Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / Reguarding Eternal Destiny

Author
Message
John H
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Oct 2002
Location: Burlington, VT
Posted: 4th Jan 2004 17:55
Link
Hey all, just thought Id tell you something.

Recently, the Team Request forum has gone to heck. Everything there is either a flamefest or just some crazy idea. Its full of noobs and crits that dont know how to crit. To those of you who post there with detail, thank you.

It seems that whenever I post an Eternal Destiny Team Request, it turns into a flamewar because 'the media suxx' Well, why do you think I am there requesting 3D/2D help!

Frankly, Im sick and tired of the same thing over and over again.

"Your media sux"
Me: "How so?"
"Its just not good"
Me: "Well that doesnt help very much, but I am requesting 3D/2D help arent I? The media may not be so great, but the engine is very very far into production, not to mention our finished documents"
"Well your media sux so your game must suck so Im not joining"

Bah!

So, Im standing on the edge. I am very close to not posting any more information here about Eternal Destiny. Future posts will be done at RGT, as I view that community as more mature, and skilled (no offense to those oldbies still here) And when I post there, I get more constructive critism, and much better help. Usually no flaming at all.

Once again, thanks to all those who have been helpful. But for now, the future of ED and Apollo looks pretty grim, unless I see some incredible changes.

RPGamer


We need help! Email us! join@eternaldestinyonline.com
Back to top
Profile PM
Megaton Cat
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 4th Jan 2004 18:03
Link
Nooo rpgamer!!!
It can't end like this! I..I..I really liked ED! I want to help! Please!


http://www.excaver.com/dbg
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Megaton Cat
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 4th Jan 2004 18:15 Edited at: 4th Jan 2004 18:18
Link
To add more, I completly agree with you. ED is quite possibly the only real RPG in development that shows results. I mean I see how serious and organized you are about this. You are planning ahead and not just blabbing features of the top of your head like some people (Will feature TONS of cities and will be a MASSIVLY MULTIPAYER RPG!)

If ED were to be dropped then it would't just be another half-assed pile of code that some noob just got bored with, it would probably be some DB veteren game and your efforts will always be remembered. (Don't drop this though!)

Yes the team request boards and at this point are 90% non-sense, over-hyped newbies, and fake promises and companies (I'm a proffesional programmer with my own company, anyone up for a MMORPG?) it gets more disappointing every day, and to tell the truth I'm rather annoyed with how you akways have to say "Please provide more info on your game or this will be locked" to every single damn thread to every single damn noob that doesn't read the rules.

I would love to help & support with this porject and make sure none of the retads that lurk around here get to ya.


http://www.excaver.com/dbg
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
MikeS
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Dec 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 4th Jan 2004 18:24
Link
If people realized that making a mmorpg they'd be

Playing 5% of there time
Continuing with support and bug/hack fixes 40%

Wow, that leaves a whole 45% of there life to sleep,eat,and do other stuff. Not to mention you have to have some sort of stable server to host the game.(That means, buying a really fast server, and hiring a technician(Or take %30 more of your time) to look after it.)

One of these days, I'm just gonna have to write a book about Game Design, and what I've read about how the industry works.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Eric T
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Apr 2003
Location: My location is where I am at this time.
Posted: 4th Jan 2004 18:28
Link
ugh..sadly the team request boards have become what i create every sunday morning(a pile of sh*t for those of you who did not get it).

Frankly i thought Dean looked damn good (and i saw him in and out...lol, i even played dress up, 4 times (ty Westren Digital and Bill gates for making it 4 times)...lol) and that seagull, the seagull is my god.

But for a Project like ED, i would say goto gamedev.net and post there, you might get some good help there....

If i ain't here, i'm probably playing DOA2 Hardcore on the PS2
Former name : Liquidz_Snake
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Megaton Cat
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 4th Jan 2004 18:30 Edited at: 4th Jan 2004 18:34
Link
Good point Yellow, I bet half the people here who claim they want to make a MMORPG don't even know how a game server works...(not that I do)

EDIT: How about this...why not just ban MMORPGS from the team request forums all together? I mean it's quite pointless in trying to make it at our level...


http://www.excaver.com/dbg
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Mattman
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Jun 2003
Location: East Lansing
Posted: 4th Jan 2004 19:30
Link
dont leave us!!

I am mischeivious
RoooooOoooooKoooooKoooooRoooooOoooooKoooooKooooo!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
DrakeX
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location:
Posted: 4th Jan 2004 19:40
Link
"Whats RGT?"

the other db forum but it's not just DB anymore. and it's not very busy at all anymore which sucks, because i'm an RGTer.

athlon xp 2000+ | radeon 9500 pro 128mb | 512MB crucial DDR | winXP pro | DBP P5.1b | B3D 1.85 | VC++ 6
predicted DBP P6 release date: March 28, 2004
predicted patch DBP will actually be useful: P18
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Megaton Cat
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 4th Jan 2004 19:42
Link
Yea stay, LLRGT is to damn quit.


http://www.excaver.com/dbg
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
mm0zct
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Nov 2003
Location: scotland-uk
Posted: 4th Jan 2004 19:45
Link
please don't go the ED project is great and looks to be one of the best things i have seen made in dark bacic. i have been trying to follow the project because it is so interesting and profesional but unfortunately i can't help with it, it's out of my class, i can't model or animate but tell me what sort of things you want for 2d and i'll give it a try. no promises it'll be any good though.

http://www.larinar.tk
AMD athlon thoroughbred 2200, 512Mb ram, 40Gb HD, ati saphire radeon 9600 atlantis w/128mb ddr ram, good creative-labs soundcard, cd-rw + dvd drives.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 4th Jan 2004 20:43
Link
Yeah I noticed that team requests are flamed all the time even by mods. I find that a bit confusing. Surely there are more useful things to say than to flame people. I don't even know why there are rules for posting team requests, that seems a bit OTT.

Pincho.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Megaton Cat
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 4th Jan 2004 21:44
Link
What you people consider "flaiming" is very narrow.


DB generation: http://www.excaver.com/dbg
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the Matrix Reformated
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 4th Jan 2004 21:54
Link
RPGamer, I know exactly what you mean. And frankly, a good engine with bad media is what should impress people, not the other way around!

LLRGT is not much better IMO however. You get a few more oldies there, but from what I've seen it's generally a very elist atmosphere. No offense to the people there; to an extent that is understandable. Maybe you're considered 'in' by them, I don't know.

Good luck with your game.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
Back to top
Profile PM
John H
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Oct 2002
Location: Burlington, VT
Posted: 4th Jan 2004 22:59
Link
Guys, Im not leaving the forums, I just dont think I'll be post much more about ED here. Not gonna be dropping ED, just not posting about it here on the forums.

Thanks all, Ill still alert the community of demos and what not, and if I do get some help with media, and after getting it crit.'ed at LLRGT, Ill post it here.

Its mainly Team Requests and the unuseful criticism that has lead me to this decision, but I think it is better.

Cya


We need help! Email us! join@eternaldestinyonline.com
Back to top
Profile PM
Dr OcCuLt
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2002
Location: a Dark Deep Dark pit, it dark in here
Posted: 5th Jan 2004 00:10 Edited at: 5th Jan 2004 00:16
Link
we real need to find a semi-pro forum were we can post Team Request and get help and we can post on there. part of the thing is that there are not a skilled people on this forum, yes we have a lot of good programers but. we need models and arts and yes there some good people but there just not as may as there needs to be.

ps
can some one lock all but one of the posts in the Team Request forum by gentry_joey,Transworld Punk 69,CMC 101 becos that have 4 REQUEST and thay do`t need them all and there just cloging up the forum

--Dr 0--

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
UnderLord
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Aug 2003
Location:
Posted: 5th Jan 2004 03:52 Edited at: 5th Jan 2004 03:54
Link
RPGamer - I'd help you if i could draw worth a damn =( i can make some 2d stuff but not any good stuff. Your game looks promising and it would be a super help to most people if you made it (or some of it) open source we need more open source games here not enough of them and tutorials are useually vauge. but anyhow good luck pal you look like you could 700% pull this off and it be the best game ever...or close to it! =)

Oh yeah btw i don't think the graphics suck that bad they look perfectly fine to me...could they be better yes...but the graphics don't really make a game good...

What makes a game good is if it gets your imagination (err spelling) going while you play the game thats what makes a game good like the fallout series. good luck to you =)

I change my Signature every two weeks....or...so...
Back to top
Profile PM
Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 5th Jan 2004 04:28
Link
If only we could rename 'Team Requests' into 'Pointless Waste of Time' and still get all the idiots to post there, and all the intelligent members would read it for what it really was and post in DBP General Discussion. Sigh.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
Back to top
Profile PM
UnderLord
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Aug 2003
Location:
Posted: 5th Jan 2004 04:32
Link
Or rich could just make a forum called FLAME ME!!! and get all the morons to post there...same effect almost though...

I change my Signature every two weeks....or...so...
Back to top
Profile PM
Shadow Robert
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 5th Jan 2004 04:54
Link
Hahaa Eric... you only go once a Sunday? damn your weeks must be agony

LLRGT is getting confusing for me again, it seems to quiet; and all they're doing is bitching about things again.
I'd say just to get yourself some graphical help, don't bother with team request boards; i'm begining to wonder why we even have them here, no one takes them seriously most of the time.


Detonating a nuclear device within the city limits results in a $500 fine!
900mhz|256mb|FX5200Ti 52.16|Dx9|WXP-Pro
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
John H
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Oct 2002
Location: Burlington, VT
Posted: 5th Jan 2004 05:00
Link
Yea I found out LLRGT is a bit slow now Not like the old days.

Anyone have any good areas to request teams? The GameDev.net board seems a bit active, but the post has 60 hits and 0 replies

RPGamer


We need help! Email us! join@eternaldestinyonline.com
Back to top
Profile PM
John H
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Oct 2002
Location: Burlington, VT
Posted: 5th Jan 2004 05:02
Link
Ive really been trying to get better at 2D. We have a new site design in progress (due out in about 3 or 4 weeks, will be using a render of a scene which will take about 2 weeks to complete, then about 2 more weeks of coding and setting up the site) so I made the text that will go over the topbar.

Personally? I love it. Its really my only 2D work that Im pretty happy with.



Crit?

RPGamer


We need help! Email us! join@eternaldestinyonline.com
Back to top
Profile PM
JoelJ
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Sep 2003
Location: UTAH
Posted: 5th Jan 2004 05:37
Link
i like dis one:


i think they should get a few TEAM REQUEST mods in there, give it a few weeks of slapping the newbies around, then it will be fine...I think that we just need a few mods that a speciallized (bah, couldnt think of a better word) in the Team Requests.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 5th Jan 2004 06:04
Link
I like it, RPGamer. It's far more original than the 'standard' logo and the gold goes with the font well.

Have to ask, is the font of your (artists') own design ?

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
Back to top
Profile PM
HZence
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Mar 2003
Location:
Posted: 5th Jan 2004 06:06
Link
New one kicks the old one's arse RPG.

Stick a TM or R on the end and it'll like quite professional, I might add.


Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
Back to top
Profile PM
Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 5th Jan 2004 06:35
Link
IMHO it's the way of proving you have no concept of professionalism and no chance at success, pretending it's copyrighted when it's not ... keep it like it is...

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
Back to top
Profile PM
HZence
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Mar 2003
Location:
Posted: 5th Jan 2004 06:38
Link
I totally agree, that's why I said adding it would make it look professional.

Must a war be started over everything I say?


Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
Back to top
Profile PM
Dave J
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Feb 2003
Location: Secret Military Pub, Down Under
Posted: 5th Jan 2004 08:44
Link
I beg to differ, you actually said it would like professional. lol.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Eric T
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Apr 2003
Location: My location is where I am at this time.
Posted: 5th Jan 2004 11:03
Link
As for the new logo, i like alot better, it looks alot more "Sophistacated".


Quote: "Hahaa Eric... you only go once a Sunday? damn your weeks must be agony "


LOL... you know what i meant when i said that..lol

Maybe I should change it to, "what I make every morning", lol

If i ain't here, i'm probably playing DOA2 Hardcore on the PS2
Former name : Liquidz_Snake
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Andy Igoe
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 5th Jan 2004 12:36
Link
The team requests forum is inhabited by a number of new comers starting teams and a few veterans trolling for a fight.

If you really want to get new members release a demo showing what your engine can do.


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Benjamin
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2002
Location: France
Posted: 5th Jan 2004 13:22 Edited at: 5th Jan 2004 13:23
Link
RPGamer, all you have to do is delete the little offenders posts . Problem solved

Please keep posting about ED here

Benjamin R Wharton
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Mattman
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Jun 2003
Location: East Lansing
Posted: 5th Jan 2004 14:34
Link
Problem is, so many modellers out here (which aren't a whole lot, I'd say 50% of the community) don't want to join a team.

I am mischeivious
RoooooOoooooKoooooKoooooRoooooOoooooKoooooKooooo!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 5th Jan 2004 15:51
Link
Truth is it's easier to make some things that you know you're good at, understanding your own limits, than making things you're told to, within specified time limitations. But that's the responsibility of a team.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
Back to top
Profile PM
HZence
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Mar 2003
Location:
Posted: 5th Jan 2004 16:11
Link
Quote: "you actually said it would like professional"


God, why do I ALWAYS do that? I always type the wrong word, and I never proofread. Must be the insomnia...


Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
Back to top
Profile PM
Megaton Cat
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 5th Jan 2004 18:05
Link
Hey rpgamer! That logo looks slick!
I doubt you need me much anymore...


DB generation: http://www.excaver.com/dbg
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the Matrix Reformated
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Mattman
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Jun 2003
Location: East Lansing
Posted: 5th Jan 2004 23:28
Link
well, maybe if you do 2D stuff, he can focus on the programming side of it

I am mischeivious
RoooooOoooooKoooooKoooooRoooooOoooooKoooooKooooo!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
John H
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Oct 2002
Location: Burlington, VT
Posted: 6th Jan 2004 02:19
Link
Well, I am chatting with a guy from gamedev.net, who looks promising I just got an IM from the forum member Penfold telling me about a friend of his who might like to do modelling for the ED project

Looking a bit brighter about now

Still need textures artists tho! Megaton

RPGamer


We need help! Email us! join@eternaldestinyonline.com
Back to top
Profile PM
John H
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Oct 2002
Location: Burlington, VT
Posted: 6th Jan 2004 04:15
Link
You like the glow effect dont you


We need help! Email us! join@eternaldestinyonline.com
Back to top
Profile PM
HZence
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Mar 2003
Location:
Posted: 6th Jan 2004 13:19
Link
If I had a copy of Photoshop that was actually mine, I would help you RPGamer.


Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
Back to top
Profile PM
Megaton Cat
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 6th Jan 2004 19:49
Link
Sorry I can't do textures...I'm more on the lines of Transworld punk (just a bit) where I can create 2d/3d logos, effects, menus, buttons, and 2d editing.


DB generation: http://www.excaver.com/dbg
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the Matrix Reformated
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Megaton Cat
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 6th Jan 2004 23:05
Link
I think the glow effect is a bit too wide...I dunno, I just like a different taste of glow effects.


DB generation: http://www.excaver.com/dbg
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the Matrix Reformated
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Chris K
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Oct 2003
Location: Lake Hylia
Posted: 6th Jan 2004 23:34
Link
Dieing roses I'd say

Back to top
Profile PM
Arkheii
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Jun 2003
Location: QC, Philippines
Posted: 7th Jan 2004 14:52
Link
Transworld Punk 69, that green sig seems to use a similar technique with megaton's red/orange one. I've seen a water droplets effect tutorial before, I guess that's similar to the technique you (the two of you) used?

What isn't remembered, never happened.
Memory is merely a record... You just need to rewrite that record.
Back to top
Profile PM
Van B
Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 7th Jan 2004 15:35
Link
I like that logo, maybe I'd reconsider the colouring because it would be a little bland because of the shading. Perhaps a darker border around it would bring it up a bit more and make it stand out. Looks good though, not too obvious like 99% of the RPG title fonts out there.

Frankly, if you can draw text like that then there's no reason why you can't make your own textures. Even taking a photograph of the ground and making it seamless is easy - far easier than drawing anything from scratch anyway. You'll find that a good library of world textures will look after a lot of your model textures too - maybe even use a texture baking app to generate logical shading, then touch up the details.

I hope you do get some people to help, but I'm a little sour on the whole team idea nowadays, I reckon you'd be happier if you sharpened your skills until you could produce your own media that you'd want to use. Artists seldom understand what is really involved in game production, so you need someone who wants nothing more than to make stuff for this game. People who offer models that they've done or can do for you are pretty easy to find, and can help a great deal - but I strongly suggest that you ask them to make a really basic texture map, or leave it untextured. Having media from several artists, each with a different style is not a good idea, it'd make your game look disjointed, so having 1 2D artist who handles all of, or at least edits all of the textures to keep them in check is sensible.

Do you have concept art done for your key characters? - if not I suggest getting all of that put together, then you can pass this stuff onto a prespective artist who can then let you see what they can do with them. Also you might find an artist who likes your ideas just by posting some concept art.


Good luck with ED, and just stay away from team requests - they're obviously not doing your project any good.


Van-B


Next time he runs past, GRAB HIM!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Megaton Cat
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 7th Jan 2004 18:24 Edited at: 7th Jan 2004 18:24
Link
Quote: "Transworld Punk 69, that green sig seems to use a similar technique with megaton's red/orange one. I've seen a water droplets effect tutorial before, I guess that's similar to the technique you (the two of you) used?
"


No. I made it on my own, had nothing to do with TP69 (Who steals my stuff >_< )

Anyway, sorry for going off-topic...I'll be quiet now.


DB generation: http://www.excaver.com/dbg
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the Matrix Reformated
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Penfold
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Dec 2003
Location: RED postbox houses of parliment
Posted: 8th Jan 2004 00:31
Link
Yup just talked to my mate MATT yesterday on the dog and bone he said that once he's finished his current Neverwinter model he's working on....

PLEASE feel free to check out the hak packs he's done for Neverwinter nights in the neverwinter vaults (do a search for MAGMA and you'll find SOMEof his models).

...he'd be happy to look into doing a few if not many models for ED. At the time of speaking to him he still hadn't recieved an email from you (RPGamer) but would keep checking.

As I said before I would also be quite happy to BETA test anything you send him too.

Ok so its not a mouse.
Back to top
Profile PM
Arkheii
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Jun 2003
Location: QC, Philippines
Posted: 8th Jan 2004 12:16
Link
You know, you don't really have to go all the way to RGT just to get decent replies. Maybe you could try the people at the turbosquid forum. Most of them there are just modelling+texturing as a hobby, so I think some of them will be willing to offer free help. Besides, if this game happens to turn out well, it will look good on their portfolio so it's hard for them to pass it off.

Of course, Photoshop owners are harder to persuade because they had to spend so much cash on it. Kidding, hehe.

Back to top
Profile PM
Dr OcCuLt
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2002
Location: a Dark Deep Dark pit, it dark in here
Posted: 8th Jan 2004 14:41
Link
no turbosquid to must about money(£$) it full of People than think that you sound pay then 50$ for some than thay made in 10 mintes and do not look that good any or 80$ for some thing thay got from dark matter.

that not ever one there just some of them. milk shape forum may be better.

--Dr 0--

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Dr OcCuLt
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Nov 2002
Location: a Dark Deep Dark pit, it dark in here
Posted: 8th Jan 2004 17:49
Link
i`v just find this and think it may be ues full for this topic http://www.gamebeavers.org/

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-11-24 14:06:48
Your offset time is: 2024-11-24 14:06:48