can only see it failing now, I hope I am wrong though.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 20th Oct 2023 06:50 Edited at: 20th Oct 2023 07:26
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Quote: "That is unfortunate.I am curious as to what everyone will move onto?"


Yes, it is time to move on from Google indeed.
I haven't used AppGameKit for awhile now, and it looks as if I have missed a lot.

Paul left TGC?
Wow

I plan to keep using AGK.
I can continue to develop lots of stuff with the current command set. I'm experimenting with Bluetooth. I know there are no Bluetooth commands in AppGameKit, but Bluetooth can be used when sharing files or text, so there is potential there.

My recent visit to the forums is a result of my current project, which targets old phones as well as new ones. So, I was considering bypassing Google Play Store for distribution for this one. I guess that is settled now. Their monopoly isn't cool anyway. I never liked ads, so the in app purchases are the only thing Google has to offer me. I'd rather not have them controlling my customers purchases anyway. I'm targeting certain religious groups with this app instead of the general public, so Googles distribution isnt critical. I'm not letting Google dictate which development tools I'll be using to develop my apps.

I've sideloaded this app onto the latest versions of Android for testing, without any issues so far. So, I had no idea that this API drama was even happening. No, I haven't published anything to the Play Store in a long time. All of my stuff was probably pulled, but I wasn't keeping up with those old apps much anyway. My latest projects were HTML5 builds, so Google Store wasn't necessary. I should be more active to keep up, but I'm a hobby programmer, so this Google bowing doesn'affect me as much.

Back to the Bluetooth though, local file transfers can happen without the internet, on old phones that don't have active service. Lots of potential there being overlooked, imo.

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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James H
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Posted: 20th Oct 2023 13:38 Edited at: 20th Oct 2023 13:41
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Quote: "I haven't used AppGameKit for awhile now, and it looks as if I have missed a lot."


Seems you are now up to date! Great to see you posting again on here. Many also head over to discord where it is a little more active at times(there is an invite link to the AppGameKit server somewhere on these forums).

Quote: "I plan to keep using AGK."


I still am, only had it maybe a couple of years - getting my money's worth as it is a hobby!

Forgive me I am intrigued, curious and a little confused as to how you will avoid Google play store and how you will target the religious groups...will you be convincing customers to side load, or using html5 again? Was side loading for testing only? Something else?
Edit: Actually just realized this is going off topic so maybe don't respond to that...

Blue tooth is great, I also use it to connect my phone to my tablet so that with a free app I can use the phone as a keyboard(also doubles as a mouse).
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 20th Oct 2023 15:19 Edited at: 20th Oct 2023 15:56
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Quote: "Forgive me I am intrigued, curious and a little confused as to how you will avoid Google play store and how you will target the religious groups...will you be convincing customers to side load, or using html5 again? Was side loading for testing only? Something else?"


Yeah, I didn't mean to go off topic. I was just sharing what I've been up to lately that prompted my forum visit, which all does relate to AppGameKit, which is the topic of this forum.

Anyway, I won't elaborate but I will say that sideloading an APK is just like saving any other file. So, a simple HTML hyperlink can do the job well. It's when you open the APK on the phone that the Android OS will check permissions and give the warning of potential threats since the file is being installed locally instead of from Google play store. As long as they set the permissions for installing (even only temporarily for that install) then it will install the app on the phone. Even big Corporations have their users side load their apps, like Amazon Flex Drivers.

Yes, I just load my APK straight from the desktop to the phone via the USB port for testing. Loading the finished file for users is just as easy. Again, just a file transfer. So, by distributing the files myself, I have full control of everything like an independent developer should. You just have to develop a script or two on the server to handle the payment notifications, but for free apps it is just another download.

Yes, if users want to use my app, then they have to get it from me. Not offered on TV, not offered on the Play Stores, not sold pn Amazon or at Walmart. They will have to download the APK from the website domain i have established for that particular app.

Okay back on topic, and I will put a link for beta testing for anyone interested once I reach that stage. I don't want to give anyway any more details anyway because it is steered at religious groups and i dont want to discuss that topic here in any kind of detail (just mentioning the apps target market niche), but it should be fairly interesting. It's good to be back, thanks.

Edit
Besides, we didn't really go off topic, since we avoided the the religious details. (You'll see how they are targeted on release). Surely chatting sbout sideloading apps to avoid Google Play Store restrictions pertains to a thread about Google play store restrictions. Again, no intentions to go off topic, sorry if it seemed that way.

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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James H
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Posted: 20th Oct 2023 15:50 Edited at: 20th Oct 2023 15:54
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Thanks for all the info -very interesting. So, keeping this on-topic; how would AGKS updates affect that delivery method? For example a minimal update to keep up with store requirements that would not otherwise affect commands/functionality?

Edit Okay I worded that wrong - what I mean is in the event the store puts out a requirement as i just described and AGKS does not get an update quickly, would the said delivery method negate any concern?
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 20th Oct 2023 16:07 Edited at: 20th Oct 2023 16:40
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Side loading the App doesn't involve the Google Store, so its requirements, or AGKs update to address said requirements, are irrelevant and have no effect on my delivery method.

The only concern is with Android (google) changing its policy on sideloading apps with a new version of the OS. Some AppGameKit commands only work on Android 9 or less because of OS changes in file storage. So, it's the OS, not the store, that can be a concern. I doubt they ever attempt to block side loading apps though. I think we'll be okay, and especially if we stick to existing technology instead of their latest technology requirements. My oldest phones still work, and I can go back to what 4.6 or something, depending on the commands being used...not that i want to revert in technology, just acknowledging the number of old cell phones in the world today (billions) that can be utilized with the AppGameKit commands we currently have at our disposal, regardless of future updates.

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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snaidamast
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Posted: 27th Oct 2023 19:04
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From what I am reading in this thread, AppGameKit and AppGameKit Studio appear to be heading for a dead end.

It is too bad, if this is true, as I always though the TGC tools had a lot of potential for new game developers, while the AgkSharp and Python Extensions added a lot of capabilities so one could just develop with the engine alone.

With the modernization of the Godot and Defold engines, I would think that the TGC Team would want to take a similar path but unlike these two engines, maintain the TGC Engine as a separate module to greater set of tools. This would allow for greater extension development.

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snaidamast
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Posted: 27th Oct 2023 19:04
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From what I am reading in this thread, AppGameKit and AppGameKit Studio appear to be heading for a dead end.

It is too bad, if this is true, as I always though the TGC tools had a lot of potential for new game developers, while the AgkSharp and Python Extensions added a lot of capabilities so one could just develop with the engine alone.

With the modernization of the Godot and Defold engines, I would think that the TGC Team would want to take a similar path but unlike these two engines, maintain the TGC Engine as a separate module to greater set of tools. This would allow for greater extension development.

Steve Naidamast
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 27th Oct 2023 19:36 Edited at: 27th Oct 2023 19:56
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here's a brand new agk feelings and future thread because there just aren't enough.

the original issue here was resolved, with the most-current related news on the classic front here.
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