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Geek Culture / €497 millionfine levied against Microsoft

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empty
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Posted: 25th Mar 2004 12:36
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Quote: "Does this with my IE as well. That is the technology behind IE--- it precaches the entire page first. I prefer to see everything load up which is why I use Firefox, but that's besides the point..."

I doesn't cache the entire page first. That becomes obvious with pages that contain very long lists of something.


Quote: "Wrong. Ever since I've been using IE (since version 3), it's had the same interface as usability as File Explorer. They looked and behaved exactly the same! If you open up IE and type C:WINDOWS in the address bar, it'll look and feel just like File Explorer! And vice versa! This has ALWAYS been apparent with IE."

They don't look and behave the exactly the same (Menus, Options, Toolbar?). As I said, they do share libraries. The libraries that the IExplorer provides, are heavily used by other win apps, too. And there's a lot of stuff in these libs that are unrelated to the internet. That's one of the reasons why MS said they can't unbundle the IE.

Me, I'll sit and write this love song as I all too seldom do
build a little fire this midnight. It's good to be back home with you.
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empty
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Posted: 25th Mar 2004 12:41
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Quote: "You do know that without those bundled programs, Windows would be a stripped down OS. So you buy WinXP without IE and without WMP, etc. So how do you expect to access the internet or play media files? Download off the internet? Definitely not (duh, IE wasn't installed, stupid)."

So when you buy a PC from your favourite IT shop, you don't get a pile of (non-MS) software bundled with it? Bundled by the SHOP (and stuff that you want), not by MS (stuff that MS wants you to have).

Me, I'll sit and write this love song as I all too seldom do
build a little fire this midnight. It's good to be back home with you.
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Neophyte
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Posted: 25th Mar 2004 12:48
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" physics engines (ask Neophyte)"



Ahh, yes. The Karma thread. *eyes glaze over with nostalga*

Heh, didn't Raven say he was leaving the forums though? I wonder what prompted the feathered one's return.
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DivW
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Posted: 25th Mar 2004 12:58 Edited at: 25th Mar 2004 13:04
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Fact: In Scotland, if someone knocks your door and asks to use the toilet, you can be thrown in jail for saying no.
Fact: In England, it's legal to shoot a welshman after midnight with a crossbow as long as you are clear of the city limits.
Fact: Laws tend to get confused and contradict each other. Everyone makes mistakes.

My point is: yes the laws could be wrong. Instead of a big fine, a better solution would be to make Microsoft provide links to alternatives. Yes, it seems unlikely-but Microsoft could then avoid the fine. As it's given away free, then i think it's rediculous to say they are Monopolising the Market. They don't charge, they only lose money in development fees. They also provide free e-mail service, would you sue them for that? This is pointless. Utterley pointless.

-Dave

Your soul...it tastes like chicken

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Dave J
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Posted: 25th Mar 2004 13:16
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You can monopolise the market by giving away everything for free, all it means is that the whole market uses your software and not some other companies. Which is exactly Microsofts plan, they want people to be using their software so they can charge for it or other similar software later on.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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DivW
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Posted: 25th Mar 2004 14:42
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Yeah, but if the point of the monopolising rules is to stop one product from becoming expensive, this defies the point of it. They might perhaps plan to wipe out the competition then start to charge-but we all know that this wouldn't work as there's too many freeware media players out there anyway. In giving something away for free, i don't see how it can be listed as Monopolising-actually, i guessed i just figured it out. Real Player etc. are companies where they have to charge - if Microsoft give it away for free, then these companies can't. Well i think i'll just leave this one alone, because it's a dead end argument. It's Microsoft's thing and if they want to give it away then that's fine with me-but to prevent the other companies being liquidised or bought over something like this needs to be done, i guess. Maybe this is the wrong solution though...

Ah, who cares?

-Dave

Your soul...it tastes like chicken

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jrowe
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Posted: 25th Mar 2004 20:48
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Quote: "You think that's bad? RealOne tries to take over 85% of your extension handling! Of course WMP is set to default media player when installed on a new PC-- that's all there is! Every media product tries to do this, even WinAmp."


Which is why I don't use either . My policy is you get what you pay for, and I wont't pay for either.


For Fathers and Sons who enjoy wholy spirits.
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John H
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Posted: 25th Mar 2004 22:15
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Anyone who has taken an economics course should know how incredibly wrong this lawsuit is. I have one thing to say about this

Atlas Shrugged


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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 25th Mar 2004 22:21
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ReD_eYe shrugs aswell... he doesn't care

In the beginning, the universe was created...
This made alot of people very angry and it has been widely regarded as a bad idea...
Visit http://redeye.dbspot.com
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the_winch
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Posted: 25th Mar 2004 23:07
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Quote: " Anyone who has taken an economics course should know how incredibly wrong this lawsuit is."


Perhaps you should explain how it is bad for the economy.
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Neophyte
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 01:07
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@RPGamer

" I have one thing to say about this
Atlas Shrugged"

Err...Atlas Shrugged was a work of fiction. It had no bearing on reality whatsoever.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 01:24 Edited at: 26th Mar 2004 01:27
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*Watches in shock as RPGamer gets flamed*
Anyway, I thought it would be good for the economy

Always have, never will =)
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Neil19533
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 02:05
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they have to sell media player it is because many people would rather download something for nothing than pay for it so real player loose loads of buisiness

I wonder where that fish did go, a fish, a fish, a fish, O
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Mattman
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 03:16
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Today's newspaper i read and that article said 613 million
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MikeS
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 03:22 Edited at: 26th Mar 2004 03:23
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$613 million is probably about the same as €497 million. (assuming you meant $613 million U.S dollars. If not, WOW!)



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
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MicroMan
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 05:16
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Atlast Shugged happens to be the work of a really weird russian philosopher called Ayn Rand that preaches the old Gordon Gekko (from the movie Wall Street with Michael Dougkas) truism that 'greed is good'. Except Ayn Rand goes further and says that the essence of civilisation is egoism.

Which I disagree with.

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They SAID that given enough time a million monkeys with typewriters could recreate the collected works of William Shakespeare... Internet sure proved them wrong.
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Arkheii
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 05:22
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Quote: "So when you buy a PC from your favourite IT shop, you don't get a pile of (non-MS) software bundled with it? Bundled by the SHOP (and stuff that you want), not by MS (stuff that MS wants you to have)."


Nope If you buy a pre-designed PC, you only get the PC, no OS yet haha. Of course, it should be common knowledge by now to design the specs for your own PC and not follow the crappy Pentium4 with a TNT2 that the shop offers for like 1/5 the price you expected it to be.


"Story in a game is like story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important." - John Carmack
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 05:47
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UK Penalty in Euros - fixed value
Conversion to USD - varies at any given second



Home of the VB.NET Class Builder Utility - Demo available now!
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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 06:02
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this is some stupid sh*t! I swear, so many laws are corrupt! OJ Simpson was set free!!!But, of course, Microsoft is doing JUST what you would do if you were Bill Gates, no matter how much sh*t you had for brains!!!

You're just jealous cuz the voices don't talk to you!!!
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las6
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 09:46
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I think most of you are missing the point totally. it's not just the bundling...

Quote: "It would be like a car company putting their own stero equipment in the car, and getting sued for it."


ehm, You can choose if you want the stereo equipment or even ask for better equipment when you're buying the car. Basically, you are not Forced to take the equipment with the car.

But in WMP's case, you can't really get rid of it. The only thing you can Uninstall is the Shortcut icons... or that's what it says at least.


Keyboard not detected. Press F1 to continue.
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the_winch
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 09:59 Edited at: 26th Mar 2004 10:03
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I think it might better be described if there was only one main car company which supplied a stereo that only played special radio signals encoded in a way that was patented by the car company and the stereo was connected to the main electronics in such away that it was very difficult for another company to make a replacement.
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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 10:04
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Quote: "The only thing on windows I have a real problem with is that DAMNED windows messenger. It always signs me on without me knowing it getting a lot of people pissed off at me for not responding (cuz Im really not at the computer)"
u can uninstall that and download msn messenger (you'll notice differences once you make the change)

Quote: "Bill Gates, no matter how much sh*t you had for brains!!!"

if you had sh*t for brains you wouldnt be where bill gates is now. face it, hes a billionare cos he has the brain power to start a business from scratch and in a sense start up entire industries and then handle the business and watch it grow. you need more than sh*t for brains to do that eh?

http://www.quuxuum.org/~evan/bgnw.html#Charity i'd respect him more if he did do things like that, but it is his own choice. sigh

http://www.tinnedhead.tk under re-construction.
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newbi 2 basic
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 10:36
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arsed reading the rest but i have to applaud AOL on this one

the AOL browser is made up from the IE SDK but AOL own netscape (why is this?)

well AOL have microsoft by their ballsack! THink about how many people use AOL....

Now fi Microsoft do something that AOL dont like they threaten that they will change there AOL browser over to Netscape technology .. Makes Microsoft take a leap back cause that is potentially millions people not using IE anymore and if AOL advertise it right people will download Netscape because they will think that Netscape is better than IE (which it is) and want to download that


Pretty good of them

http://www.counterfeitcriminal.co.uk <--- Sons Of Angels Supports the fridge project.... Do you?
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Arkheii
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 11:10
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Quote: "Now fi Microsoft do something that AOL dont like they threaten that they will change there AOL browser over to Netscape technology .. Makes Microsoft take a leap back cause that is potentially millions people not using IE anymore and if AOL advertise it right people will download Netscape because they will think that Netscape is better than IE (which it is) and want to download that"


It is? I had cookie problems when I tried Netscape.


"Story in a game is like story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important." - John Carmack
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newbi 2 basic
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 13:03
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well it is and it isnt.
but you can see where I am getting at if AOL announce a change in the SDK they use the general public will go "Oh! so that must be better" and follow the change

http://www.counterfeitcriminal.co.uk <--- Sons Of Angels Supports the fridge project.... Do you?
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newbi 2 basic
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 13:09
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I read something on the first page about "IE doing what its ment to do" well they boast about security in it and yet there are SO many flaws I mean remember that one where you clicked on the link a it looked like you were going to ebay but infact you went to a mock up site... Well i think its was only IE that had this Issue all the other browsers addressed it.


People expect alittle security when browsing the net especially when putting in credit card details

http://www.counterfeitcriminal.co.uk <--- Sons Of Angels Supports the fridge project.... Do you?
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newbi 2 basic
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 13:14 Edited at: 26th Mar 2004 13:15
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and actualy the reason why most webpages look normal in IE and not in another other is because webdesigner have to change bits to make it look normal in IE... I mean my mate does some webdesigning and he get really annoyed at how Pages look ok in every other browser and not in IE... But since most people use IE he HAS to mod the code to suit IE which then p*sses of the other browsers

http://www.counterfeitcriminal.co.uk <--- Sons Of Angels Supports the fridge project.... Do you?
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newbi 2 basic
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 13:18 Edited at: 26th Mar 2004 13:22
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Quote: " Microsoft supporter here. You do know that without those bundled programs, Windows would be a stripped down OS. So you buy WinXP without IE and without WMP, etc. So how do you expect to access the internet or play media files? Download off the internet? Definitely not (duh, IE wasn't installed, stupid). "


They are not asking to completly remove IE cause IE is pretty much the backbone (well apart from the Kernel of course ) but it is part of Windows Explorer of Windows... They are asking to have 1 or 2 alternatives installed along side IE to give people the freedom to try other browsers out.

http://www.counterfeitcriminal.co.uk <--- Sons Of Angels Supports the fridge project.... Do you?
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Benjamin
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 15:21
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Uh there IS an edit button ya know

Always have, never will =)
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newbi 2 basic
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 17:51 Edited at: 26th Mar 2004 17:52
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yeah but i cant be bothered

and as any oldbie will tell you

I am pretty much the king of spam

although i seem to have been beaten

http://www.counterfeitcriminal.co.uk <--- Sons Of Angels Supports the fridge project.... Do you?
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Benjamin
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 18:12
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Ahh I see

Always have, never will =)
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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 18:21
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AOL sucks, Netscape also sucks. anyone who uses either of them shouldnt be that big a loss to microsoft (sorry if i offended any netscape/AOL users, but YOU GUYS ARE THE ONES THAT CAUSE LAG IN MY WARCRAFT GAMES!!!!!!!!!!)

http://www.tinnedhead.tk under re-construction.
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newbi 2 basic
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Posted: 26th Mar 2004 19:35 Edited at: 26th Mar 2004 19:37
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lol @ Froogle

Yes AOL does suck but they have a "sheep like" user base....

Meaning that they will follow in any decision that AOL make and stick with them and swear by them


*sigh*

But most people are forced to use a company

I have to use Freeserve...

I would prefer Zen or PlusNET at least then I would have a stable connection and I dont get throwen off every 4 days even though its ment to be "Always On"

http://www.counterfeitcriminal.co.uk <--- Sons Of Angels Supports the fridge project.... Do you?
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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 27th Mar 2004 23:07
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that sucks CFC, sorry you have to deal with that, but AOL and Netscape sucks, I've had to deal with both

You're just jealous cuz the voices don't talk to you!!!
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Code Ninja
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Posted: 28th Mar 2004 00:21
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I agree. Netscape does suck, especially when yer trying to use a first generation pentium, windows 95 and (i think) directX 5 maybe earlyer (the computers in my computer class suck).

PC: Pentium II, 333Mhz, 128 Mb SDRAM, 20 & 4Gb hard drives, 8Mb Videocard, Windows XP, Direct X 9, half-dead CD burner, crappy moniter (15inch), DBC 1.13
~Dragael Software
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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 28th Mar 2004 02:42
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ive never dealt with AOL, and if i get forced to use AOL, i'll buy myself a 1MB satelite connection instead and i still woudlnt have ripped myself off as much

http://www.tinnedhead.tk under re-construction.
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