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Geek Culture / Bush plan for MARS AHHHHHHHHHH!

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UnderLord
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 05:45
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He wants to send people to mars the cost 12 billion dollars (total).

I think its his plan to get people to reelect him but i think it will fail! then he will die! ahahahahahahahaha...

sorry got carried away.

So anyhow you think this "plan" of his will float or sink?
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HZence
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 05:46
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Knowing people and their ignorance I'd say that both his plan for mars and his plan for being re-elected will succeed...

dun dun dun


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Ian T
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 06:24
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Knowing that not everyone is the USA is as blind to both history and modern events as certain people, I think he'll succeed with the election and the moon base... but the Democrats will probaly scrap the Mars plan for some anti global warming effort in their usual style

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

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Puffy
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 06:49
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Uh... yeh right bush... he doesn't know whats involved... o_O Maybe with a couple decades of research in the technology needed... O_O It could have been done by now of course... in the 1960's but lord knows they had to stop working on ion engines completely... now were stuck with fossil fuels and bush plans on blasting so much of it into space... on a mission that would probably fail... you know... whole conversion issue with the first robot... -_- what hes putting on the line is the only thing the USA is good at anymore... embarass NASA... oh yes good job...


EVERYONE LOVES THE PUFF!... =)

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UnderLord
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 10:10
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Poor american's all of us we are doomed to be under a ruler that is so dumb he dosnt know his left from his right and his ass crack from a girls....well you know...
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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 10:31
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We need to move off earth. Too busy

Whats so good about living anywho?
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Jeku
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 10:35
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Why's that so stupid that he's sending people to Mars? That's the next logical place to go.

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DivW
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 11:56
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The technology is definately there. I've read articles (i know i sound like such a geek, but bear with me...) on particle accelerators, and a special one was developed to smash particles of anti-matter into particles of matter, which lets out huge amounts of energy. This was developed specificaly to slash travel times to Mars, so we're probably going to see that technology implimented soon in the possible "Mars Race". The other alternative is Nuclear Fission. At this time Fusion is too uncontrollable, although i understand an American team are working on a Fusion reactor (It's quite big and painted Red). Nuclear Fission smashes large heavy and unstable particles together, and forces them to split into smaller particles. When this happens, energy is released. The energy is equal to the missing mass times the speed of light squared. So for an atomic mass unit of 3, the 'weight' of 3 neutrons or protons, the energy released is 300000000*300000000*3 = 270000000000000000 Joules of Energy. That's enough to get 2 spaceships to Mars and back. No-one can say that this sort of reactor is not feasible, as it's allready been implimented into submarines. The other alternative...don't want to start a cover up post or anything like that, but the last alternative is the N-drive. I can't seem to find much on the Net about it, but it's a drive that uses an array of magnets (much more complicated than the simple rotational magnetic device investigated by scientests years ago) to generate energy without appearing to need any back. I don't like to dabble with the words "Perpetual Motion" but that may be the case. It wouldn't be fair to dismiss it as a fantasy device either, because Nuclear Reactors always recreate 'Nuclear Fuel' after the reaction...so the technology is within reach. And we wouldn't need half the fuel if we built the craft on a rig in orbit around the planet, which, with the completion of the International Space station coming soon, might be a possibility.

-Dave

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 12:00
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Would be nice to go to Mars, although the Americans have a lot of internal problems that should also be solved as well...


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IanM
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 14:19
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What about the martian terrorists though ... http://www.thebrainstrust.co.uk/article.72.3003.html

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 14:27
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You need a really fast Broadband connection if you live on mars!

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MushroomHead
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 14:30 Edited at: 16th Jan 2004 14:33
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http://www.theonion.com/onion3524/aliens_portrayl_media.html

"I'd love to see the mightiest Earthling try to navigate the sodium jungles of Skorg-7," K'qqq'tthhb added. "You humans wouldn't even exist if not for the fact that your planet is protected under the Cassiopeian Accord as a wildlife preserve."

Haaahahahaha.
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Dave J
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 14:55
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rofl, I love The Onion. It's pure classic.


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actarus
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 15:02
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The Americans are planning on putting George Bush in a shuttle and launch him on a one way ticket to Mars,gladly he'll still be able to eat pretzels as in his case,it may save oxygen

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Rob K
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 16:12
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As good as a manned mission to Mars would be for American patriots, virtually no-one would deny that there are far better ways of spending $540 billion (figure in UK paper).


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actarus
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 16:34
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It's all about the money then?

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But he can't look me in the eye,
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ZomBfied
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 18:47 Edited at: 16th Jan 2004 18:48
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It's always all about the money. Money = human work/time/food/resources/life.

I believe his current and very sudden space program kick is about 2 things:

1. It's an election year. Bush doesn't want to be known for only tax cuts and terror.

2. His proposed Strategic Defense didn't fly well, so the govt contracts for a military space program didn't pan out, so it's logically time to aggressively persue a civil space program.

...but these are just theories.

I fully support a one-way trip to Mars if Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld are the astronauts.
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Jeku
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 19:53
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Yeah, a one-way trip with the Clintons and Gore would be great, too. And Senator Lieberman can hop aboard for the ride

Damn, if I was president of the US (or prime minister of China), the first thing I would have done is started building apartments on the moon.

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Ian T
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 20:07
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'Yeah, a one-way trip with the Clintons and Gore would be great, too. And Senator Lieberman can hop aboard for the ride'

The Clintons and Gore can all go to hell (or Mars), but Lieberman's a good person-- as are Bush and Cheney.

'As good as a manned mission to Mars would be for American patriots, virtually no-one would deny that there are far better ways of spending $540 billion (figure in UK paper).'

If you're only thinking of the moment, yes, but the Moon-Mars plan is also the next logical step in conolization and scientific discovery... and it could give the US a great tactical advantage. Before people start whining about how Bush is a power-mad imperialist, this is something any and every country on the globe would jump for if they had the funds and technoloy. Bush is just going at this a bit early.

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ZomBfied
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 21:11
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They're really good people. Misleading us into a war was great. I love record unemployment and deficites while some Texas based companies get uber rich.

It was much worse under Clinton when we had that God-aweful period peace and prosperity. Plus I'll be glad to get rid of our stupid 5th amendment rights because of the Patriot act. Who needs em?
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Chris K
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 21:45
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I think space travel should be stopped until there is a cure for cancer.

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empty
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 21:47 Edited at: 16th Jan 2004 21:48
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Quote: "but the Democrats will probaly scrap the Mars plan for some anti global warming effort in their usual style"

How silly of them. We will need all the money to repair the damage caused by the increasing number of natural disasters, anyway.

Quote: "and it could give the US a great tactical advantage."

Over whom or what?

Quote: "Before people start whining about how Bush is a power-mad imperialist, this is something any and every country on the globe would jump for if they had the funds and technoloy."

Nor has the US (esp. the funds) or why do you think Bush invited other nations to follow him?

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the_winch
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 21:52
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Quote: " I think space travel should be stopped until there is a cure for cancer."


Or aids.
$540 billion could be used to improve the lives of a lot of people.

's/ /_/g'
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Chris K
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 21:58
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Not to mention the cost of 'really clever people' who could be working in medicine.

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ZomBfied
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 23:35
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I'm all for a healthy space program. The money is spent here on Earth and it promotes the furthering of our general knoledge which usually helps in ways we can't predict.
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haggisman
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 23:41
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Dont forget most of the 'really clever people' who would work on these missions would most likely not work on cures for aids/cancer/whatever if they didnt go ahead. They probably would be working in something more in their own field like designing more robotic landers.

Anyway the russians said they were going to be going to Mars in 10 years, maybe we will have a new space race on our hands.

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Chris K
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Posted: 17th Jan 2004 00:13
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Quick!!! Go go go!!! You absolutely cannot lose this race!!!!

No one cares. It'll be just like The Moon - everyone thought it was the greatest thing ever and no one's been back there in 30 years.

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haggisman
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I for one am pretty excited at the prospect, its not like i got to be around at the first moon landing. Not only are the considering going to the moon and making a base but going to another planet as well! If that doesnt excite you i dont know what would.

Lets not forget the fact this may finally allow the fantasy of the tv series 'Space 1999' come true, even if it is a little late.

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Dazzag
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Posted: 17th Jan 2004 01:56
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Am sure it said the total cost for all of the above was 1 trillion dollars. ie. 1000 billion. Nice. For starters seems a lot of money to go to a dead planet, but hell, US defence budget is massive too.

Personally can't see the point in the Mars project. The moon base on the other hand could be useful. Can't quite understand the tactical advantage of Mars though. Moon yes. Mars? Explain?

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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Ian T
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Posted: 17th Jan 2004 02:28
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Tactical advantage from Mars? Hardly ... I meant the moon base concept.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

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Dazzag
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Ah, sorry, was speed reading while half asleep.

But hey, if lots of little green men on Mars, then will be tactical advantage to take over them before they do the same to us! Erm...

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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UnderLord
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Posted: 17th Jan 2004 03:09
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Lets see why send people to mars?

It is the next place to go.
Technology might be there but doughtful.

We can do it if we use the water on mars. But how about food? how about prostitutes? where will they come from? you don't want one of those astronauts to jack off in a toilet only to have his stuff jettisoned out into outerspace what if it finds some wacky alien life to breed with THINK OF THE HUMANITY!
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Ian T
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Posted: 17th Jan 2004 03:35
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'We can do it if we use the water on mars'

What water.

'But how about food?'

Do you really think any kind of space mission would even reach late planning stages without food being taken into account? Either sufficient food for the expected stay would be included, or some sort of solar/force powered device that creates it... hey, this is decades in the future

'how about prostitutes?'



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Represent
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Posted: 17th Jan 2004 03:39 Edited at: 17th Jan 2004 03:46
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Bush wants to send people to Mars becuase Mars has icecaps and icecaps are water. SO they will try to recreate the Greenhouse effect there and then it will be just like earth. It is a great idea and highly possible.

If it works that is great. We can settle there with new colonies, countries, ect. It is so cool. Maybe we might find new species of animals or more forms of atoms to add to the periodic tabel. If os then that maybe a great leap in science and medicine.

I cannot wait till he starts the project. I hope it is succesful becuase then I am definitly moving to mars or the moon.
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empty
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Posted: 17th Jan 2004 03:55
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Quote: "Bush wants to send people to Mars becuase Mars has icecaps and icecaps are water. SO they will try to recreate the Greenhouse effect there and then it will be just like earth. It is a great idea and highly possible."

Except that Mars' gravity might be too weak to keep that newly gained atmosphere.

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build a little fire this midnight. It's good to be back home with you.
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Represent
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Posted: 17th Jan 2004 04:02
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True. But if the atmosphere come (if mars is strong enough) the reverse momentum action will occur. (I am watching a NOVA show about Mars and its possiblities right now). reverse momentum action is what killed mars. What happens is the way the earth is roatign flips and it slowly makes the planet slow down. If we give it an atmosphere we may be able to make that reverse momentum action happen again (it happens every 1,000,000 years & happned already on earth) and that will kepp making the gravity stronger (or weaker).
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Ian T
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Posted: 17th Jan 2004 04:29
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'Bush wants to send people to Mars becuase Mars has icecaps and icecaps are water.'

There is absolutely no proof of these icecaps. Water is what the Spirit and Opportunity have been sent to find-- or at least, traces of it. It's far more likely there is no water or ice on Mars-- and there hasn't been for millenia.

'SO they will try to recreate the Greenhouse effect there and then it will be just like earth. It is a great idea and highly possible.'

Slow down...

-That's a theory
-The greenhouse effect is also nothing but a theory with very little evidence
-The greenhouse effect, even if it follows the theory, is very slow
-Switch 'highly possble' to 'slightly possible' and you'll have it right.

'reverse momentum action is what killed mars'

That's just a theory, one of the many tens of them that people have about Mars. Scientists like acting like they're sure about these things, but they're not, and they're constantly being proved wrong...

'If we give it an atmosphere we may be able to make that reverse momentum action happen again'

Planetary terraforming is technology we don't have, and probaly won't in the next several decades.

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the_winch
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Posted: 17th Jan 2004 04:48
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Quote: "-That's a theory
-The greenhouse effect is also nothing but a theory with very little evidence
"


I think you are confusing global warming with greenhouse effect. While globale warming may or may not be a problem the greenhouse effect is pretty easy to show.
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Ian T
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Posted: 17th Jan 2004 05:07
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Got it

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UnderLord
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OMG mouse have you looked at pictures of mars? what are those big fat white things up north on mars?! clouds? i think not! its ice duh!

=)
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Ian T
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Posted: 17th Jan 2004 05:26
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Hmmmm... funny, I've never heard of that before. Point taken.

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UnderLord
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Posted: 17th Jan 2004 06:28
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Yes maybe you confused mars with the moon. they are looking for water on the moon but we already know water is on mars =)
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Blazer
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I think its funny: we found water on mars... maby there's life........what about air?

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Ian T
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'maby there's life........what about air? '

What makes you think life needs 'air'? Mars has 'air', but I'm assuming you're talking about Earth's much thicker, particular collection of gassess. There are hundreds of thousands of species on Earth that have no need of a gasseous atmosphere-- there could be life that lives on or under the ice.

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Damokles
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Scientists know how to terraform a planet. It's not that difficult. The only problem is that this takes too much time ... over a life-time.
And I wonder how they would build this moon base ... No atmosphere on the moon, so all the meteorites won't burn in any atmosphere and if there is an impact, thatz base could be destroyed.
So they have two possibilities : Making it underground or having a really good protecting system.

"Begin at the beginning, and go on till you come to the end: then stop." - Lewis Carroll
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Arkheii
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Don't worry. I told my friend over at mars to warn their government to hide all traces of oil on their planet.

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haggisman
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Quote: "OMG mouse have you looked at pictures of mars? what are those big fat white things up north on mars?! clouds? i think not! its ice duh!

=)"


Actually Mars does have clouds http://www.nature.com/nsu/010719/010719-6.html

Just not as much as we do.

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flibX0r
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Posted: 17th Jan 2004 15:25 Edited at: 17th Jan 2004 15:27
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Oh no!!! Bush will find Uncle Marty from "My favourite martian" and their society and declare war against them.

I do think that the united states government should fix all the problems on THIS planet before movig onto the next one.

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Philip
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I support a manned mission to Mars. As for all the pessimists, naysayers, doubters and vision-less people, they are entitled to their view but we should ignore them - if that kind of defeatist attitude prevailed our ancesters would not have stopped living in caves.

Philip

PS: On an ironic note, I actually still live in a cave.

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UnderLord
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Posted: 17th Jan 2004 17:50
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Thats because your a bear Philip.


But anyhow i think moving to mars is a good idea. But they would need vast amounts of food and oxygen and water just to survive and we still don't know enough to have a successful mission for all we know they could be distroyed by meteors befor they even reach the planet.

Good thing -
OOO big fat step to colonising other planets.

bad things -
EXTREME RADIATION!
once they are out of reach they won't beable to get anything to them for one whole year.
IE if they run out of food or water they will most likly die.
meteor strikes alot can happen in a year.

I just think the bad outweights the good. and until that changes we should only dream up ways to get there.

Or until we have the technology to reach mars anytime we please

For those of you who don't already know.

Mars is only within earth reach for like 2-3 weeks a year once those astronauts go up there and make it there they won't be within earths reach for another year. Meteor strikes distroy half of food supply they better hope to god some food rains down on them. same if meteor strikes damage oxygen supply ect.

Do you see what i am saying?

The risk involved is just to great for anyone to go up there to mars...yet...when we have the technology to reach mars year round then we should do this mission.
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