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Work in Progress / Thrust - Developed by APEXnow

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APEXnow
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Posted: 29th Jan 2004 04:37
Not just a game, but a new gaming system!

See my site for more details.

Comments, suggestions, queries, please feel free to post

Paul.


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Posted: 29th Jan 2004 07:56
Sounds interesting.

Rpg_Freak.
walaber
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Posted: 29th Jan 2004 10:00
just had a look at your site...

I'm curious how you are getting your engine to use those script files... although they are obviously in DBPro syntax... how are you compiling them at runtime? I can't think of any way to do that!

I'll actually give the demo a try when I get home, right now I'm at work and I can't

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!
Van B
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Posted: 29th Jan 2004 12:18
Looking pretty cool - nice to see someone make their games modable for a change!.

Walaber,
I'm guessing that the scripts are loaded then parsed in realtime, so although the script looks like basic code, it's actually being interpreted. Basically, instead of coding the behaviour of a bullet or enemy, the script will look after that part - but without needing to change the main source code. Advanced script systems are used to control the entire game logic, that's why Half-Life is so big in the mod community, it's got a lot of possibilities with the scripting engine. It makes sense to have a script do gameplay specific tasks, like inside a level editor, you could have a door - and it might need another action to happen before it opens the door. It's much neater to be able to tell the program through a script what conditions it needs, as well as other factors that decide how it operates - really you want to design your game inside the level designer, not with DB code.

Apex,
I find it beneficial to use object setup files, like a file that sets the visual properties, scale, and orientation of an object. This could be done with a little script file, but I reckon it's much easier to have a setup program to create the files easily, then hijack the object loading code so that it's done through a function that checks for object setup files and processes the object to suit. You can even use it to recycle your objects because a model could have several setups - I used that quite a lot in Jetpac2003, there's only a few models making up about a dozen different enemies - all I really did was rotate them and use different textures, if you have JP2003, take a look in the enemies directory. Perhaps it would be a good idea to spend a bit of time on an object setup system, get a good GUI in there because it's the type of thing other people would have to use - nobody likes to guess object scaling and orientation with code. Just an idea.


Van-B


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Posted: 29th Jan 2004 12:49
Bit of a pain controlling the thing, but as it progresses it should be sorted.


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APEXnow
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Posted: 29th Jan 2004 13:13
Yeah . It's early days yet but the core stuff is in there. In terms of performance etc, how does it stand?

Paul.


APEXnow
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Posted: 29th Jan 2004 13:21
walaber,

The principle behind the scripting system is that they are still interpreted but in a form of bytecode similar to Java. Each script is compiled into a unique and optimized byte code which also takes into consideration allocation of variables, function declarations etc. Optimized as much as I can achieve through the DarkBASIC language itself. It's actually supprising how fast DarkBASIC works when dealing with this sort of thing. My intial tests to see whether it could actually be done in the language were extremely positive, hence the test version available now.

As I progress on the system, more documentation, scripting sytax, commands and limitations will be available for the curious.


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Posted: 29th Jan 2004 14:24
It was nice and smooth, even on a GeForce4 MX...

Will you be letting us peeps see the scripting system code ?


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APEXnow
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Posted: 29th Jan 2004 15:02 Edited at: 29th Jan 2004 15:03
I will do eventually, but this is hopefully going to be a goldmine for me LOL.

Nah, seriously though, I will eventually publish code, once the game is actually finished. Would like to try to make some revenue on this one as well.

Paul.


APEXnow
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Posted: 29th Jan 2004 16:05
This is one of the problems I face! Textures and level design.

I am or have never been very good at comming up with a good concept for level design. I would appreciate any ideas or feedback on what people would enjoy seeing when it comes to level design and enemy tactics and design.

I'm a coder, not a designer, so help on this issue is pretty much needed. My main goals so far are to optimize the scripting system and also sort out the collision problems. Collision is really down to the fact that I still haven't found what happens with DB when two or more objects are colliding simultaniously. This being as it is, certain problems can occur with the missiles and ship+map collision events if you are firing your weapon and hit a wall at the same time.

Anyway, feedback or suggestions are a god send

Paul.


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Posted: 29th Jan 2004 20:57
Its a problem I have too (or will have soonish) - I generally use Mappy for the tile information - goodness knows what I'm going to do when I want to do hills & things...


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Rob K
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Posted: 29th Jan 2004 21:20
Its an interesting idea, I had a fair few collision issues with the game - but I'm sure they will be smoothed out in time.

I think you should add more script verification. Currently nothing happens to warn you if you modify the script and get the syntax wrong (some very weird things happen). Rather than a runtime error followed by a complete abort of the program (as happens in DB normally), it would be better if details of the problem could be written to a log file, only aborting or going into an empty loop if the problem is too serious to continue.

Can you also enable quiting of the game using the Escape key please.


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APEXnow
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Posted: 29th Jan 2004 22:32 Edited at: 29th Jan 2004 22:33
Rob, With the syntax checking, I've still got a few things that need sorting here, and because of the process of optimising etc, there will be a few bugs in this area. The escape key issue can actually be dealt with now, all is needed is to change the keycode in the thrust.tsf - Event_KeyPress function, although yes I will change this

Paul.


APEXnow
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2004 00:22
I have updated the Thrust Engine, Test v1.1

Available at http://www.apexnow.co.uk/thrust/thrust_test_v1-1.zip



Basic improvements are that the scripting processor has been optimized as much as I can so far until I begin adding new functionality for dealing with map geometry manipulation and multiple entity limb management. The idea is that all map and entity objects will be fully customisable in dealing with limb movement, texture and appearance management like adding cubemapping, multiple texture layers for map geometry and so fourth.

My main reason for posting is that I now require some performance benchmarking statistics. If you can download and test the system, giving your general machine speed, GFX spec and the average frame rate obtained from running the system.

Also note that the level geometry collision system has been temporariliy disabled because I intend to completely rewrite this section, for performance reasons.

Basic control:

Mouse movement controls the ship's orientation.
Left mouse button thrust's the ship in it's upper facing direction
Middle button will halt the ship in mid air, incase you loose control of the ship.
Right button fires primary and secondary weapons.

Destroy a few cannons to see how the speed is maintained.

Your feedback is much appreciated and important.

Paul.


APEXnow
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2004 03:27
Ok, this really only applies to people who have decent enough hardware to handle it, but if you edit the .\entities\ship.tef
file and add the following line to the bottom of the file:

shadow=1

This will apply shadow shading to the player's ship. Essentially casting a shadow onto the ground below. Helps with depth perception.

As I said though, this is a hungry beast to enable.

Paul.


MikeS
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2004 03:41 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2004 03:41
Some thoughts:

-I really like the particle effects from the fire.
- Ship is too loosely controlled
- Would like to try when collision is available.(Though you mentioned above about this)
-Is the enter(returnkey) suppose to exit you from the game?

System:
1024 Ram 1800mhz 8500radeon

This scripting system seems very interesting. Keep us updated.



[EDIT] average of 70FPS

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APEXnow
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2004 14:01
Thanks Yellow.

By means of loosely controlled, would it be more suitable if the ship's rotation was more liquid in motion? At present, this is controlled directly from the mouse co-ordinates but could be improved to make it more smoother.

The game does exit with the return key and the Escape key, although this can be changed very easily by changing the conditional check in the Thrust.tsf file for the Event_KeyPress function.

Again, thanks for the feedback, 70fps is pretty good considering whats actually going on.


MikeS
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2004 22:15
NP APEXnow

I think the controls could be improved by getting the mouse coords, and then divide by 3, possibly 4. This would definitly give a more realistic effect, and feel liquid"e".



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APEXnow
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2004 22:42
Okeydokey I'll see if I can improve the motion.

Paul.


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Posted: 25th Feb 2004 23:19
hmm, just tried your test v1.1. it seems to run ok till i try fire the weapon or go too far below map. both trying to fire the weapon and going below the map seem to cause fps to drop from 75 to 2 and all the text on screen to disapear.

running winxp 2.2xp althon 512mb ram gf4ti4600
APEXnow
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Posted: 26th Feb 2004 03:05
Hmmm, I'm not really too sure as to the disappearing text but it could may well be something to do with ghosting.

One thing you could try to see if this is the problem..

Load the three files

\entities\pulse.tef
\entities\missile.tef
\entities\explosion.tef

Set both transparent and ghost values to zero.

This will effectively turn off ghosting and alpha blending on these three main objects. It will make them look terrible but it will also test whether this is the problem with your display. Also, are you using the latest nVidia Detonator drivers, v45.23?

Hope that helps, I'll see if anything else comes to mind

Paul.


AramusM
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Posted: 26th Feb 2004 15:03
hmm, havent updated my nvidia drivers in a while cause one of the newer versions i tried caused problems running 2 copies of one of the games i play when i get frustrated programming. Dark Age Of Camelot(1 copy main char, second copy for my buff bot)

Should i use the latest WHQL driver or the latest released one from the nvidia website?
APEXnow
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Posted: 26th Feb 2004 15:14
Well, I think it's a matter of chance. I've used my machine for testing and development, contains a GeForce 4 MX440 64mb video card running on an AMD Duron 1.3Ghz 256mb RAM.

The drivers I use are from nVidia's site, v45.23 and haven't really caused much of a problem except for certain ghosting issues and shadow shading, but the test version that's available, your download, has the shadow shading turned off. nVidia may have even updated these drivers but personally, I haven't checked yet.

Also, and this may contribute to the sudden slowdown, but it is running script files which will account for a drop in performance for machines running less than 1Ghz. But in all fairness, I can't really do much about this unless I rewrite the whole script parser/processor in C and I've already been down that road LOL.

Theres really not much else I can suggest since I've only got the one machine to test stuff on.


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