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3 Dimensional Chat / Newbie seeking information on modeling.

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Someone
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Joined: 22nd Feb 2004
Location: Australia
Posted: 3rd Mar 2004 14:31
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Hey guys, I just started doing this 3D Stuff late last week, so I'm really new at it.

I use Wings 3D And I just happened to get into it, but I"ve only been programming DB for about a week or two, so I don't really know what I can and can't do. In DB Coding (DBC) I can't do much more than manipulate shapes on a screen, I'm working on that tho.

Anyways, after making a couple basic things in Wings I got to wondering, just how do I animate these, and is there some way I'm gonna need to save stuff so I can use it in game? (I've got the whole .3ds/.x converting thingy worked out)

Also any criticism on what I've done so far in Wings'd be nice. Heres some pics.




Call me Dean.
PC1: 2.0 Ghz AMD Athlon XP - 512 Meg DDR RAM - GeForce FX 5200, PC2: 0.5 Ghz P3 - 256 Meg SD RAM - GeForce2 MX 400, PC3: 2.5 Ghz P4 - 256 Meg DDR RAM - Integrated Video Card
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Van B
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2004 15:15
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Those are both really good models, with really insane polycounts. You need to work on using minimal poly counts and rely on texturing to give the illusion of detail - for example that gun is probably close to 1000 polies, you need it to be no more than 300 polies. That turret on the tank looks like it's made from 32 sided cylinders, you should really be using 8 sided cylinders. Don't worry too much if your model looks too blocky in wireframe mode, once a model is textured it always looks far better. A good polycount for a tank would be about 1000 polies, the body looks fine on that one, but the turret and the wheels would need re-doing. I would consider using flat sided tracks too - when UV mapping those, you'd use a track image and plain map it right through so there will be an edge, it will look strange with the chamfer you have. UV mapping tracks like that is a pain in the ass, and there's no easy way to make them.

I haven't used Wings very much, so I'm not sure if you can animate with it or not, unfortunately 3DSMax is probably the best program for limb animated models and that's very expensive.

Limb animated models are made from seperate meshes in the same model that are linked to each other, quite like the bones in a skeleton. For example, your tank there would be broken into it's moving parts, each wheel would be a seperate part, and each wheel would be linked to the body. A pivot point is important too, each piece needs to know it's centre for propper movement - it's quite mechanical and straightforward really. You should look for features like limb pivot points, and link hierarchy. Once you set the pivots and link your model together you can animate the model.

Setting up your model for animation is known as rigging, and once your model is rigged you can load it into DB and rotate the limbs to move the model, so it would be possible to create your own animation program in DB. The onion in the ointment is that rigging is something that most modelling packages can't do.

Look into DeleD and JTEdit, they're free and might help with rigging and animating.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
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JeroenNL
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2004 23:20
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Oops, DeleD can't do animation yet...

Use the free 3D modeller DeleD to get skilled in 3d editing! Visit http://www.delgine.com for more info.
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Gjl
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Posted: 4th Mar 2004 00:07 Edited at: 4th Mar 2004 00:08
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The base of the tank looks too thick if you ask me, it doesn't look very streamlined. Also I don't like the grip of the handgun (looks more like a clip which wouldnt be exposed on a handgun). It looks you're modelling a Desert Eagle to me. Check this link out for a nice photo of a desert eagle (http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1200/1224.htm) Also you might want to visit http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/all.htm for a huge gallery of guns.

However, the models are really nice and well detailed. These are really good if you are new to modelling as you say you are.
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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 4th Mar 2004 03:09 Edited at: 4th Mar 2004 03:23
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Unfortunately Wings3d can't animate. Which is very sad, because it looks like you create beautiful things with it. You might want to keep those saved, then create low poly versions of them so you can them use the high-poly ones in pre-rendered cutscenes.

You can always find a free 3d program that animates. I believe JTEdit animates, as does trueSpace 3.2(older version of trueSpace, now freeware), Blender3d(kind of a steep learning curve), and Milkshape3d (which is only $25).

If I could have it my own way I would use gmax, but there is no way that I have found to export gmax animations, plus many on this board who have looked long and hard at the license agreement tell us it's illegal to use it with anything else that doesn't have a registered game pack. That's probably a program to avoid.

Crazy Donut Productions
Current Project: KillZone
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Someone
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Posted: 4th Mar 2004 12:50
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Cool, thanks guys, That helps a bunch.

To be prefectly honest I had no idea what I was doing, or hoping to achieve in making these things, but when I started making that tank (the first one I made) I barely knew how to extrude stuff, so I admittedly went way overboard.

I rekon the best thing I got out of making those two models was the knowledge of how to model, because before them all I'd done was simple things like pac-man and a kind of bocky slap-inserted-objects-togethery kind of junk.

As for rigging limbs and stuff together do you suggest I make all the objects (limbs, wheels, turets or whatevers) seperately so I an import them into whatever other program seperately?

Gjl, I don't quite understand what you mean about the base of the tank, but I agree with you on the gun handle, I diddn't like it much either, but I was gettign bored so I figured what they hey, And thanks for that link, I'll probebly use that URL a lot. I'm really taking to this modeling stuff, & I aspire to make a 1st Person shooter, being less than 3 weeks into DBC Programming, and less than a week into 3D modeling tho, I'm not expecting to even start that project any time soon

& Crazy Donut Productions, thats a good suggestion, I'll do that. And I'll also download JTEdit and see wha I can do about getting myself MilkShape3d. Judging by most the posts on this forum that would seam to be what most people use...

Thanks again guys, all you replies were really helpful. I wouldn't want to have continued making stuff not knowing what I'm doing .

I'll post up my lower poly remakes of the above models when their done, in the mean time, can someone who knows Wings3D Please tell me how in it's manual in the building a hand tut it gets the loop edges on the hand? I'm stumped at that point, & Have no idea how he did it.

Thanks.

Call me Dean.
PC1: 2.0 Ghz AMD Athlon XP - 512 Meg DDR RAM - GeForce FX 5200, PC2: 0.5 Ghz P3 - 256 Meg SD RAM - GeForce2 MX 400, PC3: 2.5 Ghz P4 - 256 Meg DDR RAM - Integrated Video Card
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Someone
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Posted: 4th Mar 2004 13:23
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Hey again, heres a poly'd down version of the tank, the this one's only 2050 poly's (after teselating triangulate) - but 1000 of those are just in the wheels, so that's probebly easy to drop somehow. Anyways, the old tank was 125,000 poly's (when triangulated - which I read somewhere here was the best way to get a poly count in wings)


Oh, and, uhh. How do I get rid of a bounding box? :S



Call me Dean.
PC1: 2.0 Ghz AMD Athlon XP - 512 Meg DDR RAM - GeForce FX 5200, PC2: 0.5 Ghz P3 - 256 Meg SD RAM - GeForce2 MX 400, PC3: 2.5 Ghz P4 - 256 Meg DDR RAM - Integrated Video Card
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Van B
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Posted: 4th Mar 2004 13:59
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Great progress Someone, glad to see your listening and developing your work, you've already got more modelling skill than most people who've been practising for months (years in some cases).

Again, I'm not familiar with wings, but each limb should be in the same object, the way you have it now is probably ideal - as long as you can click on the wheel and highlight the whole wheel on it's own, you'll be fine - always try and minimise the amount of limbs though, if 2 parts can be stuck together, stick them together. You do sometimes have to think about the mechanics of animated models, like if that turret moves, you may want to add a definite pivot - like a cylinder at the base that it'll pivot on. You could'nt really raise or lower your turret how it is, so a little hinge at the base keeps it logical. As you said, the wheels could loose some detail to reduce the polycount.

It's always tough when you have to do everything yourself, I mean you'll have to learn texturing too, which unfortunately is just as difficult as modelling - texturing can be fun though, once you know how it works and your able to be artistic with it. A good texture job can make any model look good. Once thing before you rig or animate anything, the best route is model, UV map, then rig and animate - it's very easy to loose animation data when exporting or importing, so it's best to get a system together that works and stick to it.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
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granada
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Posted: 4th Mar 2004 20:11 Edited at: 4th Mar 2004 20:20
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Hi all this is a tank i made in DeLeD
http://www.delgine.com/index.php?filename=deledshots

(just for fun its not meant for a game)

Objects 103
Polys 2149





dave

just trying to learn
athlon 1.3,windows xp home,512ram,gforce 5600256ddr
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granada
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Posted: 6th Mar 2004 17:34
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Hi all

Somebody just pointed out to me how bad it was for me to post my model on this thread ( sorry someone).
It was a spure of the moment thing,please exuse my ignorance everybody

dave

just trying to learn
athlon 1.3,windows xp home,512ram,gforce 5600256ddr
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Someone
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Posted: 6th Mar 2004 17:38
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S'ok Granada, I think I"ll just take this opportunity to ask again, can someone who knows Wings3D Please tell me how in it's manual in the building a hand tut it gets the loop edges on the hand? I'm stumped at that point, & Have no idea how he did it.

Because I think a bunch of people probebly missed that the first time around, and I really need to know... my Software Dev teacher (who I'm treaching Wings to) Say's the manual's useless if I can't explain it. (No one else at the school knows a scratch of 3D modeling)

Call me Dean.
PC1: 2.0 Ghz AMD Athlon XP - 512 Meg DDR RAM - GeForce FX 5200, PC2: 0.5 Ghz P3 - 256 Meg SD RAM - GeForce2 MX 400, PC3: 2.5 Ghz P4 - 256 Meg DDR RAM - Integrated Video Card
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Van B
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Posted: 12th Mar 2004 13:58
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Look back, back like 5 months or so - forum used Actarus is a great modeller and he uses Wings - he made a tutorial video a while back which was basically an introduction to character modelling, but he used edgeloops a lot.

I suppose you could try emailing him if you can't find it - but that video would obviously be pretty useful to you and your class.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
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flibX0r
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Posted: 13th Mar 2004 18:02
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Hey someone, where in australia are you?

Current Project: Interactive DBPro Showcase Example
Project Status: Game COde Structure Done
http://www.w3th.tk <-- Soon to have some content
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