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AppGameKit Studio Chat / The future of AGk - views and opinions

User Banned
Posted: 7th Nov 2023 22:00 Edited at: 7th Nov 2023 23:20
We have to remember we had just Paul, one man band that brought us AGK. This concludes one less man band now left. How can one survive if the master of AGk has left.

We should all understand that understanding ones man's code will take a while. Preban/ovillion/Jambo are maybe too busy with other projects of TGC.

Time is the essence. But please don't worry, AppGameKit is not the end.

Any issues or feature requests please follow the GitHub way.

Im happy to help if I could

Remember the compiler is copyrighted and not disclosed any further by tgc

If there are any c++ programmers out there, I'm sure they will be appreciated. Just inspiring programmers to make this work..


That's why they going community based

So you can programme yourself, tgc has given us a starting ground.

They are struggling, if one off life time life long purchase.

Can we support TGC with subscription based ?? It's only fair??

What would you do if a company ,?

You like to make your company right ?

It's only right ,!!!

I'm sure tgc likes life.long aspiring programmers with love for AGk any that makes progress.

This is now a feedback of who wants to help out - yes even in your spare time

This is time to express your skills

Edit...?? Who is up for the challenge to make AGk happen

Years of Service
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Joined: 12th May 2018
Location: Nova Scotia
Posted: 8th Nov 2023 00:55
I agree with the sentiment that the software needs a periodic release cycle. Especially with the Unity pricing fiasco, AppGameKit could benefit from a renewed push as an indie alternative.

There must be some business case for announcing a new version of AppGameKit, officially discontinuing AppGameKit classic, and putting AppGameKit Studio in maintenance for a set date. Maintenance costs get reduced and fresh product line for revenue?

As an indie developer that can take a long time with projects I am at a bit of cross roads.
Automation on Steam now!
Score Table Jr. on Google Play!
Years of Service
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Joined: 4th Jun 2018
Posted: 8th Nov 2023 02:51
In my opinion, this has huge potential to get AppGameKit into the hands of the community I think AppGameKit competes in the space of engines like XNA, Monogame, libGDX, LOVE2d, ect

And AppGameKit is much more complete in terms of functionality, and that's why I use it, however there are many people who think that AppGameKit is a BASIC and not a complete tool for game development, and I think this was a marketing failure. This, this right here is the problem, the way people from outsite of the TGC software users think

the only thing that AppGameKit really lacks in comparison to these other engines is that it doesn't support consoles, something that could change now in open source.
User Banned
Posted: 9th Nov 2023 19:29 Edited at: 9th Nov 2023 19:49
There are many more of us here I'm sure that loved programming in AppGameKit, we build emotions of some sort don't we, to contribute to make a company TGC move forward.

I must not let AGk go, its an amazing product, even if it's just designed for simple tasks like the driving test episodes.

It just creates simple but good apps quite nicely.

Any app doesnt need to be full on, like rockstar but if it does what it says on the tim then I'm happy,

In the past we did try and make it work hard for us, and acheivable

Anything is possible with it, just need to learn how memblocks and chunks work better - this is the principle of world games - any game.

Then we will get the real true value of what AGk can really do
Years of Service
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Joined: 16th Oct 2018
Posted: 9th Nov 2023 19:48
It appears to me that TGC as a company may be in some form of decline...

With the increasingly popular Godot Engine taking center stage for freely available engines that are also Open Source, how can TGC hope to compete with their current lineup of tools?

I believe the TGC emphasis on Game Guru Max is misguided since that is not an avenue most other engine producers are following, while they also provide similar but maybe more complex implementations that allow for first-person-shooter development.

I believe that TGC should take another look at its basic game engine and consider using it as a basis for a completely new product with the additional features that the other engine houses are producing.

Even though I have purchased a copy of AppGameKit Classic, for what I want to develop, I don't believe it has the memory capabilities within the language to support my project development. As a result, I have been using MadBit's, AgkSharp, which is a terrific sdk for the TGC engine that allows us .NET developers use an engine that has decent documentation and is comparatively easy to work with.

Right now the ease-of-use is of the AppGameKit Classic engine is its greatest strength, which I believe TGC should be relying on for a new product path...

Steve Naidamast
Sr. Software Engineer
User Banned
Posted: 9th Nov 2023 19:57 Edited at: 9th Nov 2023 21:05
Thank you for your update @snaidamast. Tgc may be of decline, they rely on people of the world paying a one off lifetime cost for a product.

Once all the people have bought it - now what ?

5 or 10 years of a lifetime purchase of a product, do we think it's ok to carry on with updates.

Decline is lack of money,

Result I feel is subscription model.

TGC : don't be frightened to suggest a price, if ones love your product, then we wouldn't have any problems. Of ones don't wanna pay then terminate the app.... Autodesk does this with ease

Nothing is for free anymore but supportive growth of any company that made us successes already then I'm gain

Who is with me?

Studio V2 supported for subscription

Classic and studio V1 non supported and discontinued but available

We need to work something out - time moves on

Even if it's £50 a year, we have to support programmers and company that is providing us with an amazing product.

How much is unity per month when it comes

How much is unreal engine already. (Blooming expensive I expect)

What would you do???

Like said before

Does AppGameKit do what you need it to do?
Have you created some good stuff with it? I've certainly seem some in showcase
Have you made pennies from it?

Let's be positive and supportive

Unsupportive vibes made them go to game guru where their was positive vibes. Any one needs a positivity in life or company.

Think !

They made things for free, supportive programmers and we just taken it for granted. They tgc needs money to pay the programmers, web (this site,), mods don't they.

Are you supportive


AGK Developer
Years of Service
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Joined: 17th Nov 2020
Location: England
Posted: 10th Nov 2023 03:25 Edited at: 10th Nov 2023 03:28
I haven't got a problem paying £50 a year for updates but if I decide not to pay any more then I expect the software to carry on working in its current form. Perhaps feature updates could be sold as DLC.

I doubt any of this would happen though as they don't have anyone to work on appgamekit now that Paul has left. Orvillian helps but I believe his primary task is working on the driving test programs which make considerably more money than appgamekit.
Dark_ITheI _Angel
Years of Service
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Joined: 3rd Sep 2002
Posted: 10th Nov 2023 18:01 Edited at: 10th Nov 2023 18:44
A Subscription may not be the best path for TGC, i dont believe that would work out for many reasons,one being Constant Development, not only Support.
Open Source the same,It would go the same path DBpro did.

I believe TGC is well aware of all of this but till now they still here,thats a good thing!
Sadly just staying a programming lenguage dosnt add enough value for me, nor does a First Person Shooter Only Game Engine.
And exactly That is the problem and why they cant break the wall.
Years of Service
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Joined: 4th Jun 2018
Posted: 10th Nov 2023 18:38
To be honest, I wish TGC used more of its own software
They should create games with AppGameKit or Game guru, That way they would even better understand what is needed to improve, And they'd make some money in the process
User Banned
Posted: 11th Nov 2023 19:20 Edited at: 11th Nov 2023 19:39
Thanks guys so far, I know there are more of you out there,

Everyone is welcome to express their views on this topic.

Last time I seen, 270 anonymous of us in last 15 mins

How strong you feel for AGk.

Look at what we can do

- lemmings
-mini Minecraft
- 2048
- carvup
- frogger
- object loading and exportation .obj

I will not let this die

It's endless
Years of Service
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Joined: 31st May 2018
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posted: 11th Nov 2023 20:59
Quote: "I believe the TGC emphasis on Game Guru Max is misguided since that is not an avenue most other engine producers are following, while they also provide similar but maybe more complex implementations that allow for first-person-shooter development."

That is an excellent point. I am hoping that TGK shifts its core product back to AppGameKit from GameGuru.

On another note, I am also hoping that TGK moves in the direction of creating and selling additional software items which revolve around its core AppGameKit product, almost what like DLC expansion levels are to a core base game.

These modular enhancement software libraries could be sold for additional revenue, especially to AGK's already-established core audience of long-term, loyal buyers / users. While TGC have already produced some accessory editors like its particle editor and level editor, there is still room for additional enhancement software for its core AppGameKit product. Even additional command libraries could be sold as modular enhancement accessory software, rather than offered as future free upgrades (which have always been greatly appreciated). It seems to me that the established user base of AppGameKit is eager to continue to financially support TGC, but under the right conditions.

As good examples of peripheral accessory products, I think of long past products like Activision's Garry Kitchen's Gamemaker, and Mandarin Software's STOS/AMOS. These were all, like AppGameKit, excellent products, superb products. But an interesting aspect of these products was that they offered optional enhancements which could be purchased, and which depended on the core base product in order to function.

For example, "Sprites 600" was a STOS modular enhancement in the form of an optional graphics library. It was not needed to use STOS, but it was a welcome addition. Other STOS modular accessory expansion software items were also available as additional purchases: STOS Maestro, STOS 3d, STOS Compiler. Excellent marketing, as the expanded product line in this form not only appealed to recruiting new customers, but also and especially "enticed" its already-established customer base to purchase additional software, while not detracting from its core product STOS, but rather reinforcing its core product STOS.

Garry Kitchen's Gamemaker (GKGM) did a similar approach: Activision produced the sci-fi library and the sports library which could be purchased separately to enhance the original core base product. As I recall in an interview, Garry Kitchen himself once commented that he regretted that they never created a sequel or an enhanced version of the original GKGM, which he felt had great potential to expand from its original specifications / capabilities.

Finally, the software license / EULA of AppGameKit is mostly good just as it is I would think. I think of Borland's "no nonsense license" from past years as an outstanding example of what should be, but sadly is not, a commonplace license agreement for the end user of software. For more information on Borland's historic license, see this link:

Back then there were to my knowledge no SaaS (software as a service) or software subscription services, but rather only perpetual one-time licenses. In order for a software company to survive, while also being fair to the end-user / buyer, a perpetual license is given instead of "software as a service". To this day, similarly Corel offers its software in both models simultaneously: a subscription service model, but also optionally a perpetual license model. This is better than Adobe's offering of solely SaaS which Adobe imposed on its existing customer base years ago, even amidst strong protest from a portion of its then-existing customer base (many of whom I assume have since abandoned Adobe in favor of other FOSS or other vendor alternatives with superior licensing terms). In order to survive and thrive, a software company must continue to produce and sell software. If a core product succeeds, then additional peripheral modular enhancement extension products can be developed and published, to (ideally, hopefully) ensure that product's longevity, while remaining fair to its buyers who actually own a purchased copy of the software. It seems to me that SaaS undermines this arrangement and ultimately hurts both sales and customer retention/loyalty in the long-run. SaaS ensures that buyers/customers never actually own their software which they cannot purchase, but can only rent.

Anyway, that's my humble opinion and my "2 cents worth" of advice and hope for the future direction that TGK takes regarding AppGameKit and in general. I hope some of this is helpful, thanks!

AGK Developer
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Joined: 10th Dec 2014
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Posted: 11th Nov 2023 21:37
AGK is a pure joy of programming for me. Programming in another IDE and another language is more of an ordeal for me. But AppGameKit is a joy.

I don't understand the economics. And I don't see them. But what I do see is a lot of - don't be angry - trivial oversights and unheard good advice.

Let me summarize briefly.

To re-develop AppGameKit Studio when there is the excellent AppGameKit Classic was a huge waste of energy and possibly money. I still use AppGameKit Classic and it is clearly superior in many ways.

The creation of a classic GUI for applications is still lacking. Games are easy to make in AGK. But to make a simple app where there is a list, a few simple elements, scrolling text, a map, etc. seems like an unsolvable problem.

AGK still doesn't have a logo or a language name, it doesn't have that classic brand that one can identify with. Whenever someone asked me, I found it difficult to explain to them what it was all about when it doesn't even have a language name. Even if it's called "Monkey-X" it's still better than "AGK Script" etc.

Fingers crossed that AppGameKit continues in the spirit we're used to! There's nothing better and it just needs to be marketed well Thank you for your work!
I am sorry for poor English
Years of Service
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Joined: 8th Aug 2014
Posted: 16th Nov 2023 12:21
With fear in my body I don't know what to do, should I go to Unity? Should I stay and see what happens? They say they won't continue adding content (I'm not worried about that), but will they continue to update the system to meet Android and iOS requirements as needed? I feel very comfortable in AppGameKit but this doesn't look good at all.
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Joined: 17th Sep 2023
Posted: 17th Nov 2023 17:20
AppGameKit Studio
on sale for $25.00 at GreenManGaming
use coupon code "NOV17" to bring it down to $20.75
User Banned
Posted: 17th Nov 2023 19:37 Edited at: 17th Nov 2023 20:07
Thanks all for your inputs so far - more than appreciated

Note: majority have suggested to go community based, including TGC

Not many of the new comers come to experience AGk are familiar with c++ language to go Tier mode.

Will have to account for these members otherwise we are removing it from the beginners that want to learn to code

Did I read years ago that AGk was introduced for education too.

If they brought it into c++ community based, then that will upset the next generation to help code a basic game with no hassle of college to learn programming like us.

Very bad idea if ask me, just hope they can just keep the Google apis updates going and keep it on market.

It will deny it for the beginners coming all the time.

Hope that makes sense
Years of Service
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Joined: 5th Jul 2009
Posted: 29th Nov 2023 22:39 Edited at: 29th Nov 2023 22:41
Every single time this topic comes up, lots of opinions shared regarding what TGC should have done or should be doing, but not much regarding what the community could have done.

I think AppGameKit is a fantastic programming tool but the primary reason I stopped using it years ago was lack of good quality libraries. If you look around, all programming languages has an extensive library of 3rd party code while AppGameKit has 0.
As much as I do enjoy coding and develop my own systems, there are times when I get tired of re-inventing the wheel and those days I like to experiment with the code of other people and in some case I do stick with it. However, not so sure why but the AppGameKit community didn't do a great job sharing good quality libraries.

For the most part we got stick whatever AppGameKit comes bundled with, but if the community did a better job at sharing libraries of their own, then TGC could have focused on the core product only while community take care of all the rest. But it is never happened.
What seems to be everyone was woking on is language bindings for Python, Lua, Java, Kotlin, C# which is nice, don't get me wrong, but instead would have been nice if AppGameKit Tier1 language would have received more modern features. This one mistake TGC might did, they have never shared the source code of Tier1. Maybe they should have, then instead of all these awesome language bindings we could have had a more modern Tier1 language.

I also agree on that the Tier1 language never had any official name or logo is a mistake. No idea why it was never called agkBASIC or something instead of Tier1.

I also agree on that TGC should have used AppGameKit to create their own products, like GameGuru for example. But to this day, I have no idea why TGC decided not to make GameGuru in AGK. I have mentioned this to Lee and he said AppGameKit is not mature enough for GameGuru, which I have never understood what he really meant. Look at GameGuru Max now, using a completely different codebase, AAA graphics, the system requirements practically compete with Unreal engine but it doesn't have any advantages over Unreal and AppGameKit is dying due to lack of attention and poor marketing over the years.

AGK Tier2/Tier1/GameGuru could have been such a fantastic toolset targeting everyone, no coders, visual artists, code ninjas and people prefer simple scripting. All in one tool family. I am so sorry TGC choose not to go down on this path.
Dark_ITheI _Angel
Years of Service
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Joined: 3rd Sep 2002
Posted: 1st Dec 2023 20:00
I was thinking where is that guy with the yoda avatar and the good arguments. Used to read you often in this forum..

Quote: " All in one tool family. I am so sorry TGC choose not to go down on this path.

Exactly that!
A one tool for all,that gets expanded with each update. For now we are divided in code gurus or stupidly easy first person shooter maker.
I aint going to pretend i know the market or their real situation,but with over 2 decades knowing TGC and seen,i wish they would have realized that and looked a little more on the competition.

But well,its not like they dont have the know how to change it but to be honest and i dont mean it in a bad way,but if they dont change something am sure 3 decades i aint going to see them and they will run out of business and am afraid GGMax aint their game changer.


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