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Geek Culture / Manga artwork and cartoon shading...

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Lampton Worm
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Posted: 11th Mar 2004 12:03
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Hi,

Does anyone have any good resources/references for advice on Manga artwork and/or cartoon shading in computer games? Specifically 2d.

I'm wondering also if its possible (I have PSP btw) to turn a scanned photo into a toon and/or manga "look", in the same way you can for example change an image to b/w, chrome etc.? It sounds unlikely but I thought it was worth a check

Obviously I could just learn to draw the style (or get some hired hands) of art how I want it to look and scan it, but I have some existing images that I want to play about with first.

Come to think of it, a decent way to do toon shading in MilkShape would do, then I could snapshot the model and use the image on a sprite...

Cheers
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BatVink
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Posted: 11th Mar 2004 14:27
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Cinema 4D does toon shading, there are free versions on magazine CDs every now and then. You could use this to do what you say, animate a 3D model, render and apply to a sprite.

BatVink (formerly StevieVee)
http://facepaint.me.uk/catalog/default.php
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zircher
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Posted: 11th Mar 2004 16:51 Edited at: 11th Mar 2004 17:58
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DoGA L3 has several anime/cell shading render modes and they are tweakable so you can turn them into manga-like line rendering as well. So, you could create multi-jointed models in DoGA L3, pose them, and render stills for manga. If you don't need movies, this is a nice and cheap option (as in free.)

I'll see about rendering some examples later today and posting them.
--
TAZ

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zircher
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Posted: 11th Mar 2004 17:58 Edited at: 11th Mar 2004 18:01
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Here ya go, this small render shows off some of DoGA material properties and how you can do manga/anime styles as well as effects such as translucency and chrome. Not bad for a freebie.

http://zircher.iwarp.com/doga/doga_sfx.html

I can't draw my way out of a paper bag, but I could fake a manga or anime drawing using DoGA L3. With a little practice, you can set up a 'studio' of multi-jointed characters and prop and create a regular web comic or other project.

http://www.doga.co.jp/english

Just a note, you might want to start off with L2 since it has better help files. But if you want to jump straight into L3, I have translated the Part Assembler help file into English here:

http://zircher.iwarp.com/doga/
--
TAZ

BTW, since these are mainly render effects, they will not export to .X if you wanted to use them inside of DBP.

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BatVink
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Posted: 11th Mar 2004 19:16 Edited at: 11th Mar 2004 19:17
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Nice!

Much better than the Cinema 4D options, which probably could do some of this at a push, but the parameters are very difficult to understand. Plus, it definitely couldn't do the line-drawing style outlines.

BatVink (formerly StevieVee)
http://facepaint.me.uk/catalog/default.php
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zircher
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Posted: 11th Mar 2004 19:33 Edited at: 11th Mar 2004 19:42
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Thanks, but I have to give credit to the tools.

For the line drawing effect, all you have to do is select the material and click on edit details. That pops up a windows dialog box that has graphical controls for lit and unlit shading, line width and color, etc.

I could have just as easily set the material up for a moody sepia brown or Tron-like neon colors.
--
TAZ


One of the perks to this is after you learn how to make posable models, it becomes so easy to create stories. You can use DoGA's motion editor to 'set the stage' and then go to town with posing, lighting, and camera angles. You could even go as far as setting up a walk animation with a moving camera and take stills at desired frames. A multi-page dialog sequence that might take days to draw can be posed and rendered in a fraction of the time. From there, you can take the images into your favorite graphics editor and add lettering and such.

I consider it a great tool for those that can design characters, but can't draw worth beans. (Myself included.)

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BatVink
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Posted: 12th Mar 2004 00:43
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Zircher, it doesn't appear to be free, it says $40 or no rendering option.

BatVink (formerly StevieVee)
http://facepaint.me.uk/catalog/default.php
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zircher
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Posted: 12th Mar 2004 01:02 Edited at: 12th Mar 2004 01:05
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That's for making AVI movies or automating a set of sequential renders. You can use the motion editor and take all the still images that you want.
--
TAZ, unofficial English speaking DoGA guru

Just a little reminder, I'm a DoGA evangelist and a volunteer on the BBS. But, I'm not an employee and I don't get a dime for any sales. Heh, I don't even speak the same language as Team DoGA.

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time_hawk
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Posted: 12th Mar 2004 04:28
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It is possible to convert a photo to an anime (or cell shading, or cartoon, or however you wish to say it) look.

I managed it (on a head) using layers, with the original image as the bottom layer, and started by working out the various regions (hair, eyes, etc).

I used a layer for each region of the image, and then once all the lines (borders) are where you need them copy the file and merge all the layers. then fill in the gaps in the required colours. Shading and shadows etc takes longer.
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james1980
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Posted: 12th Mar 2004 06:31
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maya vector is nice.
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walaber
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Posted: 12th Mar 2004 10:11
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hey zircher if you have any questions about Japanese send me a message, I can probably help.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
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Lampton Worm
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Posted: 12th Mar 2004 10:57
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Hi,

Thanks all - I had Doga a while back, I think I need to re-visit it, sounds like what I'm after now.

@Zircher - I don't see any images on that first link?

http://zircher.iwarp.com/doga/doga_sfx.html

Cheers.
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zircher
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Posted: 12th Mar 2004 17:28
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Strange, the doga_sfx.html file should display doga_sfx.jpg and some obnoxious banner adds. Try pasting,

http://zircher.iwarp.com/doga/doga_sfx.jpg

into your address bar and see if that works.

---

@walaber, thanks for the offer. So far I have some success in translating files via web translation tools and then applying common sense and my expertise with Doga. It's a little tedious, but doable. I've got pages and pages that I'd love to see translated, but that really wouldn't be fair to you. Perhaps we can work out a trade or something.
--
TAZ

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Lampton Worm
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Posted: 12th Mar 2004 18:29
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Ah, thats better - cool effects, they look like what I'm after - thanks.
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UnderLord
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Posted: 13th Mar 2004 20:25
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oh god anime is taking over and it is getting old fast....

The search continues.

Current project - A space game
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BatVink
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Posted: 13th Mar 2004 23:40
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@Time_Hawk: Photo art master can do that, and does exactly what you have done. It simplifies the process of building up the layers.

BatVink (formerly StevieVee)
http://facepaint.me.uk/catalog/default.php
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zircher
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Posted: 14th Mar 2004 01:17 Edited at: 14th Mar 2004 06:58
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I'd say that anime is far from taking over. Anime itself is an evolving art form/style. Not a single anime program has shown up on prime time national television and I don't think a single manga book has broken the Times best seller list.

Since I'm a sci-fi fan, anime has always held some appeal for me due to the above average number of shows that have some sci-fi elements.
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TAZ

[edit for typos]

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UnderLord
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Posted: 14th Mar 2004 05:10
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not on the Sci-Fi channel thank god =) not saying its bad but it gets old after awhile

The search continues.

Current project - A space game
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zircher
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Posted: 14th Mar 2004 07:14
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I might use some anime for the cut scenes in my next big game project. Not because it is required, but I can pull that off and pretend that I actually have some skill/style.

After all, game development is a lot like drawing comic books. The presentation of the media and the suspension of dis-belief is more important to story telling than slavish attention to detail.

Given the success of some recent titles that use cell shading, I think I can pull off that style within a game and find it acceptable.
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TAZ

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zircher
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Posted: 18th Mar 2004 16:56 Edited at: 18th Mar 2004 16:56
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@walaber, I think I might have found a reasonable solution to my translation problems. If I place the help files on the web, I can create a link to them through Babelfish and get some results.

For example, here are the Metasequoia LE help files.
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/urltrurl?lp=ja_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fire-on-the-suns.com/meta/help

[Sorry, can't make it an active link.]

Hopefully, I can get similar files from Team DoGA for L3 and post them. Then, all I'd have to do create the English language screen shots.
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TAZ

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