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Geek Culture / New Computer

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rapscaLLion
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Joined: 29th Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posted: 25th Nov 2002 04:10
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Ok, heres the deal. I'm gonna get a new comp sometime in the next six months, I hope. I'm going to build it myself, and yes I know how, so I will purchase all the parts seperatly.

I want your input and suggestions on how to make the best possible gaming / graphics system.

Heres what I'm gonna do on it:
Games: IE- UT2003 and Doom 3 (and darkbasic of course )
Graphics: Video editing... Photoshop and Premier... some CG modelling/rendering if I can save up the mony for a decent package.
Desktop Publishing: Just word and powerpoint, so you won't have to worry about that.

Heres what I have already:
1> 40GB Western Digital HD, 7200 rpm.

Thats about it

Heres what I know I will get:
NVidia's GeForce FX, which was just announced a few days ago. (Does anyone know if it will have TV-Out?)
At least another 80GB HD.
DVDRom Drive, possibly a DVDRom burner
A CD burner
a floppy... I find it necessary, so it's non-negotiable
A processor that is at least 2GHz

My prelim budget is around $2500 excluding moniter, what do you think I can squeeze in?

BTW- I need to somehow have video in and out, what method do you suggest?

Ok, GO! Post your suggestions here, and please try to explain why you suggest what you suggest, random suggestions don't help

Thanks
Alex Wanuch
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Puffy
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Location: United States
Posted: 25th Nov 2002 04:49
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ahem... winblows... you choose your version... linux... mac emulator... goto www.tigerdirect.com ... i would suggest the AMD Athlon XP 2600+... a motherboard with at least 3 slots for ddr ram... remember its socket a... 1.5 gigs of ddr 400 mhz ram or up... you could go ibm but the diff is gold or copper... GET A NEW FAN TO GO WITH THE PROCESSOR DONT USE THE ONE THAT COMES WITH IT... OR GET A LIQUID COOLED CASE (i suggest liquid)..for the reviews goto www.overclockers.com... artic silver 3 thermal coolant... DO NOT I REPEAT DO NOT USE THE SILICON GELL THAT COMES WITH IT... HARD TO CLEAN + NASTY... DO NOT LEAVE ANY KIND OF THERMAL PAD ON THE FAN... IT MELTS TO YOUR CPU AND CREATES A MESS... get a nice artic silver 3 tube... hrmmm... either the newest ti or radeon it doesnt matter there both good... as you were saying a burner... a liquid cooled case with freon or some kind of nice coolant... =\ DONT USE THE POWER SOURCE THAT COMES WITH THE CASE IT = CRAP... get the most powerful one you can... A SOUND BLASTER AUDIGY2 PLATINUM EX (2 ownz 2 ownz......)... if you need a new monitor some people complain about lcd being "slower" but i dont see a diff.... its chemicals... cryclis... FANS LOTS OF CASE FANS EVEN IF YOU GET LIQUID... =\ the turbo zeus front bay fan is garanteed to give you a 30 degree C drop thats internal temp not system temp or cpu temp... a zip drive 750 meg is out... a floppy for document backup... and unlike mac's claim it still has a use... A NICE SPEAKER SYSTEM WITH 5.1 SOUND... or 6.1 or 7.1... a joystick... a gamepad... =\ hrmmm i would suggest a plasma screen instead of an lcd screen but they cost around 10,000 bucks up... not doin that... 2500 spending limit... i built my machine for about 750 bucks... USE TIGER DIRECT IT = LOW PRICES FOR MOST THINGS... but for some things it over prices... plus its reliable... HOPE THIS HELPS IF YOU NEED ANY MORE PARTS OR INFO JUST ASK ME...

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/2.5mbs Sat Con... I joined in!
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 04:56
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Meh, LCD screens are slower, but the human eye can't detect it anyway, so who the hell cares?
I fully intend to get my own HeatSink, Fan, etc, and there are gonna be a lot of intake and outtake fans in the case, in addition to the fans on the cards. Which means I probably won't use liquid cooling. I'll look into it though. Anyway, I already have a tube of arctic silver, brand new.
As for power, I'm gonna need a lot of it, and I'm not even going to get a case with a PS in it, I need something heavy duty + reliable. I don't really like Joysticks, or gamepads, keyboard is my fav.

DDR ram is the only way to go IMHO, so I'll get a wholoe crapload of that, how much do you suggest?

Th real question is what kind of CPU and motherboard should I get? I need a good one, but I can't spend too much, I dunno where I'll get 2500 as it is

Alex Wanuch
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Puffy
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 05:00
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some many motherboards and cpus out there... get an amd for when microshit tries to pull the reg fee crap... and as i said an AMD Athlon XP 2600+... =\ if you want you can go multiprocessor but thats expensive... AND FOR PEOPLE WHO WILL SUGGEST RAMBUS (800mhz bus) AHEM ITS GOT A PEAK FLOW OF 1.7GHZ .. DDR IS 2.7... BASE BUS ON RAM MEANS NOTHING... browse tigerdirect... get a gameplan... then post what you find and ill suggest better stuff but that audigy2 platinum ex IS TIGHT... good sound...

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/2.5mbs Sat Con... I joined in!
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 05:46
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oh ya, I didn't really think it mattered much about the soundcard and speakers... then I heard my friends... omg it was beautiful... just about cried. Or maybe that was because he was playing UT2003 with full base...

Alex Wanuch
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Puffy
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 05:48
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hehehe... get a 5.1 or better and a soundblaster audigy2 platinum ex (ex means external...)

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/2.5mbs Sat Con... I joined in!
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 06:57
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if you want raw power... rather than the ancient AlthonXP get yourself a single or dual Optiron processor
PowerNow! is certainly a very worthwhile power update
Along with the $650 GeForce FX can't really go wrong power wise - of course you'll want the nForce2 motherboard as well
with DDR2 Ram at CLK2 we're talkin' serious power hehee

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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Puffy
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 07:02
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he doesnt have that kinda cash... amd athlon xp isnt ancient =P... new ones keep being released... im prob gonna update to a dual processor amd athlon mp computer soon =D that will be fast... maybe ill look into that optiron... well see...

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/2.5mbs Sat Con... I joined in!
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Mirthin
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 21:54
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TFT flatpanel monitors will display colour correctly - CRT doesn't.

Who wants cake? I've got a little slice of hell for everyone.
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Puffy
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Posted: 26th Nov 2002 06:54
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... crt's are old... if you want a flatpanel... GET A PLASMA SCREEN... well worth the cash... O_O 3 inches thick... 60" on the diagonale... whats not to love...

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/2.5mbs Sat Con... I joined in!
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 26th Nov 2002 15:01
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ok, let's get over the screen now
Besides... plasmas burn out don't they?

Alex Wanuch
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actarus
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Posted: 26th Nov 2002 15:06
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I'd rather pay for a good monitor like NEC has and get a smaller size but a better image/color quality.

I have an old Msync FE700 and friends are still amazed at the color levels compared to my second monitor héhé...Also has to do with knowing how to optimize it at it's best.

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Puffy
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Posted: 26th Nov 2002 17:05
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i actually need a new monitor.. =P i fucked this one up... its kinda burnt out... =\ its 5 years old... i guess i might get a nice lcd... those are slower but to the human eye theres no diff... plus i can do the calculator thing with my finger to em =P....

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/2.5mbs Sat Con... I joined in!
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Mirthin
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Posted: 26th Nov 2002 18:41
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All screens die some day. It's a fact we have to face

Who wants cake? I've got a little slice of hell for everyone.
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Puffy
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Posted: 26th Nov 2002 21:32
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=D im looking into a massive plasma screen... or lcd... yesssss masiv lcd...

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/3072kbs Sat Con... I joined in!
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 26th Nov 2002 22:32
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OK! forget about the screen ppl

Alex Wanuch
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Puffy
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Posted: 26th Nov 2002 22:35
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*stops undressing the screen in his mind and changes to rapscallion*... satisfied ??? O_O

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/3072kbs Sat Con... I joined in!
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 26th Nov 2002 23:16
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?
I refuse to be undressed in this manner!
away with you!

Alex Wanuch
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 26th Nov 2002 23:35
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hahaa
hey Raps should get a nVidia Motherboard, AlthonXP 2.5Ghz and 512Mbyte (2x256Mbyte) DDR Ram CLK2 preferabbly but 1.5 is oki as well. nVidia nForce is a pretty good chipset (what is inside the XBox) with that get yourself a GeForce4 Ti 480 128Mb DDR2 AGP8x, preferably either official nVidia or Creative OR if you need it for graphics development get yourself a nice Quattro XGL 128Mb DDR2 AGP8x
with that you'll want a new ATA133 HDD (of course)
I'd go for an 80Gbyte can pick them up for about $150.
You'll need a nice mouse, so don't skimp and get the MS OptiExplorer ... god i love those mice, 9buttons at your finger/thumb tips

wouldn't go for a huge monitor, but a TFT would be probably the cheaper and better route to go. Should be able to grab a good 18" TFT from CTX for about $600

As for the drives... Get seperate CDRW and DvD Roms (i say Rom because a Ram is still pretty bloody expensive) and should get Philips as they've got very nice and relatively quiet drives. Plus the CDRW's have ALOT of onboard ram, my own 1600CDW has 8Mbyte Cache - is really good to prevent underburning and speed problems. It also has some good Anti-Scratch measures which means CDs last longer.
Now ontop of all that a Combination package of Audiology and Cambridge Works 5.1 SoundCard and speaker set give you outstanding sound (^_^)
No point in Plantinum or anything like that unless you actually want to do some serious music creation.

Oh last but not least, should have a keyboard just right for coding - the MS Natural Internet Pro board, is THE most comfortable board on they market IMHO ... and certainly not for the weak of pocket at $120

Hope this gives you some idea
You could weight up the benifits of an AMD AlthonXP with DDR Ram against a Pentium4 with RDRam - but its still quite apparent that RDRam still has way to many bugs for gameplay however is still faster.
Unless you get DDR2
However I'm still not sure on the benifits of the Pentium4 unless again you're going to be 3D Developing, and even then really only applies to 3DSMax 4/5 - then perhaps P4 is the better choice.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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Puffy
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Posted: 27th Nov 2002 07:27
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dont listen to him and his 512mbs of ram... OMG YOU SAID RDRAM WAS FAST SHAME ON YOU... ITS GOT A PEAK FLOW OF 1.7GHZ... DDR IS 2.7GHZ... damn... AMD IS FASTER THAN PENTIUM... its in the structure... =D soundblaster audigy ownz audiology .... my mb is completely gold wired... oh wait i get what your doing...
raps listen to him if you dont wann get da shiznit computer... =D my comps ownz his specs right there... oh well... raven tsk tsk rdram is more expensive too...

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/3072kbs Sat Con... I joined in!
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Puffy
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Posted: 27th Nov 2002 07:27
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*what i meant by dashiznit is not burn a hole in your pocket*

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/3072kbs Sat Con... I joined in!
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 28th Nov 2002 15:09
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lol ok

Alex Wanuch
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Dean
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Posted: 30th Nov 2002 01:41
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I'll just go over to the local university and steal a super computer or two

* my computer sucks


''Mmmm.. Tastes like Nazca!''
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Megaman X
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Posted: 30th Nov 2002 01:50
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I know AMD is much faster then the Intel ones... However I've lost 2 AMD's and it's mother boards in less then 2 years ( one AMD 600 and one 800 ). As they were under warranty time, I got a third one ( AMD 800, which I'm selling and has less then 3 months of use ). I don't know if they have changed the AMD tec, but it can get warm as hell and if the cooler/fan mess up say good bye to the mother board and processor. A recent test on the Internet showed what may happens if the fan is removed during the computer running ( it was even Quake 3 as exemple ). All processors and mother boards get toasted, only Intel survived, but the application got a little slower... the guy then just replaced the fan and everything works fine again...

I have a 2 GHZ Intel and I have no complains about it at all. Maybe I should need more memory, but I really am happy with the computer and I know it will last for years.

P.S: I dunno if AMD has improved or not, this is just my case and what happened with me, so please don't flame me I still have a Pentim Intel 166 Compaq and a Intel Pentium 2 - 400 MHZ which are really old and I use them constantly. my 400 is actually my server which I hardly tunr off to download movies and stuff... All running. So think about that

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-- Rogue
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Puffy
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Posted: 30th Nov 2002 11:03
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I don't know if they have changed the AMD tec, but it can get warm as hell and if the cooler/fan mess up say good bye to the mother board and processor.

rogue... once any cooler fan messes up now adays... trust me even your p4... say goodbye to your comp... O_O all it would be good for is opening up... and frying an egg on... or smoress... oh yeh smores....

oh that intel they tested was a lie... O_O pentium 3s can do that at 500 mhz... =\ but they get hot as hell... and celerons can do that... but any processor above 1ghz is dead meat without proper cooling... or a proper powersource... =\ i risked killing my cpu just because i promised the fan and silicon gel that came with the processer... same with the powersource... it came with the case... =*( i almost lost her (my computer)... but tis all ok now... and overclocked =P,,,, over clocked....

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/3072kbs Sat Con... I joined in!
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Megaman X
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Posted: 30th Nov 2002 15:51
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hmmmmm, if that test was true.... then I will need to buy a new cooler... I'm using the default one

U know, tecnology seems to be getting more and more stupid. A cooler costs 15$. A Processor P4 costs over 300$. They could do something that does not need a fan thing, man it's too much risk and too much money. I never was worried with my intel 400... it probaly will last longer then me

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-- Rogue
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2002 21:54
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Hey dude Gamespy.com is running a really cool series on how to produce the "ultimate gaming pc" for around $2500, its a pretty thorough and interesting read, even covering the differences between cases, coolers, power supplies, weighing up the difference between processors etc. However it is dealing with currently available hardware and as such doesn't include a GForceFX

I know a lot of ppl don't like GameSpy but I get their emails and often find at least something interesting... Slight reviews bias towards Xbox & PC, but they're quite fair with scores.

* If the apocalypse comes, email me *
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2002 22:34
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thanks
I hate gamespy, but use it anyways.

oh, and btw: I should tell you that $2500 is Canadian money, so that decreases the value

Alex Wanuch
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th Dec 2002 03:16
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$2,500 candian... aww geez...
have better luck using Yen (j|k)

not a big fan of gamespy but been using it since '95 so can't really complain - hehee
still use Fileplanet almost daily

As for processors - can tell you for a fact AMDs run cooler, because they actually run slower than Intel chips ... they're just able to squeeze out more speed with a better setup.
you can technically run processors of 300Mhz without a fan and a conventional Heatsink for about 10mins, and after about 2 you'll be just melting the connections left right and center. For Pentium4 and AlthonMP well after 2mins without a fan your system is good for jack all!

There are passive heatsinks you can buy which do just as well as regular Fan&Heatsinks ... but you still need the case to be well ventalated.

Cables that clutter it up - too many Cards - and really you need a fan that can keep up because the internal of your case will get very hot very quick.
Most of the guys here just leave one of the sides off, which isn't recommended due to dust and when you have drinks blah blah ... but it'd be impossible to afford Refridgeration cases for all the computers here.

Kinda simple fact thou that in a few years time, the increase in processor speed will be too much and soon they're gonna have to find a way for the same amount of speed to be generated which less and less heat.

I for one don't want to have a Liquid Hydrogen desktop just to play games ... you accidentally drop that sucker you'll be dead before you know it!

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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