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Geek Culture / Rember this guy.

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Slayer
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 00:22
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Do you guys remember a guy who posted like 5 months ago.
Well he was telling the truth. just take a look.

http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/phantom.htm

I dont know how to spell
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Chris K
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 00:24
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I still think it's a fake.

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 00:28
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It could be real, but the target buyers are people like us, who program, and there aren't enough of us to keep the thing alive.

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Slayer
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 00:30 Edited at: 9th Feb 2004 00:31
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This means we could make games and sell them. We dont have to
advertise or have to do anything. All we have to do is get
it onto the system and if people wont to buy they buy.

I think its goint to make it. Im going to buy one. even thow
I love my PC more than any othere system.

I dont know how to spell
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Represent
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 00:33
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its real!!! dont you guys read magazines???

it was in almost every mag i have (PC WORLD, EGM, PS2, PC WORLD)
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Jonny_S
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 00:36
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If it was real i would consider buying one.....dunno

Supermonkey - The crime gifhting sex god monkey!
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HZence
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 00:38
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Sounds cool. I bet it'll cost a fortune though.


Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
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Dgamer
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 00:38
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If its real... then Holy sh*t.

The statement below is true
The statement above is false
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Dazzag
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 00:44
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Erm. Isn't that just like a PC then?

Where are the ports BTW?

Also, have you seen the price? Or the monthly fee?

At worst, it's basically a PC someone has shoved into a console like box. Much like the X-Box, but *totally* a PC in a box, much like those new lifestyle PC's (ie. cheaper bits for more money). If this is the case, then is the same as now. Can make DB games for it, and if people want to buy then they will. At best is a new console that can eclipse any other.

Unfortuantly without a *huge* company behind it, then it can be as good as you like, will probably sink. Best one out there has to be the Game park 32 (GP32). Thousands of people own one, but have you heard of it? It's a cool handheld basically. GBA is much slower than it (it has a GBA emulator apparently!), but which one have you got? I haven't got one, and I have 2 GBA's (one is SP).

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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Represent
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 00:45
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Its about $15 a month and the system costs $400
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Slayer
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 00:45 Edited at: 9th Feb 2004 00:50
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I would love for people to buy just so us programers could
make it.

When I go upto people I know that have computers. If I say
What kind of video card do you have and they say something like "I dont remember". So most people dont know about wethere its a PC or the
next PS2. I would wrather have someone buy this new system then
a PC. So we could use the PC and make games for them.

I dont know how to spell
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Dazzag
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 00:56
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Even with a decent broadband connection, downloading the latest game may take a while. Imagine a Final fantasy game, perhaps taking up around 9gb on a DVD (think that is max for one side of a DVD on a PS2). Now that would be a git to download. Unless you live in Korea of course. And even with the largest HD (about 300Gb at the minute?) you wouldn't be having hundreds of games (like nowadays with some people).

And don't go saying most games are nowhere near 9gb. Of course they aren't. They will be soon, and the *current* hardware (let alone the next-gen) can even handle it now! Hell, we always thought X-Wing was a freak of nature at 50mb!

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 01:28
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whats the deal with the link from the first post? I go there and when spybot blocks the tracking cookie that this site places on your machine, the page loads blank except for the navigation bar. Oh and google toolbar is blocking stupid popups as well. Anyone else not seeing the site?

-RUST-
"What the... Mooooooooooo!"
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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 01:30 Edited at: 9th Feb 2004 01:31
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I didn't but i'm about to run spybot and adaware
thanks

Take a look to the sky just before you die

---For Whom The Bell Tolls, Metallica
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The Game
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 01:42 Edited at: 9th Feb 2004 01:58
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I read a recent article and currently they are looking at using 1000's of titles from the past as well as present titles. It will come preloaded with games as well as downloadable games for it. One of the executives from the X-Box was recently recruited by this company to get the ball rolling on this machine. Currently they are making some changes to the machine and if I remember correctly should be unveiled next year.

Edit:
Looks like it maybe out later this year

This machine does have a niche market if they implement it correctly. Personally I don't see it flying off of shelves because of another PC-Console that is in development as well as not everybody can get or afford broadband. The machine is called DISCover and will allow you to play regular PC games out of the box and play them on a console style machine. More info is here http://www.discoverconsole.com/

Because of its broadband capabilities there will be some interest in the market but where I really could see this prosper in would be in the hotel market. The reason I say this is beacuse I do travel extensively on business and alot of hotels offer internet access, movie rental, and video game playing at a certain rate. Currently the major game rental is the N64 games. If Infinium Labs could get its foot in the door with one of the major company's that offer those services for hotels then I think they will do well IMHO.

I am the game and I want to play.
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Arkheii
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 01:43
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Just because it is real does not ensure its success though.

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Dr OcCuLt
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 02:00 Edited at: 9th Feb 2004 02:06
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Quote: "Imagine a Final fantasy game, perhaps taking up around 9gb on a DVD "


there a easy way out that, that is that some of the file will be hosted on a remote saver. like levels,textures,mosters thing like that. that way you need ownle download the games .EXE files and to be loged on to play the game.

that may be able to update the files on the saver thank about that you can play half-life and when your do with all the levels you find some ones added opposins force give you new levels and weapons.

but this is a nice idea all to but i do`t think it will work Infinium Labs but it may work for some one like sony. becos thay will do the same thing just a on a must bigger scale pushing Infinium Labs out.

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The Game
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 02:03
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Here is their answer for it on the website.

Do you like waiting for full CDs to finish downloading?
Using a custom shimming process, games launch immediately after the required files are delivered to the console. Additional content, such as later levels, continues to stream while playing the game. This is true for all games, not just those built exclusively for the Phantom Gaming System.
The Phantom is more convenient, everything game-related is available from one source.
And in the end, the games are cheaper: there is no distribution middleman.

I am the game and I want to play.
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Arkheii
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 02:11 Edited at: 9th Feb 2004 02:12
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http://darkbasic.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=25521&b=2

Amusing.

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UnderLord
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 03:32
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Well the picture of it looks so fake i mean comon...to many shadows on the damn console its self. it just looks like it was rendered in a nice little 3d program....well to me anyways.

I'll laugh so hard if i see this on the news "ANd the Phantom console which was set to go out onto store shelfs end's up being a big fat prank"

The search continues.
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Night Giant
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 07:15 Edited at: 9th Feb 2004 07:15
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heh, well, infinium labs is traded on the OTC BB market (it's down .15), lol. http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=IFLB.OB&d=t, maybe i should short sell, heh.

oh, wow. insignificantpunks.cjb.net. we like orange treble clef notes, just for future reference.

no: website for progs yet.
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Ian T
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 07:32
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A lot of people are acting really awed by it. Frankly it's no big deal. It's just like a nice PC you can't upgrade, shaped like a console but really heavy. It won't have half the capabilities of a PC either. Make that a quarter. No big deal at all.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
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Dave J
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 09:07
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http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTEy

My view still stands as it was 2 years ago.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 11:20
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Even if they do release it within the next 10 years or so, its got no real chance - its too expensive, and will really be up against the PS3 & XBOX 2.

By the way, is the XBOX really going to use PowerPC processors ? That'll be interesting as surely Microsoft would have to convert XP/Longhorn to the PCP - unless they with a different OS.


The place for all great plug-ins.
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IanM
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 14:24
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@Mouse, but you are not really the target audience - neither am I, or most of us here.

@TCA, they really are going to use PowerPC processors. Don't forget that Windows XP/embedded is what they are going to be using, and that is already fairly portable.

For free Plug-ins, source and the DBPro Interface library for Visual C++ 6 and .NET
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=C=
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 14:38
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I like the one tv top box that does it all but how long will it take until someone brings a software emulation that makes your PC connect to the Phantom network like a phantom and download games?

Also what's the problem of setting up a software aliance website where DarkBasic developers, and blitz basic alike, publish their work and setup a payment scheme to make a bit of a profit on the side.

Maybe the problem is noot enough of finished quality products?

-------------------------------
Pointy birds, Oh pointy pointy
Anoint my head, Anointy 'nointy
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 14:39 Edited at: 9th Feb 2004 14:41
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That could be interesting, especially if they do a full version of XP/Longhorn for the PowerPC processor - it would then work on Apple machines...

They may even use two PCP processors in the XBOX2...


The place for all great plug-ins.
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Arkheii
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 14:39
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The whole downloading games idea sounds more like an anti-piracy concept rather than a feature. It's just that, I don't think there are enough pheople who would welcome the idea just yet. It's like, having Windows without a bootdisk. Scary...

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DivW
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 15:51
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Uhh...this is real, and i'm pretty sure it's been out for a while now. It's just shrouded in rumours, which is probably why you havn't heard of it. I've been hearing these rumours since well before the PS2 came out, the same time i bought my N64...

-Dave

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 16:27
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It'll probably get scrapped before it gets to the production line anyway, so you may as well forget about it.

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Ian T
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 16:58
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@IanM-> Good point. However I keep wondering how long the attraction to families will last if/when the VPGN is hacked (i can't imagine it lasting very long). And the price tag is steep even for collectors.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

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newbi 2 basic
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 17:32
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lol
what about my console
its pretty much the phantom

http://www.counterfeitcriminal.co.uk/

Click random and then The FexBox

I wish i had the backing of a major compnay cause i would seriously think about building my own console and selling it

but I dont have the backing
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 17:49 Edited at: 9th Feb 2004 17:50
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that was one of the most unamasing topics i've read in my life.
the console doesn't have ANY set specifications yet,

http://www.infiniumlabs.com if you want to know more about it then checkout that site.

the main designer from the XBox is now in-charge of the company from Miami, FL ... know one knows anything because there is nothing to know right now apart from the ideas.
gamespy recently did a 3 page article expo on them which is currently on LLRGT for those who bother to visit there for thier information.

honestly don't even see why there is still the whole discussion on this crap like specs which the head of the company has even said
Quote: "We can not give anyone a set specification for the phantom. Simply because these change almost daily, and we can not predict them a month into the future let alone when it will actually be released."


he then went onto announce that he also couldn't give out the release date for similar reasons.

The Windows Kernel is 100% portable, currently as standard it supports Intel x86 and Intel Alpha processors for standard home systems; and for workstation versions you are able to purchase specific recompiled processor versions.
That said the Platform DDK give you direct access to the kernel and even the ability to rebuilt it real-time in 32/64bit build environments using MASM and Mircosoft C as the specification base. (which means you'll need Visual Studio 6.0/7.0 to be able to use the feature)

To enable PPC/68K/ARM/INSK/SG processors all you need to do is reprogram the given area's as you would for any other operating system and recompile.

This said why would they do this? The aim is to keep 100% IBM-Compatible Compatibility... this means like it or not it WILL have an x86 processor at it's core.
Question is will it be an x86-32 (Pentium/Athlon) or x86-64 (Athlon64/'Redcreek')

i don't know, they don't know, no one knows... so there really is little point in speculating.

the idea of the console is a good one, however to actually succeed within the western culture it is going to require bloody amazing PR and advertising to get widespread knowlage. Also a cheap price is a must, to undercut competitors who currently have the market cornered.

however in countries like Korea this console will be a godsend. a country where piracy is rife & broadband is as widely available and as cheap as a phoneline ... it is the perfect place for it to actually succeed.


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zircher
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 18:48
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Following the link in the first post, it looks like it will be $300.
I'd buy one, if I could canabalize the CPU, graphics card, and hard drive. Personally, I don't care for renting my software or paying for online services.
--
TAZ

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Dazzag
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 19:23 Edited at: 9th Feb 2004 19:23
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Quote: "there a easy way out that, that is that some of the file will be hosted on a remote saver."

If it ever got as big as it seems to think then this has got to be hell on anything less than a 10Mbit link. And just imagine the servers needed! If they had an exclusive FF15 (or something) and *everyone* wanted to play it. Aha, megabytes (using the file when you need it idea) and megabytes flying around, at pretty much the same time (with that many people). Tis not just pretty forums with a couple of graphics we are talking about here. And it's not even an Everquest type effort (as these have all graphics etc on the CD/DVD).

Hmmm. Wouldn't work on the mass market in my opinion. And if not, then what is the point?

Yep, Korea might be a good place for it (isn't it 10Mbits + on a standard connection out there?), but even then, a popular game (ie. thousands, if not millions of players to compete with X-Box, PS3 etc) with that much hitting it would be an awesome hit on the servers. Remember, 99% of multiplayer games are really just sending a few bits of information back and forth for location/ stats etc. Not whole chunks of graphics/ sounds/ movies/ etc.

Can't see it myself. And we're all still waiting on that web-only Office package from MS, to supposedly replace buying it in the shop. ie. Just pay for what you use. They have been harping on about that one for years. And that idea is much more acceptable than this games console.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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the_winch
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 19:59 Edited at: 9th Feb 2004 20:04
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I can't see how it can work either and if they don't release it quickly it will be dead. In not too long these http://www.mini-itx.com/ things are going to be fast enough to be able to play a large number of older games on your tv.

With computers getting faster smaller and cheaper it won't be long before decent computers are under the tv and then why buy a locked down version like Phantom that limits what you can do with it just because it's a bit cheaper than a small pc.

Our civilization faces three great dangers. The first is destruction by a nuclear war, the second is being crippled with overpopulation and the third is the Age of Leisure.
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Jeku
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Posted: 9th Feb 2004 20:13
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Good call, Raven, Korea will probably be a good place for this Phantom machine. Korea has the most gamers and are the most "wired" country per popula, and they will eat this up if there are lots of online multiplayer options.

The Xbox 2 rumoured specs are hilarious! It's been rumoured to not even have a hard drive! This will *kill* it as that's one of the huge selling points of the original. Plus this removal will make it impossible to be backwards compatible with the original--- making it unable to compete, once again, with the inferior PS2 (or PS3, whatever). The hard drive is great, I have mine modded and I use it for all kinds of cool undocumented things

[href][/href]
http://www.automatongames.com/
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Dr OcCuLt
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 03:06
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Quote: "If it ever got as big as it seems to think then this has got to be hell on anything less than a 10Mbit link."


go point realy. if a game is real popler it will have to be on more then one server ie one in london, new york, LA, tokyo and so on but if say lot of people start play on them ever big city will need one this will start costing a lot of money for the hosters.

i still say it do able to file hosted servers but i do`t think it do able if it have to be do`n on one small set of them.

--Dr 0--

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HZence
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 03:10
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Quote: "that was one of the most unamasing topics i've read in my life."


There you have it ladies and gentlemen: the jury has spoken!



Sorry I'm just being an ass.


Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
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Ian T
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 03:45
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Quote: "the console doesn't have ANY set specifications yet,"


Raven, Raven, Raven. Your first post here after getting whipped in the karma thread, and the first paragraph in it already has a critical falicy. Download the product sheet from Infinium Labs' site-- it has the product specs used in that article.

Jeez that took all of 30 seconds to find out

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

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Slayer
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 05:04
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Well hell, then we could all get a PC for only 300$

I dont know how to spell
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Mattman
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 05:21
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remember, its a broken computer

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james1980
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 05:37 Edited at: 10th Feb 2004 05:44
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http://www.phantom.net/
http://www.phantom.net/pfds/Phantom_Product_Sheet.pdf

well no place to put a game.

(i'm a nintendo fan so i won't get this.)
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Slayer
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 05:50
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Yah but were are you going to get a nforce 2 motherebord and
a 5.1 sound card. just that will cost like 700$.
I dont even have that in my PC. Programers should suport this thing,
because its going to be good for Programers. What if a bunch of monkeys buy this thing. Its going to help us out anyway in the future. So yay for us.

I dont know how to spell
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james1980
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 05:54
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if it can play a game you make I may think about it but if you need
some kind of boot code forget it.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 07:56 Edited at: 10th Feb 2004 07:57
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http://www.gamespy.com/articles/january04/infiniumlabs

Quote: "Kevin Bachus -
I can't tell you how much it's going to cost. I can't tell you exactly what the system specs are. These are things my team is working on right now.
"


that happens to the be guy who is not only in-charge of Infinium Labs, and also happens to be one of the original creators of the XBox, not to mention the XBox's head of PR (up until 3weeks ago!)
unless Gamespy is wrong ... which last time i knew they ONLY printed things which were true. (even though Valve would have you believe otherwise, but there have been something said on Gamespy that Valve never wanted the public to know!)


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Andy
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 09:20 Edited at: 10th Feb 2004 09:43
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>By the way, is the XBOX really going to use PowerPC processors ?
>That'll be interesting as surely Microsoft would have to convert
>XP/Longhorn to the PCP - unless they with a different OS.

Getting XP to run on either POWER or PPC would likely be relatively easy. Remember that the XP kernel is built on the NT kernel, which were available for both x86 and Alpha platforms. Alpha although much simpler than POWER or PPC, is similar in philosophy and doctrin, so provided that intel hasn't changed the kernel from 2 rings to 4 rings, it should be fairly simple to just rewrite the base device drivers and recompile(All other things being equal).

>Raven, Raven, Raven. Your first post here after getting whipped in
>the karma thread, and the first paragraph in it already has a
>critical falicy.

This is uncalled for. There is no need to transplant arguments from one topic to the next.

>Download the product sheet from Infinium Labs' site-- it has the
>product specs used in that article.

What Raven obviously refers to, and with which I agree, is the term 'Up to' used in conjunction with CPU and memory.

The whole point of a console is to have a standardized platform, so that you will know that every game will run exactly the same on every machine... Otherwise you will get the state of chaos already present in the world of the PC, where noone really knows how well a game will work on any given PC.

>The Windows Kernel is 100% portable, currently as standard it >supports Intel x86 and Intel Alpha processors for standard home
>systems; and for workstation versions you are able to purchase
>specific recompiled processor versions.

MS hasn't supported HP's Alpha since NT4 and even then there were no home version.

>To enable PPC/68K/ARM/INSK/SG processors all you need to do is
>reprogram the given area's as you would for any other operating
>system and recompile.

How about Big/Little Endian complications and all of the other interesting little problems associated with porting.

Andy
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 11:45
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Just think how miffed Apple would be if apple users had a choice between Jaguar & Windows...


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 17:44
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actually the Motorola-Intel Endian problem isn't really a problem; considering Codewarrior actually compiles in the Motorola style, and this is solved upon compilation by givin windows a pragma telling it that it's code is in reverse order.
that said it only takes a few minutes to do a flip-byte operation to get things working natively again.

Both OSX and Windows have the ability to have the others processors; and infact quite a few business solution versions of the operating systems have the additional processor setups within the kernel.

The reason why you can't run OSX on the x86 and Windows on the PPC is simply because Microsoft and Apple have a deal.
Microsoft keeps out of Apple's domain and in return Apple have 100% Windows compatibility, Apple keep out of Microsoft's domain and in return Windows has 100% OSX compatibility.

it's a very good two way street considering Jaguar is capable of communicating realtime with Windows using Remote Access just as Windows can communicate realtime with OSX using Remote Desktop.

atleast some company see no sense in slagging the competitors OS off, as a result both have majority market control over this proprioty formats. good business sense if you ask me.
the kiddie OS Linux could learn a thing or two from the big players of the park.

and Andy i'm not aware of the limitations on the Alpha processors capable to being used, as i've only used the Intel Alpha and Sun Alpha processors.
they both seem pretty stable; my guess would be that HP has deviated a lil too much from the Alpha processor specification if it no longer works even on generic terms.


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Jeku
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 18:35
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Call me dumb, but wasn't NT 4.0 available across all platforms including Apple's RISC processors?

Maybe this was a dream, but I could swear it was :p

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