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What do you think of it?
Rpg_Freak.

it looks powerfull but its a very different layout and interface compared to other applications.

It looks more complicated than powerful to me. I tried using it a few years ago, but the interface is so crud that it's quite difficult to learn. Some modelling apps make me feel right at home, Blender made me feel like I'd stood in dog poo and trailed it all over it's shag pile, it looked like the GUI had been designed by a dentist.

Trust me, there's 10 better freebie modelling packages out there. Look at JTEdit, DeleD, Anim8or - all of which have better support here, the authors of JTedit and DeleD even frequent these forums for feedback and to announce updates.


Van-B

this thing sucks very bad.

Nah, I've seen some very nice images done with Blender. It's just the learning curve looks more like a learning cliff. I've been told there has been some user interface reform in the latest edition.

The size of Blender's user base confirms that it is worth learning. But, you have to dedicate yourself to it and perhaps invest in the book or search out some tutorials.
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TAZ

The thing is that I've yet to see a model here that was made in blender. If someone posted some stuff made in it then I might look at the new version, because the principle of what blender wanted to do was great, probably got me kick started into persuing hobbyist coding again. The idea was that Blender is free, and you could use it as a one-stop 3D games system with a language and a modeller etc etc. I don't think it achieves this in any respectable way. If there's a guy out there who loves blender, it's because he loves Linux and has much fewer options. Blender was/is taught in universities running Linux and teaching C++ game development because it's free.


Van-B

I've mentioned in another thread that there is now an export script for .X. But, I don't have the desire to download everything and try to test it out since I now have skill with alternate solutions. (DoGA/Metasequoia/Milkshape)

thanx for your input.
Blender does look very complicated, but the images that I've seen on their website look extremely real. And the captions said that it was made and rendered in Blender so I'm still deciding on whether I should learn it or not.
Rpg_Freak.

blender is buggy and it's not better than milkshape for modeling.

Ok, I'll take that at face value. Can you be more specific or is that just an opinion?

Blender has rendering capability, game script support, web enabled plugins, python scripting, and it's free. It does not need to be better than Milkshape 3D to smoke it.

If I was starting out fresh today, I'd give Blender a serious attempt and decide for myself if the new version is worth it.
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TAZ

Ok...

Blender is maybe the most powerful and complete free 3d software out there. I know. (heck, it even has weight painting for characters...)

Maybe is also one of the hardest to learn. That's why they're making a huge effort to make it user friendly. Though, when I got used to it, I found like it. But There's a minority of people who reach this point, as many hours need to be spend, and reading carefully every bit of the now available blender documentation.Is better to go in order, for those interested.

I learnt metasequoia, Wings3d, Lithunwrap, deep paint3d (I have it purchased) , Ultimate Unwrap, Uv mapper, Character Fx, Amorphium, Max, etc, etc, without reading any doc. I needed though to read carefully the doc related to the stuff I wanted to do in Blender.

That maybe tells you something... Even though, all is carefully though, and is consistent. I failed with it over years, everytime I picked it, it got my nerves. I had to came back after lot of 3d experience with many othe rpackages, and a real desire of learning it, to get some success.

I do all my models with Wings3d (I find it extremely good for modelling) , uv map them in Ultimate Unwrap, and sometimes fix error at Milkshape, or add there smoothing groups, if really needed instead an autosmooth value. I animate with Character Fx, though I am moving to do my amateur projects with Blender, and with Art Of Illusion.

I do never planned to model in Blender. First thing I tested was if with correct python version installed for Blender 2.28c, (Python 2.2.3, If now I remembered well) the obj plugin importer worked well for me...It did. So i got my wings3d modelled character, and Ultimate Unwrap uv mapped character there.

Then I learnt how to handle the environment, basic editing objects, menus and UI way of doing, add lights and its properties, handle camera, soft shadows, materials and textures, adding armatures (skeletons) , adding weighted vertices (via selecting, or weight painting with brush!) per bone...I yet lack of keyframing and animation abilities, that'd be next.

Also learnt some basic rendering. Initially wanted all this as Blender has joint pinning, something missing in most free bones animation free softwares, that is, avoids feet slide or sink in the floor, and has IK...it's yet slow an complex to make an IK setup, way more complex than Character Studio of course...

But lately, as someone said, a directx8 with armatures export and animation is being worked out. Also, already there's a working import/export plugin (lacking yet some opengl commands, I'm afraid, interpolation, but this guy is pretty quick, he'll bang it soon, surely..) for md2 format. Soon to be an md3 one.

So...there you have a very powerful ik system for animate characters, with export to most game formats, and for free. Not yet, but is comming. The guy doing the md2 export, I trust on his apability and speed ...


The problem is...most people -yet- do get delussioned in trying to handle it.

Art Of Illussion also have bones with partial weights (Milkshape do not have it, resulting in much worse joint bending, and if dark Basic Pro supports this feature of weights per vertex-bone (i don't know) why then not use it when it'll bend really much nicer? ) , it has a much more easier joint pinning (fixing the joint to a point in space) and in general, much easier handling. Cons: you need to download java runtime, and it yet does not export to directx8 format, though is being asked for it. Neither md2, only OBJ format and some similar.


I'd say...Blender is good fo rthe VERY patient people. I don't see this as a drawback of Blender. As I am really patient and now that in art only patient brings a result. But some people can see this as disadvantage.

At last, both Blender and Art Of Illussion have Global Illumination (Blender has support of very advanced rendering via Yafray a very powerful renderer) , I don't remember very well, but you can expetc with these things like rendering caustics, bumps, speculars, etc, etc...Thi slast paragraph is for hi res rendering people, more than for 3d games...also for this people, Blender has an almost ended plugin for hair, and other for cloth, hi resolution cloh and hair I mean.

For Art Of Illusion, there a 9 MB manual also free to download. For Blender, at blender.org, you have got the online documentation, probably the best one. But also downloadable doc in several formats.
Don't pretend to learn Blender or AOI (maybe AOI could be) without careful doc reading.

My plans are using Blender and AOI as advanced character animators, and very good renderers. Blender also to animate and export towards realtime games; AOI, it depends, if the comunity of developers ends up adding directx8 format, and fully.

All I can say...I am an experienced 2d/3d guy, even did it in companies, and maybe that helped a lot in understanding Blender. But for sure, Blender is very powerful. Yet quite far from Max or Maya's power, of course. But you can't compare. Find the stuff that Blender gives you for free...I havent see it in other freebie. Not even in cheap world. Not so complete.

Now, for those of you who will try Blender, many of you will think is rubbish once you don't find a single clue of how to handle it...Don't blame me, I told you. Is reading the doc, and being really patient. I don't know...if i was not very experienced at 3d, if I could have learned it though, so here i can either ensure a thing.

Last note...I come here from very time to time..I may not see this thread again, if happens so, excuse me...

look a post like ravens very long.

well the thing that every one go's through us wich one they like better the ony way to decide is to try them all and look like you did. good luck.

the blender site seems to be down...

[edit] scratch that... today it seems to be fine

I post long, often..

But there's quite info there.

I forgot the best advice.

Blender is hard to learn, you needda try though as it may suit you. but with reading the doc.

The easy, safe, tested with games way is next one (involves money, sorry)

- Wings3d www.wings3d.com for modelling (this is not so easy, but easier than Blender) if not metasequoia modeller is quite powerful and easy too. Le version exports in X format, and cob. But is for no coemrcial projects. You would be not acting well if you use it later on a project where you gain money. http://www21.ocn.ne.jp/~mizno/main_e.html
Not sure about Metasequoia shreware type of license, though.(it cant export to other format than mqo native format. )

-Ultimate Unwrap for uv mapping and animation conversions, plus welding model, and other nice things. Another total first class tool. beating much of the big names in 3d. 35$ or 40, cant remember.

-texturing. Gimp is again like Blender to aodbe or PSP. Powerful but hard to learn for most ppl. As is also harder to 2d paint a uv template than 3d paint a model. Easier way (again ..BUY...42$ ) Tatoo 3d painter. www.terabit.nildram.co.uk/tattoo/
There are lots of 2d packages available for free to go and purchase one. No 3d painter for free instead. No any good. But PSP can do lots of things for those with money to waste.

-Character Fx v1.34 www.insanesoftware.de (only 15$!!!) for making actually the animations and exporting as directx 8 boned animations. With full control over weights (milkshape only asign 1.0, rigid vertex only)for smooth bending, spline or linear animation, scaling time, mesh, etc, etc. The best dx8 exporter I have seen. But do never mirror bones inside Character Fx. Trust me.
For now, the best animation tool for realtime games in the cheap market. Imho. Considering also ease of use, of course. As as powerful, is more powerful Blender, once the python script-plugin allows dx8 bones export. Character Fx also allows export as md2.

You can after export, load the dx8 animated character into Ultimate Unwrap again, it preserves animation,(sometimes seen weird in Ultimate's 3d viewport, but the internal data is intact) remap it, change it, convert it to other formats, etc.


You don't need to purchase 3d exploration...300$..it costs taht for mainly companies. It can be invaluable fo rmany tasks...but for game editing...Ultimate Unwrap converts SUCH a quantity of formats..and its main ability is mapping, this comes as an addon advantage.

Ultimate unwrap also export as md2 and animated dx8.

so it's.... 42+15+35 plus the free tools. (quite less than 300 dollars, and allows everything in games)

I use this combo and works. But took quite time to learn it all. As with any tool. But easier than belnder, if you compare with each.

I don't trust Deep Exploration, it's good for exploring your hard drive looking for models, but it's export features are quite unreliable.

I like to make my mesh in Rhino, UV map it in Lithunwrap, save it as a .3DS, then import that into CharacterFX for animating. CFX can export directly to .X which can then be loaded into DBPro. No real need to convert anything as long as your mesh starts as .3DS.


Van-B

The deal with Metasequoia and Metasequoia LE is that nobody in the US can register the current version of Metasequoia. I have tried several times in the past, but with no success. I'd do the right thing if they'd let me. :-(

From a technical perspective, .X models have no identification data that says model X was made with product Y or product Z.
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TAZ

Actually, I also wrote to Metasequoia's author, and he never answered. Several times. I wanted to make a direct purchase, but no way.

Ultimate Unwrap open mqo format, just perfectly. It does not loose or change a thing.(actually, ultimate also open x, cob, dxf, obj, 3dx, an8, a bunch of games, BSPs, etc, etc, etc..it seems he likes adding formats, and that is specially useful.)

Even more, there's a free max mqo import plugin. Seems there's some few people that like this modeller. IMHO is very good.

There's a renderer with caustics for mqo, called Pathernon. Not of much use for games, though.

There's also a modeller that will import mqo format, and has bones and all. Pitty even the menu options (not only the help an doc, but the whole software, you cant even play to try and guess, actually ) are in japanese.

It's called Moto or something.

Metasequoia was thought for modelling game characters, as far as I know. And once you know it, it simply rocks.

Its author can't sell outside Japan, it's a pitty. It's been largely used by flight simulation online gamers, they edit their planes with it, they specially like the virtual mirror. But at last I prefer Wings3d's virtual mirror. Other than that, Metasequoia allows you to create isolated vertex in space, and faces, that is , non solid. In wings, al must be a solid, though there are tricks.

As you all are db pro users, Metasequoia is sure useful, as it directly export x format.

btw, I convert my wings's objs to x with Ultimate Unwrap.

my Theme Hospital game that i have started on today is going to be made using models all made from Blender
The new interface of blender is alot easier than the old interface and also it is not buggy anymore as updates come out everyday.
all my images on my website are made within Blender
Blender when used properly can easily beat other freeware apps
as it has a great workflow, Raytracing, Refraction, and an inbuilt game engine
take a look at www.3dworldmag.com go to the forums and look at for critque under the name sspikedudley you will find my blender made puegeot

Blender is awesome, Just har to learn

I just saw an article where they now have a python script to export to Torque DTS format. It would be sweet to see someone do something similar for DBO files.
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TAZ

if I could learn a little more about chunk-based file reading/writing, and if I had a C/C++ compiler, I'd have a go at making a .dbo exporter for milkshape, but alas I don't have either of the above

Walaber,
Why not go looking for that C++ thread in gen discussion - I got the DevC++ compiler from Bloodshed: http://www.bloodshed.net/

It's fairly straightforward, friendlier than I expected anyway - still haven't learned very much C++ yet though!, I reckon I need to buy a book before I'll get anywhere.


Van-B