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Geek Culture / Kill Bill

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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 18th Apr 2004 06:02
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Hey Guys,

I just came back from watching Kill Bill vol 2. I have to say, Vol 2 does justice to the first film. However, vol 2 is more of a tack-on of a story and felt like it was meant to be one long movie with Vol 1. But, nevertheless, it was quite a good cienimatic experience.

What do you guys think?

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Jeku
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Posted: 18th Apr 2004 06:32
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Wow, well I'm glad to hear that. I just saw the first one when it came out in theatres, and I'm due to see Vol. 2 in the next few days. Maybe a matinee tomorrow. Thanks for the recommendation

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Coral Snake
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Posted: 18th Apr 2004 10:27
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It was meant to be one movie orginally.
But the movie would have been 5 hours long, so he made it 2 volumes.

But the first one is very cool, and I can't wait to see the next one.

So don't say anything about it and give it away.
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Dave J
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Posted: 18th Apr 2004 10:30
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I thought the first was quite dumb to be honest, no way am I going to bother watching the second.


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Chris K
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Posted: 18th Apr 2004 12:41
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The first one annoyed me no end.
Resevoir Dogs & Pulp Fiction were amazing, after that QT just went downhill. Steeply.

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 18th Apr 2004 15:08
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Kill Bill Volume 1 is like an introduction for Volume 2. All of the best action is supposed to be in Volume 2.


Kill Bill 1 summary is in code.


You should watch Kill Bill 1 before 2 else the second movie will have the whole storyline missing.

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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 18th Apr 2004 21:37 Edited at: 18th Apr 2004 21:46
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Quote: "All of the best action is supposed to be in Volume 2."


actually...



Quote: "The first one annoyed me no end."


The only thing that annoyed me about Vol 1 was the blood sprays which got really old in the battle with the Crazy 88s.

the only thing I didn't like about Vol 2


btw, I rather would have subtitles in movies then sound dubbing, or people who would normally speak a different launguage speak fluent english...

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Chris K
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Posted: 19th Apr 2004 00:02
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What's wrong with subtitles?
If you can't watch films with subtitles, your missing out on some absolutely amazing films.

I don't really see how Kill Bill was experimental (which I guess means new), it was retro.

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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 19th Apr 2004 00:24
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Quote: "it was retro."


word

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 19th Apr 2004 01:19
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Quote: "I don't really see how Kill Bill was experimental (which I guess means new), it was retro.
"


Well c'mon, there is no other movie like Kill Bill.

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Ian T
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Posted: 19th Apr 2004 20:21
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It was one big King Arthur Fights The Black Knight.

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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 19th Apr 2004 20:58
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lol is that good or bad?

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Tomy
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 21:32 Edited at: 20th Apr 2004 21:32
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If you say Kill Bill is stupid then you didn't understand it! As simple as that
Go watch it again and then think about it!


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Ian T
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 22:03
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Quote: " If you say Kill Bill is stupid then you didn't understand it! As simple as that "


It's stupid. I completely understand it. If QT had bothered to make it serious, it might have been good, but another comical super-violent, vaguely plot-driven martial arts movie is nothing new or intelligent.

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Chris K
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 22:25
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What's not to understand about Kill Bill?

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Tomy
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 22:44
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As I said watch it again and think about it and then you'd maybe recognize that it's not just about stupid violence!
It's actually very similar to Pulp Fiction although it may seem that it's not...
But it critisizes society in the exactly same way as Pulp Fiction does... Really watch it again and you'll maybe see, else you just don't understand it at all...
That's all what i got to say... I will not make any interpretation here, however some things to help you: cynical, confrontation, violence as solution of every problem, provocative, irony etc.
Maybe just think about why the reviews are so good and then you have to believe that it's not about senseless violence...

This isn't meant to be offensive, i just think it's certainly NOT senseless violence, and i take that serious if ppl just say a movie is stupid without any reasoning and without having thought about it...


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 23:39
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Stupid is a strange word for Kill Bill. Mindless violence, well I think that the violence is true to how a woman feels when she is beaten for something that she had no control over. The Kung Fu part is quite well done. Just the cinematography lets it down.

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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 01:28
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I saw the previews and decided not to see it


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Dave J
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 11:19
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Quote: "That's all what i got to say... I will not make any interpretation here, however some things to help you: cynical, confrontation, violence as solution of every problem, provocative, irony etc."


IF that was the point of the movie then QT has displayed serious issues in a not-so serious way, in fact, if he's trying to get that message across the one why's he squirting fake blood all over the place? If you want to show the harsh reality of actions like using violence as an answer then obviously you'd want to go for a realistic looking movie and not something that represents what you'd see in an anime.

Frankly I don't feel it's my duty as a viewer to try and find a hidden meaning behind a movie to credit it as a worthwhile experience. If QT wanted to express his views through the movie then maybe he should have adopted a much more appropriate approach.


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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 18:49
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Quote: "If QT wanted to express his views through the movie then maybe he should have adopted a much more appropriate approach"


I think most of the critics feel that he has already

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Eric T
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 19:01 Edited at: 21st Apr 2004 19:01
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In the first one, so many of you aren't aware, many scenes were edited out (or turned black in white) for the ratings commity said the original was a "NC-17" movie.

It wasn't QT's best, in my opinion Pulp Fiction and Resivior Dogs are his best. I will always remember Pulp Fiction for Samuel L Jackson... that and the "rape scene".

Resivior dogs i shall remeber the cop torturing scene for all my life..."Can you Hear me.." i never laughed so hard in my life.

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Mnemonix
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 19:42
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You people judge film the wrong way

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Tomy
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 21:55
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Hey Kill Bill 1 got extremely good reviews! Why? Certainly not because it's not good My English is way too bad to explain what makes the movie special to me, but maybe look at some reviews and then you'll maybe understand it! Also I think Kill Bill Vol. 1 is not a complete movie and to get the full meaning you will probably have to see all the three! But Kill Bill is in my opinion a very intelligent film (as I said my English is to bad to explain it since i already have troubles explaining it in German)


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Chris K
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 22:21
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OK. Stop now.

Quote: "it critisizes society in the exactly same way as Pulp Fiction does... Really watch it again and you'll maybe see, else you just don't understand it at all..."


Oh dear.

There's a weird misconception that 'good films' have to say something about society.

Kill Bill was praised for being pure entertainment.
It is not a serious film.
From the man himself -

Quote: "Whether you like it or not, violence is a form of entertainment."


It's not "mindless violence" or a "stupid" film. It is clever and complicated but for God's sake - don't try and find comments on society in it. It condemns society for thinking that violence is the solution to all problems? That's why it's a good film?! By that theory Jean Claude van Damme's Kickboxer is also an amazing film. Surely it critises society in exactly the same way as Pulp Fiction does.

Enough of why Kill Bill isn't good, more on why it is bad:

- Literally everything in it was "homaged" from another film. You liked the plot, the characters, hell - most of the dialogue? They were all taken from QT's favourite films.
- It's chronological system is completely non sensical. Every time it flashes back or forwards it's always to confuse the audience, never to explain, never to give deeper understanding (as in City of God)
- The whole thing feels ridiculously fake. No offense, but watching the film in a secong language you probably didn't pick up on how forced the dialogue is. The way people talk to each other is stupid.

P.S. Have fun waiting for the third film

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HZence
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2004 00:08
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ah shutup, everything's just your opinion.















(waits to be flamed)















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Mnemonix
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2004 00:33
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lol :-P. Why bother talking about it. Movie debates always end up like this

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HZence
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2004 01:20
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Indeed. Let's talk about something else. I'll give you a topic...

Rhode Island is neither a road nor an island.

Discuss.


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Ian T
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2004 01:37
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I and many other people are sick of society commentaries. They don't make good movies. They often make stupid ones. Kill Bill was stupid for entirely different reasons. Case cloded

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xtom
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2004 14:31
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Vol.1 is a lot better imo
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flibX0r
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2004 14:38 Edited at: 24th Apr 2004 08:47
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Well, i liked it. I liked the anime / old asian movie influences, and the anime scenes where so smooth and well done. Vol 2 was a lot of story but had some good action parts




Quote: "Rhode Island is neither a road nor an island"


lol. Nice topic

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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2004 19:52
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Quote: "Vol.1 is a lot better imo "

Quote: "Vol 2 was a lot of stop but had some good action parts"


Yeah, kill bill was meant to be One film, but at the end of shooting they ended up with about 5 hours of film. So they just split it up; try to imagine Kill Bill one then watching Kill bill 2

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SubNova
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Posted: 24th Apr 2004 08:39 Edited at: 24th Apr 2004 08:40
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Actually, it originally WAS a long movie. But, you're right. Too much of a tacked-on feeling. But why did Quentin Tarrantino not ONCE name the Bride?

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Apr 2004 14:04
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Yeah her name was bleeped out. There must be a clue in the film somewhere? I haven't seen volume 2 yet, I thought her name would be part of that.

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Scouseknight
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Posted: 24th Apr 2004 14:59
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I watched Kill Bill Volume 1 last night - I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed it - a little different as to what I expected - although I am not sure exactly what I was expecting!



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Dave J
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Posted: 24th Apr 2004 15:14
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Not sure if this is a spoiler or anything but to be safe anyway I'll put it in a codebox, according to IMDB her name is:



o_O


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flibX0r
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Posted: 24th Apr 2004 16:52 Edited at: 24th Apr 2004 16:53
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yeah, thats her name in da code snippet box. Its said a couple of times in the second movie. Didn't anyone else pay attention?

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Restart
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Posted: 24th Apr 2004 17:22
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Well I am watching Both Volumes one after the other, so I can't say much about it right now...

From what I have read you have wrong opinions, as the movie is not supposed to portray the world. It is just QTs views on the Asian Entertainment Industry, which is supposebly poor anyway...
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 24th Apr 2004 17:45
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I just saw kill bill 1 last night on dvd. It seems a pretty cool story and if anyone thinks that the blood and gore was supposed to be anything other than purposely over-the-top, poking fun at comics, ma films, anime etc then they are completely missing the point. This movie is a spoof which hovers between comedy and action drama the entire time - of course mixed in with QT's shock value cinema. Like you root for 'The Bride' the whole time because she is the heroine, the star, that nothing fatally bad will ever happen to, but how messed up was it when you found out that that orderly in the hospital was letting scum-bums come in and have sex with her while she was in a coma - thats QT. Or how much did you love John Travolta's char in Pulp Fiction, and he gets unceremoniously gunned down by the boxer - that's QT. Shock cinema thru and thru.


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Toby Quan
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Posted: 2nd May 2004 01:03
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Whew ... I just saw Kill Bill 2 yesterday. I loved the eyeball scene as well. Man - what a way to go!

I really would have like to see more revenge scenes. I wanted to see the Bride get revenge on the guy who buries her alive. But it was kind of cool how she didn't kill El Driver - she just let her live in TOTAL AGONY...

I thought the ending scene with Bill was like too much cutting the crusts off of sandwitches and not enough sword fighting. The last battle was 20 seconds long!

All in all, they were truly good pieces of cinema. I have the soundtrack for Vol 1, and I love it.
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Tomy
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Posted: 2nd May 2004 17:52 Edited at: 3rd May 2004 01:53
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Quote: "Jean Claude van Damme's Kickboxer is also an amazing film. Surely it critises society in exactly the same way as Pulp Fiction does."

That just shows that you didn't understand anything
Ok i make an attempt to explain you!
Pulp Fiction is critizise on society! If you don't see that then I regrett but don't blame me for your dumbness! It's obvious! Just some examples:
-Samuel L Jackson as very pious killer who always quotes the bible when he kills someone! DON'T YOU SEE THE CYNICISM IN THERE????? if you don't then why am i wasting my time?
-SL Jackson and John Travolta talking about hamburgers in French while they have actually other problems...
again cynicism
Now Kill Bill is a little more difficult not that easy to see for a stuper
Just an example, which should show you my opinion and there are plenty of similar scenes!

-While those guys from the deadly viper assosiation are beating the bride suddenly the mobile phone of those stupid woman (don't remember here name anymore) rings... and she answers like she was in her office..
-> cynicism

now why is this funny? Because it's CYNICAL! CYNICAL MEANS CRITISIZE IN A FUNNY, HIDDEN, BUT VERY HARSH WAY! That's why you laugh about it although it's actually bloody serious! There are many authors who use that style to critisize society! You should maybe read a few of those books!

And Jean Claude Van Damme has no film in which society is critisized, maybe you'll see that sometimes!

And no, a film doesn't have to critisize society in order to be good, but it can be good when it's critisize on society!
Once upon a time in the west isn't critisize on society but it's GREAT!

BTW you may be shocked if i tell you Simpsons is critisize on society! BUT IT IS!


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Tomy
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Posted: 2nd May 2004 18:00 Edited at: 2nd May 2004 18:12
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Oh yeh and it's not only good because it's critisizing!

Good points:
-soundtrack
-cool cuts
-very cool dialogues
-amazing black/white scenes (he didn't make that for fun, you know, but i'll not explain you agian as you won't understand anyway)

Oh yes and another thing:

You know La Vita è Bella (English title Life is beautiful)??
It's about jews in WW2... It's a funny movie although it's a very serious theme! But it doesn't make the film bad! Actually the funny aspect make it even more dramatic at the end.
So all of you who said a film about a serious problem must be serious should think about what they said...


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Chris K
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Posted: 2nd May 2004 22:22
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Know one is saying that Kill Bill is bad because it has a serious message in a light-hearted film. It doesn't have a serious message.

About the black & white scenes (quote from QT):

Quote: ""The black & white photography is an homage to '70's and '80s US television airings of kung fu movies. Black & white, and also black & red, were used to "hide" the shedding of blood from television censors.""


Not a whole lot of art or genius in that. Just another homage.

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Tomy
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 01:43 Edited at: 3rd May 2004 01:45
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Quote: "Know one is saying that Kill Bill is bad because it has a serious message in a light-hearted film. It doesn't have a serious message.
"


Sure there is! What about this guy?

Quote: "IF that was the point of the movie then QT has displayed serious issues in a not-so serious way, in fact, if he's trying to get that message across the one why's he squirting fake blood all over the place?"


And hey i also mentioned CONFRONTATION and that's what KB is all about... by critisize i only meant those cynical scenes (and now don't say that they're not cynical)


To black and white scenes:

i just said the Black & White scenes have some background and are not need another deep interpretation
I mean because it's a homage, it doesn't mean that he randomly picked a scene that he made black & White... He intentionally used those cruel scenes... In my opinion this is art and i don't care what you think of it but in my opinion those scenes are fantastic, because you really get in some trance where you don't even really recognize the violence, and from my point of view that's NOT just entertainment, that's extremely intentional confrontation with yourself and how you react to violence.. At least i was quite surprised when i didn't really cared about all those violence, when i didn't even really recognized it...

Ok I may have a bit overreacted, but i really didn't want to offence anyone... i think we should just leave it by agreeing that we have different opinions Otherwise we will end up in a flame war like Raven and Neophyte


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Tomy
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 01:50 Edited at: 3rd May 2004 01:56
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oh i just saw something...
Quote: "- It's chronological system is completely non sensical. Every time it flashes back or forwards it's always to confuse the audience, never to explain, never to give deeper understanding (as in City of God)
"


i don't want to argue with you anymore but can you explain me why this is bad?
Pulp Fiction is also non-chronological, but it's still great...
if Pulp Fiction was chronological it would be stupid and boring, but this non-chronological construction makes it great..


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las6
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 11:10
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simply put, it sucked.
the movie has nothing to do with cynicism or critizing society. That's way above QT's level.
most of the time that's just an excuse to try to make bad movie even slightly better. It just doesn't work that way.

The good things in Kill Bill (vol 1 & 2) were:
- the use of b&w... much better visuals...and the fake blood looked a lot better that way. Besides, the battle scene was boring so it needed something.
- The ending. It had happy ending. And the fact that the final battle didn't last for long.
- Some of the music. I think Vol 1 had one good battle music track. Out of the Soundtrack, about 2 tracks were good.

that's about it.
The rest was utter crap that I don't want to see ever again.


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Dave J
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 11:22 Edited at: 3rd May 2004 11:24
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Quote: "Sure there is! What about this guy?"


I think you misinterpreted my sentence. I wasn't calling the movie bad because it has serious issues, I was calling QT a fool for not knowing how to express serious issues effectively.


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Tomy
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Posted: 3rd May 2004 12:05 Edited at: 4th May 2004 01:03
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@las6: Hey if you think so, fine!!! But don't try to put your idea into other ppl! Use some words like "think" or "in my opinion" and then it's good, otherwise you're just an idiot who has difficulty in accepting other ppl's opinion!
At least Kill Bill 1 and 2 got extremely good reviews and, PERSONALLY (you see just my opinion ), i think they know more of movies than you do!

IN MY OPINION, Kill Bill vol. 1 and 2 is a masterpiece and YES there are cynical scenes in Kill Bill, if you want it or not. They may not be important, but there are cynical scenes

Oh BTW:

Quote: "That's way above QT's level."


What about Pulp Fiction? This is certainly one of the most intelligent films ever made!

@Exeat: Sorry


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